## Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
dvgrn
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### Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Plan for slow diagonal Geminoid spaceship
Demonoid-blueprint.png (11.86 KiB) Viewed 41690 times
A mention of the "slowest orthogonal spaceship speed' in the 31c/240 article on the LifeWiki reminded me of a back-burner project: the Demonoid spaceship! Demonoids will be, after the half-baked knightships, a second class of spaceship with fixed slope (Demonoids can move only diagonally) but adjustable speed. Moving the two mirror-image constructors N cells farther apart will slow down the spaceship by 8N ticks.

The most recent Demonoid design had 100 still lifes per replicator unit, or 200 still lifes in all (not counting the self-destruct circuits, which never quite got finished to my satisfaction.)

The construction of the linear replicator (henceforth known as the "GoL propagator", by the way, to avoid terminology wars about the precise definition of "replicator") showed that it doesn't take very much Spartan Herschel circuitry to build a working construction arm. It should now be possible to make a diagonal Geminoid fly with only 44 still lifes per constructor unit, or 88sL in all:

Code: Select all

``````x = 1429, y = 1374, rule = LifeHistory
132.A\$130.3A\$129.A\$129.2A8.2A\$139.A\$137.A.A\$137.2A12.2A\$150.A.A\$150.A
11.A\$127.2A20.2A9.3A\$127.2A30.A\$159.2A10.2A\$108.2A61.A\$108.2A59.A.A\$
169.2A\$146.2A\$146.2A41.A\$179.2A6.3A\$179.2A5.A\$186.2A3\$185.2A\$180.2A3.
2A\$155.2A23.2A\$156.A\$153.3A\$118.2A33.A\$118.2A22.2A47.A7.A\$142.A.A44.
3A5.3A11.A\$144.A43.A7.A14.3A\$144.2A42.2A6.2A16.A14.A\$213.2A12.3A\$226.
A\$226.2A3\$225.2A\$206.2A17.2A\$206.2A6\$209.2A\$210.A\$207.3A\$207.A\$212.2A
\$213.A\$210.3A\$210.A8\$222.2A\$222.2A12\$223.2A\$223.A.A\$225.A\$225.2A2\$8.
2A8.A\$8.2A6.3A\$15.A\$2A13.2A\$.A\$.A.A\$2.2A\$7.2A204.2A\$7.2A204.2A4\$4.A\$
3.A.A\$3.2A219.2A\$203.2A19.A\$204.A17.A.A\$12.2A190.A.A15.2A\$12.2A191.2A
4.A\$210.A.A\$210.A.A\$211.A10.2A\$222.A.A\$224.A\$224.2A\$209.2A\$210.A\$207.
3A\$207.A\$223.3A\$223.A\$224.A70\$98.2A\$99.A\$99.A.A\$100.2A2\$115.2A\$115.2A
2\$106.2A\$98.2A6.2A\$98.2A3\$111.A\$110.A.A\$103.2A6.2A\$104.A\$101.3A\$101.A
35\$348.3A\$348.A\$349.A123\$473.3A\$473.A\$474.A187\$663.2A\$663.A.A\$663.A
596\$1396.2A\$1396.A\$1394.A.A\$1352.A37.2A2.2A\$1326.A9.A15.3A35.2A\$1326.
3A5.3A18.A\$1329.A3.A20.2A11.2A\$1328.2A3.2A32.2A8\$1342.2A52.2A\$1342.2A
34.2A16.A.A\$1330.2A45.A.A18.A\$1329.A2.A44.A20.2A\$1324.2A4.2A44.2A4.2A
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3A\$1335.A4\$1399.2A\$1399.A\$1397.A.A\$1397.2A5\$1399.2A\$1399.A\$1397.A.A
11.2A\$1397.2A12.A\$1409.A.A\$1405.2A2.2A\$1405.2A4\$1404.2A\$1404.2A4.2A\$
1410.2A7\$1417.A\$1415.3A\$1414.A\$1414.2A7\$1419.2A\$1419.A\$1417.A.A\$1417.
2A3\$1403.2A\$1402.A.A\$1402.A\$1401.2A\$1421.2A\$1422.A\$1419.3A\$1419.A2\$
1412.2A\$1412.2A\$1397.A\$1397.3A\$1400.A\$1399.2A2\$1425.A\$1423.3A\$1422.A\$
1422.2A5\$1427.2A\$1427.A\$1425.A.A\$1425.2A\$1418.2A\$1418.2A8\$1400.2A\$
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1240.2A\$1240.2A2\$1233.2A\$1232.A.A\$1232.A\$1231.2A13.2A\$1246.A\$1239.2A
6.3A\$1239.2A8.A80\$1349.2A\$1349.A\$1347.A.A\$1347.2A2\$1332.2A\$1332.2A3\$
1349.2A\$1342.2A5.2A\$1342.2A2\$1337.A\$1336.A.A\$1336.2A6.2A\$1344.A\$1345.
3A\$1347.A!``````
However, a lot more than 44 still lifes will have to be constructed in each cycle, as in the original Demonoid blueprint (but even more so.) This isn't a trivial construction like the spiral-growth pattern, unfortunately -- mostly because of the little problem with overlaps shown in the above blueprint.

Assume for the moment that the previous construction unit (southwest of the green one) has already been shot down and destroyed completely -- there's nothing left of it. Then the active constructor (green) has to
• build the main body of the new U.C. (white);
• build a series of two freeze-dried slow salvos to the north (yellow and green arrows);
• go inactive after sending out a final glider;
• have the glider trigger a previously-built copy of the first freeze-dried salvo (green rectangle) to shoot down the now-inactive U.C., leaving only two target ash objects (orange dots to the northeast);
• have the previous reaction trigger an older copy of the second freeze-dried salvo (yellow rectangle) which builds the two white semi-Snarks, using the older ash objects as targets (orange dots to the southwest).
• minor cleanup detail: send a few gliders from somewhere to shoot down the green semi-Snarks in the southwest.
