For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
gameoflifemaniac
Posts: 774
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: There too

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Oh, this wasn't what I thought. Nevermind...
Anyway, what does each of the button colors on Catagolue mean?
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

Majestas32
Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Thread for basic questions

AforAmpere wrote:What are the speed limits for spaceships in B0 rules? Orthogonal is C. I think, but I am not sure that the diagonal speed limit is 3c/4, but what about oblique?
I saw a post about that before but can't find it now

AforAmpere
Posts: 1049
Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Majestas32 wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:What are the speed limits for spaceships in B0 rules? Orthogonal is C. I think, but I am not sure that the diagonal speed limit is 3c/4, but what about oblique?
I saw a post about that before but can't find it now
Well, I thought about it for a bit, this pattern should determine the speed limit, as this expands the fastest possible in all directions, while only half the generations use B1c, to allow spaceships.

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B02e3cjr4a5ay6i7c8/S2ak3acei4cjkrtyz5acijy6aek7e
o!

This shows the diagonal speed limit is 3c/4, and says that (2,1)c/2 is theoretically possible. I hope my logic makes sense. Interestingly, it seems that all slopes greater than 2 have a max speed of (m,n)c/m. I don't know what the formula for the other slopes is though.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)

Majestas32
Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Thread for basic questions

3(m,n)c/2(m+n). Which leads to another question: what's the knightship speed limit in rules where the diagonal speed limit is c/3 (like movostill 3)?

Gamedziner
Posts: 796
Joined: May 30th, 2016, 8:47 pm
Location: Milky Way Galaxy: Planet Earth

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Majestas32 wrote:3(m,n)c/2(m+n). Which leads to another question: what's the knightship speed limit in rules where the diagonal speed limit is c/3 (like movostill 3)?
Hold on. If m=n, then the case reduces to a diagonal, or 3(m,m)c/2(m+m). Consider the ship with a diagonal speed of c/3 (the diagonal speed limit). Then 3(m,m)c/2(2m)=c/3.
3(m,m)c/4m=c/3
9(m,m)c/4m=c
9(m,m)c=4mc
9(m(1,1))c=4mc
9m(1,1)c=4mc
(1,1)c=(4/9)c

