Thread for basic questions

[qqd]

Does a p2 sparker exist that can add live cells to a pattern?

[JP21]

Does a p2 sparker exist that can add live cells to a pattern?

Maybe one of these can be considered a p2 sparker? (one clearly isn't a sparker)

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
30b4o$o3b2obo6b2o13bo4bo$b5o8b2o13bo4bo$14b2o11bo3b2o3bo2$2bo9bo4bo14b
o$2bo7b2o3b2o2bo11bo2bo$2bo9b2o5bobo9bo2bo3bo$11bo5bo3bo7bobo2bobo2bob
2o$21bo5bobo6bo2bobo$17b3o12bobobo2bobo$25b2o4bo9b2o$31b2o4bobo$26bo
10b2o$28bo11bo$28bobo$32bo6b2o$32bobo$36bobo$36bo!

[qqd]

Does a p2 sparker exist that can add live cells to a pattern?

Maybe one of these can be considered a p2 sparker? (one clearly isn't a sparker)

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
30b4o$o3b2obo6b2o13bo4bo$b5o8b2o13bo4bo$14b2o11bo3b2o3bo2$2bo9bo4bo14b
o$2bo7b2o3b2o2bo11bo2bo$2bo9b2o5bobo9bo2bo3bo$11bo5bo3bo7bobo2bobo2bob
2o$21bo5bobo6bo2bobo$17b3o12bobobo2bobo$25b2o4bo9b2o$31b2o4bobo$26bo
10b2o$28bo11bo$28bobo$32bo6b2o$32bobo$36bobo$36bo!

That is more like catalyzing with the interior. If you change the active region away from the oscillator, they don't work. Pretty much niche.

[Haycat2009]

1. Since Gliderless guns exist, do Gliderless rakes exist?
2. Are there any c/4d or c/5d tagalong/sidecar-based puffer engines (Like the Schick engine ) where the exhaust can be tamed to form a rake? ( If no, can you show me any tagalong/sidecar-based puffer engine for c/4d or c/5d? )

[EvinZL]

1. Since Gliderless guns exist, do Gliderless rakes exist?

this is a gliderless MWSS rake based on stuff by wwei (aguably the two temp gliders don't count)

