apgsearch v5.0

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etmoonshade
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by etmoonshade » May 9th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Dylan Chen wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 8:09 pm
etmoonshade wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 12:42 pm
62 cores * 1 virtual machine, 62 cores total: ~40k soups/second (s/s)
15 * 4, 60c: ~55k s/s (I think - didn't keep this data specifically)
7 * 8, 56c: ~75k s/s
So with my specific setup (an Epyc 7302 server at 32c/64t, running Hyper-V)
for your reference, the apgsearch running on my WSL / 4600H (6c12t) could reach 8k in single thread, and the multi-thread could reach 60k in total.
some tiny 1c1G server I rent from cloud (with AVX-512) could reach 9k+. you can check https://catagolue.hatsya.com/haul/b3s23 ... oud_Debian
each different number suffix stands for a 1c1G cloud server.

the haul size wouldn't be problem, it is not linear growing with the soup number. And the stability of Catagolue is fairly sound, it withstand 70 tiny server 'attack' in the size of 0.11billion soups.(haul size 53kB)
the interval I set for C1 is usually 2h+, and G1 is 0.5h.
Yup, I'm noticing that (I have a cheapo Azure VM doing ~8k/s,) but the 7302 has a pretty low clock (2.5GHz,) all things considered - I'm more surprised by how poorly the threads scale when they're on a single VM vs. multiples running on the same host. I get the feeling I have some tweaking to do...

As for the haul counts, thanks for the info - sorry if I'm focusing on this too much, I've just read a lot about people breaking stuff and I'm not 100% sure on the unspoken rules for doing something with multiple machines submitting hauls/etc. :)

Also, that haul suffix idea is clever, and I am totally stealing it. Eventually, next time I stop and rebuild everything. :D

Edit: I have powershell scripts now that do most of the build and setup for me on a VM server - would there be an appropriate place to release/post them (and presumably a second build script for a cloud server?) Would that even be useful for anyone?

Dylan Chen
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by Dylan Chen » May 9th, 2021, 9:58 pm

etmoonshade wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 9:32 pm
Edit: I have powershell scripts now that do most of the build and setup for me on a VM server - would there be an appropriate place to release/post them (and presumably a second build script for a cloud server?) Would that even be useful for anyone?
maybe the 'Scripts' sub-forum would suit that, it always good to share and backup, just in case.



From my humble experience of soup searching. the benchmark (of search speed) is mainly decided by the OS plantform. Linux > WSL > Cywin > VM. even different distribution would have 10% speed differency. Debian > Ubuntu.

If possible, it is more efficient for multi-thread machine to do spaceship search (rather than soup search). the soup search now can be do with GPU accelerate. G1 now produce tenfold soups than traditional C1.https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/b3s23/G1
In this morning, a new elementary Knight spaceship has been found. it took 4 months of search and 45k of CPU hours. super mainframes would speed up the search process.
Tools should not be the limit.
Whether your obstacle is a script, an stdin, or Linux environment computing resouces.
check New rules thread for help.

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calcyman
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by calcyman » May 9th, 2021, 10:00 pm

etmoonshade wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 9:32 pm
As for the haul counts, thanks for the info - sorry if I'm focusing on this too much, I've just read a lot about people breaking stuff
There's no need to worry about this. Every Catagolue downtime that's happened in the past has been from searching other cellular automata (not B3/S23).
and I'm not 100% sure on the unspoken rules for doing something with multiple machines submitting hauls/etc. :)
There aren't any unspoken rules. :)

No-one will complain if you submit lots of hauls with reasonable sizes (say, 10M -- 100M soups). If you're submitting 100M-soup hauls, then you'd need about 2000 CPU cores running continually to be able to saturate Catagolue's current safety limit of 'process <= 120 hauls every 12-minute update cycle'. And that doesn't actually cause anything to fail; it just means that the queue of unprocessed hauls will steadily grow.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

etmoonshade
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by etmoonshade » May 9th, 2021, 11:31 pm

Dylan Chen wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 9:58 pm
From my humble experience of soup searching. the benchmark (of search speed) is mainly decided by the OS plantform. Linux > WSL > Cywin > VM. even different distribution would have 10% speed differency. Debian > Ubuntu.
Just a quick little update on this. Because I've been thinking "wow, that's kinda slow," I've been digging around for anything I could do to tune my system. Turns out that Microsoft decided to apply a "balanced" power plan by default to a server OS. I was absolutely livid when I finally figured that out.