On the following cycle, the white U.C. will self-destruct in turn, and the next copy of the second freeze-dried salvo (next yellow rectangle to the northeast) will construct the two red semi-Snarks, starting from target objects left over from the destruction of the green U.C..

With any luck, the first freeze-dried salvo can be very short -- hopefully just one glider! I've left room for a long destruction salvo in the blueprint, and that method would certainly work, but I think it would be much less efficient.

I believe there have to be two stages -- destruction of the main body of the U.C., then construction of semi-Snarks on the same site in a later cycle -- because the semi-Snarks at each stage have to shoot zillions of gliders right through the middle of the next semi-Snark locations. There's no way around this that I can see, without greatly increasing the total amount of circuitry needed.

-------------------------------------

Now, this may look like a crazy amount of multi-stage self-construction trickery... and it probably is. But here's why this is a really good practice pattern for an eventual quadratic-growth replicator construction:
• 1) There's an option to use self-destruct circuitry on the main body of the U.C. -- I still want to see a good single-glider-triggered self-destruct circuit in operation.
• 1b) The main body is only 31 still lifes, all in an easy line with plenty of space around it, so with any luck there will be a little competition here on the forums, to use the Seeds of Destruction Game to find the most efficient self-destruct circuitry. That would save me some work...
2) New semi-Snarks have to be built in locations that are right in the way of the old U.C., so they'll have to be built at the last minute with freeze-dried slow salvos... which I also very much want to see in action. A quadratic-growth replicator is very likely to need the same kind of prepare-now, build-later construction approach in at least a few key places.
• 2b) With any luck, freeze-dried salvos for constructing just those teeny little semi-Snarks won't be too ridiculously huge -- see below.
3) This design uses the more efficient 10hd U.C. technology, which still needs a little more R&D anyway.
There aren't any annoying technical problems with making absolutely exact copies this time around -- the Demonoid is a spaceship, not a replicator. So it's okay to re-use the same elbow, build parts of the U.C. or the freeze-dried slow salvos a cycle or two in advance, delay parts of the cleanup by a cycle or two if necessary, and so on. Should be an interesting layout puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

-- Okay. So before we go any further with this design, does anyone see a radically simpler way to design a Demonoid? I'm definitely open for suggestions...!

I'm guessing that each semi-Snark will need about 60 gliders to construct -- maybe a few more if we include some well-placed extra junk to help with the destruction stage. We can probably freeze-dry a 60-glider salvo at a cost of three stable objects per glider.

So that means we're building a 60*3*2 = ~360-object constellation just to put the dozen still lifes for the semi-Snarks in the right place at the right time -- plus another fifty or sixty for the actual U.C.-plus-self-destruct. That's definitely doable, but it adds up to a much bigger construction project than the GoL propagator. The original Gemini spaceship did more work than that, but it had two arms to do the work with...

Anyone see a way to reduce the total construction burden for this Demonoid design? Maybe one of the original Demonoid blueprints will be cheaper after all -- they don't have the overlapping semi-Snark problem, so the total cost might be somewhere around 200sL instead of 420sL.

Sadly, there would be no excuse to get some experience with freeze-dried salvos... but to make up for that, we could use elbow-op recipes that included singleton gliders. Especially at 10hd, those seem to be significantly more efficient -- and the old Demonoids could handle input data four times faster, on top of that.

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

I have been investigating how to make SW gliders near to the construction arm directly from the construction elbow. Since for moderate distances from the arm I expected these things to get pretty messy I first searched for an elbow duplicator. This one uses 3 glider pairs to make two elbow blocks separated by 7fd:

Code: Select all

