Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
Chris857
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Chris857 » November 21st, 2021, 3:02 am

Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 2:15 am
What is the smallest pattern with no polyomino parent?
Do you want a direct parent, so that you have a pattern that one generation earlier is a polyomino?

If empty space / vacuum is a pattern, then a dot spark or domino spark is a parent of vacuum (so the smallest pattern with no polyomino parent must have at least 1 cell). But thinking about it (at 2am), does a dot spark have any finite polyomino parent? I can think of an infinite polyomino that covers the entire plane except for a bit in the middle that is the immediate parent of a dot (picture the live cells continuing forever):

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
11o$11o$11o$11o$5ob5o$4o3b4o$5o2b4o$11o$11o$11o$11o!
Edit: to mniemiec's comment, if you want any generation back predecessor, then the question definitely seems harder.

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Hdjensofjfnen
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Location: r cis θ

Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Hdjensofjfnen » November 21st, 2021, 4:16 am

Chris857 wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 3:02 am
But thinking about it (at 2am), does a dot spark have any finite polyomino parent?
Yes:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2bo$5o$2bo$2bo!
mniemiec wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 2:56 am
I suspect that the answer to this would be "the smallest Garden of Eden pattern". Most other patterns are probably glider-constructible, and it ought to be possible to create a highly artificial polyomino framework that consists of some lumps that turn into gliders, attached to scaffolding that quickly dies out, in much the same way that plastic models are formed from one single piece of molded plastic consisting of a discardable scaffold attached to all the relevant parts.
Sorry, I meant a direct polyomino parent (one generation).

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 9, rule = B3-jqr/S01c2-in3
3bo$4bo$o2bo$2o2$2o$o2bo$4bo$3bo!

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!

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Macbi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Macbi » November 21st, 2021, 6:31 am

mniemiec wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 2:56 am
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 2:15 am
What is the smallest pattern with no polyomino parent?
I suspect that the answer to this would be "the smallest Garden of Eden pattern". Most other patterns are probably glider-constructible, and it ought to be possible to create a highly artificial polyomino framework that consists of some lumps that turn into gliders, attached to scaffolding that quickly dies out, in much the same way that plastic models are formed from one single piece of molded plastic consisting of a discardable scaffold attached to all the relevant parts.
I think they specifically meant 'parent' and not 'ancestor'.

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » November 21st, 2021, 8:49 pm

Do any of these sequences have names?

Code: Select all

x = 143, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
2bo$23bo$2o59bo19b2o18bobo$22b2o17b3o2bo15b2o2bo16bo2bo15bo3bo$2b2o19b
2o19bo19bo19bo19bo16bo19bo$3bo20b2o17b2o19bo18b2o18b2o16bo19bo$3bo59b
o57bo19bo$121bo19bo$120bo19bo$121bo18bo$122bo19bo!

Code: Select all

x = 546, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
384bo38bo19bo19bo20bo19bo19bo$225bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo17bobo
15bob3o14bobo19bo19bo17bobo19bo19bo18bo2bo$3b3o17b3o17b3o17b3o17b3o17b
3o17b3o17b3o17b3o17b3o17b3o17b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o19bo17b
2obo17bobo18b3o13bo3b3o17b3o17b2o14bo3b2o18b2o17b3o$364bo20bo19bo16bo
19bo17bobo19bo3bo15bo3bo13bobo3bo14bo3bo$2bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19b
o19bo19bo19bo20bo19bo19bo19bo19bo20bo19bo18bo$bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19b
o20bo19bo19bo19bo18bo18b2o18bo19bobo19bo18bo19b2o18b2o$obo19bo19bo19b
o19bo18bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo18bobo19bo18b2o18bo18b2o19b2o18bo19bo$20b
o20bo20bo20bo18bo20bo16bo20bo20bo20bo!

