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Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 13th, 2023, 2:13 pm

by squareroot12621

A trivial example would be empty space—if you put a glider in, it's going to come out and nothing in between is ever needed.
However, you could use any reflector as well, with the same reasoning.
I don't know of any nontrivial examples, though.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 13th, 2023, 2:43 pm

by dvgrn

AlbertArmStain wrote: ↑
June 13th, 2023, 11:59 am
Has anyone built a gun where the period can be adjusted by input gliders?

Technically, yes -- in the sense that any loop-based gun with a "filler pipe" and an appropriate composite period (two or more factors higher than the recovery tiime of the circuitry) can be set up to shoot gliders at different periods depending on what gliders you put in:

Code: Select all

x = 367, y = 158, rule = LifeHistory
226.7BA$229.B.3BA$232.3AB$233.4B$234.4B$235.4B$236.4B$109.2B126.4B$
108.4B126.4B$109.4B126.4B$110.4B126.4B$111.4B126.4B$112.4B126.4B$113.
3BA126.4B$114.3BA126.4B$115.3AB126.4B$116.4B126.4B$117.4B126.4B$118.
4B126.4B$119.4B126.4B$120.4B126.3BA$121.4B126.ABAB$122.4B126.2A2B$
123.4B126.4B$124.4B126.4B$125.4B126.4B$126.4B126.4B$127.4B126.4B$.B
126.4B126.4B$3B126.4B126.4B$BABA126.4B126.4B$.B2AB126.4B126.4B$2.A3B
126.4B126.4B$3.4B126.4B126.4B$4.4B126.4B126.4B$5.4B126.4B126.4B$6.4B
126.4B126.4B$7.4B126.4B126.4B$8.4B126.4B126.4B$9.4B126.4B126.3BA$10.
4B126.4B126.3BA$11.4B126.4B126.3AB$12.4B126.4B126.4B$13.4B126.4B126.
4B$14.4B126.4B126.4B$15.4B126.4B126.4B$16.4B126.3BA126.4B$17.4B126.AB
AB126.4B$18.4B126.2A2B126.4B$19.4B126.4B126.4B$20.4B126.4B126.4B$21.
4B126.4B126.4B$22.4B126.4B126.4B$23.4B126.4B126.4B$24.4B126.4B126.4B$
25.4B126.4B126.4B$26.4B126.4B126.4B$27.4B126.4B126.4B$28.4B126.4B126.
4B$29.4B126.4B126.3BA$30.4B126.4B126.ABAB$31.4B126.4B126.2A2B$32.4B
126.4B126.4B$33.4B126.4B126.4B$34.4B126.4B126.4B$35.4B126.4B126.4B$
36.4B126.4B126.4B$37.4B126.4B126.4B$38.4B126.4B126.4B$39.4B126.4B126.
4B$40.4B126.4B126.4B$41.4B126.4B126.4B$42.4B126.4B126.4B$43.4B126.4B
126.4B$44.4B126.4B126.4B$45.4B126.4B126.4B$46.4B126.4B126.4B$47.4B
126.4B126.4B$48.3BA126.3BA126.3BA$49.3BA126.3BA126.3BA$50.3A127.3AB
126.3A22$67.2A128.2A128.2A$66.B2AB126.B2AB126.B2AB$67.2B6.B121.2B6.B
121.2B6.B$68.2B4.3B121.2B4.5B119.2B4.3B$67.14B6.A109.14B6.A109.14B6.A
$67.14B6.3A107.14B6.3A107.14B6.3A$58.B5.17B9.A97.B5.18B8.A97.B5.17B9.
A$57.25B7.A.A95.26B6.A.A95.25B7.A.A$55.29B5.A.AB92.29B5.A.AB92.29B5.A
.AB$53.B.30B5.A3B89.B.30B5.A3B89.B.30B5.A3B$52.2A32B6.4B86.2A32B6.4B
86.2A32B6.4B$52.2A33B5.6B84.2A33B5.6B84.2A33B5.6B$53.28B3.4B4.7B84.
28B3.4B4.7B84.28B3.4B4.7B$53.3B4.B.16B7.4B2.8B.4B.B77.3B4.B.16B7.4B2.
8B.4B.B77.3B4.B.16B7.4B2.8B.4B.B$64.10B.2B9.17B.B2A87.10B.2B9.17B.B2A
87.10B.2B9.17B.B2A$65.9B13.18B2A88.9B13.18B2A88.9B13.18B2A$62.11B14.
16B.2B86.11B14.16B.2B86.11B14.16B.2B$51.A9.12B14.16B78.A9.12B14.16B
78.A9.12B14.16B$51.3A7.12B14.15B79.3A7.12B14.15B79.3A7.12B14.15B$54.A
2.2A2.11B13.2AB.12B83.A2.2A2.11B13.2AB.12B83.A2.2A2.11B13.2AB.12B$53.
A2.A.A2.8B.4B10.A.AB2.11B82.A2.A.A2.8B.4B10.A.AB2.11B82.A2.A.A2.8B.4B
10.A.AB2.11B$51.A2.2A.B3.7B4.2A10.A5.10B81.A2.2A.B3.7B4.2A10.A5.10B
81.A2.2A.B3.7B4.2A10.A5.10B$51.2A.A2.2B2.7B4.A10.2A5.2B2A6B81.2A.A2.
2B2.7B4.A10.2A5.2B2A6B81.2A.A2.2B2.7B4.A10.2A5.2B2A6B$54.A.BA2B.6B6.
3A13.3B2A6B4.2A78.A.BA2B.6B6.3A13.3B2A6B4.2A78.A.BA2B.6B6.3A13.3B2A6B
4.2A$51.4A.A.A8B8.A14.10B5.A75.4A.A.A8B8.A14.10B5.A75.4A.A.A8B8.A14.
10B5.A$50.A4.A.A.8B23.8B.B2A.A76.A4.A.A.8B23.8B.B2A.A76.A4.A.A.8B23.
8B.B2A.A$50.A.2A2.A4.5B23.7B3.B2AB2A75.A.2A2.A4.5B23.7B3.B2AB2A75.A.
2A2.A4.5B23.7B3.B2AB2A$51.2A.2A4.6B23.6B6.B79.2A.2A4.6B23.6B6.B79.2A.
2A4.6B23.6B6.B$54.B6.6B23.6B4.2A.2A79.B6.6B23.6B4.2A.2A79.B6.6B23.6B
4.2A.2A$51.2AB2AB3.7B23.5B4.A2.2A.A75.2AB2AB3.7B23.5B4.A2.2A.A75.2AB
2AB3.7B23.5B4.A2.2A.A$52.A.2AB.8B23.8B.A.A4.A76.A.2AB.8B23.8B.A.A4.A
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4A75.A5.10B14.A8.8BA.A.4A$50.2A4.6B2A3B13.3A6.6B.2BAB.A78.2A4.6B2A3B
13.3A6.6B.2BAB.A78.2A4.6B2A3B13.3A6.6B.2BAB.A$56.6B2A2B5.2A10.A4.7B2.
2B2.A.2A81.6B2A2B5.2A10.A4.7B2.2B2.A.2A81.6B2A2B5.2A10.A4.7B2.2B2.A.
2A$56.10B5.A10.2A4.7B3.B.2A2.A81.10B5.A10.2A4.7B3.B.2A2.A81.10B5.A10.
2A4.7B3.B.2A2.A$55.11B2.BA.A10.4B.8B2.A.A2.2A81.11B2.BA.A10.4B.8B2.A.
A2.2A81.11B2.BA.A10.4B.8B2.A.A2.2A$55.12B.B2A13.11B2.2A2.A83.12B.B2A
13.11B2.2A2.A83.12B.B2A13.11B2.2A2.A$54.15B14.12B7.A.A79.15B14.12B7.A
.A79.15B14.12B7.A.A$53.16B14.12B8.2A78.16B14.12B8.2A78.16B14.12B8.2A$
50.2B.16B14.11B86.2B.16B14.11B86.2B.16B14.11B$49.2A18B13.9B12.2A74.2A
18B13.9B12.2A74.2A18B13.9B12.2A$49.2AB.17B9.2B.10B11.A75.2AB.17B9.2B.
10B11.A75.2AB.17B9.2B.10B11.A$50.B.4B.8B2.4B7.16B.B4.BA.A76.B.4B.8B2.
4B7.16B.B4.BA.A76.B.4B.8B2.4B7.16B.B4.BA.A$57.7B4.4B3.23B2.B2A84.7B4.
4B3.23B2.B2A84.7B4.4B3.23B2.B2A$58.6B5.32B87.6B5.32B87.6B5.32B$60.4B
6.32B88.4B6.32B88.4B6.32B$62.3BA5.31B90.3BA5.31B90.3BA5.31B$63.BA.A5.
30B91.BA.A5.30B91.BA.A5.30B$64.A.A7.28B92.A.A7.28B92.A.A7.28B$65.A9.
17B5.B.4B92.A9.17B5.B.4B92.A9.17B5.B.4B$66.3A6.14B11.4B92.3A6.14B11.
4B92.3A6.14B11.4B$68.A6.14B12.4B93.A6.14B12.4B93.A6.14B12.4B$79.3B4.
2B14.4B103.3B4.2B14.4B103.3B4.2B14.4B$80.B6.2B14.4B103.B6.2B14.4B103.
B6.2B14.4B$86.B2AB126.B2AB126.B2AB$87.2A128.2A128.2A!