On the upside, I went from:

Code: Select all

Overall Average soups/sec: 9217.16925
Total soups/sec: 73737.354
To:

Code: Select all

Overall Average soups/sec: 17471.580625
Total soups/sec: 139772.645
across 8 servers. And now I probably need to re-run tests with higher core counts per machine.

calcyman wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 10:00 pm
There aren't any unspoken rules. :)
And now I know there aren't any unspoken rules. :D
calcyman wrote:
May 9th, 2021, 10:00 pm
No-one will complain if you submit lots of hauls with reasonable sizes (say, 10M -- 100M soups).
That's kind of the guidance I was looking for, ultimately. Thanks again!

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GUYTU6J
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by GUYTU6J » May 14th, 2021, 2:16 am

Suppose I'm piping the output RLE's from an external program to apgsearch with the separator "|". When apgseach pauses searching to upload a haul to catagolue, would the external program be paused as well? If not, for the purpose of some enumeration, part of the results will be lost.

If in the case above I have no prior knowledge about the number of results from an enumeration, how should I define the number of soups per haul?
Why do most natural OCA rules tend to get a diminishing span of interest and go into oblivion, like a lost civilization leaving little records for its beauty and power?

I have been focusing on this rule, now in industrial era:

熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden

Dylan Chen
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by Dylan Chen » May 14th, 2021, 2:54 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 2:16 am
Suppose I'm piping the output RLE's from an external program to apgsearch with the separator "|".
from the humble experience of running ROR_stdin. the apgsearch would not miss any input, thus we can 'assume' in each soup circle, external program would pause until this very soup got searched.

GUYTU6J wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 2:16 am
how should I define the number of soups per haul?
it may depend on various factors, search speed, search efficiency. btw, the haul size of ROR_stdin is so huge that easily exceed 1000kB, the haul size I set is 10000 (the minimal limit of stdin).
Tools should not be the limit.
Whether your obstacle is a script, an stdin, or Linux environment computing resouces.
check New rules thread for help.

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GUYTU6J
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by GUYTU6J » May 14th, 2021, 3:34 am

Dylan Chen wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 2:54 am
GUYTU6J wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 2:16 am
If in the case above I have no prior knowledge about the number of results from an enumeration, how should I define the number of soups per haul?
it may depend on various factors, search speed, search efficiency. btw, the haul size of ROR_stdin is so huge that easily exceed 1000kB, the haul size I set is 10000 (the minimal limit of stdin).
Emm, you're not getting my point. I do not really care about time consumption here. Say the enumeration will yield 10,001 soups containing 25 single object each, and I set 10000 as the number of soups per haul, then the last 25 objects in the last soup will fail to be uploaded. I hope this kind of situation does not happen, but I don't see obvious methods except for uploading objects one by one (which needs bypassing the current minimum size of a haul).

---

Also, what is the current threshold for oversized/pathological patterns, especially linear growth patterns?
Why do most natural OCA rules tend to get a diminishing span of interest and go into oblivion, like a lost civilization leaving little records for its beauty and power?

I have been focusing on this rule, now in industrial era:

熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden

Dylan Chen
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by Dylan Chen » May 14th, 2021, 4:06 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 3:34 am
Say the enumeration will yield 10,001 soups containing 25 single object each, and I set 10000 as the number of soups per haul, then the last 25 objects in the last soup will fail to be uploaded.

the method I use is :

Code: Select all

fill_rle="x = 2, y = 2, rule = B3/S23 \n 2o$2o!"
 #block
use blocks to fill the soup limit (reach 10000)
Tools should not be the limit.
Whether your obstacle is a script, an stdin, or Linux environment computing resouces.
check New rules thread for help.

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LaundryPizza03
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by LaundryPizza03 » May 17th, 2021, 11:19 am

With the latest version of apgsearch, I got a strange error when trying to run a B0 rule:

Code: Select all

Rule b0136s0124 cannot be iterated 1 x 2^0 generations.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
LaundryPizza03 at Wikipedia

The latest edition of new-gliders.db.txt and oscillators.db.txt have 35296 spaceships and 1451 oscillators from outer-totalistic rules. You are invited to help!

