emu methuselahconfocaloid wrote: ↑May 20th, 2022, 11:01 pmA gliderless methuselah is a relatively long-living pattern that does not emit any escaping gliders.
Thread for basic questions
Re: Thread for basic questions
Phil Bookman
Re: Thread for basic questions
It's right in the name: methuselahs = slash the emu!Book wrote: ↑May 23rd, 2022, 12:20 pmemu methuselahconfocaloid wrote: ↑May 20th, 2022, 11:01 pmA gliderless methuselah is a relatively long-living pattern that does not emit any escaping gliders.
Re: Thread for basic questions
What is the point of inflation as defined in the wiki article of that name? I ask because the article begs for such an explanation.
Phil Bookman
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Re: Thread for basic questions
Is it unclear what "inflation" means, as defined there? I think the first sentence defines it.
It could be useful to add an explanation how to interpret Catagolue soups for pseudosymmetries like iD2_+1 or iiii8x32. For asymmetric soups (iC1, iiC1, iiiC1, ...) I can take the soup from Catagolue and scale it by a factor of 2^k if there are k i's. For other pseudosymmetries I do not know how to get the original soup from the soup returned by Catagolue.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Re: Thread for basic questions
The issue is not the meaning of inflation. The issue is why do it at all? Certainly not just because you can. So what is the value of inflating a pattern?confocaloid wrote: ↑May 28th, 2022, 12:50 amIs it unclear what "inflation" means, as defined there? I think the first sentence defines it.
It could be useful to add an explanation how to interpret Catagolue soups for pseudosymmetries like iD2_+1 or iiii8x32. For asymmetric soups (iC1, iiC1, iiiC1, ...) I can take the soup from Catagolue and scale it by a factor of 2^k if there are k i's. For other pseudosymmetries I do not know how to get the original soup from the soup returned by Catagolue.
Phil Bookman
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Re: Thread for basic questions
Well, the same question can be asked about many things that the community apparently finds worthwhile to do. I guess that depends on who you're asking.
For what it's worth (probably not much), I think it's exactly just because you can. For one thing, inflation is a well-defined operator (which in itself is sufficiently rare if you think about it), and moreover it can be repeated multiple times. Then one can (just to give an example) run parallel censuses in C1 and iC1 (and iiC1, ..) and compare frequencies of occurring objects.
If you are asking about some other "value" - perhaps about some "value for the community" - then probably I cannot answer that question, simply because I do not think I have any right whatsoever to say "we" and speak from the community. I'm a mere hobbyist who happens to be interested in cellular automata.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
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Re: OCA DOTY 2020 Vote Tally Live
Why is it OCA DOTY and not OCA POTY?
My rules:
B34q/S23-k(ObliquePufferLife) and
B2n3-n4c5c/S234cz5cPM me to get some help on making rules!
B34q/S23-k(ObliquePufferLife) and
B2n3-n4c5c/S234cz5cPM me to get some help on making rules!
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 5, rule = B3-k/S23
2o3b2o$obo2bobo$2bo2bo$bo$b2o!
Re: OCA DOTY 2020 Vote Tally Live
Because entire rules are often submitted as a single entry.
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Re: Thread for basic questions
If you enlarge the tub by a factor of 3 and evolve the resulting 36-cell pattern for six ticks, you will get the tub back.
Is there a (nonempty) pattern which has the 2x-scaled copy of itself as a predecessor?
Edit: here is a 34-tick solution:
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
3b3o$3b3o$3b3o$3o3b3o$3o3b3o$3o3b3o$3b3o$3b3o$3b3o!
#C [[ GRID STOP 6 ]]
Edit: here is a 34-tick solution:
Code: Select all
x = 6, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
4o$4o$2o2b2o$2o2b2o!
#C [[ GRID STOP 34 ]]
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Is there a known lower bound on the possible asymptotic growth rate for the population of a pattern in CGoL wrt number of steps? For example could there exist a pattern whose growth rate is slower than log^(i)(t) for all i, where log^(i) denotes log composed with itself i times?