We could certainly build a gun that, say, increases its period by 8 ticks every time a signal glider comes in. That could be done by modifying a sqrtgun mechanism to add a PULL after every PUSH -- plus, presumably, a universal regulator attached to something like a beehive stopper, to suppress the PUSH mechanism once per "INCREASE PERIOD" signal.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 20th, 2023, 1:33 am

by GUYTU6J

Inspired by this soup, I have reduced xs16_c9bk46z311 to 10G:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
9bo$7b2o$8b2o4$4bo$3bo$3b3o3$b2o6bo$o2bo5bobo$b2o6b2o2$13b2o$13bobo$3b
2o8bo$2bo2bo$3b2o2$7bo4b2o$7b2o2b2o$6bobo4bo!

Since my suggestion for downstream synthes[i/e]s report on Catagolue has not been implemented for now, I need to consult the job log to see reduction implications. There are over 200 of those — even after deducting some predecessors to a certain p143 oscillator — which seems nice. However, checking out apgcodes reveals that a number of xs20 and xs22 are pseudo objects, namely simple and boring constellations of a xs16_c9bk46z311 and a distant still life.

My questions are:
1)How many true objects are implied from the xs16_c9bk46z311 update?
2)What technical difficulties would there be to report downstream synthes[i/e]s on Catagolue? *
3)Why are there so many trivial xs16_c9bk46z311-containing constellations? **
4)Could a dangling*** trivial constellation synthesis in 3) be expunged from database? ****

* Not necessarily in the way I proposed, but no client-side scripting dependency allowed.
** Objects like xs16_c9bk46z311 with boat bit are not considered here.
*** i.e. has no downstream implications currently
**** In case a notable future application is found, just upload the constellation synthesis along with the downstream synthesis to justify the former's existence.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 21st, 2023, 10:45 am

by AlbertArmStain

Is there a fast way to convert a blinker-elbow to a honey farm crystallization using binary slow salvos?
EDIT:
Never mind, I found it myself:

Code: Select all

x = 947, y = 939, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o49$52bo$53bo$51b3o49$103bo$104bo$102b3o49$154bo$155bo$153b3o
49$205bo$206bo$204b3o49$256bo$257bo$255b3o49$307bo$308bo$306b3o49$358b
o$359bo$357b3o49$409bo$410bo$408b3o49$460bo$461bo$459b3o49$511bo$512b
o$510b3o49$562bo$563bo$561b3o49$613bo$614bo$612b3o141$762bo$760bobo$761b
2o20$778bo$779bo$777b3o49$829bo$830bo$828b3o49$880bo$881bo$879b3o49$931b
o$932bo$930b3o9b3o2$940bo5bo$940bo5bo$940bo5bo2$942b3o!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 22nd, 2023, 9:48 am

by qqd

Why isn't this p6 LoM hassler known? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, yet it is so simple:

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
17bo2bo$17bo$16bo4bo$15bobo2b2o$13b2obo3$9b2o2bo2bo$5b2o3b2o3b2o$5bo2b
o2b2o3$5bob2o$2o2bobo$o4bo$4bo$bo2bo!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 22nd, 2023, 10:18 am

by hotdogPi

qqd wrote: ↑
June 22nd, 2023, 9:48 am
Why isn't this p6 LoM hassler known? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, yet it is so simple:
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
17bo2bo$17bo$16bo4bo$15bobo2b2o$13b2obo3$9b2o2bo2bo$5b2o3b2o3b2o$5bo2b
o2b2o3$5bob2o$2o2bobo$o4bo$4bo$bo2bo!

It's in jslife.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 22nd, 2023, 11:38 pm

by Drelectron8

dvgrn wrote: ↑
April 23rd, 2023, 7:23 am

Drelectron8 wrote: ↑
April 23rd, 2023, 6:37 am
How do you make a rule recognizble in LifeViewer? For example, if you key in life into the "Change Rule" button, you will get B3/S23. Is it coding or something else? Can someone answer me?
From the LifeViewer article on LifeWiki:

Aliases
LifeViewer contains a large list of alias names for particular rules. This list of rule name aliases can be found by clicking the Aliases button under Help.
A custom code change (i.e., a new build) is needed to add more rule aliases, so this is mostly done in batches, for rules that are commonly used and discussed. One person supplying a name for a rule may or may not result in the name being added as an alias.

I understand that one person supplying a name cannot be added as an alias, but I have seen other people create new rules in the "Rule request thread" using a code. There are also some rules that are missing in the alias i.e "Lifeguard" and "Lifeguard 2" which are both stated in the "List of life-like rules" in the LifeWiki. Please tell me how to make a custom code like that.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 10:52 am

by dvgrn

Drelectron8 wrote: ↑
June 22nd, 2023, 11:38 pm
I have seen other people create new rules in the "Rule request thread" using a code. There are also some rules that are missing in the alias i.e "Lifeguard" and "Lifeguard 2" which are both stated in the "List of life-like rules" in the LifeWiki. Please tell me how to make a custom code like that.

That seems like two different questions. For the "Rule request thread", people are asking for custom-created rule tables. It's kind of confusing to call those "a code", so just call them "rule tables". Here's a starter tutorial on how to create custom rule tables.

Lifeguard 1 and Lifeguard 2 are just names applied by BokaBB for very unclear reasons, for standard Life-like rules that can be supported by Golly without any particular need for an alias. Here's the census for "Lifeguard 1" on Catagolue, and here's the census for "Lifeguard 2" on Catagolue.

Sample LifeGuard 1 pattern (highest period oscillator from the Catagolue page, p30, really just a trivial combination of a p5 and a p6 oscillator -- notice LifeViewer and Golly have no need for the arbitrary name "Lifeguard 1"):

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 7, rule = B48/S234
9b2o$b2o2b4obo$o4bo2bobo$ob3o2b2obo$2o7b2o$o8b2o$2o6b2o!

Highest period oscillator from "Lifeguard 2", p4900, again a trivial combination of lower-period oscillators:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 14, rule = B3/S4567
6b2o$4b6o$b10o$5ob2ob2o$2ob3ob4o$b5ob2o$3o2bob2o$8o$b5ob2o$b2ob5o$2b6o
$2b4obo$2b2o$2bo!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 11:58 am

by wirehead

Is it possible for a MxN pattern in a rule with S states to have a period of exactly S^(M*N) ? I know that greater than that is impossible, but is the theoretical limit possible? If this has already been proven, please direct me to the appropriate place.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 12:08 pm

by hotdogPi

wirehead wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 11:58 am
Is it possible for a MxN pattern in a rule with S states to have a period of exactly S^(M*N) ? I know that greater than that is impossible, but is the theoretical limit possible? If this has already been proven, please direct me to the appropriate place.

Not if it's isotropic, as once it gains symmetry, it can't lose it.

Assuming you're referring to a torus, even if it's non-isotropic, once the cells are all the same state, it can't go back.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 12:13 pm

by wirehead

hotdogPi wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 12:08 pm
Not if it's isotropic, as once it gains symmetry, it can't lose it.

Assuming you're referring to a torus, even if it's non-isotropic, once the cells are all the same state, it can't go back.

Ok, then. I was thinking of a custom rule with symmetry:none, to be able to squeeze the maximum possible period out of it. If the maximum is not S^(M*N), then what is it?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 12:23 pm

by dvgrn

wirehead wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 11:58 am
Is it possible for a MxN pattern in a rule with S states to have a period of exactly S^(M*N) ? I know that greater than that is impossible, but is the theoretical limit possible? If this has already been proven, please direct me to the appropriate place.

Clarification: are you asking "for any possible choice of values M and N, can a rule be found that cycles through every possible combination of 5 states in an MxN bounding box?"?

That's a lot trickier than "does there exist a rule that cycles through every possible combination of 5 states in some MxN bounding box?"

With M=N=1, this second question has an easy answer. With N=1, it's maybe still doable with a range-M non-isotropic rule. Maybe with M and N relatively prime there could be some super-clever XOR-based way to do it, though I wouldn't bet on that one.