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yujh
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by yujh » June 23rd, 2021, 5:56 am

Excuse me, is there a place to tell me how to search for other types of rules like LTL?
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Rule modifier

If you need someone to apgsearch, or if you want to search for an explosive rule, contact me on discord!

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

lemon41625
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by lemon41625 » June 24th, 2021, 5:46 am

yujh wrote:
June 23rd, 2021, 5:56 am
Excuse me, is there a place to tell me how to search for other types of rules like LTL?
Just input the rulestring

Code: Select all

./apgluxe --rule <rulestring> ...
For example, for Minibugs (R2,C2,S6-9,B7-8,NM)

Code: Select all

./apgluxe --rule r2b7t8s7t10 ...
Download CAViewer: https://github.com/jedlimlx/Cellular-Automaton-Viewer

Supports:
BSFKL, Extended Generations, Regenerating Generations, Naive Rules, R1 Moore, R2 Cross and R2 Von Neumann INT
And some others...

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yujh
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by yujh » June 24th, 2021, 5:48 am

lemon41625 wrote:
June 24th, 2021, 5:46 am
yujh wrote:
June 23rd, 2021, 5:56 am
Excuse me, is there a place to tell me how to search for other types of rules like LTL?
Just input the rulestring

Code: Select all

./apgluxe --rule <rulestring> ...
For example, for Minibugs (R2,C2,S6-9,B7-8,NM)

Code: Select all

./apgluxe --rule r2b7t8s7t10 ...
Tried that one. Thanks anyways. What is apgtables? How can I throw them into apgsearch?
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Rule modifier

If you need someone to apgsearch, or if you want to search for an explosive rule, contact me on discord!

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

lemon41625
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by lemon41625 » June 24th, 2021, 6:19 am

yujh wrote:
June 24th, 2021, 5:48 am
Tried that one. Thanks anyways. What is apgtables? How can I throw them into apgsearch?
The apgtable is basically a Golly ruletable but they allow custom neighbourhoods. So for example, I can have an apgtable called Test.rule.
Place the file in the same directory as apgsearch and then

Code: Select all

./apgluxe --rule Test.rule ...
Download CAViewer: https://github.com/jedlimlx/Cellular-Automaton-Viewer

Supports:
BSFKL, Extended Generations, Regenerating Generations, Naive Rules, R1 Moore, R2 Cross and R2 Von Neumann INT
And some others...

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yujh
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by yujh » June 30th, 2021, 8:08 am

Sorry for this again, how do I ./recompile a HROT rule? I don't know what these mean, e.g. g4r2b000008s00000c
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Rule modifier

If you need someone to apgsearch, or if you want to search for an explosive rule, contact me on discord!

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

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LaundryPizza03
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by LaundryPizza03 » July 13th, 2021, 11:35 pm

Apgsearch got stuck while searching B35678/S03678. The only viable explanation is that it's because of a soup containing only a whitespace breeder. I'm not sure why such objects don't get passed as zz_QUADRATIC.

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B35678/S03678
2bo$b3o$5o$b3o$2bo!

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
LaundryPizza03 at Wikipedia

The latest edition of new-gliders.db.txt and oscillators.db.txt have 35296 spaceships and 1451 oscillators from outer-totalistic rules. You are invited to help!

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LaundryPizza03
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by LaundryPizza03 » July 13th, 2021, 11:51 pm

yujh wrote:
June 30th, 2021, 8:08 am
Sorry for this again, how do I ./recompile a HROT rule? I don't know what these mean, e.g. g4r2b000008s00000c
Those six numbers after the b and the s are hexadecimal encodings of the birth and survival conditions, where the nth place represents the next state of a cell with that many live neighbors. The ordering is big-endian, which means that the lowest neighbor counts are at the end with the last bit representing n=1. In this case, expanding the hexadecimal digits reveals that the rule is R2,C4,S3-4,B4.

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 64, rule = g4r2b000008s00000c
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Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 64, rule = R2,C4,S3-4,B4
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4.3A2.2A.A.A.2A.A4.A2.A2.3A.A2.A.2A.3A4.2A.A2.4A.A!