``````x = 85, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
83b2o\$83b2o17\$60b3o\$62bo\$61bo11\$57b3o\$59bo\$58bo15\$30b3o\$32bo\$31bo5\$33b
3o\$35bo\$34bo21\$3o\$2bo\$bo5\$3bo\$3b2o\$2bobo!
``````
Now the problem I tackled was to fire glider pairs at the spare elbow block until we have a SW glider and nothing else. These are all the options I found so far:

Code: Select all

``````x = 2745, y = 642, rule = LifeHistory
184.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C67.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C83.C.C.C.C.C
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1798.2C\$1797.C.C!
``````
I annotate each reaction with a certain number of dots above. My numbering system has lane 0 as the lane which is in the centre of the two construction lanes (10hd apart). Thus the SW gliders on lanes +/- 6 have an envelope that is 1hd wider than the construction lanes on both sides. Lanes between +5 and -5 are uninteresting because those gliders are contained entirely within the construction lane envelope.

My searches so far have yielded glides on lanes 6 to 28 and 31 and 34 modulo sign. Here is the code I used to find them:

Code: Select all

``````import golly as g

LANE0 = -5
LANE1 = 5
FULL_DEPTH = 4
CLEANUP_DEPTH = 4
MAX_POP = [40, 40, 40, 35, 30, 25, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20]
MAX_GENS = 250

depths = {}
new_pats = []

def to_pairs(cells):
return zip(cells[::2], cells[1::2])

G_NE = g.parse('3o\$2bo\$bo!')
G_SW = g.transform(g.parse('bo\$o\$3o!'), 0, -2)
GLIDERS_SW = [to_pairs(g.evolve(G_SW, i)) for i in range(4)]

assert(all((0,0) in gl for gl in GLIDERS_SW))

def canonical(cells):
if not cells:
return ()

cells = sorted(to_pairs(cells))

x0 = cells[0][0]
return tuple((x-x0, y+x0) for x,y in cells)

# false positives quite possible
def is_block_pair(cells):
canon = canonical(cells)
if len(canon) == 8 and ((0,1) in canon and (1,0) in canon or (0,2) in canon and (1,1) in canon):
lanes = [x+y for x, y in canon]
return min(lanes) >= 0 and max(lanes) <= 3

def remove_g_sw(cells):
pairs = to_pairs(cells)
for x0, y0 in pairs:
for gl in GLIDERS_SW:
if all((x0+i, y0+j) in pairs for (i, j) in gl):
if sum(abs(x-x0) + abs(y-y0) <= 3 for x, y in pairs) == 5:
for i, j in gl:
pairs.remove((x0+i, y0+j))
ret = []
for x, y in pairs:
ret.append(x)
ret.append(y)
return ret, x0 + y0 - 1 #for reasons of symmetry

return cells, None

def get_period(cells):
sort = sorted(to_pairs(cells))
for p in range(2):
cells = g.evolve(cells, 1)
if sorted(to_pairs(cells)) == sort:
return p + 1

return 0

offset = 0

def show_it(recipe, lane):

global offset

for i in range(abs(lane)):
g.putcells([0, 0], offset + 2 + 2 * i, -50)