Other questions:
-- Is this intended to be a bounded rule -- e.g., an MxN torus, not just a rectangular chunk in an infinite universe?
-- What neighborhoods are allowed? Moore neighborhood, von Neumann neighborhood, other possible neighborhoods?
-- When you say "rule", what is the allowable rulespace? We could easily cheat and define a custom anisotropic Larger-than-Life rule with a range bigger than max(M,N). That would certainly work, but it would be a pointless not-really-a-solution, basically hiding all 5(M*N) states in the rule definition.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm

by wirehead

dvgrn wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 12:23 pm
Clarification: are you asking "for any possible choice of values M and N, can a rule be found that cycles through every possible combination of 5 states in an MxN bounding box?"?

That's a lot trickier than "does there exist a rule that cycles through every possible combination of 5 states in some MxN bounding box?"

With M=N=1, this second question has an easy answer. With N=1, it's maybe still doable with a range-M non-isotropic rule. Maybe with M and N relatively prime there could be some super-clever XOR-based way to do it, though I wouldn't bet on that one.

Other questions:
-- Is this intended to be a bounded rule -- e.g., an MxN torus, not just a rectangular chunk in an infinite universe?
-- What neighborhoods are allowed? Moore neighborhood, von Neumann neighborhood, other possible neighborhoods?
-- When you say "rule", what is the allowable rulespace? We could easily cheat and define a custom anisotropic Larger-than-Life rule with a range bigger than max(M,N). That would certainly work, but it would be a pointless not-really-a-solution, basically hiding all 5(M*N) states in the rule definition.

First: it's the letter S, not five. More generalized. I should probably exclude rules with one state though.

Also, a 1x1 box is trivial, as you said, I am looking at things to say, for example, if you had a 2-state (nonisotropic) rule and a 2x2 box, how would you make (or can you make) a p16 oscillator, on a torus or not on a torus. Probably more leaning towards not on a torus.

I was also thinking of range-1 Moore neighborhoods in particular.

So, here is the revised question: For an arbitrary rectangular box patch in a plane, dimensions MxN, can there be a constructed rule using the range-1 Moore neighborhood with S states, and a pattern in that rule that fits in the box, that oscillates with a period of S^(M*N) ?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 1:34 pm

by dvgrn

wirehead wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
First: it's the letter S, not five. More generalized. I should probably exclude rules with one state though.

Oops. Sorry, reading on a small laptop screen, and not looking close enough. I did wonder why it was 5 in particular...

wirehead wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
So, here is the revised question: For an arbitrary rectangular box patch in a plane, dimensions MxN, can there be a constructed rule using the range-1 Moore neighborhood with S states, and a pattern in that rule that fits in the box, that oscillates with a period of S^(M*N) ?

I'm very inclined to guess that the answer is "no", on the grounds that basically you're building a base-S counter with M*N digits, and any reasonable way to do that will require carry operations that affect neighboring digits farther away than range 1.

I didn't want to rule out some clever way of implementing some improbable 2D equivalent of a superpermutation -- but see below...

wirehead wrote: ↑
June 23rd, 2023, 12:54 pm
Probably more leaning towards not on a torus.

Quite possibly we can dispose of the not-a-torus case easily:

- If the MxN oscillator has to have S^(MxN) states, then one of the states is the all-cells-OFF state. Let's call that PHASE0.
- The state following all-OFF MxN has to be some state other than all-OFF MxN. Let's call that phase of the oscillator PHASE1.
- However, a non-toroidal infinite universe has an unbounded number of all-OFF MxN boxes.
- CA rules are deterministic, so all of the all-OFF MxN boxes that overlap with the target box must also go to the same PHASE1.
- The only way that that is possible is if all cells in PHASE1 are the same state.
- Therefore we're going to run into trouble as soon as we've cycled through every all-state-k MxN boxes, for all k in S.

I think the same argument applies on a torus, actually. The "what happens after PHASE0" question has the same exact problem when you consider shifted rectangular areas on the torus.

That puts an extremely low lower bound on the question: we can achieve a period-S oscillator! How much higher we can push the lower bound... is a much more interesting question.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 23rd, 2023, 10:31 pm

by AlbertArmStain

Should I push forward the blueprints for a really large project? I’m talking several billions of cells and more complex than the pi calculator and the 0E0P Metacell combined. Maybe it’s best to wait another 10 years.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 24th, 2023, 11:15 am

by Haycat2009

Is there a blinker puffer that can create the blinkers needed for the 17c/45 reaction? And if yes, can you show me one?

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 24th, 2023, 11:36 am

by dvgrn

Haycat2009 wrote: ↑
June 24th, 2023, 11:15 am
Is there a blinker puffer that can create the blinkers needed for the 17c/45 reaction? And if yes, can you show me one?

Sure -- David Bell built a sample way back before the turn of the 21st century... and posted it before then, too, if we go with the entertainingly pedantic definition where the new century doesn't start until 2001.