Code: Select all

x = 454, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
363bo$2bo30bo28b2o28b2o28bo30bo29bo28b2o28bo29bo59bo29bo$2b2o28b2o28b
o30bo27bo60bo60bo56b3o58bo30bo29bo29bo$120bo2bo26b3o27b2o28b2o28b2o28b
2obo55bob2o27bo29bobo27bobo27bobo$bo29bo29bo29bo28bo29bo29bo29bo29bo29b
o28bo30bo29bo31bo29bo29bo$obo27bobo27bobo27bobo27b2o28bo29bo29bo29bo29b
o29b2o28bo28bobo30b2o28b2o28b2o$bo29bo29bo29bo59bo29bo29bo29bo29bo59b
o61bo$302bo119bo30bo!

Code: Select all

x = 303, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
301bo$3bo29bo28bo29bo29b2o30bo28b2o28bo28bo29bo29bo$2b2o26bob2o25bo2b
2o28b2o25bo2bo28b3o27b2o28b2obo26b2o28b2o29bo$2o29bo29bo27bobo29bo29b
o29bo29bo30bo31bo27bo$bo29bo29bo29bo29b2o28bo29bo29bo28b2o28b2o29bo$b
o30bo29bo28bo60bo29bo29bo59bo27bo$242bo56bo!

Code: Select all

x = 516, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
302bo29bo$o302bo29bo28bo28bo29bo29bo28bo29bo$ob2o27bo30bo29bo29bo29bo
29bo29bo29bo29bo28b2o28b2o29b2o27bobo27b2obo26b2obo26b3o27b3o$o2bo24b
obob3o24b2ob2o26bob2o24bobob2o24bobob2o25b2ob2o26bob2o24bobob2o24bobo
b2o28b2o28b2o28bo28b3o27bobo27bobo27bobo27bobo$3bo24bo29bo5bo23b2o4bo
24bo4bo23bo5bo23bo29b2o29bo28bo94bo60bo30bo28bo30bo$184bo29bo29bo29bo
28bo28bo59bo$362b2o!

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ihatecorderships
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by ihatecorderships » November 22nd, 2021, 11:37 am

MathAndCode wrote:
November 21st, 2021, 8:49 pm
Do any of these sequences have names?

Code: Select all

x = 454, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
363bo$2bo30bo28b2o28b2o28bo30bo29bo28b2o28bo29bo59bo29bo$2b2o28b2o28b
o30bo27bo60bo60bo56b3o58bo30bo29bo29bo$120bo2bo26b3o27b2o28b2o28b2o28b
2obo55bob2o27bo29bobo27bobo27bobo$bo29bo29bo29bo28bo29bo29bo29bo29bo29b
o28bo30bo29bo31bo29bo29bo$obo27bobo27bobo27bobo27b2o28bo29bo29bo29bo29b
o29b2o28bo28bobo30b2o28b2o28b2o$bo29bo29bo29bo59bo29bo29bo29bo29bo59b
o61bo$302bo119bo30bo!
Those are all octomino II relatives.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo$3o$ob2o$3bo!
-- Kalan Warusa
Don't drink and drive, think and derive.

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » November 22nd, 2021, 11:52 am

Add this one to the list

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo$3o$bo$2b2o!
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉟,㊱,㊳S,㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,70,72,74S,75,76S,80,84,90,96,100,102S,108,110,112,114G,116,117G,120,126G,128,138,147,154,156,180,196S,217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » November 22nd, 2021, 5:30 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
November 22nd, 2021, 11:52 am
Add this one to the list

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo$3o$bo$2b2o!
What is its name?

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » November 22nd, 2021, 7:16 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
November 22nd, 2021, 5:30 pm
hotdogPi wrote:
November 22nd, 2021, 11:52 am
Add this one to the list

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo$3o$bo$2b2o!
What is its name?
It has no name right now. I was referring to the list of "do these have a name", not your list in the other thread.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉟,㊱,㊳S,㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,70,72,74S,75,76S,80,84,90,96,100,102S,108,110,112,114G,116,117G,120,126G,128,138,147,154,156,180,196S,217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » November 23rd, 2021, 4:19 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
November 22nd, 2021, 7:16 pm
It has no name right now. I was referring to the list of "do these have a name", not your list in the other thread.
I'm not planning to make a continually maintained list of sequences that I will add as soon as they have names. You posted that pattern, so I think that that is sufficient.
Also, here are some seven-cell parents that I found.