Code: Select all

x = 69, y = 156, rule = B3/S23
26bo5bo$25b3o3b3o$24b2obo3bob2o$24b3o5b3o$25b2o5b2o$25b2o5b2o$26bobobo
bo2$26b7o$25bo7bo$27b7o$25bo8bo$27bo2b2o2bo$27bobo2bob2o$25b2o3b3o$28b
3ob4o$28bo6bo$28b2o$27b2ob2o$25b2o3bobo$24bo3bobo$24b2o2bobo$25bob2obo
$24b3obob2o$24bo2b3o2b2o$27b3o$29bo2b2o$24b3o2bobo$23bo$26bo3bo$23b2ob
o2bob2o$26bob2o$24bobobo$27bo$25bo$29b2o$26bo3b2o$31b2o$28b2o2bo$32bo$
30bobo$25b3o$24bo2bo5b2o8b3o3b3o$27bo3b2ob2o7bo2bo2bo2bo$27bo4bo9bo6bo
$24bobo2bo2bo9b2o2bo2bo3bo$29b2ob2o8bo6bo$30bo9b6o4bobo$29b3o8b2o2b2o$
29bo11b2o$28b3o11bo$32bo8b2o$27bo4bo8b2obo$32bo3b3o3b2o$27bob2o5bo2bo$
30bo5bo5b2o$36bo3bo3bo$24bo12bo3bo$23b3o2b3o10b4o$22b2obo13b3o2bo$22b
3o5bo$23b2o3b3o$27b2o2bo$30b2o$27b2o2bo5b2o$26bobo8b3o$28bo9b2o$27b2o$
25b3o16bo$23b2o14bo5bo$23b2obobo2b2o5b2o3b2o$23b3o5b2o7bo2b2o$33bo$31b
o2$29b2o6bo2bo$31bo5b3o$33b2ob4o$34bobo$24b2o8bobo$23bo3bo2$29bo$29b2o
$23bo3b3o$22bobob2o2bo$22bo3bo$26b2o$26bo$20bo2$18bo3bo$22b2o11b2o$19b
o2bo11bo2bo$19b3o13b2o3$54b3o$53bo2bo$29bo22b3o2bo$28bobo20bo4b6o$31bo
18bo2bo4b2o2bo$23b2o6bo15b6o6bo3bo$22bob2o3bobo15bo3bo11bo$21b3o4b3o
14bo3b2o10bo$21b3o4b3o14bobo14bobo$21b2obo16bo3bo13b2obob2o$21b2ob2o
14bobo3bo12b2obobobo$22bobo15bobo16bo2bo3b2o$14bo26bo16b2o2bobo3bo$2b
3o7b4o49bo$bo2bo6b2obobo50b2o$4bo5bobo3b2o$o3bo4b2o3bobo14bo$o3bo5bobo
b2o15bo$4bo6b4o16bo$bobo8bo$27b3o3b3o2$31bo$31bo$31bo2$48b3o$48bo2bo$
46bo4bo$45b2obo2bob3o$46bobo4bo2bo$35b2o4b3o9bo3bo$34bo2bo2bo2bo13bo$
35b2o3bo4bo9bo$39b3o14bobo$38b2o13b2obob2o$38b2o13b2obobobo$53bo2bo3b
2o$52b2o2bobo3bo$59bo$61b2o2$39b3o$38bo2bo$41bo$37bo3bo$21b3o13bo3bo$
21bo2bo16bo$21bo16bobo$21bo3bo$21bo3bo11bo$21bo14b3o$22bobo6bo4bob2o$
6b3o22bo5b3o$5bo2bo22bobo3b3o$8bo28b3o$4bo3bo28b2o$8bo$5bobo!

[dvgrn]

this is a gliderless MWSS rake based on stuff by wwei (aguably the two temp gliders don't count)...

Here are a few other gliderless rakes, that turned up in the Spaceship Discussion Thread (search for "gliderless") --

Code: Select all

x = 71, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
55b2o$45b4o5b2ob4o$38bo5b6o5b6o$36bo3bo2b2ob4o6b4o$35bo8b2o$7b4o24bo4b
o$6b6o23b5o$5b2ob4o$6b2o39b2o$47b3o$45b2o2b2o$28bob2o12b2o4bobo$28b5o
12bobo$6o26b2o12b2o3b2o$o5b4o8bo14b2o$o5bob2o6b4o2b3o5b4o3bo23b4o$bo3b
o2b2o5bo3bo4bo4b2obo3bobo10bo10bo3bo$3bo14bo10b3o4bobo9bobo13bo$2b2o
11b2o20bo10bobo9bo2bo$b4o44bo$2ob2o5b2o26bo$b2o5bo4bo22bo3bo$7bo27bo$
7bo5bo21bo4bo$7b6o22b5o32$14bo$12bo3bo$11bo$11bo4bo$11b5o4$6o$o5bo$o5b
o$bo3bo$3bo$2b2o$b4o$2ob2o61b2o$b2o62b2ob3o$9b5o52b5o$9bo4bo44b3o5b3o$
9bo48b5o$10bo3bo42b2ob3o$12bo14b4o27b2o$26b6o$25b2ob4o$26b2o!

I wanted to dig up a gliderless Corderrake, and I suspect there are probably some out there, but most of them contain sneaky temporary gliders like the ones that EvinZL didn't count:

Code: Select all

#O #5. David Bell, 19 Jun '05
#C from jslife -- rakes-c12d-ss.lif
#C p96 c/12 diagonal spaceship rakes
x = 133, y = 87, rule = B3/S23
35b3o$35bobo$35bobo14b2o$35bo4b2o9bo2bo$34b3o3b2o10b3o$40bo12b2o$36b4o
13bo$37b2o12bob2o$37bo13b4o$51bobobo$25b3o10bo13b2ob2o3b2o$36bobo12bo
3bo4b2o10bo$29b2o4b4o13b3o16b3o15bo$31bo3b3o15bo16b2ob2o14bo$25b4obo6b
o31b2o3bo7b4o3bo$25b5o40bobobobo5bo3bo$34bo36b2obo2bo4b2o3bo$34bo39b2o
bo7b3o$25bobo6bo19bo20b2o10b2obo6b2o$25bobo24bo2bo32b3o6b2o$26bo25bobo
17bo16bo$25bobo25bo18bo$26b2o$26bo70b2o$97bobo$97bo3b3o$97bobo3b4o$97b
obo3b4o$96b3ob3o$97b2o$47b2o28b2o13b2o$48bo28b2o13b2o$30b2o13b3o34b3o$
30b2o13bo35bob2o6bo$64b3o14bob2o5bobo$63bo3bo22bobo$62bo4bo15bobo17b2o
$62bo2bobo15b2o19bo2bo4bo$55b2o5b2obobo15bo17bo2b3obo2bobo$56bo7b2obo
2bo30bo2bo4b4o$38b2o13b3o10b2o2bo30bo2bo$38b2o13bo13b3o34bo6bo$103b2ob
o$24bo3b2o2b2obo75bo11b2o$24bo3b2o4bob2o71b2o12b2o$24bo3b2o2b2ob2o$28b
2o33b2o$26bo2bo34bo$26bobo32b3o$5bo21bo33bo$6bob2obobo$3o3b4o3bo117b2o
$6bo2b2ob2o117b2o$5bo66bo47bo$3b3o65bobo46bobo$3b3o66bo31bo2bo12b3o$
24b3o42b3o33b3ob3o10bo$23bo2bo42bo35b2obobo$23bo83b3o$23bo2bo69b2o10b
2o$23bo2bo72b2o4bo$25b3o52bo15b2ob4o3bo$24bobo52bobo11b5o4b4o$24bo55bo
15b3o6bo$26bo50b3o17bo$20b3o4b2o48bo18b3o$19bob2o6bo73bo$5bob2ob2o7bob
2o5b2o73bo$4b5o2b2o7b3obo3bo$4bo2b3obo8b2o5bo60bo$10bo12bo2b2o59bobo$
23b2obo3b2o56bo$25bo59b3o$85bo2$11b2o$11b2o$115b2o$22bo90b2ob2o$22bo
90b4o$23bo90b2o2$22b2o$20bo2bobo$20bo4bo$20bo$21b3o!

[EvinZL]

I wanted to dig up a gliderless Corderrake, and I suspect there are probably some out there, but most of them contain sneaky temporary gliders like the ones that EvinZL didn't count:

Code: Select all

#O #5. David Bell, 19 Jun '05
#C from jslife -- rakes-c12d-ss.lif
#C p96 c/12 diagonal spaceship rakes
x = 133, y = 87, rule = B3/S23
35b3o$35bobo$35bobo14b2o$35bo4b2o9bo2bo$34b3o3b2o10b3o$40bo12b2o$36b4o
13bo$37b2o12bob2o$37bo13b4o$51bobobo$25b3o10bo13b2ob2o3b2o$36bobo12bo
3bo4b2o10bo$29b2o4b4o13b3o16b3o15bo$31bo3b3o15bo16b2ob2o14bo$25b4obo6b
o31b2o3bo7b4o3bo$25b5o40bobobobo5bo3bo$34bo36b2obo2bo4b2o3bo$34bo39b2o
bo7b3o$25bobo6bo19bo20b2o10b2obo6b2o$25bobo24bo2bo32b3o6b2o$26bo25bobo
17bo16bo$25bobo25bo18bo$26b2o$26bo70b2o$97bobo$97bo3b3o$97bobo3b4o$97b
obo3b4o$96b3ob3o$97b2o$47b2o28b2o13b2o$48bo28b2o13b2o$30b2o13b3o34b3o$
30b2o13bo35bob2o6bo$64b3o14bob2o5bobo$63bo3bo22bobo$62bo4bo15bobo17b2o
$62bo2bobo15b2o19bo2bo4bo$55b2o5b2obobo15bo17bo2b3obo2bobo$56bo7b2obo
2bo30bo2bo4b4o$38b2o13b3o10b2o2bo30bo2bo$38b2o13bo13b3o34bo6bo$103b2ob
o$24bo3b2o2b2obo75bo11b2o$24bo3b2o4bob2o71b2o12b2o$24bo3b2o2b2ob2o$28b
2o33b2o$26bo2bo34bo$26bobo32b3o$5bo21bo33bo$6bob2obobo$3o3b4o3bo117b2o
$6bo2b2ob2o117b2o$5bo66bo47bo$3b3o65bobo46bobo$3b3o66bo31bo2bo12b3o$
24b3o42b3o33b3ob3o10bo$23bo2bo42bo35b2obobo$23bo83b3o$23bo2bo69b2o10b
2o$23bo2bo72b2o4bo$25b3o52bo15b2ob4o3bo$24bobo52bobo11b5o4b4o$24bo55bo
15b3o6bo$26bo50b3o17bo$20b3o4b2o48bo18b3o$19bob2o6bo73bo$5bob2ob2o7bob
2o5b2o73bo$4b5o2b2o7b3obo3bo$4bo2b3obo8b2o5bo60bo$10bo12bo2b2o59bobo$
23b2obo3b2o56bo$25bo59b3o$85bo2$11b2o$11b2o$115b2o$22bo90b2ob2o$22bo
90b4o$23bo90b2o2$22b2o$20bo2bobo$20bo4bo$20bo$21b3o!

I promise that no sneaky gliders got into this one

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 174, rule = B3/S23
54b3o$52bo$37bo13b2o$37bo11bo2bo$37bo11bobo$51bo$36bo14b2o$35bobo13bob
o$28b2o8bo11b2o14bo$28b2o5bo2bo14b2o10bobo$36bob2o12bo11b2ob2o$38b3o
23b2ob2o$35b2ob2o27b3o$35b2o2bo9b2o12bo3b3o$36b3o10b2o11bo4b3o$37bo23b
o5b2o$66b3o$66b2o$65b2o$50b2o2$49b3o14bo$49bobo13b3o$64bo3bo$49bo13b2o
$49b2o13b2o$49b2o2$50b2o$49b3o29bo$51b3o26bobo$53bo26bobo$79bo2bo$52b
3o6b2o16bobo$54bo6b2o15bo$52b3o23b2o$64b2o13bo$64b2o$91bo$90b3o$81bo7b
o2b2o$53b2o25bobo6b2o2b2o$53b2o25bo11b2o$80bo7b5o$56b2o22bo6b2o$56b2o
22b2o5bo2bo$74b2o5bo6b2o$62bobo9b2o5b3o$62bobo$61bo$61bo$61b2ob2o23b3o
$64b2o23bobo$66b2o23bo$66b2o20bo2bo$88bobo$87b3o$86b2o$85b2o4b3o$56b2o
28b2o$57bo$57bobo14b2o$58b2o14b2o3$77bo$76b7o3b2o$48b2o26b2o4bo3b2o$
49bo28b2obo$49bobo25bo$50b2o25bo2bo$77bo2bo$78b3o$78b2o$78b2o$40b2o36b
2o$41bo$41bobo$42b2o5$32b2o$33bo$33bobo$34b2o5$24b2o19bo$25bo19b2o19b
4o3b2o$25bobo15b5o17bo6bo2bob3o$26bobo19bo16b5o2bo2bo$27bo14bo5b2o22bo
2bo$45b2ob3o22bo$40b2o2b2obobo5b2o17bobo$41b2o2bo2bo6b2o18bo$16b2o27b
2o$17bo23bob2o$17bobo21bo$18bobo63b3o$19bo64bo2bo$83bo4bo$47b2o34b3o2b
o$47b2o8bobo22bo5bo$8b2o46bo3bo20b7o$9bo45bo4bo7b3o10bo$9bobo43bo4bo6b
4o3b2o5bo$10bobo42bo3bo6bo4bo3b2o5b2o$11bo44bo2bo7b2ob2o$68b4o$70bo$
84bo$2o81bobo$bo81bob2o$bobo81b2o$2bobo78b3o$3bo80bo$80bo2bo$79bo6bo$
79bo6bo$79b3o4bo2$12bo$12b2o19b4o3b2o$10b5o17bo6bo2bob3o$15bo16b5o2bo
2bo$9bo5b2o22bo2bo$12b2ob3o22bo39b2o$7b2o2b2obobo5b2o17bobo36b2o$8b2o
2bo2bo6b2o18bo$12b2o56bo$8bob2o57b2o$8bo60bo$51b3o14bo$51bo2bo12bo2bo$
50bo4bo11bo$14b2o34b3o2bo11bo$14b2o8bobo22bo5bo$23bo3bo20b7o$22bo4bo7b
3o10bo$22bo4bo6b4o3b2o5bo$22bo3bo6bo4bo3b2o5b2o$23bo2bo7b2ob2o$35b4o$
37bo$51bo$50bobo$50bob2o$52b2o$50b3o$51bo$47bo2bo$46bo6bo$46bo6bo$46b
3o4bo7$47b2o$47b2o2$37bo$36b2o$36bo$35bo$34bo2bo$34bo$34bo!

