Catalyst improvements WIP

For scripts to aid with computation or simulation in cellular automata.
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simsim314
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by simsim314 » March 5th, 2015, 4:08 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:Can a mango be a catalyst?
Very unprobable. There are two kind of catalysts: 1. transparent 2. self fixed.

Transparent catalysts die and come back to the original place by the reaction itself. Mango is not so common (not like block or beehive), so transparent mango should be very rare.

As for self fixed (like eater1 and eater2 etc), mango never came up in bellman searches, and I never saw any such interaction based on mango - so this is even less probable.

----

Saying that - it would be interesting to estimate the self fix potential of any SL. Such ideas came up, like conducting statistics for many SL and see which ones function as catalyst more times than others.

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Gustavo6046
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 5th, 2015, 12:26 pm

Then who knows a cross 1 or loaf? They have pointy places, like many eaters, so the minimal damage is suffered while eating "rotten" gliders.
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by dvgrn » March 5th, 2015, 2:05 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:Then who knows a cross 1 or loaf? They have pointy places, like many eaters, so the minimal damage is suffered while eating "rotten" gliders.
Not sure what you mean by a "cross 1" -- is it a period-3 oscillator, or a 24-cell still life? If you're thinking of the big symmetric four-overlapping-hats still life, then a beehive, boat or tub will be much smaller and will probably have a similar function.

"Minimal damage" doesn't mean much in the context of Conway's Life -- at least, you can't measure it by counting how many cells are different from what they should be. A one-cell difference is major damage for most still lifes, and loaves are no exception.

Subtract any single cell from a loaf, or add any single cell in the neighborhood of a loaf, and generally what you have is no longer a loaf: there's no plausible reaction that allows the loaf to recover.

Exceptions include the old standard eater3-type double loaf inversion, and the really surprising R-to-B and R-to-H converters. But in every one of these, every single cell in the loaf turns off during the reaction, so they're not really exceptions...!

At least for the R-to-B and the R-to-H, it's apparently just a matter of luck that a new loaf appears in the exact same place as the old loaf. If you look at enough reactions where still lifes get overrun by active reactions, eventually a few will show up where the same still life just happens to show up as leftover ash, in exactly the same location.

It doesn't seem to be too relevant whether such objects have pointy places on them or not. The only rule of thumb seems to be that if an object is common in random ash, it's more likely to show up as a transparent catalyst -- especially if it's symmetrical, since then it's more likely to show up in the correct orientation.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Kazyan » March 5th, 2015, 2:35 pm

dvgrn wrote:It doesn't seem to be too relevant whether such objects have pointy places on them or not. The only rule of thumb seems to be that if an object is common in random ash, it's more likely to show up as a transparent catalyst -- especially if it's symmetrical, since then it's more likely to show up in the correct orientation.
This why, when I'm manually looking for Herschel stuff, I only bother with placing attempting-to-be-transparent blocks. They're the most common object in the game and have D8 symmetry. Even then, something promising only happens somewhere around 5% of the time. Interesting when it does, though...!
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 5th, 2015, 8:27 pm

Kazyan wrote:
dvgrn wrote:It doesn't seem to be too relevant whether such objects have pointy places on them or not. The only rule of thumb seems to be that if an object is common in random ash, it's more likely to show up as a transparent catalyst -- especially if it's symmetrical, since then it's more likely to show up in the correct orientation.
This why, when I'm manually looking for Herschel stuff, I only bother with placing attempting-to-be-transparent blocks. They're the most common object in the game and have D8 symmetry. Even then, something promising only happens somewhere around 5% of the time. Interesting when it does, though...!
..the game? though it were just an mathematical concept. And once everything in Life is discovered... the main goals reached... nothing will leave besides a library of knowledge about the rule, since it is not a game, and has no objectives... and as such it will be treated as simple mathematic topic in the near future!
I stil did not lost my enthusiasm in it... glider reactions are like intelligent workers working together via partnership to do something cool, like a Gospel glider rake...
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by simsim314 » March 6th, 2015, 3:39 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:since it is not a game, and has no objectives...
It's a single player game - and it has a lot of objectives. Exactly like building a house is not a game but it has very clear objective, the objective though is not to to beat someone else - it's to built/discover something of value.
Gustavo6046 wrote:And once everything in Life is discovered
There is no point were "everything" is discovered. Because the objectives can be reached in so many ways, and because it's not just about classifying random patterns, but really finding new discoveries of value - this topic will continue to be active. Exactly as geometry today although you don't hear about it, new discoveries are made in 2d euclidean geometry today - it's just less of interest to the public, but it's definitely not a finished base of knowledge.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Kazyan » March 6th, 2015, 3:57 am

