## Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
drc
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Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 4:11 pm
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

A for awesome wrote:
drc wrote:that's not good
Now Chrome blocks as unsafe (which is good because I added an event handler to one of your input fields, which could easily be used for nefarious purposes).
That's probably a good thing. I obviously didn't intend to harm with this link, just wanted to point out that the HTML-on-Catagolue chroniccals reference weren't over
\100\97\110\105

drc
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

ov_s16. I thought this was a 1x256X2_+1 type problem but it seems to be an apgsearch-related flaw.
\100\97\110\105

Saka
Posts: 3138
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Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!  (Check gen 2) Apple Bottom Posts: 1027 Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm Contact: ### Re: Catagolue Oddities That's because I pasted the rule as you posted it here. Catagolue itself (probably) doesn't attempt to do any kind of "normalization" on rules, instead just accepting whatever you feed it. And you're using a different (older) version of the soup search script, and (maybe) a different Golly version as well. If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_ Proud member of the Pattern Raiders! Saka Posts: 3138 Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Apple Bottom wrote: That's because I pasted the rule as you posted it here. Catagolue itself (probably) doesn't attempt to do any kind of "normalization" on rules, instead just accepting whatever you feed it. And you're using a different (older) version of the soup search script, and (maybe) a different Golly version as well. Yes, I still use the nontotalistic rule generator, because for some reason, if I search, say, B2i3/S1e3, it will search B23/S13. Oh and please keep searching! Airy Clave White It Nay Code: Select all x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23 b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)

Apple Bottom
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Another oddity: lists of symmetries for a given rule are limited to 40 symmetries.

For instance, b3s23 fails to list WW25_c.
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

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muzik
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Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

It would be nice if only official symmetries were listed in the first place.

Maybe this could mean that test symmetries would be listed somewhere else?
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

Apple Bottom
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

muzik wrote:It would be nice if only official symmetries were listed in the first place.
I don't think it would be a good idea of suppressing mention of other symmetries altogether (doubly so since Calcyman has explicitely encouraged people to use Catagolue for things other than traditional soup-searching), but I sure could get behind the official ones being marked as such.

(Actually, that could easily be done in the browser extension.)
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

drc
Posts: 1664
Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 4:11 pm
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Another minus sign puffer. It appears this one (and probably the examples in Day & Night posted by muzik earlier in this thread) are caused by the end destabilizing at just the right moment to be counted as a puffer, but also to be dropping in population at the same time.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2-ac3i4a/S12
bbboobobobbobbbb$obboobboooobbobb$
bobboobobbobbooo$obbooboboobbooob$
bboobooobooboobb$bbobbobooobbobbo$
oboboooboobbobob$oooboboooobboboo$
booobobobbbbbooo$bbooobbooobooboo$
boooboboobooobob$bbbboboobbobbobb$
boooboooobobobbb$obbbbbboobobobbo$
boooboobbobobooo$oobobbboobobobbb! \100\97\110\105 drc Posts: 1664 Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 4:11 pm Location: creating useless things in OCA ### Re: Catagolue Oddities That's not good. \100\97\110\105 calcyman Posts: 2127 Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm ### Re: Catagolue Oddities drc wrote:That's not good. Wait, isn't muzik running bootstrap percolation? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_percolation If so, I'd expect xs256s in almost all cases, with a 1/2^14 frequency of xs240s, and a 1/2^29 frequency of xs225s, and a 1/2^30 frequency of xs224s. That is totally consistent with the empirical observations. (Admittedly, I'm not Bollobás, so my estimates may be erroneous; if so, I'll ask him next time I visit one of his parties.) What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic! muzik Posts: 3774 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Catagolue Oddities calcyman wrote:Wait, isn't muzik running bootstrap percolation? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_percolation If so, I'd expect xs256s in almost all cases, with a 1/2^14 frequency of xs240s, and a 1/2^29 frequency of xs225s, and a 1/2^30 frequency of xs224s. That is totally consistent with the empirical observations. (Admittedly, I'm not Bollobás, so my estimates may be erroneous; if so, I'll ask him next time I visit one of his parties.) I'd say the problem's more relating to the fact that every single individual transition is listed in the rulestring without being simplified and it completely breaks the rule listings page. The rule being simulated here is really B2-ac3-i45678/S012345678. Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! Saka Posts: 3138 Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww? Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something. Airy Clave White It Nay Code: Select all x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23 b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)

muzik
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Saka wrote:Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww?
Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something.
It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

calcyman
Posts: 2127
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

muzik wrote:
Saka wrote:Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww?
Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something.
It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
That's the job of the client program, i.e. Aidan F Pierce's 'hacked apgsearch'. Catagolue is permissive by design, allowing arbitrary rules.