[wirehead]

I'm trying to run apgsearch-2017-8-07-v0.54+0.32i.py, but it returns module not found for urllib2.

That’s probably an old Python 2 version from the sounds of it, and urllib2 isn’t included in the standard library (afaik it still isn’t).

EDIT: urllib2 SHOULD be included with python2, not sure why it isn't. You can try downloading urllib2 from the python 2.7.18 source tree and putting it next to apgsearch.py.

[MathAndCode]

Are there any finite phoenixes where some of the deaths are from overpopulation? (Venetian blinds is an infinite phoenix where all of the deaths are from overpopulation, but this cannot be the case for finite phoenixes because if the northernmost cell in the northeastern most diagonal dies from overpopulation, the cell immediately to the east would simultaneously be born but would have zero neighbors, and the three cells that helped birth it could not have all been off in the previous generation.)

[Disaster16439]

I'm trying to run apgsearch-2017-8-07-v0.54+0.32i.py, but it returns module not found for urllib2.

That’s probably an old Python 2 version from the sounds of it, and urllib2 isn’t included in the standard library (afaik it still isn’t).

Code: Select all

$ python2 -m pip install urllib2

Ahh. So is there a new Python 3 version? Also, is there a version of JLS compatible with int rules?

[C28]

who discovered CBx37C and when?

[confocaloid]

who discovered CBx37C and when?

I think it was in this post:

While we're celebrating century-related goodness, here's another useless C-to-C. Cannot be made to do anything with the other useless C-to-C I found earlier, but hey, a few more in this class and we might be able to string something together.

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
15bo$14bobo$14bobo$13b2ob3o$2o17bo$2o11b2ob3o$13b2obo$4o$o2bo2$11bo$
10b3o$10bo2bo$12b2o!

[TYCF]

Given an arbitrary number of blocks, is it possible to kill anything with 1 glider ?

From this post:

Quiz2: given an arbitrary number of blocks, is it possible to kill anything with 1G ?

[wirehead]

Ahh. So is there a new Python 3 version?

There is a urllib3 but apgsearch is looking for urllib2 so it won't work.

Please see my edit in the first post too.

Also, is there a version of JLS compatible with int rules?

No idea.

[Disaster16439]

Ahh. So is there a new Python 3 version?

There is a urllib3 but apgsearch is looking for urllib2 so it won't work.

Please see my edit in the first post too.

Also, is there a version of JLS compatible with int rules?

No idea.

I need Python 3 because I have golly 4.2

[wirehead]

I need Python 3 because I have golly 4.2

Well, not sure what to do. I don't know if there is a python3 version of apgsearch.