Code: Select all

#N puffer for 17c/45 blinker trails
#O David Bell, January 1, 2000
x = 1100, y = 114, rule = B3/S23
82bo$72bobo4b4o$71bobbo4boo$70boo5bo$69bo7b4o$68b4o4bo$67bo4bobb3obbo$
67bobbo5b3o$67bobbo6bo$68bo9b3obo$69b4obo3bobboo$70bo3bo4b3o$71bo9bo$
71bobo5bo$79bobo$70b3o5bo$70boo7bobo$70b3o6bo$81bo$71bobo5b3o$70bobbo
4b3o$70bo7bobo$70bo7boo$71bobboobbo$72b4obboo12boo$78boo11b4o$72b4obbo
11booboo13bo$71bobboobb3o10boo13bo3bo$70bo7bo26bo$70bo3boobboo25bo4bo$
69bob5obboo25b5o$68b3o7bobo$69bob5obboo$70bo3boobbo$70bo7boobboo15boo$
71bobboobboobboo7bo7boo$72b4obboo5bo6bo16b3o$78boobboo7bo7boo$72b4obb
oobboo15boo$71bobboobbo$70bo7boo35b4o$70bo7bobo33b6o$70bobbo4b3o32boob
4o$71bobo5b3o32boo$81bo$70b3o6bo$70boo7bobo12bobbo$70b3o5bo14bo$79bobo
11bo3bo$71bobo5bo13b4o13bo$71bo9bo27bo114bo85bo366bo366bo$14bobo53bo3b
o4b3o27b3o111bobo86bo277b3o82bobbo85bo278bobo$7bo5bobbo52b4obo3bobboo
139b3o82bo4bo18bo86bo85boo83boboo17bo64bobbo105bo86boo83b4o82bobbo$4b
4o4boo54bo9b3obo73b3o63bobbo17boo62bo22bobo85boo83booboo81bo20bo64bobb
o17bobo62bo22boo85bobo82booboo16bo64bo$4boo5bo37b5o6boo5bobbo6bo145b3o
17b3o63bo18bo4bo85boo87bo14b3o64b3o16b4o63boboo15bobboo81bob4o87bo83b
oobo14b3o64b3o16b4o$bbo7b4o35bo4bo3bo4bo3bobbo5b3o76bo3boo57boo5bo16bo
3boo56boo4bobo14boboobbo62boo15boo4b3o16bo60boo5bobo13bo3bo33bo24boo5b
o20bo57boo5bo17boobbo56b3o3boo15bob6o60bobo15booboo3bo15b3o34bo24boo7b
o13bobobo58boo5bo20bo$bb4o3bo4bo34bo7bo9bo4bobb3obbo76bo3bo29bobo23bo
bbo25boo55bobboo3bo15bobbobobo17bo35boo5b3o16b5obo16b3o33b3o23bo7bo14b
o3bo33bo24bo23boobobo55bo3bo19boo3bobo54b5o3bo16b5obo17bo34b3o5bobo15b
o7bo15bobbo33bo24bo7bo14boobboo31boo23bobbo21bobboboo$bo7bobbo26b3o8bo
3bobbo5bo4b4o4bo77bobboobbo19boo8bobo24b4o19boo5bo29bo23bo5bo24bo17bob
o33boo6bo19b5o16bobboo59bo20boo4bo21bo9bo25b3o21b3obboo18bo8booboo22b
oobbo18bobo4bo18bo11bo23boobbobo24bo16booboo59bo21bo4bo32bo25bo20b3obb
3o20bo8b3o24b3o20bo$3obbo3bobbo25b5o9bo4b6o6bo7b4o73bobbo4bo17bo10bobo
24bobo19b3o22b3o9bobo23bo3boo18bo22booboo32boo4b3o22bo17boobboo59bo22b
obboo19bobo7boo28bo20boo3boo17bobbo34boboo21bo21b3o9bo25b6o41booboo38b
obo22boo16b3o3bo20bo37bo20boobbobbo17boobo37bo19bo7bo16bobbo7b3o$b3o6b
o26boob3o27boo5bo79bo4bo17b3obo38boo15b3o22bobbo8bo26b3o20bo26bo31boo
5boo20boo22booboo18b3o7boo26boo21bo3b3o17boobo7b3o24boob3o18boo4bo17b
oob3o6bo46bo3bo21bobbo32b7o46bo31bo27b3o21boobboo18b3o7boo26bobo21bob
oobo17boo8bobbo24bo4boo16bo6bo16b3o3bo5boo$bbo8b4obo21boo31bobbo4boo
76booboo22boo4bobbo20bo25b3o25bo10bo20b3o7bo14b4obo23bobo20bo9boo5bo
18booboo21bobbobo16bobbo7boo26boboboo19bo5bo15bo9bobbo24b4oboo17b3obbo
18bobb3o5boo21boo8bo14bo3bo34bo22b3obo19bobb4o22boboo18b3o7b3o3bo24boo
20boboobo16bobbo6bobbo24booboboo18booboo22boo4bobbo24bo5bo16bo3bo20boo
11bo$3b3obo4bo3bo55bobo4b4o72bo24bo4bo5boo21boo9bo14b3o21bo13bo23bo5bo
bbo13b3obboo23boboo17b3o13booboo14b5obboo16boobo5bo15boobboo5boo25bobb
oobo16bobboo5bo12b3o3b3o4boo20boo5boobbo17b4o23boboo4boo20bobo7bobo14b
oboo24boboo19bo8bobo5bobbo9booboobb3obo21booboo17bobbo12bo3boo17b4o17b
oobob3obo14b5obo5boo20bo4b4obbo16boo23boobboo5boo20b3o8boo15bo3bo19boo
bbo7boo$3bobboo5bo68bo72bobbo20bobboobo27bobo6b4o18boo18bo3b5o17b3o8bo
6b3o9b4o7boo17boobo3bobo15bobboo13booboo6boobo5bo22boobboobobo15bobbob
o15boo9b3o3bo3bo18booboo20bobbo30boo5bobbo16bobbo20boo4boo28bo6bobbo
15b5o17b3obbo3bo17b3o15bobo10b6o5bo16b3o7bo15bo3bo23bo3boo4bobo3bo15bo
3b3oboboo14b4oboo26boo6b3o17boo7boo14b4o31bo5boboo16bo22b3o6bo$4b3o6bo
bo12boo11bo114b3o20bo5bo19bo16boo12boo5bobo18bo3bob3o16bo3bo15bo8bo5bo
5bobbo15boo5b4o15b3obo13booboo5b6o6bo4bo15bobobb5o18bobo13bo14bo29bo3b
oboo16booboo26bo7bobo18boboo18boo5boo17b3o15bo13boo5boboo21bo4bo15boo
bbo14b3o6b3oboobo5bobbo18bo3boobo20bo12bo3bo10bo27bo3bo4bo47bobo28b3o
20bo4bo28bo7bo13bo7boo18bobboob3o$6bo20b4o10boo107boo6bo20b5obo18b3o
26boobbo5bobo17b4obo3bo15bo3boo23boo5bo5b3o14b3obbo20booboboo15bo6bobo
3bo7bobbo22bobo42bo4bo13bo10boo28booboo20boo28b3o6bo20bob3o19bobbo25b
4oboo4bobo16bo4boo3bo15bo3boo23boo4bo5bobbo14bo3bo4b3o14boo3boo14b3o5b
o5bo6booboo12bo8bo3bo19bo14bo5boo17bo11boo28boob3o18b3o27b4o5b3o19boob
oobo$4bo7b3o11booboo10bobo104boobo24boobo3bo19boobo24boboobbo6bo9bo6bo
boo4boo6bo9bo12bo15bo4boo7boo14bobobbo3bo16bobbo25bobo3bo8b3o7bo4b3o9b
o5bo8bo3bobbo6bo7b3o3boo7bo5booboo10bobo25bobbo22boobo24boboobbo16bo6b
obo5boo6bo10bo3bo7bo16bobbo9bo16bo4bobbo17boo27bobbo10bobo7bo5bo4boo
10bo7bo5bo8bo13boobo3bo8b3o12boo10bo14boo21bo3bobo17bo6bo3bobo16bo7bo
