Thread for basic questions

[GUYTU6J]

Glimmering Garden is inhabited by abundant p240 oscillators, one of which may be hassled by another to have the period doubled to 480. However, after stacking them repeatedly...

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7c
!
#C [[ PASTEDELTA 30 9 PASTET EVERY 170 PASTE 
b3o7bo$o2bo$ob3o$o10bo$bo19$34b2o$35b2o$31b3obo$31bob2o$31b2ob2o$35bo$33b3o! -4080 0 ]]

... the resulting pattern will act erratically. I have spent a long time trying to figure out the behaviour but to no avail. So questions:
1)What is the period of the pattern containing N subpatterns?
2)Is there possibly some formula to calculate the position of the N-th subpattern at some time 480*T?

[mniemiec]

Glimmering Garden is inhabited by abundant p240 oscillators, one of which may be hassled by another to have the period doubled to 480. However, after stacking them repeatedly... ... the resulting pattern will act erratically. I have spent a long time trying to figure out the behaviour but to no avail. So questions:
1)What is the period of the pattern containing N subpatterns?
2)Is there possibly some formula to calculate the position of the N-th subpattern at some time 480*T?

Unfortunately, since you're using Lifeviewer code to repeatedly paste the oscillator into the field, it's impossible to bypass Lifeviewer's slow speed and field size limitations by using Golly to get a larger picture.

[dvgrn]

Unfortunately, since you're using Lifeviewer code to repeatedly paste the oscillator into the field, it's impossible to bypass Lifeviewer's slow speed and field size limitations by using Golly to get a larger picture.

There's a quick fix for that. Here's an equivalent Golly script. Just hit Escape when the line has gotten long enough, and try bumping up the step size.

For example, up until about T=375,000 the pattern seems to be that the left end of the line is wavier, and the right side smoother. But then by T=400,000 there's a large and growing section of the left end that's smoother again -- at least from a distance, not to say that the oscillators really end up in a straight line.

Code: Select all

import golly as g

g.setrule("B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7c")
g.setalgo("HashLife")
g.new("Glimmering Garden Chaoscillators")
x, y = 0, 0
while 1:
  g.putcells(g.parse("b3o7bo$o2bo$ob3o$o10bo$bo19$34b2o$35b2o$31b3obo$31bob2o$31b2ob2o$35bo$33b3o!"),x,y)
  g.run(170)
  x += 30
  y += 9
  if x % 3000 == 0:
    g.fit()
    g.update()

Then some interesting things start happening at the far left end after several million ticks. But it all looks impressively chaotic. There might not be any way of calculating where those oscillators will end up, that's much more efficient than just running the pattern and finding out.

[GUYTU6J]

Unfortunately, since you're using Lifeviewer code to repeatedly paste the oscillator into the field, it's impossible to bypass Lifeviewer's slow speed and field size limitations by using Golly to get a larger picture.

Alternatively, ctrl+C to copy from the LifeViewer after a while and paste into Golly.

... But it all looks impressively chaotic. There might not be any way of calculating where those oscillators will end up, that's much more efficient than just running the pattern and finding out.

Well, how about the first question? I wanted to generate an oscillizer-like diagram showing different periods for each subpattern. Here is an attempt in Super algorithm:

Code: Select all

x = 1235, y = 395, rule = B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7cSuper
201.A$201.2A$199.2A.2A$201.2A$197.A2$202.A.3A$201.3A2.A$200.2A2.3A$
201.A.2A37.3A$203.2A37.A.A$241.A2.A$241.2A3.A$13.3A226.A.3A$12.A2.A
229.A$12.4A.2A144.A3.2A$16.4A142.3A.A$16.2A.2A141.A2.2A.A68.A$20.2A
142.2A2.A68.A7.A$19.A.A142.A.A14.3A63.A$18.A.2A142.3A13.A2.A63.A$17.A
162.4A.2A59.2A$13.2A.A167.4A57.2A$14.3A167.2A.2A54.A.2A$15.A172.2A53.
3A$187.A.A54.A$186.A.2A$185.A$181.2A.A$182.3A$183.A3$.M49.I$3M.3M$M2.
2M.M46.I$2.2M2.M40.I5.I$2.M.M41.3I3.I.2I$2.3M43.2I2.3I$45.2I.I4.I$45.
3I.I$47.I.I49.K$47.3I48.3K$98.K.2K$97.K$95.2K$94.3K$95.K.K$96.2K4$76.
2I4$82.2I$81.2I.2I$70.2I13.I$69.2I10.I.3I$70.3I3.I3.2I$71.3I7.2I$73.
3I3$131.3K$131.K.K$131.K.3K$127.K4.K.2K$126.3K3.4K$125.2K.K2.K$127.4K
$127.2K2.2K.K$129.K.K.2K$131.2K39$326.3I$325.I3.I$327.I.I$327.3I$327.
I2$294.I$293.3I2.3I$293.I.I4.I$292.I.I.I2.2I$293.I2.I.I42.3K$291.I4.
3I27.I2.I11.K.K$289.I.I.2I44.K2.2K$290.2I.2I44.K.2K2.K$289.2I.I46.3K.
3K$290.3I51.K$291.I2$384.K25.3A$383.3K24.A.A$383.K.2K23.A.3A$382.K28.
A2.A10.A$378.2K.K23.2A7.A10.A$378.K.K23.2A.3A2.2A8.A2.A$378.2K25.A16.
2A$379.2K.2K22.2A$380.4K23.2A$381.2K.4K$384.K2.K$384.3K2$445.A$444.3A
.3A$444.A2.2A.A$446.2A2.A$446.A.A$446.3A18$462.A.A$461.3A$460.2A.3A$
461.2A4.A$463.2A.A.2A$463.2A2.A.2A$468.2A$465.3A$465.A74.3A$465.2A2.A
70.A$467.A.A70.2A.2A$467.3A71.2A.A$540.A.3A$539.2A$540.2A$514.A$504.A
10.A$511.3A.A38.3A$512.A2.A37.2A.A$504.A7.3A37.2A.A$551.2A3.A$551.3A
3.A$552.2A4.2A34.A25.3A$549.3A7.2A32.3A$549.A.A6.2A32.A2.A23.A$549.A.
A6.A32.2A.A24.2A$550.2A39.A2.A$594.A$597.3A20.A$596.A2.A19.A$594.A2.
3A17.A.A2.A$594.A2.A12.A6.2A$595.3A11.2A7.A$610.2A.4A.A.2A116.I$612.
2A2.A.A.A116.3I$613.A67.2I53.I.2I$617.3A61.2I.I51.2I2.I$679.3I2.2I55.
2I$679.I2.3I57.2I$651.I7.2I18.3I.I57.2I$593.2A55.2I3.I.I2.I43.3I34.I$
593.A55.2I4.2I31.I21.I$650.2I31.2I18.I.I.I2.2I$594.3A55.2I28.2I.2I15.
2I.I.4I.2I$683.2I20.I7.2I$653.I30.I20.2I6.I$653.2I46.I2.I.I$653.3I48.
I$703.I3$703.2I$704.I2$701.3I26$804.I$803.3I$771.I31.I$802.I$773.I27.
3I$767.I5.I29.I$766.3I3.I.2I27.I$768.2I2.3I27.2I$765.2I.I4.I26.I4.2I$
765.3I.I30.I.4I$767.I.I30.I5.2I3.2I$767.3I32.2I4.I2.I2.I$803.I10.I$
806.I7.I4$894.3K$887.2K7.3K$888.2K3.K3.3K$884.3K.K10.2K$884.K13.2K$
884.2K.2K$886.2K$836.3I$836.I.I87.2K$836.I2.2I85.K.K$840.I51.2K33.3K$
838.3I86.2K$836.2I88.K$835.2I.I2.2I79.2K.K$836.2I.I.2I80.3K$838.I4.2I
79.K$840.3I.2I$842.3I6.3I$841.I.I7.I.I$851.I.3I$847.I4.I.2I$846.3I3.
4I$845.2I.I2.I$847.4I$847.2I2.2I.I$849.I.I.2I$851.2I2$1096.2K$1089.K
6.K.K$1088.2K6.K.K$1087.2K7.3K$1088.2K4.2K$1090.K3.3K$1091.K3.2K$
1092.K.2K$1091.K.2K$1091.3K4$1014.K$1013.3K$957.2K53.K.2K$957.2K.K51.
2K2.K$955.3K2.2K55.2K$955.K2.3K57.2K32.2K$955.3K.K57.2K34.2K$980.3K
34.K31.3K.K$964.K21.K62.K.2K$959.2K18.K.K.K2.2K61.2K.2K$958.2K.2K15.
2K.K.4K.2K39.K23.K$959.2K20.K7.2K38.2K20.3K$960.K20.2K6.K37.2K.2K$
977.K2.K.K46.2K$980.K44.K$979.K$1030.K.3K$1029.3K2.K$979.2K47.2K2.3K$
980.K48.K.2K$1031.2K$977.3K21$1130.3K$1130.K.K$1130.K.3K$1131.K2.K10.
K$1125.2K7.K10.K$1124.2K.3K2.2K8.K2.K$1125.K16.2K$1126.2K$1127.2K8$
1145.K7.K$1145.K10.K$1145.K2.K2.K4.2K$1147.2K3.2K5.K$1154.4K.K$1153.
2K4.K$1156.2K69.2K$1156.K68.2K.K.K$1156.K68.K.2K2.2K$1156.3K70.4K$
1157.K70.K2.K.2K$1156.K67.4K3.3K$1154.3K67.2K.K4.K$1155.K68.3K.K$
1226.K.K$1226.3K5$1182.K.K$1181.3K$1180.2K.3K$1181.2K4.K$1183.2K.K.2K
$1183.2K2.K.2K$1188.2K$1185.3K$1185.K$1185.2K2.K$1187.K.K$1187.3K!