g.putcells(g.parse('2o\$2o!'), offset, 0)

for i, t in enumerate(recipe[::2]):
g.putcells(g.evolve(G_NE, t), offset-80*i+LANE0-15, 80*i + 15)

for i, t in enumerate(recipe[1::2]):
g.putcells(g.evolve(G_NE, t), offset-80*i+LANE1-15-15, 80*i + 15 + 15)

offset += 100
g.fit()
g.update()
g.select(g.getrect())
g.copy()
g.select([])
g.show(str(recipe))

def store(cells, lane, recipe, period, depth, next_pats):

old_depth = -1

canon = canonical(cells)
if (canon, lane) in depths:
old_depth = depths[(canon, lane)]
elif period == 2:
canon1 = canonical(g.evolve(cells, 1))
if (canon1, lane) in depths:
old_depth = depths[(canon1, lane)]

if old_depth < depth:
depths[(canon, lane)] = depth
if depth > 0:
next_pats.append((canon, lane, recipe, period, depth))
return True
else:
return False

g.new('')
store(g.parse('2o\$2o!'), None, (), 1, FULL_DEPTH, new_pats)

got = []
half_got = []
iteration = 0

while new_pats:
iteration += 1
if len(got) == 1:
got = []
got.append(str(iteration))
next_pats = []
n = 0
for canon, lane, recipe, period, depth in new_pats:

g.show(str((n, len(new_pats), half_got, got)))
if lane is not None and abs(lane) in got:
continue

cells = []
for x, y in canon:
cells.append(x)
cells.append(y)

n += 1
for phase in range(period):
g1 = g.transform(g.evolve(G_NE, phase), LANE0 - 15, 15)
g2 = g.transform(G_NE, LANE1 - 15 - 15, 15 + 15)
for t in range(80):
start_cells = cells + g1 + g2
gens = MAX_GENS - t // 4 * 2   # always even
end_cells, new_lane = remove_g_sw(g.evolve(start_cells, gens))
g2 = g.evolve(g2, 1)

if lane is not None and new_lane is not None:
continue

if len(end_cells) > 2 * MAX_POP[iteration-1]:
continue

period = get_period(end_cells)
if period == 0:
continue

new_depth = depth - 1
new_recipe = recipe + (phase, t)

#                if is_block_pair(end_cells):
#                    show_it(new_recipe, 0)

if new_lane is not None:
if abs(new_lane) <= 5:
continue
else:
new_depth += CLEANUP_DEPTH
if abs(new_lane) not in (half_got + got):
half_got.append(abs(new_lane))
half_got.sort()
else:
new_lane = lane

if store(end_cells, new_lane, new_recipe, period, new_depth, next_pats):
if new_lane is not None and abs(new_lane) > 5 and not end_cells:
show_it(new_recipe, new_lane)
if abs(new_lane) not in got:
got.append(abs(new_lane))
if abs(new_lane) in half_got:
half_got.remove(abs(new_lane))

new_pats = next_pats

g.show(str((half_got, got)))
``````
It is currently set to do a full search on the first 4 glider pairs and after that try to search for another 4 glider pairs to clean up reactions that have already given a SW glider. That runs in less than 2 hours on my machine. Increasing the search depth to 5 may be feasible if the span of gliders here is insufficient.

I found a list of eater recipes here. When I discovered that the recipe named e1J was compatible with my list of lanes I couldn't resist making this test pattern that shows the construction of the final eater in a nearly complete semi-snark. When translated to my lane numbering the salvo recipe is 19, 17, 17, 6, 15, 11, 22, 16, 24 and when the gliders for the elbow duplicators are added I reckon the total number of glider pairs will be 73. Whether this will work for the other still lifes is a bit of an open question but I am quite optimistic.

Code: Select all