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
59bo20bo$o19bo18bobo19bo19bo$b2o18b2o17b2o18b2o18b2o$bo2bo16bobo18bo19bo19bo$2b2o$22bobo17b2o18b2o18b2o!

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C28
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by C28 » November 27th, 2021, 8:39 pm

how many stable and periodic elementary G to X's are known (excluding the recently discovered G to Octomino II and any that involve a glider slaming into a twin bees shuttle spark)?
- Christopher D'Agostino


the U-turner guy

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$8bobo$9bo8$b3o$b3o$obo$2o!
the U-turner gallery
255P132
can we make a (13,4)c/41 spaceship?

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » November 28th, 2021, 4:07 am

Does this sequence have a name?

Code: Select all

x = 484, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
243bo27bo29bobo28bo90bo29bo29bo$o2bo27bobo26b2obo27bobo27bo28b2o29bo29b
3o27b2o29b2o28bo28bobo27bo29bo30bo29bo29bo$bo2b2o24bo3b2o28b2o28b2o24b
o2b3o27b3o27b3o176b2o28b2o28bo29bo29bo$bo3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo24b2o3bo25b
o4bo24bo4bo23b2o4bo25bo29b2o27b2o28b3o27b3o28bo29bo28bo29bo29bo$211bo
bo27bo31bo89bo29bo26bo29bo29bo$214bo29bo29bo29bo29bo29bo26bobo26bo30b
o29bo$362bo58bo29bo28bo!
MathAndCode wrote:
November 23rd, 2021, 4:19 pm
Also, here are some seven-cell parents that I found.

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
59bo20bo$o19bo18bobo19bo19bo$b2o18b2o17b2o18b2o18b2o$bo2bo16bobo18bo19bo19bo$2b2o$22bobo17b2o18b2o18b2o!
I found relatives.

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
o2bo19b2o18b2o$2bob2o15b2obo16b2obo$2bo18bo3bo15bo4bo$3bo!

erictom333
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by erictom333 » November 28th, 2021, 4:34 am

MathAndCode wrote:
November 28th, 2021, 4:07 am
Does this sequence have a name?

Code: Select all

x = 484, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
243bo27bo29bobo28bo90bo29bo29bo$o2bo27bobo26b2obo27bobo27bo28b2o29bo29b
3o27b2o29b2o28bo28bobo27bo29bo30bo29bo29bo$bo2b2o24bo3b2o28b2o28b2o24b
o2b3o27b3o27b3o176b2o28b2o28bo29bo29bo$bo3bo25bo3bo25bo3bo24b2o3bo25b
o4bo24bo4bo23b2o4bo25bo29b2o27b2o28b3o27b3o28bo29bo28bo29bo29bo$211bo
bo27bo31bo89bo29bo26bo29bo29bo$214bo29bo29bo29bo29bo29bo26bobo26bo30b
o29bo$362bo58bo29bo28bo!
{/quote]
Pre-biblock.
MathAndCode wrote:
November 23rd, 2021, 4:19 pm
Also, here are some seven-cell parents that I found.

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
59bo20bo$o19bo18bobo19bo19bo$b2o18b2o17b2o18b2o18b2o$bo2bo16bobo18bo19bo19bo$2b2o$22bobo17b2o18b2o18b2o!
I found relatives.

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
o2bo19b2o18b2o$2bob2o15b2obo16b2obo$2bo18bo3bo15bo4bo$3bo!
Pre-temp-block.