The first state-2 trail is p480, the next state-10 trail is p1440, and the next state-12 trail is p4320, etc. The period of a color band is three times that of the previous band. But there is no obvious pattern regarding the sequence of band width, and its behaviour does not really resemble a trinary counter to me.

[pzq_alex]

Here's a rule that simulates the chain of cloverleaves.

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = cloverleafsim
50A!
@RULE cloverleafsim
@TABLE
n_states:2
neighborhood:moore
symmetries:none
var a={0,1}
var b=a
var c=a
0,0,a,b,c,1,0,1,0,1
1,0,a,b,c,0,0,0,1,0
0,1,a,b,c,0,0,0,1,1
1,0,a,b,c,0,0,1,0,0

Here is the equivalent MAP rule

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 1, rule = MAPAAD//zAwPz8AAP//MDA/PwAA//8AAP//AAD//wAA//8AAD8/AAD//wAAPz8AAP//wMD//wAA///AwP//AAD//w
50o!

[Pavgran]

Here's a rule that simulates the chain of coverleaves.

Code: Select all

x = 0, y = 0, rule = coverleafsim
50A!
@RULE coverleafsim
@TABLE
n_states:2
neighborhood:moore
symmetries:none
var a={0,1}
var b=a
var c=a
0,0,a,b,c,1,0,1,0,1
1,0,a,b,c,0,0,0,1,0
0,1,a,b,c,0,0,0,1,1
1,0,a,b,c,0,0,1,0,0

Here is the equivalent MAP rule

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 1, rule = MAPAAD//zAwPz8AAP//MDA/PwAA//8AAP//AAD//wAA//8AAD8/AAD//wAAPz8AAP//wMD//wAA///AwP//AAD//w
50o!

Wow, that's an interesting rule.

Here is my though process:
First, that's clear that a cell can't be influenced by the cell on it's right, and that a line pattern' evolution is contained in a triangle.
Let's see if line of length n goes through every possible state (all n! of them):

length - period
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 6
4 - 6

Hmm...
5 - 18
6 - 18
7 - 54

Now, it looks like the period is multiplied by 3 with every prime (except for 2, which is almost always a special prime)
8 - 54
9 - 54
10 - 54
11 - 162
12 - 162
13 - 486
Keep going...
14 - 486
15 - 1458

Hmm, so it's not primes then.