3bobbo7bo11bobbo7bo17boboobo24bobo5bo$4bobo5boo13boo47b3o31b3o14bo16b
3oboo17b3o5b3ob4o7b3o9boo9b3o15boo21bo6booboo11bo9bobbo9bo14bobboo19b
3o3bo3bobo10b3o6b6o8b3o12boo4bo19bo3bo18bo8boobbo9bo12boo4bo3bo15b3obb
o17b3o5boo4boo7b3o10boo8b3o15bo22bo6bo3bob3o7bo10bo11bo15boo21b3o4boo
3bo10b3o7b3o10b3o13b3obbo19bo4boobooboo10bo7bo4bo9bo13boo4boo17b3obbo
17b3o6b3ob3o7b3o11bo8b3o15bobboo18bo7boobboo9bo10bo11bo15boo21b3o4boo
bbo11b3o$3bo8b3o111bo21boobo24boobo3bo19boobo24boboobbo6bo9bo6boboo4b
oo6bo9bo12bo15bo4boo7boo14bobobbo3bo16bobbo25bobo3bo8b3o7bo4b3o9bo5bo
8bo3bobbo6bo7b3o3boo7bo5booboo10bobo25bobbo22boobo24boboobbo16bo6bobo
5boo6bo10bo3bo7bo16bobbo9bo16bo4bobbo17boo27bobbo10bobo7bo5bo4boo10bo
7bo5bo8bo13boobo3bo8b3o12boo10bo14boo21bo3bobo17bo6bo3bobo16bo7bo3bobb
o7bo11bobbo7bo17boboobo24bobo5bo$4bobo119b3o21boo6bo20b5obo18b3o26boo
bbo5bobo17b4obo3bo15bo3boo23boo5bo5b3o14b3obbo20booboboo15bo6bobo3bo7b
obbo22bobo42bo4bo13bo10boo28booboo20boo28b3o6bo20bob3o19bobbo25b4oboo
4bobo16bo4boo3bo15bo3boo23boo4bo5bobbo14bo3bo4b3o14boo3boo14b3o5bo5bo
6booboo12bo8bo3bo19bo14bo5boo17bo11boo28boob3o18b3o27b4o5b3o19booboobo
$4bo8bobo23bo116b3o20bo5bo19bo16boo12boo5bobo18bo3bob3o16bo3bo15bo8bo
5bo5bobbo15boo5b4o15b3obo13booboo5b6o6bo4bo15bobobb5o18bobo13bo14bo29b
o3boboo16booboo26bo7bobo18boboo18boo5boo17b3o15bo13boo5boboo21bo4bo15b
oobbo14b3o6b3oboobo5bobbo18bo3boobo20bo12bo3bo10bo27bo3bo4bo47bobo28b
3o20bo4bo28bo7bo13bo7boo18bobboob3o$6bo5bobbo24boo5b6o73bo28bobbo20bo
bboobo27bobo6b4o18boo18bo3b5o17b3o8bo6b3o9b4o7boo17boobo3bobo15bobboo
13booboo6boobo5bo22boobboobobo15bobbobo15boo9b3o3bo3bo18booboo20bobbo
30boo5bobbo16bobbo20boo4boo28bo6bobbo15b5o17b3obbo3bo17b3o15bobo10b6o
5bo16b3o7bo15bo3bo23bo3boo4bobo3bo15bo3b3oboboo14b4oboo26boo6b3o17boo
7boo14b4o31bo5boboo16bo22b3o6bo$4b3o5bo26b3o5bo5bo70bo3bo26bo24bo4bo5b
oo21boo9bo14b3o21bo13bo23bo5bobbo13b3obboo23boboo17b3o13booboo14b5obb
oo16boobo5bo15boobboo5boo25bobboobo16bobboo5bo12b3o3b3o4boo20boo5boobb
o17b4o23boboo4boo20bobo7bobo14boboo24boboo19bo8bobo5bobbo9booboobb3obo
21booboo17bobbo12bo3boo17b4o17boobob3obo14b5obo5boo20bo4b4obbo16boo23b
oobboo5boo20b3o8boo15bo3bo19boobbo7boo$3b3o5bobbo32bo75bo33booboo22boo
4bobbo20bo25b3o25bo10bo20b3o7bo14b4obo23bobo20bo9boo5bo18booboo21bobbo
bo16bobbo7boo26boboboo19bo5bo15bo9bobbo24b4oboo17b3obbo18bobb3o5boo21b
oo8bo14bo3bo34bo22b3obo19bobb4o22boboo18b3o7b3o3bo24boo20boboobo16bobb
o6bobbo24booboboo18booboo22boo4bobbo24bo5bo16bo3bo20boo11bo$4boo5boo
35bo4bo69bo4bo28bo4bo17b3obo38boo15b3o22bobbo8bo26b3o20bo26bo31boo5boo
20boo22booboo18b3o7boo26boo21bo3b3o17boobo7b3o24boob3o18boo4bo17boob3o
6bo46bo3bo21bobbo32b7o46bo31bo27b3o21boobboo18b3o7boo26bobo21boboobo
17boo8bobbo24bo4boo16bo6bo16b3o3bo5boo$5boobbobo38boo71b5o15boo9bobbo
4bo17bo10bobo24bobo19b3o22b3o9bobo23bo3boo18bo22booboo32boo4b3o22bo17b
oobboo59bo22bobboo19bobo7boo28bo20boo3boo17bobbo34boboo21bo21b3o9bo25b
6o41booboo38bobo22boo16b3o3bo20bo37bo20boobbobbo17boobo37bo19bo7bo16bo
bbo7b3o$6boobobo5boo10boo105b3o3boob4o5bobboobbo19boo8bobo24b4o19boo5b
o29bo23bo5bo24bo17bobo33boo6bo19b5o16bobboo59bo20boo4bo21bo9bo25b3o21b
3obboo18bo8booboo22boobbo18bobo4bo18bo11bo23boobbobo24bo16booboo59bo
21bo4bo32bo25bo20b3obb3o20bo8b3o24b3o20bo$11bo4b4o9boo9bo94b5o3b6o8bo
3bo29bobo23bobbo25boo55bobboo3bo15bobbobobo17bo35boo5b3o16b5obo16b3o
33b3o23bo7bo14bo3bo33bo24bo23boobobo55bo3bo19boo3bobo54b5o3bo16b5obo
17bo34b3o5bobo15bo7bo15bobbo33bo24bo7bo14boobboo31boo23bobbo21bobboboo
$6boobobo3boobboo19bo93boob3o4b4o7bo3boo57boo5bo16bo3boo56boo4bobo14bo
boobbo62boo15boo4b3o16bo60boo5bobo13bo3bo33bo24boo5bo20bo57boo5bo17boo
bbo56b3o3boo15bob6o60bobo15booboo3bo15b3o34bo24boo7bo13bobobo58boo5bo
20bo$5boobbobo4b4o9boo9bo94boo86b3o17b3o63bo18bo4bo85boo87bo14b3o64b3o
16b4o63boboo15bobboo81bob4o87bo83boobo14b3o64b3o16b4o$4boo5bo5boo10boo
125b3o63bobbo17boo62bo22bobo85boo83booboo81bo20bo64bobbo17bobo62bo22b
oo85bobo82booboo16bo64bo$3boobobbobo210b3o82bo4bo18bo86bo85boo83boboo
17bo64bobbo105bo86boo83b4o82bobbo$bbobb3oboboo210bobo86bo277b3o82bobbo
85bo278bobo$bbo8bobbo25b3o181bo85bo366bo366bo$bbobb3obobobbo24b5o$3boo
bobbobo26boob3o$4boo5bobbo24boo$5boobboboo11b4o$6boobobobbo9bo3bo$11bo
12bo$6boobobo13bobbo$5boobbobo$4boo5boo$3b3o5bobbo$4b3o5bo$6bo5bobbo$
4bo8bobo$4bobo$3bo8b3o$4bobo5boo$4bo7b3o$6bo$4b3o6bobo$3bobboo5bo$3b3o
bo4bo3bo$bbo8b4obo$b3o6bo$3obbo3bobbo$bo7bobbo$bb4o3bo4bo$bbo7b4o$4boo
5bo$4b4o4boo$7bo5bobbo$14bobo!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 26th, 2023, 8:03 pm

