Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 3rd, 2022, 9:21 am

pzq_alex wrote:
July 3rd, 2022, 4:57 am
I think it’s possible, but you’d need a mechanism to delay an arbitrarily long time before re-igniting the fuse.
You'll get that pretty much automatically, as the recipe coming from the back gradually rebuilds a copy of the universal constructor's memory storage unit, and then repopulates it from a data stream coming from the parent copy, which self-destructs as usual once the data is sent.

Seems like it's perfectly workable, and it's a simpler design in some ways than the Speed Demonoid and Speed Orthogonoid, because the crabstretcher or blinker puffer never have to be destroyed and rebuilt. On the other hand, the new mechanism will have to be some kind of loopship (right?) unless it uses stable memory storage like the design that we managed to avoid in the RCT. We have Goldtiger997's examples of fast spaceships that build memory loops big enough to hold their own construction recipes, so we know roughly how big something like this would be.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by ihatecorderships » July 5th, 2022, 3:27 pm

What are slow^2 salvos? I can't find an explanation on the forums or the wiki.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 5th, 2022, 3:43 pm

ihatecorderships wrote:
July 5th, 2022, 3:27 pm
What are slow^2 salvos? I can't find an explanation on the forums or the wiki.
It came up on Discord recently. Slow^1 gliders are just plain slow-salvo gliders, as defined in the "Salvo" LifeWiki article.
dvgrn wrote:slow^2 gliders have to be encoded in the form of slow^1 gliders hitting some kind of elbow block, so they're roughly an order of magnitude more expensive.

You can perfectly well reach around two corners and fire slow^3 gliders at something, but it will cost ~100 times as much as slow^1 gliders do (in terms of bits coming off the RCT mechanism.)

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by pzq_alex » July 6th, 2022, 5:30 am

When we say “… was found on the same day as …”, in which timezone should this be interpreted?
\sum_{n=1}^\infty H_n/n^2 = \zeta(3)

How much of current CA technology can I redevelop "on a desert island"?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 6th, 2022, 5:53 am

pzq_alex wrote:
July 6th, 2022, 5:30 am
When we say “… was found on the same day as …”, in which timezone should this be interpreted?
I probably write things like that fairly often, for LifeWiki articles and CurrentNews and such. Therefore it should probably be interpreted... well... very loosely, to mean for the most part "within twenty-four hours". Any attempt to pick a specific reference timezone will probably turn up occasional inconsistencies and generally cause unnecessary headaches.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » July 6th, 2022, 6:16 am

I typically use UTC despite living in the US. The one time it was a few minutes apart but crossed the UTC boundary, I said "seven minutes later" instead.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dl-rs » July 6th, 2022, 8:22 pm

I have a half-serious-half-jokewise question so you don't really need to take it seriously:
should this be a Garden of Eden?

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
o!
Uh...
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Majestas32 » July 6th, 2022, 8:30 pm

Even if all of its predecessors contain itself, it is not a Garden of Eden as not all predecessors include the dot in the same position as in the final result.

Example:

Code: Select all

2o2$2bo!
Searching:
b2-a5k6n7cs12-i3ij4k5j8
b2-a3c7cs12-i

Currently looking for help searching these rules.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 6th, 2022, 11:48 pm

Majestas32 wrote:
July 6th, 2022, 8:30 pm
Even if all of its predecessors contain itself, it is not a Garden of Eden as not all predecessors include the dot in the same position as in the final result.
Seems to me that if a pattern has predecessors, it’s not a Garden of Eden no matter what survives or doesn’t survive. The moment you notice there are predecessors, any other properties are pretty much irrelevant.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dl-rs » July 7th, 2022, 9:46 pm

Majestas32 wrote:
July 6th, 2022, 8:30 pm
Even if all of its predecessors contain itself, it is not a Garden of Eden as not all predecessors include the dot in the same position as in the final result.

Example:

Code: Select all

2o2$2bo!
Yeah but I mean the bounding box is also one times one
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 7th, 2022, 10:08 pm

dl-rs wrote:
July 7th, 2022, 9:46 pm
Yeah but I mean the bounding box is also one times one
Yup, in a 1x1 bounded universe or a 1x1 torus, an ON cell is a Garden of Eden but an OFF cell is not.

Seems like that pretty much concludes the things that one can say about patterns in 1x1 universes.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Book » July 10th, 2022, 7:13 pm

What distinguishes a "functional dot sparker" from a "dot sparker" (as used in several wiki articles)?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » July 10th, 2022, 8:44 pm

Book wrote:
July 10th, 2022, 7:13 pm
What distinguishes a "functional dot sparker" from a "dot sparker" (as used in several wiki articles)?
For example, vertical dominoes aren't dots, but they usually act as one, being just a single cell on the leading edge. The same is true for thumb sparkers.