``````x = 3949, y = 3948, rule = LifeHistory
3947.2C\$3947.2C9\$3937.2C\$3937.2C9\$3927.2C\$3927.2C9\$3917.2C\$3917.2C9\$
3907.2C\$3907.2C9\$3897.2C\$3897.2C9\$3887.2C\$3887.2C9\$3877.2C\$3877.2C6\$
3870.2C\$3870.2C63\$3783.2C\$3783.2C7\$3776.2C\$3776.2C2\$3768.2C\$3769.C\$
3769.C.C\$3770.2C\$3775.2C\$3775.2C4\$3772.C\$3771.C.C\$3771.2C3\$3780.2D\$
3780.2D5\$3770.3C\$3772.C\$3771.C\$3777.2C\$3776.C.C\$3778.C12\$3813.3D\$
3813.D\$3814.D8\$3823.3D\$3823.D\$3824.D27\$3714.2C\$3715.2C6.2C\$3714.C7.C.
C\$3724.C69\$3642.3C\$3644.C\$3643.C7\$3643.2C\$3642.C.C\$3644.C78\$3563.2C\$
3562.C.C\$3564.C3\$3548.2C\$3549.2C\$3548.C64\$3482.2C\$3481.C.C\$3483.C7\$
3483.2C\$3482.C.C\$3484.C63\$3408.C\$3408.2C\$3407.C.C13\$3403.2C\$3402.C.C\$
3404.C67\$3324.C\$3324.2C\$3323.C.C9\$3323.2C\$3322.C.C\$3324.C78\$3243.2C\$
3242.C.C\$3231.3C10.C\$3233.C\$3232.C69\$3160.3C\$3162.C\$3161.C9\$3159.2C\$
3158.C.C\$3160.C67\$3080.3C\$3082.C\$3081.C6\$3082.2C\$3083.2C\$3082.C70\$
3000.3C\$3002.C\$3001.C9\$2999.C\$2999.2C\$2998.C.C47\$2940.3C\$2942.C\$2941.
C9\$2939.2C\$2938.C.C\$2940.C67\$2860.3C\$2862.C\$2861.C6\$2862.2C\$2863.2C\$
2862.C70\$2780.3C\$2782.C\$2781.C9\$2779.C\$2779.2C\$2778.C.C36\$2731.C\$
2731.2C\$2730.C.C13\$2726.C\$2726.2C\$2725.C.C63\$2651.C\$2651.2C\$2650.C.C
2\$2657.2C\$2656.C.C\$2658.C70\$2585.3C\$2587.C\$2586.C2\$2571.2C\$2570.C.C\$
2572.C76\$2503.3C\$2505.C\$2491.C12.C\$2491.2C\$2490.C.C198\$2291.2C\$2290.C
.C\$2292.C3\$2296.3C\$2298.C\$2297.C63\$2221.C\$2221.2C\$2220.C.C11\$2218.3C\$
2220.C\$2219.C65\$2141.C\$2141.2C\$2140.C.C7\$2142.2C\$2143.2C\$2142.C69\$
2061.2C\$2060.C.C\$2062.C3\$2066.3C\$2068.C\$2067.C73\$1981.2C\$1980.C.C\$
1982.C7\$1982.C\$1982.2C\$1981.C.C69\$1901.2C\$1900.C.C\$1902.C2\$1907.2C\$
1906.C.C\$1908.C64\$1831.C\$1831.2C\$1830.C.C7\$1832.2C\$1831.C.C\$1833.C69\$
1751.C\$1751.2C7.2C\$1750.C.C8.2C\$1760.C77\$1671.C\$1671.2C\$1670.C.C3\$
1676.2C\$1677.2C\$1676.C273\$1391.C\$1391.2C\$1390.C.C3\$1396.3C\$1398.C\$
1397.C74\$1310.3C\$1312.C\$1311.C\$1317.2C\$1316.C.C\$1318.C57\$1258.2C\$
1259.2C\$1246.2C10.C\$1245.C.C\$1247.C76\$1178.2C\$1167.2C10.2C\$1168.2C8.C
\$1167.C65\$1100.2C\$1099.C.C\$1101.C10\$1098.2C\$1099.2C\$1098.C78\$1018.2C\$
1019.2C\$1018.C3\$1003.3C\$1005.C\$1004.C73\$938.2C\$927.3C9.2C\$929.C8.C\$
928.C85\$840.3C\$842.C\$841.C\$847.2C\$846.C.C\$848.C43\$792.2C\$793.2C\$792.C
7.2C\$799.C.C\$801.C78\$720.2C\$721.2C\$720.C2\$706.2C\$705.C.C\$707.C64\$640.
2C\$639.C.C\$641.C8\$640.2C\$641.2C\$640.C66\$562.3C\$564.C\$563.C10\$560.2C\$
561.2C\$560.C78\$480.2C\$479.C.C\$481.C3\$465.2C\$464.C.C\$466.C62\$401.C\$
401.2C\$400.C.C4\$405.3C\$407.C\$406.C72\$321.C\$321.2C\$320.C.C11\$318.2C\$
317.C.C\$319.C65\$241.2C\$240.C.C\$242.C4\$245.3C\$247.C\$246.C72\$161.C\$161.
2C\$160.C.C\$168.C\$168.2C\$167.C.C75\$81.C\$81.2C\$80.C.C9\$80.2C\$81.2C\$80.C
67\$.2C\$C.C\$2.C2\$7.C\$7.2C\$6.C.C!
``````

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:I have been investigating how to make SW gliders near to the construction arm directly from the construction elbow.
... I couldn't resist making this test pattern that shows the construction of the final eater in a nearly complete semi-snark... Whether this will work for the other still lifes is a bit of an open question but I am quite optimistic.
This is a very interesting approach! I knew I would need an elbow duplicator, but hadn't gotten around to finding a good one yet. Had never thought seriously about building the east semi-Snark directly from the elbow.

Now that there's a known elbow duplicator, by the way, another thing worth looking for will be clean elbow-to-*WSS recipes -- there are construction and destruction problems in some Geminoid spaceship designs that can be handled most efficiently with LWSSes rather than gliders.

Last year I did enough experimenting to convince myself that circuit destruction is about as efficient with a slow salvo of LWSSes from a construction-arm elbow, as with a slow salvo of gliders. Same order of magnitude, anyway. I'd love to see how it works out in practice... One really nice thing is that you can get LWSSes onto any column just by doing INCs and DECs on a diagonal elbow.