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » November 28th, 2021, 2:29 pm

erictom333 wrote:
November 28th, 2021, 4:34 am
Pre-biblock.
Pre-temp-block.
I don't like those because they aren't descriptive. There are many other predecessors of bi-blocks and of temporary blocks.

affamatodidio
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by affamatodidio » November 28th, 2021, 6:21 pm

Hello. I have found a pattern of interest (at least for my ideas) and I am trying to isolate a spark or other output. The pattern in question is an eater 2 variant with a loaf, block, and boat placed in other areas. The RLE is as follows:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11bobo$12bo2$3b2o3b2o$3b2o2bo2bo2b2o$7bobo3bobo$8bo4bo$2o$obob2o
$2bob2o$bo$b2ob2o$2bobo$2bobo$3bo!
I'm trying to isolate an output using the eater 2 variant, but I'm unsuccessful. I am unable to use Bellman or other programs in that vein, so if any of you could help me that would be a major help.

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Wyirm
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Wyirm » November 30th, 2021, 1:31 pm

Why are nearly all of the c/4 orthogonal spaceships stabilizations of or powered by traffic lights, and why do most 2c/5 spaceships contain b hep's, pi hep's, or r-pentomino relatives? A large portion of spaceships for one speed in particular are powered by mechanisms that also appear in spaceships with the same speed and I want to know why.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 28, rule = TripleLife
17.G$17.3G$20.G$19.2G11$9.EF$8.FG.GD$8.DGAGF$10.DGD5$2.2G$3.G30.2G$3G
25.2G5.G$G27.G.G.3G$21.2G7.G.G$21.2G7.2G!
Bow down to the Herschel

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » November 30th, 2021, 1:39 pm

Wyirm wrote:
November 30th, 2021, 1:31 pm
Why are nearly all of the c/4 orthogonal spaceships stabilizations of or powered by traffic lights, and why do most 2c/5 spaceships contain b hep's, pi hep's, or r-pentomino relatives? A large portion of spaceships for one speed in particular are powered by mechanisms that also appear in spaceships with the same speed and I want to know why.
Regarding c/4, T-tetrominoes can easily be pushed one cell in four generations. There are several ways to do it, and this is one of the simplest:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2b2o2$bo$3o!
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉟,㊱,㊳S,㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,70,72,74S,75,76S,80,84,90,96,100,102S,108,110,112,114G,116,117G,120,126G,128,138,147,154,156,180,196S,217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

nezclaw
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Joined: November 20th, 2021, 10:01 pm

Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by nezclaw » December 5th, 2021, 9:54 pm

i just started playing a little while ago and i was wondering. how do i contribute? do i contribute? is there something i could be doing instead of drawing random garbage to see what evolves? should i just not worry about it and leave the science to the people who know what they're doing?
my desire to be scientifically rigorous vs my short attention span: fight!

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GUYTU6J
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Contact:

Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » December 6th, 2021, 2:12 am

affamatodidio wrote:
November 28th, 2021, 6:21 pm
Hello. I have found a pattern of interest (at least for my ideas) and I am trying to isolate a spark or other output. The pattern in question is an eater 2 variant with a loaf, block, and boat placed in other areas...
I'm trying to isolate an output using the eater 2 variant, but I'm unsuccessful. I am unable to use Bellman or other programs in that vein, so if any of you could help me that would be a major help.
Is there a goal for the application of this device? Anyway, I remembered an old question of mine and I can make a thumb spark with the grin-like block reaction as follows, though there is considerable steric hindrance due to the boat+carrier weld.