Note that "functional dot sparker" is my own terminology.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » July 11th, 2022, 12:09 pm

What is the state-of-the-art in incremental glider syntheses satisfying the additional constraint that at most one glider per direction is allowed at each stage?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 11th, 2022, 12:57 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 11th, 2022, 12:09 pm
What is the state-of-the-art in incremental glider syntheses satisfying the additional constraint that at most one glider per direction is allowed at each stage?
Ooh, good question. I'd say there isn't any state of the art, because nobody has ever built any significant quantity of these "omnidirectional slow salvos".

... I think there's one question you'd have to answer before you could even get started, though: you kind of need a target to start things off with, or it's kind of tricky to build anything at all. So is your initial target always a block? Or would you start with two gliders coming from opposite directions?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » July 11th, 2022, 1:24 pm

dvgrn wrote:
July 11th, 2022, 12:57 pm
... I think there's one question you'd have to answer before you could even get started, though: you kind of need a target to start things off with, or it's kind of tricky to build anything at all. So is your initial target always a block? Or would you start with two gliders coming from opposite directions?
I think the target can be anything that can be the result of the first stage - in other words, anything that can be constructed with 2, 3 or 4 gliders, subject to the restriction that no two gliders come from the same direction.

Edit: for example, xs14_4a53g8ozx121 can be constructed in this way (with two stages, each stage using three gliders coming from three different directions).

Code: Select all

x = 44, y = 58, rule = LifeHistory
.A$2BA$3AB$.4B$2.4B$3.4B32.ABA$4.4B30.B2AB$5.4B28.3BA$6.4B26.4B$7.4B
24.4B$8.4B22.4B$9.4B20.4B$10.4B18.4B$11.4B16.4B$12.4B14.4B$13.4B12.4B
$14.4B10.4B$15.4B8.4B$16.4B6.4B$17.4B4.4B$15.A6B2.4B$14.2BA10B$14.3A
9B$12.13B$12.12B$12.7BABA2B$12.7B2A3B$13.7BA5B$13.14B$14.13B$14.12B$
14.12B$14.11B$13.11B$13.11B$12.12B$12.12B$12.5BD7B$13.3BDBD7B$13.4BDB
DB2.4B$13.BD3B2D2B2.4B$13.DBD5B2A2.4B$14.DBDB2.BABA2.4B$15.2D4.AB4.4B
$28.4B$29.4B$30.4B$31.4B$32.4B$33.4B$34.4B$35.4B$36.4B$37.4B$38.4B$
39.2B2A$40.BABA$41.AB!
(Edit 2: for the record, here is the current synthesis from Catagolue, which is unsatisfactory because each stage has two gliders coming from the same direction:)

Code: Select all

#C [[ GRID MAXGRIDSIZE 14 THEME Catagolue ]]
#CSYNTH xs14_4a53g8ozx121 costs 6 gliders (pseudo).
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 52, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6bo$6b3o3$39bobo$40b2o$40bo5bo$bo44bobo$2bo43b2o$3o40bo$44bo$
42b3o$3bo$3bobo44bo$3b2o44bobo$48bobo$48b2o! 
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 11th, 2022, 3:17 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 11th, 2022, 1:24 pm
I think the target can be anything that can be the result of the first stage - in other words, anything that can be constructed with 2, 3 or 4 gliders, subject to the restriction that no two gliders come from the same direction.
Ah, sorry, I had the picture a little bit wrong, from not reading close enough. I was thinking of the equally unexplored space of constructions where you start with something as a target, and then you can fire gliders at it one at a time, but from any direction.

I think the "up to four synchronized gliders from up to four directions" search space has come up briefly in discussions, a few years ago. I forget the context, and I don't think that any actual searches were done. A construction system that could use this kind of recipe would be something like a set of four construction arms all pointing toward a central construction area... maybe with four big synchronized glider loops, one running each construction arm?

You could build small things fairly efficiently with a setup like that, including a lot of things that need two gliders from one direction and one from another (because you can set up kickbacks). Larger objects, not so much -- the intermediate targets start casting shadows, so to speak.