by BokaBB

dvgrn wrote: It's unclear why did BokaBB name the Lifeguards as such.

I can explain. In the Instinct map mentioned in the original thread (unfortunately unavailable now I think) I was running some multi-rule simulations with CGOL and them and the interactions proved interesting.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 29th, 2023, 1:38 am

by qqd

Is this p1920 oscillator trivial? It doesn't seem so, but on a closer look, it doesn't seem like any cell oscillates at the full period (derived from 51P384):

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
17b2o2bo$13b2o2b2o3bo$13b2o7bo$18b4o3$11b2o$b2o8b2o$2bo$bo$b2o$3bo5b3o
$b3o$o$2o2$16b2o10b2o$10b2obo2bo12bo$14bo11b3o$11b2o13bo$9bo2bo14b2o$
9bo2bo15bo$11bo15bo$17b2o8b2o$17b2o!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: June 30th, 2023, 7:46 pm

by Disaster16439

to mods:I am just an alternative account of HotWheels9232. Last time I didn't understand the forum rules and what is notable, so I ended up putting quite a lot of useless things on the forums. This time, I will be on the forums, but I will only post useful things, and won't go too much on the sandbox, where I seem to be making a lot of posts.

Getting back on topic, I'd like to install JLS. So first question is:Is there a version of JLS that can be used to search in INT rules?

Edit #1 8 hours later: I want to install apgsearch, and have decided to use hacked apgsearch v1(for INT rules). But it keeps giving errors. I am not at my computer, so cannot post the errors. Another question is: How do I split strings into a list in python?

qqd wrote: ↑
June 29th, 2023, 1:38 am
Is this p1920 oscillator trivial? It doesn't seem so, but on a closer look, it doesn't seem like any cell oscillates at the full period (derived from 51P384):
Code: Select all
x = 30, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
17b2o2bo$13b2o2b2o3bo$13b2o7bo$18b4o3$11b2o$b2o8b2o$2bo$bo$b2o$3bo5b3o
$b3o$o$2o2$16b2o10b2o$10b2obo2bo12bo$14bo11b3o$11b2o13bo$9bo2bo14b2o$
9bo2bo15bo$11bo15bo$17b2o8b2o$17b2o!