Unfortunately there's still a color constraint equivalent to the glider-color problem, because *WSSes travel two cells before returning to their original state... so ideally two different recipes are needed for each *WSS. Or we could just do constructions and destructions with monochromatic *WSSes, if necessary, along the same lines as the half-baked knightship. -- We can clearly get both *WSS colors at some cost, though, because we can build and trigger a *WSS seed in any location... so it's just a matter of finding the cheapest option. With any luck this will be a direct-from-the-elbow *WSS -- or an elbow-to-*WSS conversion which really amounts to the same thing now.

I don't think any searches have ever been done to check whether there's a universal construction toolkit using, say, monochromatic slow LWSSes aimed at a block. So this is a completely new field of research...!

--------------------------------------------

Anyway -- let's see if I'm understanding this idea correctly. Let's assume that we come up with a self-destruct mechanism for the main U.C. body that can be triggered by a single glider. Then the flow of construction and destruction might now look like this:
• the active U.C. (green) builds the main body of the new U.C. (white) plus a freeze-dried slow salvo to the southeast of it (not shown, but it will be between the input and output lanes of the new U.C.);
• the active U.C. builds the west semi-Snark (white) using chris_c's 180-degree slow-salvo technology, plus a final block placement using the elbow directly;
• the active U.C. goes inactive after sending out a final trigger glider (or *WSS);
• the trigger glider immediately activates the self-destruct circuit for the now-inactive U.C., leaving only one target ash object (not shown, but let's say it's just northeast of the southernmost red semi-Snark);
• the self-destruct circuit triggers an older copy of the freeze-dried salvo to the southeast, which builds the southern semi-Snark (white), using an older ash object as the target.
• minor cleanup detail: send a few gliders from somewhere to shoot down the green semi-Snarks in the southwest.
Any other possible simplifications that I'm not seeing? EDIT: replaced "east" with "west" above -- must have had my brain in backwards this morning.

codeholic
Moderator
Posts: 1142
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

I wonder if it might be cheaper (and maybe more elegant) to build the eastern semi-snark with two elbows rather than by freeze-dried salvos. The second elbow would be somewhere at the location of the western semi-snark in this case.
Ivan Fomichev

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:the active U.C. builds the east semi-Snark (white) using chris_c's 180-degree slow-salvo technology, plus a final block placement using the elbow directly
It's the western semi-snark that I am trying to build with the 180 degree gliders. In my head I have moved both of the white semi-snarks over to the NE side of the green UC. Then the eastern semi-snark would be buildable with gliders in the normal fashion. Is this possible or does it break something in the Demonoid design?

Meanwhile, I have been trying to construct the other eater in the semi-snark. It has been difficult to find a recipe that uses a subset of the currently available lanes and avoids destroying the boat that would presumably need to exist already. The closest I found is recipe "e6Tm1,-5:E9 E13 E13 E35 O17 O3 E7 E-1 O21 E33 E3,[-3,-13]" but E35 translates to lane 33 in my system and while I know of recipes that shoot on lane 33, I have not been able to clean them up yet. I am running a hacked search to try to find a viable cleanup (a full depth-5 search is beyond my patience at the moment).

EDIT: missed Dave's edit regarding the east/west confusion. But my question about moving the semi-snarks over to the other side still remains.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