Long story short, here's a list of all jumps for lengths <= 128:
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 6
5 - 18
7 - 54
11 - 162
13 - 486
15 - 1458
23 - 4374
31 - 13122
43 - 39366
45 - 118098
47 - 354294
49 - 1062882
55 - 3188646
73 - 9565938
87 - 28697814
107 - 86093442
109 - 258280326

I couldn't find any pattern here (apart from that it seems to always (except for 2) jump to x3 the period).

[dvgrn]

Here's a rule that simulates the chain of coverleaves...
Here is the equivalent MAP rule...

Great work! For the record, if anyone is interested in the burning question of whether the lower end of the line ever moves up to horizontal, for the specific length shown ...

It takes its sweet time about it, but it happens for the first time at around 530,000 ticks.

[pzq_alex]

Here's a rule that simulates the chain of coverleaves...
Here is the equivalent MAP rule...

Great work! For the record, if anyone is interested in the burning question of whether the lower end of the line ever moves up to horizontal, for the specific length shown ...

It takes its sweet time about it, but it happens for the first time at around 530,000 ticks.

We can instead be cleverer and run the following script instead:

Code: Select all

import golly as g

p = 1 # current period
s = "" # current period sequence

g.run(1)

g.autoupdate(False)

for i in range(50):
    while True:
        if g.getcell(i, 0) == 1:
            p = int(g.getgen())
            break
        g.run(p)
    g.update()
    s += "%d -> %d, " % (i, p)
    g.setclipstr(s)

It utilizes the fact that if the first i cells oscillate with period p, then the first (i+1) cells oscillate with a period that's a multiple of p.
Edit: corrected a major error (the g.run(p) should be after the if statement).

Here are the first few periods:

Code: Select all

0 -> 1, 1 -> 2, 2 -> 6, 3 -> 6, 4 -> 18, 5 -> 18, 6 -> 54, 7 -> 54, 8 -> 54, 9 -> 54, 10 -> 162, 11 -> 162, 12 -> 486, 13 -> 486, 14 -> 1458, 15 -> 1458, 16 -> 1458, 17 -> 1458, 18 -> 1458, 19 -> 1458, 20 -> 1458, 21 -> 1458, 22 -> 4374, 23 -> 4374, 24 -> 4374, 25 -> 4374, 26 -> 4374, 27 -> 4374, 28 -> 4374, 29 -> 4374, 30 -> 13122, 31 -> 13122, 32 -> 13122, 33 -> 13122, 34 -> 13122, 35 -> 13122, 36 -> 13122, 37 -> 13122, 38 -> 13122, 39 -> 13122, 40 -> 13122, 41 -> 13122, 42 -> 39366, 43 -> 39366, 44 -> 118098, 45 -> 118098, 46 -> 354294, 47 -> 354294, 48 -> 1062882, 49 -> 1062882, 50 -> 1062882, 51 -> 1062882, 52 -> 1062882, 53 -> 1062882, 54 -> 3188646, 55 -> 3188646, 56 -> 3188646, 57 -> 3188646, 58 -> 3188646, 59 -> 3188646, 60 -> 3188646, 61 -> 3188646, 62 -> 3188646, 63 -> 3188646, 64 -> 3188646, 65 -> 3188646, 66 -> 3188646, 67 -> 3188646, 68 -> 3188646, 69 -> 3188646, 70 -> 3188646, 71 -> 3188646, 72 -> 9565938, 73 -> 9565938, 74 -> 9565938, 75 -> 9565938, 76 -> 9565938, 77 -> 9565938, 78 -> 9565938, 79 -> 9565938, 80 -> 9565938, 81 -> 9565938, 82 -> 9565938, 83 -> 9565938, 84 -> 9565938, 85 -> 9565938, 86 -> 28697814, 87 -> 28697814, 88 -> 28697814, 89 -> 28697814, 90 -> 28697814, 91 -> 28697814, 92 -> 28697814, 93 -> 28697814, 94 -> 28697814, 95 -> 28697814, 96 -> 28697814, 97 -> 28697814, 98 -> 28697814, 99 -> 28697814, 100 -> 28697814, 101 -> 28697814, 102 -> 28697814, 103 -> 28697814, 104 -> 28697814, 105 -> 28697814, 106 -> 86093442, 107 -> 86093442, 108 -> 258280326, 109 -> 258280326, 110 -> 258280326, 111 -> 258280326, 112 -> 258280326, 113 -> 258280326, 114 -> 258280326, 115 -> 258280326, 116 -> 258280326, 117 -> 258280326, 118 -> 258280326, 119 -> 258280326, 120 -> 258280326, 121 -> 258280326, 122 -> 258280326, 123 -> 258280326, 124 -> 258280326, 125 -> 258280326, 126 -> 258280326, 127 -> 258280326, 128 -> 258280326, 129 -> 258280326, 