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
6.BA$5.ABAB$6.2A2B8.2A$7.4B6.A.A$8.4B.BA2.A$9.2B.BA.A.2A$9.4B.2A2.A$
10.A2B3.A$9.ABAB3.2A4.D$8.AB.AB4.B3.3B$8.B2AB5.6B2A$8.3B5.2B2ABAB.A$
3.A.2A.4B3.2BABAB2A.A.2A$.3AB2A3B2A2BAB.A.A2.B.A2.A$A4.B4.2A.B4A.4A.
2A$.3A.2A7.B3.A4.A$3.2A2.A2.5A.2A2.2A.A$6.2A2.A4.2A4.A.A.2A$13.A4.A2.
A.A.2A$13.6A3.A2$15.2A$15.2A!
nezclaw wrote:
December 5th, 2021, 9:54 pm
i just started playing a little while ago and i was wondering. how do i contribute? do i contribute? is there something i could be doing instead of drawing random garbage to see what evolves? should i just not worry about it and leave the science to the people who know what they're doing?
Welcome to the forums! You can start with Tutorials and FAQ to get familiar with this forums. Here is a list of topics of interest to the Life community in which you may find something of interest.

---
Revive my own questions again:
GUYTU6J wrote:
November 19th, 2021, 7:42 am
My own questions, including un-answered ones:
  1. Is Max synthesizable?
  2. Is there a official non-Google site that provides up-to-date Golly on Android, for accessibility in China?
  3. What's the asymptotic growth rate of infinite distinct Corderships gun that is driven by sqrtgun? What if it is driven by caber tosser?
  4. Is the following device completable nowadays, and can it be used for other Corderships?
    Kazyan wrote:
    January 6th, 2018, 10:57 pm
    Extrementhusiast wrote:Might there be a Bellman catalyst that restores or performs the work of this beehive?

    Code: Select all

    x = 60, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
    19b2o$19b4o$19bob2o2$20bo$19b2o$19b3o$21bo$33b2o$33b2o7$36bo$35b2o$34b
    o3bo$35b2o2bo$40bo$37bobo$38bo$38bo$38b2o$38b2o$58bo$57bobo$13bo10bo
    32bobo$12b5o5bob2o11bo20bo$11bo10bo3bo9bo$12b2o8b3obo9b2o$13b2o9b2o12b
    o$2o13bo21b3o$2o35b3o7$8b2o$8b2o11b2o$19b2o2bo$24bo3bo$18bo5bo3bo$19bo
    2b2o3bobo$20b3o5bo$28bo!
    
    This would likely end up producing a Heisenburp smaller than the ship itself!
    I'm almost certain there's a p1 solution there somewhere. Here's a p15 solution:

    Code: Select all

    x = 66, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
    19b2o$19b4o$19bob2o2$20bo$19b2o$19b3o$21bo$33b2o$33b2o23bo$57bobo3$57b
    3o$57b3o$58bo$36bo$35b2o$34bo3bo19bo$35b2o2bo17b3o$40bo16b3o$37bobo$
    38bo$38bo18bobo$38b2o18bo$38b2o$58bo$57bobo$13bo10bo32bobo4b2o$12b5o5b
    ob2o11bo20bo6bo$11bo10bo3bo9bo25b3o$12b2o8b3obo9b2o24bo$13b2o9b2o12bo$
    2o13bo21b3o$2o35b3o7$8b2o$8b2o11b2o$19b2o2bo$24bo3bo$18bo5bo3bo$19bo2b
    2o3bobo$20b3o5bo$28bo!

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 29, rule = B2-a/S12
8bo40bo$8bo38bobo$10b2o35bobo$7b3o37bo4$55bo$22b3o30b2o$3o4bobo43bo$
23b3o7bo19b2o$b3o4bo21b2obo6b2o$34bo$32bo18bo$32bo18bo5bo$57bo$16b3o
32bo$14b2o40bob2o$17bo17b2o19bo$17bo18bo$33b2o$34bo4$42bo$40bobo$40bob
o$40bo!

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Goldtiger997
Posts: 733
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Goldtiger997 » December 6th, 2021, 10:17 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
November 19th, 2021, 7:42 am
Is Max synthesizable?
I think so, but I'm just guessing really. We can't be sure until someone actually constructs a synthesis, but I suspect that will not happen for a while, because doing so seems like it will be very difficult. Max has quite a lot in common with the already synthesised Canada Grey, but the p2 corner components stick out in such a way as to make the construction of the nearby repeating part impossible if done in the same way as the Canada Grey synthesis. Futhermore, the p2 component is fairly large (roughly 40 cells), and syntheses of p2 spaceships are quite rare.