Just having the option to collide two gliders at 90 degrees (like the original Gemini's construction method) makes for a huge efficiency improvement over plain slow salvos. For most purposes it's not terribly tempting to double the complexity from Gemini levels and have four UCs that have to be kept synchronized.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Book » July 12th, 2022, 6:43 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:
May 17th, 2022, 2:53 pm
The pattern was also an entry for POTY 2017, if I remember correctly.
If so, I'm not finding it.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » July 12th, 2022, 7:40 pm

Is "cursed" a well-defined function of a pattern, and if yes, what is its domain and how it is computed?
iNoMed wrote:
February 6th, 2022, 8:30 am
Here's a legitimately-cursed p30 stabilisation for Diuresis using a delayed-restoration eater3-style catalysis with the assistance of a handful of queen-bee shuttles:

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
19b2o15b2o$19bo17bo$8bobo6bobo17bobo6bobo$6bo3bo6b2o19b2o6bo3bo$6bo43b
o$5bo4bo35bo4bo$6bo43bo$6bo3bo7bo19bo7bo3bo$8bobo6bobo17bobo6bobo$16bo
2bo17bo2bo$17b2o19b2o$3bo49bo$b2ob2o45b2ob2o2$o5bo43bo5bo2$2obob2o16b
3o5b3o16b2obob2o$23bobo5bobo$22bo2bo5bo2bo$22b2o9b2o2$17b2o19b2o$16bo
2bo17bo2bo$9bobo5bobo17bobo5bobo$9bo3bo4bo19bo4bo3bo$13bo29bo$9bo4bo
27bo4bo$13bo29bo$9bo3bo3b2o19b2o3bo3bo$9bobo5bobo17bobo5bobo$19bo17bo$
19b2o15b2o!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Book » July 12th, 2022, 7:46 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 12th, 2022, 7:40 pm
Is "cursed" a well-defined function of a pattern, and if yes, what is its domain and how it is computed?
iNoMed wrote:
February 6th, 2022, 8:30 am
Here's a legitimately-cursed p30 stabilisation for Diuresis using a delayed-restoration eater3-style catalysis with the assistance of a handful of queen-bee shuttles:

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
19b2o15b2o$19bo17bo$8bobo6bobo17bobo6bobo$6bo3bo6b2o19b2o6bo3bo$6bo43b
o$5bo4bo35bo4bo$6bo43bo$6bo3bo7bo19bo7bo3bo$8bobo6bobo17bobo6bobo$16bo
2bo17bo2bo$17b2o19b2o$3bo49bo$b2ob2o45b2ob2o2$o5bo43bo5bo2$2obob2o16b
3o5b3o16b2obob2o$23bobo5bobo$22bo2bo5bo2bo$22b2o9b2o2$17b2o19b2o$16bo
2bo17bo2bo$9bobo5bobo17bobo5bobo$9bo3bo4bo19bo4bo3bo$13bo29bo$9bo4bo
27bo4bo$13bo29bo$9bo3bo3b2o19b2o3bo3bo$9bobo5bobo17bobo5bobo$19bo17bo$
19b2o15b2o!
What exactly does it mean?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » July 12th, 2022, 8:31 pm

It seems to be more of a meme thing than an actual term. It has no formal definition.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by HotWheels9232 » July 14th, 2022, 10:29 pm

How do you name a conduit?
My rules:
B34q/S23-k(ObliquePufferLife) and
B2n3-n4c5c/S234cz5cPM me to get some help on making rules!

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 5, rule = B3-k/S23
2o3b2o$obo2bobo$2bo2bo$bo$b2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 15th, 2022, 9:42 am

HotWheels9232 wrote:
July 14th, 2022, 10:29 pm
How do you name a conduit?
See Section 7.1 (for Herschel conduits) and 7.7 (for elementary conduits in general) in the Life textbook.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by HotWheels9232 » July 15th, 2022, 11:18 am

dvgrn wrote:
July 15th, 2022, 9:42 am
HotWheels9232 wrote:
July 14th, 2022, 10:29 pm
How do you name a conduit?
See Section 7.1 (for Herschel conduits) and 7.7 (for elementary conduits in general) in the Life textbook.
But there are only pattern files.
My rules:
B34q/S23-k(ObliquePufferLife) and
B2n3-n4c5c/S234cz5cPM me to get some help on making rules!

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 5, rule = B3-k/S23
2o3b2o$obo2bobo$2bo2bo$bo$b2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 15th, 2022, 11:34 am

HotWheels9232 wrote:
July 15th, 2022, 11:18 am
dvgrn wrote:
July 15th, 2022, 9:42 am
HotWheels9232 wrote:
July 14th, 2022, 10:29 pm
How do you name a conduit?
See Section 7.1 (for Herschel conduits) and 7.7 (for elementary conduits in general) in the Life textbook.
But there are only pattern files.
Open the PDF rather than following the pattern file links. Sections 7.1 and 7.7 of Chapter 7 of the textbook go through the details of generating systematic names for conduits.

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