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Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 7th, 2020, 12:47 pm
by Amused Ition
Hunting wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 9:26 am
Amused Ition wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 7:56 am
I'm sure this is common knowledge, but I'm just checking:
The two-glider mess isn't the thing that takes the longest to stabilize that uses two gliders and only two gliders. That's basic stuff, right?
What is the most long-lasting two-glider collision, then?
I didn't say collision, did I? (Although it may be - I'm not sure.) The image I've attached has a lifespan of 2630 generations. I have the info on its ash, as well.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 7th, 2020, 12:55 pm
by goldenratio
use golly (the link at the top of this page)
"Collision" is not the same thing as "Interaction". Those two gliders could not have possibly reached their places from infinity. Thus they are not of interest.
quoting my own advice here:
goldenratio wrote:To clarify on this, a lot of new users like to try and discover things by drawing patterns and hoping they produce something special or last for a really long time. This is NOT how you make discoveries of note in B3/S23 in 2020. Finding methuselahs (for reference a methuselah larger than 10 cells should last >20000 generations to be notable, as stated in the rules) will usually require some sort of computer search, and trying to find one by hand is comparable to checking your backyard every day to see if a meteorite has fallen there; you could stumble upon something but the probability is extremely small. As for producing interesting objects, apgsearch is a much better option.
Try engineering, OCA, glider syntheses, or apgsearch (We would love to have another apgsearcher to search our OCA rules) instead.
The
tutorials page is a good place to start learning how to seriously contribute to GoL.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 7th, 2020, 12:58 pm
by Amused Ition
goldenratio wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 12:55 pm
use golly (the link at the top of this page)
"Collision" is not the same thing as "Interaction". Those two gliders could not have possibly reached their places from infinity. Thus they are not of interest.
quoting my own advice here:
goldenratio wrote:To clarify on this, a lot of new users like to try and discover things by drawing patterns and hoping they produce something special or last for a really long time. This is NOT how you make discoveries of note in B3/S23 in 2020. Finding methuselahs (for reference a methuselah larger than 10 cells should last >20000 generations to be notable, as stated in the rules) will usually require some sort of computer search, and trying to find one by hand is comparable to checking your backyard every day to see if a meteorite has fallen there; you could stumble upon something but the probability is extremely small. As for producing interesting objects, apgsearch is a much better option.
Try engineering, OCA, glider syntheses, or apgsearch (We would love to have another apgsearcher to search our OCA rules) instead.
Alright, good to know! Thank you! I will!
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 7th, 2020, 7:09 pm
by Hunting
Amused Ition wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 12:47 pm
Hunting wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 9:26 am
Amused Ition wrote: ↑August 7th, 2020, 7:56 am
I'm sure this is common knowledge, but I'm just checking:
The two-glider mess isn't the thing that takes the longest to stabilize that uses two gliders and only two gliders. That's basic stuff, right?
What is the most long-lasting two-glider collision, then?
I didn't say collision, did I? (Although it may be - I'm not sure.) The image I've attached has a lifespan of 2630 generations. I have the info on its ash, as well.
Dang. I'm so annoyed. It's just a useless clever trick...
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 10th, 2020, 4:37 am
by kiho park
I have a question.
There are many adjustable spaceships and oscillators we discovered.
But, What if adjustable replicators? Is it possible? Or is it have already discovered?
Edit : IT IS SO CLOSE!!!!!
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 3, rule = B2cek3-ciq4certyz5ein6c78/S01e2ai3ejry4cejkntw5ace6ik7
4bo$o2b2o4b2o$4bo!
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 10th, 2020, 10:05 am
by gameoflifemaniac
Where can i find the newest version of StateInvestigator?
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 10th, 2020, 11:12 pm
by wwei23
I can't find a better place to put this question:
Will running a copy of Catagolue locally cost me money?
EDIT: Just noticed the Catagolue discussion thread. I don't want to cross-post though.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 11th, 2020, 1:13 am
by mniemiec
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 10th, 2020, 11:12 pm
I can't find a better place to put this question: Will running a copy of Catagolue locally cost me money?
Only indirectly:
1) You need to supply your own computer to run apgsearch on
2) You need to provide electricity to run the computer
3) You need to provide an internet connection, and bandwidth to upload results
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 11th, 2020, 1:14 am
by wildmyron
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 10th, 2020, 11:12 pm
Will running a copy of Catagolue locally cost me money?
No, it won't. Running Catagolue costs money because it is hosted on Google App Engine. When you run it locally it runs on your own machine and the only cost is the electricity bill.
[Edit: ninja'd]
mniemiec wrote: ↑August 11th, 2020, 1:13 am
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 10th, 2020, 11:12 pm
I can't find a better place to put this question: Will running a copy of Catagolue locally cost me money?