Life is classed as a "0-player game". but I just used "most common object in the game" for emphasis.
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calcyman
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by calcyman » March 6th, 2015, 2:11 pm

Exactly as geometry today although you don't hear about it, new discoveries are made in 2d euclidean geometry today - it's just less of interest to the public, but it's definitely not a finished base of knowledge.
Euclidean geometry isn't an area of active research, not least because it has been proved decidable (by Alfred Tarski). Conversely, if one drops the qualifier 'Euclidean', then it's still a huge area of active research (algebraic geometry, differential geometry etc.).
They're the most common object in the game
Number of blinkers: 26303743679
Number of blocks: 28313228849

Okay, you actually win. I always thought blinkers were slightly more common than blocks, although I can remember it depending on whether you're on a torus or in a sea of empty space.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by HartmutHolzwart » March 6th, 2015, 2:27 pm

Don't you think that the discussion gets slightly off-topic?

And concerning Euclidean geometry:

It might look dead as a research topic, but it's still a source of interesting questions and puzzles. Which doesn't mean that you need to like it.

What we do in the life list, mostly can be seen as recreational math or recreational computing as well.

Keep the cheer, there is room for everyone!

Only in CGOl, the low hanging fuits are already eaten nearly as much as in Euclidean geometry.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 6th, 2015, 4:45 pm

simsim314 wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:since it is not a game, and has no objectives...
It's a single player game - and it has a lot of objectives. Exactly like building a house is not a game but it has very clear objective, the objective though is not to to beat someone else - it's to built/discover something of value.
Which value?
Gustavo6046 wrote:And once everything in Life is discovered
There is no point were "everything" is discovered. Because the objectives can be reached in so many ways, and because it's not just about classifying random patterns, but really finding new discoveries of value - this topic will continue to be active. Exactly as geometry today although you don't hear about it, new discoveries are made in 2d euclidean geometry today - it's just less of interest to the public, but it's definitely not a finished base of knowledge.
Yeah, there is no point to it, and again - which value? My bet is curiosity, but that's only challenging someone to do something impossible with a arrangement of bits, like said Wolfram... Also it is only a rule with finite possibilities and external/thirparty objectives, which is just to do some fictional arrangement of bits that just resemble, even if not so closely, one real -- or even fictional -- object! Not that I'm tired of Life, because I will help until "the point where 'everything'' is discovered" you believe it don't exist!
I've just don't either know what is euclidean geometry, much less non-euclidean one.
HartmutHolzwart wrote:Only in CGOl, the low hanging fuits are already eaten nearly as much as in Euclidean geometry.
But it seem I can't reach even the lowest one that isn't eaten!
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by codeholic » March 6th, 2015, 9:33 pm

Okay, here is a not yet eaten low hanging fruit (not because it was like that, but because people bent a branch for you): build a weekender gun.
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 7th, 2015, 12:08 pm

codeholic wrote:Okay, here is a not yet eaten low hanging fruit (not because it was like that, but because people bent a branch for you): build a weekender gun.
I don't have scripts (and apparently can't) but I will try my best at using Gospel glider guns. It might not be hard since i is only glider stuff.
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by simsim314 » March 10th, 2015, 10:22 am

This is Gospel.

And this is Gosper.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 10th, 2015, 11:21 am

Better thinking... it has so many gliders, so dense, I don't know how can they synthesize a weekender with a pure salvo! Maybe easier doing a heavyweight spaceship gun with REALLY @ CKING LONG PERIOD using my p180 glider guns.
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Kazyan » March 10th, 2015, 11:49 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:Better thinking... it has so many gliders, so dense, I don't know how can they synthesize a weekender with a pure salvo! Maybe easier doing a heavyweight spaceship gun with REALLY @ CKING LONG PERIOD using my p180 glider guns.
Check out the dart gun and the p416 gun for 60P5H2V0. Those may show you generally how we cram gliders into dense salvos like this.
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » March 10th, 2015, 12:45 pm

View original post here

I am now down to make MWSS because it's easier... I really tried for something like a hour but it don't seem to work. But it atleast compensated in which I could do a oscillator. It all involves 180p Gosper-based guns and pipsquirters to reflect.
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Kazyan » March 19th, 2015, 10:06 am

I think it's worth adding this bookend-table-snake (BTS) to the catalyst list. It comes up in in my Bellman searches all the time.

