Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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drc
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » August 27th, 2017, 4:10 pm

A for awesome wrote:
drc wrote:that's not good
Now Chrome blocks as unsafe (which is good because I added an event handler to one of your input fields, which could easily be used for nefarious purposes).
That's probably a good thing. I obviously didn't intend to harm with this link, just wanted to point out that the HTML-on-Catagolue chroniccals reference weren't over
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » August 29th, 2017, 5:06 am

ov_s16. I thought this was a 1x256X2_+1 type problem but it seems to be an apgsearch-related flaw.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » August 29th, 2017, 6:25 am

Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » August 29th, 2017, 6:29 am

That's because I pasted the rule as you posted it here. ;)

Catagolue itself (probably) doesn't attempt to do any kind of "normalization" on rules, instead just accepting whatever you feed it. And you're using a different (older) version of the soup search script, and (maybe) a different Golly version as well.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » August 29th, 2017, 6:32 am

Apple Bottom wrote:
That's because I pasted the rule as you posted it here. ;)

Catagolue itself (probably) doesn't attempt to do any kind of "normalization" on rules, instead just accepting whatever you feed it. And you're using a different (older) version of the soup search script, and (maybe) a different Golly version as well.
Yes, I still use the nontotalistic rule generator, because for some reason, if I search, say, B2i3/S1e3, it will search B23/S13.

Oh and please keep searching! :wink:
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » August 29th, 2017, 6:44 pm

Another oddity: lists of symmetries for a given rule are limited to 40 symmetries.

For instance, b3s23 fails to list WW25_c.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » August 29th, 2017, 6:55 pm

It would be nice if only official symmetries were listed in the first place.

Maybe this could mean that test symmetries would be listed somewhere else?
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » August 29th, 2017, 6:57 pm

muzik wrote:It would be nice if only official symmetries were listed in the first place.
I don't think it would be a good idea of suppressing mention of other symmetries altogether (doubly so since Calcyman has explicitely encouraged people to use Catagolue for things other than traditional soup-searching), but I sure could get behind the official ones being marked as such.

(Actually, that could easily be done in the browser extension.)
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » August 31st, 2017, 12:27 am

Another minus sign puffer. It appears this one (and probably the examples in Day & Night posted by muzik earlier in this thread) are caused by the end destabilizing at just the right moment to be counted as a puffer, but also to be dropping in population at the same time.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2-ac3i4a/S12
bbboobobobbobbbb$
obboobboooobbobb$
bobboobobbobbooo$
obbooboboobbooob$
bboobooobooboobb$
bbobbobooobbobbo$
oboboooboobbobob$
oooboboooobboboo$
booobobobbbbbooo$
bbooobbooobooboo$
boooboboobooobob$
bbbboboobbobbobb$
boooboooobobobbb$
obbbbbboobobobbo$
boooboobbobobooo$
oobobbboobobobbb!
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » August 31st, 2017, 6:14 pm

That's not good.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » August 31st, 2017, 6:28 pm

drc wrote:That's not good.
Wait, isn't muzik running bootstrap percolation?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_percolation

If so, I'd expect xs256s in almost all cases, with a 1/2^14 frequency of xs240s, and a 1/2^29 frequency of xs225s, and a 1/2^30 frequency of xs224s. That is totally consistent with the empirical observations.

(Admittedly, I'm not Bollobás, so my estimates may be erroneous; if so, I'll ask him next time I visit one of his parties.)
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » August 31st, 2017, 6:31 pm

calcyman wrote:Wait, isn't muzik running bootstrap percolation?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_percolation

If so, I'd expect xs256s in almost all cases, with a 1/2^14 frequency of xs240s, and a 1/2^29 frequency of xs225s, and a 1/2^30 frequency of xs224s. That is totally consistent with the empirical observations.

(Admittedly, I'm not Bollobás, so my estimates may be erroneous; if so, I'll ask him next time I visit one of his parties.)
I'd say the problem's more relating to the fact that every single individual transition is listed in the rulestring without being simplified and it completely breaks the rule listings page.


The rule being simulated here is really B2-ac3-i45678/S012345678.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » August 31st, 2017, 6:58 pm

Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww?
Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something.
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » August 31st, 2017, 7:04 pm

Saka wrote:Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww?
Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something.
It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » August 31st, 2017, 7:45 pm

muzik wrote:
Saka wrote:Oh come on muzik! B4wwwwwww?
Please remove the troublesome rule names, calcyman, and replace them with something like "Muzik was naughty" or something.
It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
That's the job of the client program, i.e. Aidan F Pierce's 'hacked apgsearch'. Catagolue is permissive by design, allowing arbitrary rules.