[squareroot12621]

Why do some people use this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2obo$2ob3o$6bo$2ob2obo$bob2ob2o$bo$2b3ob2o$4bob2o!

instead of this?

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
4bo$3bobo$3bobo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o$3bob2o!

[dvgrn]

Why do some people use this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2obo$2ob3o$6bo$2ob2obo$bob2ob2o$bo$2b3ob2o$4bob2o!

instead of this?

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
4bo$3bobo$3bobo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o$3bob2o!

It's common practice when running CatForce searches, to speed up searches by using symmetrical forms of catalysts -- because it means that only a half or a quarter as many cases have to be tested in all. I seem to recall you might sometimes even see this for an eater2:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2obo2bob2o$2ob4ob2o2$2ob4ob2o$bobo2bobo$bobo2bobo$2ob4ob2o2$2ob4ob2o$
2obo2bob2o!

The one you posted is maybe a better compromise between catalyst size and search speed. If symmetric catalysts are too bulky, you end up missing good results because they take up so much space and other catalysts don't fit around them, where there would be plenty of room around a regular eater2.

[qqd]

Is there something like the bistable switch except with a single glider lane input?

[dvgrn]

Is there something like the bistable switch except with a single glider lane input?

Depending on your exact definition of "something like" -- sure:

Code: Select all

x = 94, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o15$85bo$84bobo$85bo2$83b5o$47bo35bo4bo$24bo22b3o36bo2bo$25bo
24bo35b2obo2bo$23b3o11bo11b2o11b2o19bo5bobobo$35b3o24b2o18bobo4bo2bo$
34bo47bo2bo2b2o$34b2o47b2o$19b2o56b2o$20bo56b2o$20bob2o$21bo2bo$22b2o$
37b2o$37b2o$72b2o$72b2o3$45bo3b2o$44bobo3bo$40b2obobo3bo12b2o$40b2obo
4bo13bo$44b5obo12b3o$36b2obob2obo4bobo13bo$36bob2obo2bob2o2bo$29b2o12b
2obob2o$29b2o!

Really a key feature of the bistable switch is that it serves as a differentiator -- sends out a signal only when the first glider comes in on an input lane, then lets more of the same signals pass through harmlessly. Seems like you pretty much need two lanes to duplicate that part of the bistable switch's behavior.

[AlbertArmStain]

Can someone give the link to the octohash database?

[Book]

Can someone give the link to the octohash database?

check out octohash database references

[AlbertArmStain]

Can someone give the link to the octohash database?

check out octohash database references

how do you run it though?

[Book]

Check out the "see also" tutorials

[AlbertArmStain]

Check out the "see also" tutorials

I figured out that I have to run bgolly, but my security settings are preventing me from using it because the developer is "unidentified"

[AlbertArmStain]

Check out the "see also" tutorials

I figured out that I have to run bgolly, but my security settings are preventing me from using it because the developer is "unidentified"

still not working
I'm getting "line 19, in get9char h.update(inputstr)
TypeError: Unicode-objects must be encoded before hashing"

[wirehead]

I'm getting "line 19, in get9char h.update(inputstr)
TypeError: Unicode-objects must be encoded before hashing"

Sounds like a Python error. Are you sure you're using the right version (Python 2 or Python 3)?