Moreover, apgluxe demands that rules be canonical (i.e. no b3s2233223333, or range-1 LtL rules, or any other abominations falling foul of rule2asm's regex checks). I'm about halfway through writing the isotropic backend for apgluxe, after which v4.x will finally dominate all previous versions.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

muzik
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Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Exciting!

I assume that the non-totalistic rules will be automatically corrected to have their transitions set in a specific order so we don't have 53 censuses for a single rule?
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

drc
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Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 4:11 pm
Location: creating useless things in OCA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

calcyman wrote:I'm about halfway through writing the isotropic backend for apgluxe, after which v4.x will finally dominate all previous versions.
Very exciting development! I'm glad to see that we are able to see the haul size, too, it really helps gauge how many soups should be in a haul. 1000000 has worked wonders for my B2-ac3i4a/S12 rule, and I'm excited to see what apgluxe can do in terms of non-totalistic searching.
\100\97\110\105

Saka
Posts: 3138
Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Cant wait for nontotalistic. Hope

Code: Select all

recompile.sh --update
works for me
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o\$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)

A for awesome
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

calcyman wrote:
muzik wrote:It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
That's the job of the client program, i.e. Aidan F Pierce's 'hacked apgsearch'.
Here's a quick patch to do that:

Code: Select all


if g2_8:
g.setalgo("QuickLife")
g.setrule(rulestring)
rulestring = g.getrule()

Insert that code directly following the line consisting solely of a commented string of hyphens in apg_main(). All this really does is tell Golly to canonize the rulestring for it.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

Aidan F. Pierce

toroidalet
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

A haul has been uploaded in the symmetry b3s23/%3Cmarqueee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%20onfocus%3D%22function()%7Balert(%22Q%22)%3B%22%7D%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3Es23-ae4i. Looks like someone wanted to see if drc's html trick worked in the census. Evidently it did not. Strangely, the actual haul doesn't exist.
"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

-Terry Pratchett

drc
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Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 4:11 pm
Location: creating useless things in OCA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

toroidalet wrote:A haul has been uploaded in the symmetry b3s23/%3Cmarqueee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%20onfocus%3D%22function()%7Balert(%22Q%22)%3B%22%7D%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3Es23-ae4i. Looks like someone wanted to see if drc's html trick worked in the census. Evidently it did not. Strangely, the actual haul doesn't exist.
It does http://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/%253Cmarqueee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%2520onfocus%253D%2522function()%257Balert(%2522Q%2522)%253B%2522%257D%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253Es23-ae4i
As well as the lavender dots on the pulsar page.
\100\97\110\105

Apple Bottom
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Apple Bottom wrote:Another oddity: lists of symmetries for a given rule are limited to 40 symmetries.

For instance, b3s23 fails to list WW25_c.
Calcyman seems to have changed this, BTW, and the B3/S23's list of symmetries now lists all 43 that are currently known.
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

calcyman
Posts: 2127
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Catagolue now deletes any census which doesn't abide by the Catagolue naming conventions:

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Catagolue_naming_conventions

I checked beforehand, and only 4 censuses were deleted:
• The marquee census
• 25%
• 75%
• That census which had a space instead of an underscore in the symmetry
This is evident from the census page:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23

Also, /hashsoup officially supports different topologies (although no search programs can deal with them yet):

https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/ ... 0280/b3s23

Again, refer to the naming conventions to incorporate your favourite Golly topology into a Catagolue symmetry string.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

Apple Bottom
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

calcyman wrote:Also, /hashsoup officially supports different topologies (although no search programs can deal with them yet):

https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/ ... 0280/b3s23
So much innovation!

It actually shouldn't be very difficult to modify apgsearch 1.x to support bounded grids, should it? I might try that myself, for testing purposes if nothing else.

EDIT: more difficult than I naively assumed, so I'll leave it to someone more capable for now.
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

muzik
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Location: Scotland

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Inflated censuses aren't correctly bolded.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!