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 96, rule = LifeHistory
58.2A$58.2A3$59.2A17.2A$59.2A17.2A3$79.2A$79.2A2$57.A$56.A$56.3A4$27. A$27.A.A$27.2A21$3.2A$3.2A2.2A$7.2A18$7.2A$7.2A2.2A$11.2A11$2A$2A2.2A$4.2A18$4.2A$4.2A2.2A$8.2A!  AforAmpere Posts: 1049 Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm ### Re: Thread for basic questions Gamedziner wrote: 3(m,m)c/4m=c/3 9(m,m)c/4m=c 9(m,m)c=4mc 9(m(1,1))c=4mc 9m(1,1)c=4mc (1,1)c=(4/9)c (1,1)=4/9 (contradiction) You can’t apply the formula to that, the formula only applies to the B0 rules. I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules. Things to work on: - Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule - Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress) gameoflifemaniac Posts: 774 Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am Location: There too ### Re: Thread for basic questions How to add a LifeViewer window on a LifeWiki page? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee... BlinkerSpawn Posts: 1905 Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's ### Re: Thread for basic questions gameoflifemaniac wrote:How to add a LifeViewer window on a LifeWiki page? You could always do what I did and steal one from a page that already has one. LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed] toroidalet Posts: 1019 Joined: August 7th, 2016, 1:48 pm Location: my computer Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions Majestas32 wrote:what's the knightship speed limit in rules where the diagonal speed limit is c/3 Take a look at B2-a345678/S012345678 (I stole this proof from somewhere but I don't remember): Since it has all birth (and survival, but that's not too important) conditions except the ones which allow for faster-than-c/3d, the edges of the octagon advance at the fastest possible speed. To see the speed, we're going to look at the edge. Screen Shot 2017-12-31 at 12.38.41 PM.png (12.05 KiB) Viewed 2515 times Notice that it takes 1 generation for the selected cell to "travel" west and 2 for it to travel north. As a result, the lowest (theoretically) possible period for (a,b) is min(2a+b,a+2b) (The speed is (a,b)c/(min(2a+b,a+2b))). [citation needed] "Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -Terry Pratchett Majestas32 Posts: 524 Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm Location: 'Merica ### Re: Thread for basic questions So then it's: (a,b)c/a, a>=2b, B0 3(a,b)c/(2a+2b), b<a<2b, B0 (a,b)c/(a+b), B2a (a,b)c/(2a+b), B2e; S4w; S5a (sometimes) (a,b)c/(2a+2b), all other rules with B3a and B2c/B3i ? Where a > b. But what's the deal with those rules where no ships from c/2 to c/3 are possible? Last edited by Majestas32 on December 31st, 2017, 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total. Please, stop spam searching Snowflakes. A for awesome Posts: 1901 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions Majestas32 wrote:(a,b)c/(2a+b), S4w (a,b)c/(2a+2b), ~B2a/~S4w It's more complicated than that: B2e (for most but not all other transitions) and S5a (for sufficient other transitions) also allow (a,b)c/(2a+b) speeds. x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt) $$x_1=\eta x$$ $$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$ $$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$ $$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$ http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce AforAmpere Posts: 1049 Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm ### Re: Thread for basic questions We need to figure out some sort of system this works on. I also think (2,1)c/4 is not possible in rules with C/3 diagonal at the speed limit, (2,1)c/5 seems to be that limit. I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules. Things to work on: - Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule - Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress) Majestas32 Posts: 524 Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm Location: 'Merica ### Re: Thread for basic questions It's actually the max not min for the denominator so (2,1)c/5 is the limit Please, stop spam searching Snowflakes. Apple Bottom Posts: 1027 Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions gameoflifemaniac wrote:How to add a LifeViewer window on a LifeWiki page? Template:EmbedViewer might be helpful. If you need more flexibility, you can also use LV:Viewer directly and add the appropriate styling. If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_ Proud member of the Pattern Raiders! Rhombic Posts: 1056 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm ### Re: Thread for basic questions How can we look for both a small engineered and an elementary statorless gun in CGoL? It seems more than feasible enough in both cases! SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite : Rule X3VI what is “sesame oil”? A for awesome Posts: 1901 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions Rhombic wrote:How can we look for both a small engineered and an elementary statorless gun in CGoL? It seems more than feasible enough in both cases! The original form of the P45 glider gun might be what you're looking for -- it's kind of borderline between elementary and engineered, but statorless in any case. Also, on an unrelated note, I've been thinking that it might be worthwhile to have a yearly competition modeled off of Pattern of the Year, but for other cellular automata -- it seems like OCAs are a major component of what's going on on these forums that doesn't get enough recognition. I'm kind of curious what everyone else thinks about that. Maybe like an "OCA Pattern of the Year" or "Rule of the Year" competition, or combined into "OCA Development of the Year"? x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt) $$x_1=\eta x$$ $$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$ $$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$ $$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$ http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce Majestas32 Posts: 524 Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm Location: 'Merica ### Re: Thread for basic questions A for awesome wrote:Also, on an unrelated note, I've been thinking that it might be worthwhile to have a yearly competition modeled off of Pattern of the Year, but for other cellular automata -- it seems like OCAs are a major component of what's going on on these forums that doesn't get enough recognition. I'm kind of curious what everyone else thinks about that. Maybe like an "OCA Pattern of the Year" or "Rule of the Year" competition, or combined into "OCA Development of the Year"? I vote in favor of that (personally I'd nominate AbhpzTa's adjustable spaceship rule) Please, stop spam searching Snowflakes. AforAmpere Posts: 1049 Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm ### Re: Thread for basic questions A for awesome wrote:Also, on an unrelated note, I've been thinking that it might be worthwhile to have a yearly competition modeled off of Pattern of the Year, but for other cellular automata -- it seems like OCAs are a major component of what's going on on these forums that doesn't get enough recognition. I'm kind of curious what everyone else thinks about that. Maybe like an "OCA Pattern of the Year" or "Rule of the Year" competition, or combined into "OCA Development of the Year"? I agree with that idea as well, it would show all the other progress in these forums. I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules. Things to work on: - Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule - Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress) gameoflifemaniac Posts: 774 Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am Location: There too ### Re: Thread for basic questions What's the longest lasting 16x16 die hard known? EDIT: Code: Select all local g = golly() local selection = g.getselrect() while ( true ) do g.new("") g.select(selection) g.randfill(50) g.run(10000) if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then g.reset() count = 0 while ( true ) do g.run(1) count = count+1 if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then if count > 15 then break end else break end end end end g.reset() g.show("Found "..count.."-generation diehard") This script should stop if and only if it finds a diehard that lasts more than 15 generations. But it doesn't work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee... dvgrn Moderator Posts: 5876 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions gameoflifemaniac wrote:What's the longest lasting 16x16 die hard known? No idea. If Catagolue paid attention to these things, I'm sure some really impressive 16x16s would have showed up by now. But paying attention would have slowed apgsearch down a lot, meaning fewer results in other areas. So I guess we should start with simeks' various diehard finds. Or do you mean it has to be 16x16? I guess that's trivial, unless it has to look like a random soup -- Code: Select all #C simeks' 538-tick diehard x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23 b5o$bob3o$2bo$2o$b4o$2bob2o10$15bo! #C [[ AUTOFIT HISTORYFIT ]] gameoflifemaniac wrote:EDIT: ... This script should stop if and only if it finds a diehard that lasts more than 15 generations. But it doesn't work. Good work there, you've almost got it. The "if count > 15 then break end else break end" is a clue. Basically, you're not doing anything different if your count test succeeds. Also, you're only breaking out of the inner while loop, but there's no way for the program to know that it should break out of the outer while loop. If you want to stop after the first find, here's one way: Code: Select all local g = golly() local selection = g.getselrect() while ( true ) do g.new("") g.select(selection) g.randfill(50) g.run(10000) if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then g.reset() count = 0 while ( true ) do g.run(1) count = count+1 if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then g.show("Found "..count.."-generation diehard") if count > 15 then g.reset() g.exit() else break end end end end end Works for me now: Code: Select all x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23 o2bobo3b2o3bo$3b3obob4obo$bo3b3o2b2o$o3b5obo3b2o$2b3o3b2obo$bob7o2bob
2o$o2b5obob3o$bobob11o$2b2o4b3ob3o$obobobo2bo5bo$2obob2ob3ob3o$obob2o
4bobo2bo$2ob2obob3ob3o$2b3o3b2obob2o$3b4o2bo2b2o$b3o2bo2b4o!
If you want to record the pattern somewhere and keep searching, looking for a better "best", then add a "bestsofar" variable, and check