[dvgrn]

I'm getting "line 19, in get9char h.update(inputstr)
TypeError: Unicode-objects must be encoded before hashing"

Sounds like a Python error. Are you sure you're using the right version (Python 2 or Python 3)?

Yup -- even the earliest octohash code is Python3, so this is looking like there's an old Python 2 installation on the computer somewhere. Try running this

Code: Select all

import golly as g
import sys
s = sys.version
g.setclipstr(s)
g.note(s)

and report what it says here (the text will get copied to the clipboard, don't try re-typing it), along with your Golly version and operating system.

[C_R_116]

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
7b2ob2o$2ob2o2bo3bo$o3bo3b3o$b3o5bo$9bo$8b3o$b3o$o3bo$b3o4b3o$9bo$9bo
$b3o4b3o$o3bo2bo3bo$2ob2o2b2ob2o!

[qqd]

Is there something like the bistable switch except with a single glider lane input?

Depending on your exact definition of "something like" -- sure:

Code: Select all

x = 94, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o15$85bo$84bobo$85bo2$83b5o$47bo35bo4bo$24bo22b3o36bo2bo$25bo
24bo35b2obo2bo$23b3o11bo11b2o11b2o19bo5bobobo$35b3o24b2o18bobo4bo2bo$
34bo47bo2bo2b2o$34b2o47b2o$19b2o56b2o$20bo56b2o$20bob2o$21bo2bo$22b2o$
37b2o$37b2o$72b2o$72b2o3$45bo3b2o$44bobo3bo$40b2obobo3bo12b2o$40b2obo
4bo13bo$44b5obo12b3o$36b2obob2obo4bobo13bo$36bob2obo2bob2o2bo$29b2o12b
2obob2o$29b2o!

Really a key feature of the bistable switch is that it serves as a differentiator -- sends out a signal only when the first glider comes in on an input lane, then lets more of the same signals pass through harmlessly. Seems like you pretty much need two lanes to duplicate that part of the bistable switch's behavior.

This is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

[dvgrn]

What pattern is this called?...
To add, what about this?

I'm not sure if those exact p2 oscillators have their own names. The first one is one of many similar billiard table oscillators with multiple beacon rotors inside; the second one is a mirrored and time-shifted version of the first -- a "dimerization".

Also, LOAF AND GLIDER GUNS!

I moved this post out of the Oscillator discussion thread, partly because this is the kind of experimental pattern that isn't really a discovery -- it's more like "construction practice". Generally it's better to post things along those lines in the Sandbox.

[AlbertArmStain]

Can someone give me the NW GPSE launch ash blob for the RCT?

[Pavgran]

Can someone give me the NW GPSE launch ash blob for the RCT?

Code: Select all

x = 135, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
60b2o$59bobo$59b2o9$69b2o$69b2o7$65b2o$65b2o2$21bo$21bo$21bo2$23b3o6$
57b2o33b2o$57b2o32bobo$91b2o$36b2o22bo$36b2o22bo$60bo2$62b3o2$59b2o$
58bo2bo$59b2o40b2o$37b2o62b2o$36bo2bo$6b2o29bobo$5bobo30bo$4bobo$5bo
25b2o$31b2o$97b2o$b2o94b2o$o2bo$b2o57b2o$59bobo$60bo$16b2o53bo$15bo2bo
52bo$16b2o53bo4$35b2o41b3o$12b2o21b2o52b2o33b2o$11bo2bo74b2o32bobo$12b
2o15b2o92b2o$28bo2bo60bo$28bo2bo60bo$29b2o61bo2$94b3o2$91b2o$90bo2bo$
91b2o40b2o$133b2o4$61b2o$60bo2bo$61bobo$62bo66b2o$129b2o2$92b2o$91bobo
$92bo$103bo$103bo$103bo$55b2o$54bo2bo$55b2o$110b3o$121b2o$121b2o2$124b
o$124bo$124bo2$126b3o2$123b2o$122bo2bo$123b2o5$93b2o$92bo2bo$93bobo$
94bo3$124b2o$123bobo$124bo4$87b2o$86bo2bo$87b2o!

Launch ash + two periods of GPSE ash from NW corner.