codeholic wrote:I wonder if it might be cheaper (and maybe more elegant) to build the eastern semi-snark with two elbows rather than by freeze-dried salvos. The second elbow would be somewhere at the location of the western semi-snark in this case.
As Chris noticed, I just had to fix my reference to "east semi-Snark" in the last posting -- I meant "west semi-Snark", the one that's northwest of the "south semi-Snark". Sorry for the confusion.

So... by "eastern semi-Snark" you mean the one farthest to the southeast, correct? I could certainly be wrong, but it seems to me that the active U.C. can't build that SE semi-Snark with any direct incremental method, because as long as the (green) U.C. is active, there are gliders going right through the construction site where the next (white) UC's semi-Snark is going to have to be. Seems as if that construction has to be done with freeze-dried salvos, at least in part.

Also, it looks to me as if a two-elbow construction won't be much if any more efficient than a freeze-dried salvo, anyway. Now that there's only a part of one semi-Snark that needs the extra effort, I think a freeze-dried salvo might just be the way to go. I'll re-run those numbers when I get a chance, maybe this weekend. -- And wouldn't you need three elbows to reach around the current active U.C.? I don't see how it could work... not that that necessarily means much.
chris_c wrote:It's the western semi-snark that I am trying to build with the 180 degree gliders. In my head I have moved both of the white semi-snarks over to the NE side of the green UC. Then the eastern semi-snark would be buildable with gliders in the normal fashion. Is this possible or does it break something in the Demonoid design?
Hmm. I put those semi-Snarks at that distance for a reason. They can certainly move, but I can't tell you mathematically what the limits are offhand, except I think that the range is a lot shorter than you're hoping for.

Try this experiment. Put the semi-Snarks where you want them in a single copy of the Demonoid. Make sure that there's even room for them between two adjacent copies of the U.C., since that distance is fixed. Then send one glider through the circuit, with both semi-Snarks set to reflect.

If the glider bouncing through the semi-Snarks gets to the construction arm at anywhere near the same time as the one that comes out through the 4H-to-G converter, then you're in serious trouble. You need at least 497 ticks difference, so that two successive glider signals can be lined up near each other on the construction arm.

Really you want quite a bit more than a 497-tick difference, so that either glider can lead the other one by a few hundred ticks when necessary. If I recall correctly, the location I came up with gives a free choice of minus-256-to-plus-infinity relative timing for the two gliders. It's possible to get by with less -- the spiral-growth pattern manages okay with a minimum around minus 150 ticks on its 10hd construction arm -- but moving the semi-Snarks up to 25 cells closer didn't seem to solve any layout problems.

There might still be a simpler layout, though -- maybe even one with just one semi-Snark and a H-to-G period doubler, somehow? Or maybe one based on simsim314's idea of an "armless" universal constructor with a much wider shooting range, somewhat along the lines of the half-baked knightships. Just because I can't find a working blueprint doesn't mean there isn't one out there...!

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

Ok, thanks for the explanation. This is the kind of stuff that I have completely been neglecting to think about. I will try to digest this as soon as possible.

In the mean time my search for a clean lane 33 shooter was successful. It takes 4 glider pairs to shoot and 6 glider pairs to tidy up... including one singleton glider that escapes and changes the color of the next elbow block! Pretty ugly but hopefully no more dirty tricks like this will be required!

Code: Select all