The more general challenge of synthesising an elementary spacefiller seems more doable. For example, the equivalent corner components in Spacefiller 2 look a lot simpler to synthesise as they resemble xWSSs, and also stick out less, making it seem plausible that the Canada Grey method could be used to synthesise the nearby repeating parts. However, those corner components are still quite big and stick out a lot more than the corner that was solved in the Canada Grey synthesis, so I'd estimate the difficulty of synthesising spacefiller 2 as maybe 5 or so times "harder" than synthesising Canada Grey.

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Wyirm
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Wyirm » December 9th, 2021, 11:55 am

This technically isn't a basic question, but I feel this needs to be answered.

What is the actual definition of an explosive ruleset? Sure some rules rapidly expand with no signs of stopping, but given a large enough soup size couldn't non-explosive rules be explosive? With a large enough soup in any rule a breeder will eventually show up, and make the soup large enough and macro-sized reactions are bound to appear. This may not be on a scale actually able to be perceived, or simulated, or created manually, but would eventually show up in a soup. The soup may be so large it takes on a scale comparable to the visible universe itself, but It still is random soup resulting in chaotic quadratic expansion. This makes all rules that have the capability to produce growth explosive, even though the amount of cells needed to create explosive growth vary.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 28, rule = TripleLife
17.G$17.3G$20.G$19.2G11$9.EF$8.FG.GD$8.DGAGF$10.DGD5$2.2G$3.G30.2G$3G
25.2G5.G$G27.G.G.3G$21.2G7.G.G$21.2G7.2G!
Bow down to the Herschel

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GUYTU6J
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » December 12th, 2021, 4:40 am

The single-channel elbow operation fire may give output gliders in any of the four directions with respect to the input stream (wait, actually just three, namely forward, backward, and sideways). What is their difference in terms of construction capabilities?

How many lane offsets are available for forward and backward fires? Is there some adjustable mechanism to reach a series of lanes?

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 29, rule = B2-a/S12
8bo40bo$8bo38bobo$10b2o35bobo$7b3o37bo4$55bo$22b3o30b2o$3o4bobo43bo$
23b3o7bo19b2o$b3o4bo21b2obo6b2o$34bo$32bo18bo$32bo18bo5bo$57bo$16b3o
32bo$14b2o40bob2o$17bo17b2o19bo$17bo18bo$33b2o$34bo4$42bo$40bobo$40bob
o$40bo!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » December 12th, 2021, 12:18 pm

GUYTU6J wrote:
December 12th, 2021, 4:40 am
The single-channel elbow operation fire may give output gliders in any of the four directions with respect to the input stream (wait, actually just three, namely forward, backward, and sideways). What is their difference in terms of construction capabilities?

How many lane offsets are available for forward and backward fires? Is there some adjustable mechanism to reach a series of lanes?
An elbowy can also fire *WSSes in the four orthogonal directions, so that's two more directions for your list. Maybe call them 0, 45, 90, 135, and 180 degrees.

*WSSes are several times as expensive as gliders, and HWSSes are more expensive than MWSSes which are maybe slightly more expensive than LWSSes, I don't remember -- those two both have lots of options compared to HWSSes (in any direction). I haven't noticed any significant difference in cost for gliders in one direction vs. another, except that sideways gliders are cheaper, of course -- 0-degree and 180-degree gliders get just gradually more expensive the farther away the output lane is from the single-channel lane. You can see that in the increasing length of the recipes in the first link below.

There are adjustable mechanisms to reach whatever lane you want -- just build a boat off to the side and fire a glider at it, for example. No optimization has been done beyond a certain point: slsparse has a data file giving good recipes for lanes +99 to -99 relative to the single-channel lane. For 180-degree recipes slsparse doesn't have any built in functionality, I don't think, but a similar range of lanes is available.