if bestsofar<count then bestsofar=count end

and so forth, saving the starting pattern to another variable, or maybe a separate layer so you can interrupt the script at any time without losing anything.

_zM
Posts: 172
Joined: June 26th, 2016, 3:07 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

dvgrn wrote: snip...

Code: Select all

local g = golly()
local selection = g.getselrect()
while ( true ) do
g.new("")
g.select(selection)
g.randfill(50)
g.run(10000)
if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then
g.reset()
count = 0
while ( true ) do
g.run(1)
count = count+1
if tonumber(g.getpop()) == 0 then
g.show("Found "..count.."-generation diehard")
if count > 15 then
g.reset()
g.exit()
else
break
end
end
end
end
end
...

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obo2b3o4bo2bo$b6o6bo$3bob2o2bobob2o$bo2bo2bo2bo2bobo$4ob2obo2bo2b2o$4b 2ob2obo4bo$6bo3b4obo$2bobob2o3b3o$bob4o2bo2b2obo$7b3ob5o$6b3obo3bo$o2b ob2obo4b3o$bobobo6b2obo$2o2bobob4ob3o$o2b3obob3o2bo$3obo2b8o!  Updating for further results. Creator of multiple rules that may or may not be what you'd expect AforAmpere Posts: 1049 Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm ### Re: Thread for basic questions I downloaded gsearch, and I set it up so it works, but how do I know when the search finishes? I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules. Things to work on: - Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule - Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress) danny Posts: 967 Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm Location: New Jersey, USA Contact: ### Re: Thread for basic questions I posted this in CatForce discussion but I think it should probably be here: I'm really sorry to necrobump this thread, but I'm running the example 1.in and it returns with no 1.rle and no console output. What's going on? I'm not very skilled in C. If you need it, here is the example 1.in: Code: Select all max-gen 100 start-gen 1 num-catalyst 3 stable-interval 10 search-area -8 -8 16 16 pat 2bo$bobo$o3bo$o3bo$o3bo$bobo$2bo! -3 -4 filter 24 b2o$obo$bo 5 -3 filter 30 3o$3o! -9 2
fit-in-width-height 20 3
cat 2o$2o 60 0 0 . cat 2b2o$3bo$3o$o 10 -2 -2 *
output 1.rle
full-report full.rle
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 5876
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Thread for basic questions

321 ticks, turns into the standard 7-bit diehard, and is a 200th cousin to T=337 of diehard658 in Golly's Patterns/Life/Miscellaneous:

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
13bobo$2bo10b2ob2o$bobo3b2o4b2obo$o2bo3bo7bo$bobo3bobo$2bo3b3ob2o$10b
2o7$14b2o$13bo2bo$14b2o6$20bo$19bobo$20bobo$21b2o2$42bobo2b2o2bob2o2bo
$42b10o2bo$42b2o2b2ob2obob4o$10b2o30b2ob2ob4o2b4o$9bo2bo31bob4obobobob
o$10b2o30bo4b2ob2ob2o2bo$44bo2b4obo2b2o$42b2o2b3o3b2o$42bo5bo4b2ob2o$42bobob2ob3obobobo$42b3o2b2o2bobobo$42b3ob3o4b2ob2o$43bobo2b2ob3ob3o$44b2o3b4o2bobo$45b6o3b2o\$42bob2o3b2obobobo!

gameoflifemaniac
Posts: 774
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: There too

### Re: Thread for basic questions

What does each button color on Catagolue mean?
EDIT: OK, I figured out how my script can detect *WSS.

Code: Select all

local g = golly()
g.new("")
g.select({0,0,16,16})
g.randfill(50)
g.run(50000)
g.select({-13000,-13000,26000,26000})
g.cut()
if tonumber(g.getpop()) > 0 then
g.show("Orthogonal spaceship detected!")
g.fit()
end
g.paste(-13000,-13000,"or")
g.setmag(1)
g.select({0,0,16,16})
It cuts the selection where gliders can be and checks if there are any remaining spaceships.
Can someone tell me if it works? *WSS are so rare.
EDIT 2: Oh, it works.