[dvgrn]

I need Python 3 because I have golly 4.2

Well, not sure what to do. I don't know if there is a python3 version of apgsearch.

Yup, there isn't. Porting the old apgsearch to Python 3 wouldn't be a particularly easy exercise, and more recent versions of apgsearch are so incredibly much faster that that translation task hasn't ever gotten onto anyone's priority list.

[Haycat2009]

Since there is a D8_2 symmetry, a C4_2 and D4_x2 symmetry exists too, right? And also, what isotropic transitions must either all exist simultaneously or none should to preserve C4_2 or D4_x2 symmetry?

[qqd]

If Kok's galaxy has no asymmetric soups, what's the problem with this handmade one? (Originally posted as a troll):

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
o2bo3bo2b2o2bo$6bo6b3o$2bo12bo$b2o3bobobo2bobo$2obob4obo3bo$3bobo9bo$
4obob2obo$obo3b2o5bobo$6bo8bo$2bo9b4o$bo$o3bo2bobobob3o$2bo7bobobo$bo
2bob2obo3bobo$2b2o3bo3bo3bo$o5bob3ob4o!

There's no galaxy already present in the soup.

[confocaloid]

If Kok's galaxy has no asymmetric soups, what's the problem with this handmade one? (Originally posted as a troll):

And you can reverse-engineer it as if it was found by apgsearching?

[qqd]

If Kok's galaxy has no asymmetric soups, what's the problem with this handmade one? (Originally posted as a troll):

And you can reverse-engineer it as if it was found by apgsearching?

Don't know if you can, especially since a random soup seems a bit vague.

[dvgrn]

If Kok's galaxy has no asymmetric soups, what's the problem with this handmade one? ...
There's no galaxy already present in the soup.

It's very easy to find non-symmetrical predecessors of a galaxy. But by common convention, they can't be called "natural" unless the soup has been generated randomly. And the way that we've settled on to ensure that random-looking souplike things are really randomly generated and not trolls, is to require that an SHA-256 preimage of the soup is known.

That's just because of Catagolue's outsized influence on soup searching, of course. We could just as well use iterated SHA-256 to build any MxN soup sizes, or any other equivalent way of making it too computationally difficult to make fake soups, and the ash from those soups would still presumably be considered natural, just as the ash from pre-Catagolue soup experiments is counted as natural.

As a separate basic question -- given the number of C2 and G2 soups, though, I'm kind of surprised that it still takes ten gliders to synthesize a galaxy. Has someone gone through the likely candidates recently with, say, findpreds.py?

[qqd]

What's this semi-common active region that becomes symmetric in 5 ticks? (I have seen it multiple times.)

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$o2bo$2b2o$2bo$3bo!

[hotdogPi]

What's this semi-common active region that becomes symmetric in 5 ticks? (I have seen it multiple times.)

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$o2bo$2b2o$2bo$3bo!

grate

[confocaloid]

Is the small 88P93/83P186 oscillator considered "adjustable"?
Are there stable conduits that can be trivially inserted to increase length of the R/B track to get periods other than 93 or 186?

Code: Select all

#C 88P93
#C https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=133613#p133613
#C https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=133612#p133612
x = 44, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14b2o$36b2o$5b2o20b2o7b2o$5bobo19b2o$6b2o$2b2o$bobo10bo21bo$bo
12b2o19bobo$2o11b2o20bobo$5b2o29bo$5b2o4$19bo$18bobo$19bo2$24bo$23bobo
$24bo4$37b2o$7bo29b2o$6bobo20b2o11b2o$6bobo19b2o12bo$7bo21bo10bobo$40b
2o$36b2o$15b2o19bobo$6b2o7b2o20b2o$6b2o$28b2o$28b2o!

P93 R hassler, completed by iNoMed based on my partial; probably the first engine-based p93 oscillator:

New oscillators continue to roll in. Of note is a p93 R-pentomino hassler, the first engine-based p93. All previous p93 oscillators were formed from adjustable signal loops or an interaction between p3 and p31 sparks.