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GUYTU6J
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » December 13th, 2021, 11:30 am

Related to above question on the "construction capability" part:
Pavgran wrote:
December 13th, 2021, 11:07 am
...
Unfortunately, 90-degree kit is not enough to build that demonoid. There has to be another (temporary) 90-degree reflector to access the construction site along the path. That could be Snark, or, if we want to remain fully spartan, another Silver's reflector. In any case, that reflector has to be build by 0-deg gliders.
Isn't the demonoid-c512-hashlife-friendly.mc.gz in Golly pattern collection using only 90-degree kit?

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x = 60, y = 29, rule = B2-a/S12
8bo40bo$8bo38bobo$10b2o35bobo$7b3o37bo4$55bo$22b3o30b2o$3o4bobo43bo$
23b3o7bo19b2o$b3o4bo21b2obo6b2o$34bo$32bo18bo$32bo18bo5bo$57bo$16b3o
32bo$14b2o40bob2o$17bo17b2o19bo$17bo18bo$33b2o$34bo4$42bo$40bobo$40bob
o$40bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » December 13th, 2021, 2:55 pm

GUYTU6J wrote:
December 13th, 2021, 11:30 am
Isn't the demonoid-c512-hashlife-friendly.mc.gz in Golly pattern collection using only 90-degree kit?
Yup, pretty much. That design keeps things pretty simple, and as a result it's fairly limited: its maximum speed is related to the fastest speed that a single-channel recipe can push an elbow block. (In fact that *is* the limit speed, plus or minus a Doppler shift.)

The only weird tricks in the c/512 Demonoid are the *WSSes used to shoot down old circuitry at the end of the cycle, and the "quick return" elbow recipes, where a return glider is generated at the elbow and the recipe turns it back into a block after waiting for it to travel a long distance. That's one of the things that wouldn't work so well with a QuickSilver recipe, because you can't have empty sections in the recipe tape.

The "quick return" glider trick is also used for a Snark-destroy operation, to remove the temporary 90-degree reflector that Pavgan is talking about. That would be a minor problem, since NOP operations have to be added in a QuickSilver recipe anywhere there's a stretch of empty space in the glider stream.

Ordinarily a "Silver-reflector-destroy" operation equivalent to the Snark-destroy would have to be figured out, but the weird and wonderful thing about overclocked Silver reflectors is that they can destroy themselves with no outside input, the moment that they're not in use any more -- as googleplex showed in the first post of the QuickSilver thread. I don't think you'd even need a 180-degree glider to trigger the destruction.

So the c/512 blueprint could be adapted to a QuickSilver design, without ever having to use 0-degree gliders -- I think.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » December 14th, 2021, 6:32 am

Reviving an old problem:
dvgrn wrote:
February 24th, 2017, 7:12 pm
Rhombic wrote:1) How does apgcode for yl work?
I can't explain all the details, but the apgsearch v1.1 code that generates the yl apgcode is fairly readable. The punchline is

q = deepperiod(difflist, maxperiod, 0)
prehash = str(moments[1]) + "#" + str(moments[2])
return "yl" + str(p) + "_" + str(q) + "_" + str(moments[0]) + "_" + hashlib.md5(prehash).hexdigest()


In other words, the apgcode is the concatenation of the period-but-not-really, the deepperiod return value q*, moment #0, and a hashed version of moments #1 and #2.

There have been previous requests for clarification on this point, I see.