Only indirectly:
1) You need to supply your own computer to run apgsearch on
2) You need to provide electricity to run the computer
3) You need to provide an internet connection, and bandwidth to upload results
Regarding 3) - you would actually save bandwidth running Catgolue locally if you upload apgsearch results to your local instance of Catagolue (requires code modification of apgsearch).
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
by wwei23
Cool, I finally have somewhere to upload my 1x256X2+1 search results. Note: I know it's marked as a troll symmetry, but I had no intention of trolling with it.
Another question. Whenever I try to create a glider synthesis, what I'll do is pop it into JLS, and try to trace its evolution backwards into something that I can synthesize. It works for around 3 to 5 generations or so, but then I start running into problems. JLS starts to take huge amounts of time to reverse the evolution farther back, and whenever it finds something, it's usually some sparse cloud that would probably be harder to synthesize. Even population constraints sometimes aren't enough to stop this from happening. How can I work around this problem?
EDIT: Thanks Calcyman!
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 11th, 2020, 2:46 pm
by calcyman
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
Cool, I finally have somewhere to upload my 1x256X2+1 search results. Note: I know it's marked as a troll symmetry, but I had no intention of trolling with it.
I've removed it from the troll symmetry list in the latest commit to Catagolue.
The reason for adding it to the troll symmetry list
ab initio was that you made
a lot of noise on many distinct forum threads. That, together with the other things referenced in my
rant, drove me to the point of trollifying that symmetry.
As you've significantly improved in the three years since I made that post, you've regained the privilege of having 1x256X2+1 in the visible Catagolue.
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/1x256X2+1
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 12th, 2020, 8:26 pm
by hotdogPi
Can this be made into a tiny P18?
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$5b3o$5bobo$5bo!
Note that a W-pentomino with a single extra cell (disconnected from the pentomino) becomes another R-pentomino in exactly the right position. If we can get a P2, P3, P6, or P9 to provide that extra cell without destroying the rest of the pattern, we have a P18.
Re: Thread basic for questions
Posted: August 14th, 2020, 2:14 am
by ColorfulGalaxy
Should this be called "Mathematician Weld Mathematician"?
Code: Select all
x = 0, y = 0, rule = LifeHistory
4.A$3.A.A$3.A.A$2.2A.2A$A7.A$3A3.3A2$9A$A7.A$.7A2$.7A$A7.A$9A2$4A.4A$A7.A$2.2A.2A$
3.A.A$3.A.A$4.A!
Also, what is the smallest induction coil?
Is it the preblock?
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 14th, 2020, 7:46 am
by Freywa
ColorfulGalaxy wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 2:14 am
Should this be called "Mathematician Weld Mathematician"?
It's easy to come up with a smaller weld:
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5bo$4bobo$4bobo$3b2ob2o$bo7bo$b3o3b3o2$b9o$o9bo$b9o2$b4ob4o$bo7bo$3b2o
b2o$4bobo$4bobo$5bo!
But there are so many ways to weld two mathematicians (or any large objects) together that the term
weld isn't commonly used.
ColorfulGalaxy wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 2:14 am
Also, what is the smallest induction coil?
Is it the preblock?
Yes. The aircraft carrier can be considered to have two of them;
xs13_641vg4c is a larger example.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 14th, 2020, 8:41 pm
by bubblegum
hotdogPi wrote: ↑August 12th, 2020, 8:26 pm
Can this be made into a tiny P18?
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$5b3o$5bobo$5bo!
Note that a W-pentomino with a single extra cell (disconnected from the pentomino) becomes another R-pentomino in exactly the right position. If we can get a P2, P3, P6, or P9 to provide that extra cell without destroying the rest of the pattern, we have a P18.
We'll need a p18 fountain that generates two dot sparks offset by 1 cell at 9-generation offsets. If that was "tiny", I wouldn't want to know what was "large".
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 17th, 2020, 4:58 am
by yujh
is there a catalyst database?
Edit:
Freywa wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 7:46 am
ColorfulGalaxy wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 2:14 am
"Mathematician Weld Mathematician"?
It's easy to come up with a smaller weld:
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5bo$4bobo$4bobo$3b2ob2o$bo7bo$b3o3b3o2$b9o$o9bo$b9o2$b4ob4o$bo7bo$3b2o
b2o$4bobo$4bobo$5bo!
Smaller(?)48cells
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6bobo$6bobo$5b2ob2o$3bo7bo$3b3o3b3o$o$12o$11bo$3o3b3o$o7bo$2b2ob2o
$3bobo$3bobo$4bo!