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
LaundryPizza03 at Wikipedia

The latest edition of new-gliders.db.txt and oscillators.db.txt have 35296 spaceships and 1451 oscillators from outer-totalistic rules. You are invited to help!

Inferno
Posts: 38
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by Inferno » August 14th, 2021, 8:10 am

i get this error when trying to run symmetries such as H4_+1. G1 works but other CUDA accelerated symmetries don't. Is this intentional?

Code: Select all

includes/apgluxe.h: In function ‘int run_apgluxe(int, char**)’:
includes/apgluxe.h:35:25: error: ‘getDeviceCount’ is not a member of ‘apg’
     int gpuCount = apg::getDeviceCount();
                         ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
make: *** [makefile:80: main.o] Error 1

Inferno
Posts: 38
Joined: June 25th, 2021, 9:02 am

Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by Inferno » August 14th, 2021, 8:08 pm

Inferno wrote:
August 14th, 2021, 8:10 am
i get this error when trying to run symmetries such as H4_+1. G1 works but other CUDA accelerated symmetries don't. Is this intentional?
Nevermind, I fixed it by changing apg::getDeviceCount() to 1 in apgluxe.h.

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GUYTU6J
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by GUYTU6J » October 29th, 2021, 10:46 am

A minor question: when using apgluxe v5.2-ll2.4.3 in WSL with parallelisation "-p 2", how is multi-threading displayed on the console?
Besides sparser reports for status (once per 100,000 soups instead of 10 seconds), faster speed (a bit smaller soups/second than twice of usual, as I just saw; don't know if it is combined or per core) and uploading even upon ctrl+C (which would normally just kill the search and discarding soups), I don't see it mentioning parallelization/multithreading in a very obvious manner.
Why do most natural OCA rules tend to get a diminishing span of interest and go into oblivion, like a lost civilization leaving little records for its beauty and power?

I have been focusing on this rule, now in industrial era:

熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden

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bibunsekibun
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by bibunsekibun » October 31st, 2021, 1:15 am

Is it okay to select one of the packages in Cygwin from gcc-g ++, git, make, and python? Or do I have to put them all in?
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GUYTU6J
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by GUYTU6J » October 31st, 2021, 2:11 am

bibunsekibun wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 1:15 am
Is it okay to select one of the packages in Cygwin from gcc-g ++, git, make, and python? Or do I have to put them all in?
They're all needed.
However, if you're using Win10 then there is something better than Cygwin.
Why do most natural OCA rules tend to get a diminishing span of interest and go into oblivion, like a lost civilization leaving little records for its beauty and power?

I have been focusing on this rule, now in industrial era:

熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden

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bibunsekibun
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Location: Japan

Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by bibunsekibun » October 31st, 2021, 3:48 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 2:11 am
bibunsekibun wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 1:15 am
Is it okay to select one of the packages in Cygwin from gcc-g ++, git, make, and python? Or do I have to put them all in?
They're all needed.
However, if you're using Win10 then there is something better than Cygwin.
I only have gcc-g ++, can I retrofit git, make, python?
I'm sleepy
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GUYTU6J
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by GUYTU6J » October 31st, 2021, 4:00 am

bibunsekibun wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 3:48 am
GUYTU6J wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 2:11 am
bibunsekibun wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 1:15 am
Is it okay to select one of the packages in Cygwin from gcc-g ++, git, make, and python? Or do I have to put them all in?
They're all needed.
However, if you're using Win10 then there is something better than Cygwin.
I only have gcc-g ++, can I retrofit git, make, python?
Just try it out. Is your gcc-g++ installed inside Cygwin?
Why do most natural OCA rules tend to get a diminishing span of interest and go into oblivion, like a lost civilization leaving little records for its beauty and power?

I have been focusing on this rule, now in industrial era:

熠熠种花 - Glimmering Garden

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bibunsekibun
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by bibunsekibun » October 31st, 2021, 4:17 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 4:00 am
Just try it out. Is your gcc-g++ installed inside Cygwin?
It is installed.
I'm sleepy
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calcyman
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Re: apgsearch v5.0

Post by calcyman » January 19th, 2022, 12:01 am

apgluxe v5.32-ll2.4.14 has been released.

It has a considerably improved object separation algorithm, which is sufficiently rigorous that it now no longer needs to perform any ad hoc algorithms for specific rules or object types.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

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