Code: Select all

# Gets the period of an interleaving of degree-d polynomials:
def deepperiod(sequence, maxperiod, degree):

    for p in xrange(1, maxperiod, 1):
        good = True
        for i in xrange(maxperiod):
            diffs = [0] * (degree + 2)
            for j in xrange(degree + 2):
                diffs[j] = sequence[i + j*p]
            # Produce successive differences:
            for j in xrange(degree + 1):
                for k in xrange(degree + 1):
                    diffs[k] = diffs[k] - diffs[k + 1]
            if (diffs[0] != 0):
                good = False
                break
        if (good):
            return p
    return -1

# Analyses a linear-growth pattern, returning a hash:
def linearlyse(maxperiod):
    poplist = [0]*(3*maxperiod)
    for i in xrange(3*maxperiod):
        g.run(1)
        poplist[i] = int(g.getpop())
    p = deepperiod(poplist, maxperiod, 1)
    if (p == -1):
        return "unidentified"
    difflist = [0]*(2*maxperiod)
    for i in xrange(2*maxperiod):
        difflist[i] = poplist[i + p] - poplist[i]
    q = deepperiod(difflist, maxperiod, 0)
    moments = [0, 0, 0]
    for i in xrange(p):
        moments[0] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i])
        moments[1] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i]) ** 2
        moments[2] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i]) ** 3
    prehash = str(moments[1]) + "#" + str(moments[2])
    # Linear-growth patterns with growth rate zero are clearly errors!
    if (moments[0] == 0):
        return "unidentified"
    return "yl" + str(p) + "_" + str(q) + "_" + str(moments[0]) + "_" + hashlib.md5(prehash).hexdigest()
Maybe someone can clarify: moment #0 is often the population change per period, but not always -- not when q>1, possibly?

For yl384_2_342_148fdc95f876989b992da6215c6840eb, for example, q=2, and the population goes up by 340 cells per 384 ticks, but moment #0 shows up as 342.

* q, the return value of the deepperiod() call, seems to be "1" most of the time, occasionally "2", and maybe some higher integer occasionally but not that I've seen.
Looking closer, the population does not simply "goes up by 340 cells per 384 ticks". Each period a beacon is laid on the symmetric axis, whose population fluctuates by 2, and this matters when measuring the pop differences of this puffer before&after 384 ticks. If the beacon is in the ON phase then you get an increment of 172 cells, and if it is OFF then the increment becomes 170. These 2 types of pop differences sum to 342, and I think this is where 2 and 342 come from.

Similar explanations can be made for other cases. Take this census as an OCA example. The underlying mechanism is a p13 gun shooting a p2 spaceship whose pop alternates between 5 and 7, but they appear in different conditions:

#1 is a stand-alone version, so every possible 26-tick interval gives only 1 type of pop diff, that is 5+7=12, hence yl26_1_12;
#2 has two of it connected back-to-back, so every possible 26-tick interval also gives only 1 type of pop diff, that is (5+7)*2=24, hence yl26_1_24;
#3 has two of it shooting face-to-face and making a period-doubled double-barrelled gun, so every possible 26-tick interval gives either of 2 types of pop diff, one is 5*2=10 and another 7*2=14, and 14+10=24, hence yl26_2_24.

For me, it appears so far that the scheme fails only in one linear growth, that is this kaleidoscopic methuselah. The pattern becomes predicable at generation 264,694, after which the backfire glider pairs will be bounced by blocks (as in glider-block cycle) and annihilate with another pair, never catching up with the p589 ark, and therefore the pop cannot be decreasing.

(Bonus tip: the negative term in another irrelevant case oddly makes some sense — when a p12 c/2 wickstretcher gets burnt, it gains 6 cells at the front but loses 12 cells at the back, so the only 1 type of pop diff is 6-12=(-6). But that means apgsearch didn't wait long enough before censusing the ash.)

EDIT: a related challenge in sandbox

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 29, rule = B2-a/S12
8bo40bo$8bo38bobo$10b2o35bobo$7b3o37bo4$55bo$22b3o30b2o$3o4bobo43bo$
23b3o7bo19b2o$b3o4bo21b2obo6b2o$34bo$32bo18bo$32bo18bo5bo$57bo$16b3o
32bo$14b2o40bob2o$17bo17b2o19bo$17bo18bo$33b2o$34bo4$42bo$40bobo$40bob
o$40bo!

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