Re: Thread for basic questions
If a pattern grows without bound, then at generation T its history (cells that ever have been on) has a diameter (minimum d such that it fits in a d by d box) of Omega(sqrt(log(t))).volcanrb wrote: ↑June 1st, 2022, 1:04 amIs there a known lower bound on the possible asymptotic growth rate for the population of a pattern in CGoL wrt number of steps? For example could there exist a pattern whose growth rate is slower than log^(i)(t) for all i, where log^(i) denotes log composed with itself i times?
\sum_{n=1}^\infty H_n/n^2 = \zeta(3)
How much of current CA technology can I redevelop "on a desert island"?
How much of current CA technology can I redevelop "on a desert island"?
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Re: Thread for basic questions
Uh what does the numbers in a tree rule mean?
—Hector Hu, who loves anything except the norm.
(full nickname: Versallies Poleon Terloo Nuclear London Dog)
(full nickname: Versallies Poleon Terloo Nuclear London Dog)
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Re: Thread for basic questions
See recursive filter and exponential filter.volcanrb wrote: ↑June 1st, 2022, 1:04 amIs there a known lower bound on the possible asymptotic growth rate for the population of a pattern in CGoL wrt number of steps? For example could there exist a pattern whose growth rate is slower than log^(i)(t) for all i, where log^(i) denotes log composed with itself i times?
---
Why does the term "first natural block" refer to the first block dropped by Herschel instead of one laid by B-heptomino? The latter appears at T=43 of the R-pentomino (or T=15 for B-heptomino) when Herschel is yet to form.
熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Well... it's for the same reason that "first natural glider" refers to the first glider emitted by a Herschel, not the first glider ever seen. Herschels were the reference object for the universal signal circuitry that was under development in the mid-1990s, when both of these terms were invented. Or at least when the "first natural glider" term was invented -- I'm not sure anybody ever actually said "first natural block" until the next millennium sometime.
I think that the wiki's current statement that "named for being the first naturally occurring glider that was observed in the early days of Life research (by Conway's group when tracking the evolution of the R-pentomino)" is not really true -- or maybe it's sort-of-true but misleading. "First natural glider" was never intended to mean The First Ever Natural Glider though it does happen to be that.
I can't even find any uses of "first natural glider" before some email messages in 2003 where I mentioned them several times. That doesn't mean I invented the term, though: Stephen Silver posted (via email to LifeCA) a list of Herschel-to-glider converters in 1998, and labeled two of them...
"1st natural glider"
and
"2nd natural glider".
And those two strings with "1st" and "2nd" seem never to have gotten used again! But the abbreviation "FNG" didn't come along until much later; I seem to remember not liking it much when it first showed up.
Anyway, the "first natural glider" was so named specifically to distinguish it from the "second natural glider", and specifically in the context of Herschels. Same with "first natural block", though really that term has never gotten much of any actual use -- I've only ever seen the abbreviation "FNB" a couple of times, for example, here on the forums.
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Re: Thread for basic questions
These have been tabulated in beacon variants. I am going to change the original articles to redirects to that page because I think they are not notable.dvgrn wrote: ↑March 18th, 2021, 11:49 am...
20P2 has 21 cells.
21P2 has 16 cells.
22P2 has 20 cells.
23P2 has 17 cells.
24P2 has 18 cells.
25P2 has 18 cells.
26P2 has 20 cells.
None of these objects seem to have those names in Achim Flammenkamp's census, or in Mark Niemiec's database, or on pentadecathlon.com, or in the Life Lexicon, or in any old email discussions that I can find.
I'd say this is an old non-standard naming convention left over from when the LifeWiki was first being created over a decade ago, and it's somehow persisted all this time without anyone noticing that they weren't real names. Let's switch over to naming those objects by apgcode, ASAP, and remove the redirects from "{n}P2".
熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Re: Thread for basic questions
I support the change. I don't want to lose any information, though, such as why the common ones are more common. (I added a paragraph, but it could be expanded with more information on each one where it applies.)
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries
Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576
S: SKOP
G: gun
Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576
S: SKOP
G: gun
Re: Thread for basic questions
I had always thought that these originally came from Achim's census - just arbitrary name assigned sequentially to various frequently-occurring P2s. I agree that the names are obsolescent, and should be deprecated.dvgrn wrote: ↑March 18th, 2021, 11:49 am...
20P2 has 21 cells.
21P2 has 16 cells.
22P2 has 20 cells.
23P2 has 17 cells.
24P2 has 18 cells.
25P2 has 18 cells.
26P2 has 20 cells.
None of these objects seem to have those names in Achim Flammenkamp's census, or in Mark Niemiec's database, or on pentadecathlon.com, or in the Life Lexicon, or in any old email discussions that I can find.
I'd say this is an old non-standard naming convention left over from when the LifeWiki was first being created over a decade ago, and it's somehow persisted all this time without anyone noticing that they weren't real names. Let's switch over to naming those objects by apgcode, ASAP, and remove the redirects from "{n}P2".
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Re: Thread for basic questions
I have added them to the Notes section. Now please check the commonness data...
Two related questions:
1) For position among natural period-2 oscillators on Catagolue, I checked the b3s23/C1/xp2 census. Can someone check the position among natural oscillators or natural objects?
2) For position on Achim's census, how did they check those below 50 in 2009? This page only lists the top 50 or so.
熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Here is the full list.
- ihatecorderships
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Re: Thread for basic questions
What is the difference between a Garden of Eden and a orphan?
Different question: Why does Kazyan not have a green name? I have read in a few places that they have the powers of a moderator.
Different question: Why does Kazyan not have a green name? I have read in a few places that they have the powers of a moderator.
-- Kalan Warusa
Don't drink and drive, think and derive.
Don't drink and drive, think and derive.
Re: Thread for basic questions
If I understand correctly, an orphan is the set of cells required to be either on or off for a pattern to have the property of being a Garden of Eden, and it can therefore be extended in any way past that and still be a GoE.ihatecorderships wrote: ↑June 7th, 2022, 1:35 pmWhat is the difference between a Garden of Eden and a orphan?
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Re: Thread for basic questions
Take the infamously large methuselah 40514M, and shift one or two of the five subpatterns by any offset in the range (±10, ±10) with respect to its/their original position. Do all of the resulting patterns that do not exhibit infinite growth settle within a lifespan below 40514 ticks?
熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Harvest Moon
2-engine p45 gliderless HWSS gun
Small p2070 glider gun
Forgive me if I withhold my enthusiasm.
Re: Thread for basic questions
There are 1.06×10^14 soups in C1 so far.GUYTU6J wrote: ↑June 9th, 2022, 10:58 amTake the infamously large methuselah 40514M, and shift one or two of the five subpatterns by any offset in the range (±10, ±10) with respect to its/their original position. Do all of the resulting patterns that do not exhibit infinite growth settle within a lifespan below 40514 ticks?
There are about 130 methuselahs that last at least 40514 ticks in C1.
This is a ratio of about 8×10^11.
Moving any object within ±10/±10 is a 21×21 box, ×2 because blinkers can be in either phase. (21×21×2)^2 * (5 choose 2) ≈ 7.8×10^6.
It's likely that it's the longest if a maximum of two (or even three) can be shifted, but if you shift four or five, there's likely to be one that lasts longer.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries
Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576
S: SKOP
G: gun
Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576
S: SKOP
G: gun
- dl-rs
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Re: Thread for basic questions
I'm uh unable to download the pdf from Book, read it online, buy it or open Lulu.com. Does anyone have a PDF?
—Hector Hu, who loves anything except the norm.
(full nickname: Versallies Poleon Terloo Nuclear London Dog)
(full nickname: Versallies Poleon Terloo Nuclear London Dog)