Code: Select all

#C [[ THUMBNAIL ]]
x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3bo2bo$4b3o2$2obob2o$ob2obo$5bo$5b2o!
The active site is the northeast; the rightmost two cells of the bookend are the ones that change. BTS has several ways of catalyzing reactions and its placements are unintuitive, so it's probably a good idea to automate it.

Here's four ways it can catalyze a Pi, if you need convincing as to its usefulness:

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
14b3o17b2o8b3o$7b2o5bobo17bo2bo6bobo$7bo2bo3bobo18b3o6bobo$8b3o$31b2ob
ob2o$4b2obob2o20bob2obo$4bob2obo26bo$9bo26b2o$9b2o11$46b2o$46bo$47bo$
42b2o2b2o$42bobo$44bob4o$43b2obo2bo5$14b3o27b3o$3b2o9bobo27bobo$3bo2bo
7bobo27bobo$4b3o2$2obob2o$ob2obo$5bo$5b2o!
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Scorbie » March 21st, 2015, 4:23 am

Kazyan wrote:I think it's worth adding this bookend-table-snake (BTS) to the catalyst list. It comes up in in my Bellman searches all the time.
If you change them slightly, one might replace both the eater and the snake.

Code: Select all

#C [[ THUMBNAIL VIEWONLY ]]
x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3bo2bo$4b3o2$3bob2o$b3obo$o4bo$2o3b2o!

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Sphenocorona » March 31st, 2015, 9:34 pm

Just a simple comment on the "BTS", which is that its minimum bounding box configuration does not have a snake or even a bookend:

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
.2A$A2.A$3A2.A$3.3A$2.A$2.A.2A$.2A.A$4.A$4.2A!
(also, sidenote: found an issue with the Viewer pop-out where the viewer can be placed too close to the top of the screen and thus be impossible to move or even close)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by rowett » April 1st, 2015, 9:51 am

Sphenocorona wrote:(also, sidenote: found an issue with the Viewer pop-out where the viewer can be placed too close to the top of the screen and thus be impossible to move or even close)
Thanks for reporting. This will be addressed in the next released build.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by rowett » April 2nd, 2015, 5:54 am

rowett wrote:
Sphenocorona wrote:(also, sidenote: found an issue with the Viewer pop-out where the viewer can be placed too close to the top of the screen and thus be impossible to move or even close)
Thanks for reporting. This will be addressed in the next released build.
This is now fixed and released.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » July 17th, 2015, 7:46 pm

I wish someone to catalyst the two tubs in this two-block-to-three-block reaction I found.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$bo10$21b2o$21b2o5$12bobo$13b2o$13bo3$22bo$21bobo$17b2o3bo$17b2o
!
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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by The Turtle » July 17th, 2015, 8:43 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:I wish someone to catalyst the two tubs in this two-block-to-three-block reaction I found.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$bo10$21b2o$21b2o5$12bobo$13b2o$13bo3$22bo$21bobo$17b2o3bo$17b2o
!
The glider, if moved backwards, would run into the tub.
Only two things are constant: change and the speed of light.

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by Gustavo6046 » July 17th, 2015, 8:51 pm

The Turtle wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:I wish someone to catalyst the two tubs in this two-block-to-three-block reaction I found.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$bo10$21b2o$21b2o5$12bobo$13b2o$13bo3$22bo$21bobo$17b2o3bo$17b2o
!
The glider, if moved backwards, would run into the tub.
Yeah i know that. I TRIED THAT TRIVIAL AND IT DIDN'T EVEN COLLIDED!!
Um, sorry...
*yawn* What a nothing-to-do day! Let's be the only person in the world to do CGOL during boring times. :)

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Re: Catalyst improvements WIP

Post by mniemiec » July 19th, 2015, 5:14 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:
The Turtle wrote:
Gustavo6046 wrote:I wish someone to catalyst the two tubs in this two-block-to-three-block reaction I found.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
bo$obo$bo10$21b2o$21b2o5$12bobo$13b2o$13bo3$22bo$21bobo$17b2o3bo$17b2o
!
The glider, if moved backwards, would run into the tub.
Yeah i know that. I TRIED THAT TRIVIAL AND IT DIDN'T EVEN COLLIDED!!
Um, sorry...
If you move the glider backwards 80 generations (e.g. 20 spaces left and up), you will see that its path intersects that of the topmost tub, and hits it, leaving a boat. The fact that the glider could not have gotten there without hitting the tub should be obvious visually, by just looking directly behind it, and seeing that it must have passed through the tub to get to where it currently is. It is important to ensure that any reactions one posts don't have such problems (with the possible exception of "useless discoveries", e.g. "this is a nice reaction, but since the glider could not possibly get here, it's useless").

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