Moreover, apgluxe demands that rules be canonical (i.e. no b3s2233223333, or range-1 LtL rules, or any other abominations falling foul of rule2asm's regex checks). I'm about halfway through writing the isotropic backend for apgluxe, after which v4.x will finally dominate all previous versions.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » August 31st, 2017, 7:52 pm

Exciting!

I assume that the non-totalistic rules will be automatically corrected to have their transitions set in a specific order so we don't have 53 censuses for a single rule?
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » August 31st, 2017, 8:23 pm

calcyman wrote:I'm about halfway through writing the isotropic backend for apgluxe, after which v4.x will finally dominate all previous versions.
Very exciting development! I'm glad to see that we are able to see the haul size, too, it really helps gauge how many soups should be in a haul. 1000000 has worked wonders for my B2-ac3i4a/S12 rule, and I'm excited to see what apgluxe can do in terms of non-totalistic searching.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » August 31st, 2017, 8:29 pm

Cant wait for nontotalistic. Hope

Code: Select all

recompile.sh --update
works for me
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by A for awesome » September 1st, 2017, 5:44 pm

calcyman wrote:
muzik wrote:It would be better if catagolue and/or the hacked version of apgsearch were to check the names of rules, and then attempt to simplify them, preferably sorting the transitions into alphabetical order. Since right now you can create multiple different censuses for the same rule.
That's the job of the client program, i.e. Aidan F Pierce's 'hacked apgsearch'.
Here's a quick patch to do that:

Code: Select all

    
    if g2_8:
        g.setalgo("QuickLife")
        g.setrule(rulestring)
        rulestring = g.getrule()
Insert that code directly following the line consisting solely of a commented string of hyphens in apg_main(). All this really does is tell Golly to canonize the rulestring for it.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by toroidalet » September 1st, 2017, 8:38 pm

A haul has been uploaded in the symmetry b3s23/%3Cmarqueee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%20onfocus%3D%22function()%7Balert(%22Q%22)%3B%22%7D%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3Es23-ae4i. Looks like someone wanted to see if drc's html trick worked in the census. Evidently it did not. Strangely, the actual haul doesn't exist.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » September 1st, 2017, 9:01 pm

toroidalet wrote:A haul has been uploaded in the symmetry b3s23/%3Cmarqueee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%20onfocus%3D%22function()%7Balert(%22Q%22)%3B%22%7D%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3E%3Cmarquee%3E%3Cinput%3Es23-ae4i. Looks like someone wanted to see if drc's html trick worked in the census. Evidently it did not. Strangely, the actual haul doesn't exist.
It does http://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/%253Cmarqueee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%2520onfocus%253D%2522function()%257Balert(%2522Q%2522)%253B%2522%257D%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253E%253Cmarquee%253E%253Cinput%253Es23-ae4i
As well as the lavender dots on the pulsar page.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » September 2nd, 2017, 5:37 am

Apple Bottom wrote:Another oddity: lists of symmetries for a given rule are limited to 40 symmetries.

For instance, b3s23 fails to list WW25_c.
Calcyman seems to have changed this, BTW, and the B3/S23's list of symmetries now lists all 43 that are currently known.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » September 2nd, 2017, 4:21 pm

Catagolue now deletes any census which doesn't abide by the Catagolue naming conventions:

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Catagolue_naming_conventions

I checked beforehand, and only 4 censuses were deleted:
  • The marquee census
  • 25%
  • 75%
  • That census which had a space instead of an underscore in the symmetry
This is evident from the census page:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23

Also, /hashsoup officially supports different topologies (although no search programs can deal with them yet):

https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/ ... 0280/b3s23

Again, refer to the naming conventions to incorporate your favourite Golly topology into a Catagolue symmetry string.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » September 2nd, 2017, 5:46 pm

calcyman wrote:Also, /hashsoup officially supports different topologies (although no search programs can deal with them yet):

https://catagolue.appspot.com/hashsoup/ ... 0280/b3s23
So much innovation!

It actually shouldn't be very difficult to modify apgsearch 1.x to support bounded grids, should it? I might try that myself, for testing purposes if nothing else.

EDIT: more difficult than I naively assumed, so I'll leave it to someone more capable for now.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » September 3rd, 2017, 5:43 am

Inflated censuses aren't correctly bolded.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

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