Yes. The top-right corner is p(5x64)=320, and the bottom-left corner is p(6x64)=384. Because it is just different period-multiplying factory suppressions, it is trivial(because they cannot interact). I hope it is clear enough.
Edit #2 18 hours after last edit:
Is there a reversible range-1 INT rule which actually has a reverse rule? The reverse rule(note that is must also have a reverse rule has to have the Range-1 INT rule as its reverse)can have a custom neighborhood, any range that is not infinity, and even INT LTL rules, which I have a notation for, though it gets quite a lot unwieldier as more complex rules come. Here is the notation:
It is basically the same as hensel notation(I'm getting a little of topic here, but instead of the transitions being letters, it is a string of n hexadecimal digits(where n is ((2*range+1)^2-1)/4) in parentheses. Let's work through an example here, say we want to make a cell be born here:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = LifeSuper
4BA$5B$2BDBA$2BA2B$4BA!

Now if the bottom left corner is on, it will be a 1. But if it is off, it will be a 0. The next step is to work to the left, doing the same thing, 1 if it is on, 0 if it is off. When we hit the left side, we loop back to the right, and move up 1 row. Repeat(also skip over the center cell). The end result should be a binary number with 24 digits. Now we work through all the rotations and reflections with the same procedure, and see which is the smallest. The final step is to turn into hexadecimal, wrap in parentheses, and we're done!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = LifeSuper
ABABA$5B$BAD2B$5B$5B!

We find this is the smallest, so we need to turn 000000000000100000010101 into hexadecimal, so (000815) will be the name of the transition(note we left the left 0s)
Back to the original question, I can prove S8 exists easily. For a range-n reverse rule, draw a sufficiently large(say, 10n though much smaller things should be possible) rectangle in the range 1 rule. Evolve it 1 generation. I will assume the range 1 rule doesn't have s8 and prove by contradiction. Then the center 10n-2x10n-2 patch must die, but if the reverse rule is run on that pattern, the center cells cannot "know" that there are any cells alive(so they won't be born), because the void is too large. But the center cells were on at the start. Contradiction. A similar arguments with these two agars

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
41b17o$8b3o30bobobobobobobobobo$6b3ob3o28b17o$4b3ob3ob3o26bobobobobobo
bobobo$2b3ob3ob3ob3o24b17o$3ob3ob3ob3obo24bobobobobobobobobo$ob3ob3ob
3ob3o24b17o$3ob3ob3ob3o26bobobobobobobobobo$2b3ob3ob3o28b17o$4b3ob3o
30bobobobobobobobobo$6b3o32b17o$41bobobobobobobobobo$41b17o$41bobobobo
bobobobobo$41b17o!

can prove at least one of these statements are true:
The rule contains B8
The rule contains S6i
The rule contains both S4e and S5y
Other agars should probably give even more information, but I haven't tried yet.
Edit 3 quite a while after last edit:
Is this thread dying? Also 2 more agars

Code: Select all

x = 376, y = 87, rule = B3/S23
348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b
28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2b
o2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o$348bo2bo2bo2b
o2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$348b28o64$28o2$28o2$28o!

First shows S2i or B6i
2nd shows S4t or S4e or B7e
Oh right, the checkerboard agar so S4c or B4e
My 1st post!

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: July 10th, 2023, 10:43 am

by Pavgran

Is there a name for the symmetrical pattern arising during the evolution of the pattern below?

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2bo$3bo$b3o4$2o$2o3$6bo$5bobo$5b2o!
#C [[ X -1 Y 6 Z 12 ]]
#C [[ AUTOSTART ]]

I like how it goes wobble-wobble before cleanly dissipating into two gliders.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: July 10th, 2023, 10:58 am

by hotdogPi

It's unnamed as far as I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got a mention and a name in the Lifeline volumes.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: July 10th, 2023, 11:45 am

by dvgrn

hotdogPi wrote: ↑
July 10th, 2023, 10:58 am
It's unnamed as far as I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got a mention and a name in the Lifeline volumes.

I'd like it to have a name, because that might also provide a name in passing for that one-time turner. I was sure I had referred to that OTT at some point as either "boatnblock OTT" or "blocknboat OTT", because that's such an unusually cheap and useful turner -- but I can't find any evidence of prior uses, for some reason.

"Blocknboat OTT pure glider generator" is a bit too painfully long to be a decent name, and "blocknboat OTT PGG" is far too acronymishly obscure.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: July 11th, 2023, 5:32 am

by qqd

Would it be possible to displace a pre-pulsar using stable catalysts in a way that is chainable?
For example, this reaction displaces the pulsar by 6 cells in 29 ticks:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bob2ob2o2b2o$2bobobobo2bo$4bo3bobo$3b2o2b2ob2o3$3o$obo$3o4$3o$o
bo$3o3$3b2o2b2ob2o$4bo3bobo$2bobobobo2bo$bob2ob2o2b2o$bo$2o!

However, is it not chainable, and it is very unlikely to weld catalysts together to make it chainable.
If such a reaction is found, then we could combine it with the loaf spin reaction:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
9b3o$9bobo$9b3o4$9b3o$9bobo$9b3o2$5bo$4bobo3bo$5bo3bobo$8bo2bo$9b2o2$
3bob2o$b3ob2o3b2o$o9b2o$b3ob2o$3bobo$3bobo$4bo!

To make pre-pulsar loops. In theory, it would be possible to make a loop whose period is a multiple of 41, then it is straightforward to convert it into a p41 oscillator, by adding more pre-pulsars. Finding such a chainable reaction in the first place, though, would be very difficult at best or impossible at worst.

Re: Thread for basic questions

Posted: July 18th, 2023, 3:43 pm

by AlbertArmStain

Is there sawtooth 177 but it releases gliders every time the block reaches the end?