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 20th, 2020, 11:02 pm
by wwei23
How practical is it to soup-search for puffer orbits? The method definitely has some potential:
Code: Select all
x = 28, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
4b3o11b3o$3bo2bo10bo2bo$6bo4b3o6bo$6bo4bo2bo5bo$3bobo4bo6bobo5$obobo2b
2obo6b2o3bob3o$3b2o5bobobo2b4o2b5o$b2o3b2o2b3o2bo2bo6bobo$o2bo3bobo2b
3o4bobob3o$2bo2bo2bobo4bo3bob4obo$2b2o4bo5bobo2bo2b2o3bo$3b5o2b2ob3ob
4obobob2o$6bo2bobo2b2obobob2obobo$bobobobobo3bo2b7o2b3o$4bo4b7o3bobobo
bobo$b3o2b4o5bo2b2o5bo$ob4o2b2o2b2o2bob2o3bobo$2o2bo3bo9b2o4b2obo$obo
2bo2b2o2bob3obo4b2obo$o2b3obo2b7o2bo3bo$3obobob3ob2ob5o2b2o$obo2b3ob5o
2bo6bob2o!
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 21st, 2020, 7:21 am
by dvgrn
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 20th, 2020, 11:02 pm
How practical is it to soup-search for puffer orbits? The method definitely has some potential...
I guess I'd call it a well-known method, along with truncating the back end of spaceship search result lists.
Soup searching is how codeholic
found the non-trivial fuse that completed the pufferfish spaceship, for example.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 21st, 2020, 7:30 am
by yujh
dvgrn wrote: ↑August 21st, 2020, 7:21 am
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 20th, 2020, 11:02 pm
How practical is it to soup-search for puffer orbits? The method definitely has some potential...
I guess I'd call it a well-known method, along with truncating the back end of spaceship search result lists.
Soup searching is how codeholic
found the non-trivial fuse that completed the pufferfish spaceship, for example.
Is there a script for it?
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 21st, 2020, 9:05 am
by dvgrn
yujh wrote: ↑August 21st, 2020, 7:30 am
Is there a script for it?
Did you follow the link? There's a script just
a couple of posts down.
I remember running it for a while at one point. It may need some adjusting, depending on what specifically you want to look for.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 24th, 2020, 12:11 am
by saolof
Is there any pi eater that has similar good clearance to Gosper's 2-block pi-eater, but eats it faster? There's mentions of other pi eaters on the forums every so often, but it tends to be in the context of conduits that use space all around the pi.
I have a glider collision setup that generates Pi's, and most of the eaters available that I've stumbled upon would get hit by the gliders on the way in. I'd love something like Tanner's pi catcher but just a couple cells less wide. For example, putting a tub right next to a pi turns it into a honeycomb, so, some catalyst or sparker that turns a honeycomb back into a tub should do the trick.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 24th, 2020, 1:10 am
by bubblegum
saolof wrote: ↑August 24th, 2020, 12:11 am
Is there any pi eater that has similar good clearance to Gosper's 2-block pi-eater, but eats it faster? There's mentions of other pi eaters on the forums every so often, but it tends to be in the context of conduits that use space all around the pi.
I have a glider collision setup that generates Pi's, and most of the eaters available that I've stumbled upon would get hit by the gliders on the way in. I'd love something like Tanner's pi catcher but just a couple cells less wide. For example, putting a tub right next to a pi turns it into a honeycomb, so, some catalyst or sparker that turns a honeycomb back into a tub should do the trick.
Is this enough clearance?
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o9bo$3o5b3o$3bo3bo$2b2o3b2o7$4b3o$4bobo$4bobo!
And do you mean
honeycomb or
beehive? I'm assuming beehive.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 24th, 2020, 2:03 am
by saolof
Ah, meant beehive.
Also, that pi eater is amazing and exactly what I needed, thanks! It significantly reduced the repeat time of my stable circuits, and made shorter periods viable.
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 27th, 2020, 1:36 pm
by wwei23
2 questions here.
1: Why do you need 8 gliders to destroy the block in the Snarkmaker recipe? Surely it's well-known how to destroy a block with one glider.
2: How do I find billiard table oscillators? I was able to rediscover known ones (including a P17 from jslife) from the shape of the walls, but when I hollowed out a random still life and tried to get a billiard table, I couldn't find anything. Help?
Re: Thread for basic questions
Posted: August 27th, 2020, 1:49 pm
by dvgrn
wwei23 wrote: ↑August 27th, 2020, 1:36 pm
Why do you need 8 gliders to destroy the block in the Snarkmaker recipe? Surely it's well-known how to destroy a block with one glider.
This question is about the "8 gliders to remove the 0-degree elbow when it's no longer needed" list item in the
Snarkmaker article, right?
There's a big extra limitation when you're creating a Snark with a single-channel salvo. All the gliders are on the same lane, and only the timing can be adjusted. One glider hitting the block on that particular lane will make a pi-heptomino explosion. So instead we have to find a combination of gliders following behind each other on that lane, that settles the pi explosion and cleans everything up.
Eight gliders is as cheap as we can get it, I think, at least until we invent some new universal signal circuitry that recovers quicker than 90 ticks.