``````x = 761, y = 761, rule = LifeHistory
759.2C\$759.2C18\$739.2C\$739.2C13\$720.2C\$721.2C\$720.C\$727.2C\$726.C.C\$
728.C73\$652.3C\$654.C\$640.2C11.C\$641.2C\$640.C78\$560.2C\$561.2C\$560.C2\$
566.3C\$568.C\$567.C74\$480.3C\$482.C6.3C\$481.C9.C\$490.C77\$400.3C\$402.C\$
401.C13\$395.3C\$397.C\$396.C63\$320.3C\$322.C\$321.C\$327.C\$327.2C\$326.C.C
75\$240.3C\$242.C\$241.C10\$238.2C\$237.C.C\$239.C66\$160.3C\$162.C\$161.C2\$
166.C\$166.2C\$165.C.C74\$80.3C\$82.C\$81.C3\$85.3C\$87.C\$86.C73\$3C\$2.C\$.C3\$
5.2C\$6.2C\$5.C!
``````
This allows the following construction of the first eater in the semi-snark, assuming that the boat has already been constructed.

Code: Select all

``````x = 4793, y = 4798, rule = LifeHistory
4791.2C\$4791.2C9\$4781.2C\$4781.2C9\$4771.2C\$4771.2C9\$4761.2C\$4761.2C9\$
4751.2C\$4751.2C19\$4731.2C\$4731.2C9\$4721.2C\$4721.2C9\$4711.2C\$4711.2C9\$
4701.2C\$4701.2C70\$4615.2C\$4602.2D11.2C\$4603.D\$4603.D.D\$4604.2D6\$4606.
C\$4605.C.C\$4605.2C32\$4581.3C\$4583.C\$4582.C\$4588.2C\$4587.C.C\$4589.C79\$
4507.2C\$4506.C.C\$4508.C2\$4493.2C\$4492.C.C\$4494.C74\$4427.2C\$4426.C.C\$
4428.C\$4414.3C\$4416.C\$4415.C63\$4349.2C\$4348.C.C\$4350.C10\$4347.2C\$
4346.C.C\$4348.C74\$4261.3C\$4263.C\$4262.C2\$4267.2C\$4266.C.C\$4268.C78\$
4177.2C8.2C\$4178.2C6.C.C\$4177.C10.C60\$4115.3C\$4117.C\$4116.C\$4122.2C\$
4121.C.C\$4123.C82\$4038.2C\$4037.C.C\$4026.C12.C\$4026.2C\$4025.C.C76\$
3958.2C\$3947.2C8.C.C\$3946.C.C10.C\$3948.C65\$3880.C\$3880.2C\$3879.C.C10\$
3878.2C\$3877.C.C\$3879.C78\$3798.2C\$3797.C.C\$3799.C3\$3783.2C\$3784.2C\$
3783.C73\$3718.2C\$3707.2C8.C.C\$3708.2C9.C\$3707.C49\$3656.3C\$3658.C\$
3657.C\$3663.2C\$3662.C.C\$3664.C82\$3579.2C\$3578.C.C\$3567.C12.C\$3567.2C\$
3566.C.C76\$3499.2C\$3488.2C8.C.C\$3487.C.C10.C\$3489.C65\$3421.C\$3421.2C\$
3420.C.C10\$3419.2C\$3418.C.C\$3420.C78\$3339.2C\$3338.C.C\$3340.C3\$3324.2C
\$3325.2C\$3324.C73\$3259.2C\$3248.2C8.C.C\$3249.2C9.C\$3248.C81\$3165.3C\$
3167.C\$3166.C\$3172.2C\$3171.C.C\$3173.C75\$3085.3C\$3087.C\$3086.C4\$3089.C
\$3089.2C\$3088.C.C66\$3011.2C\$3010.C.C\$3012.C10\$3009.C\$3009.2C\$3008.C.C
72\$2925.2C\$2924.C.C\$2926.C4\$2929.C\$2929.2C\$2928.C.C69\$2848.2C\$2847.C.
C\$2849.C7\$2849.2C\$2848.C.C\$2850.C78\$2769.2C\$2768.C.C\$2770.C3\$2754.2C\$
2753.C.C\$2755.C67\$2685.2C\$2686.2C\$2685.C4\$2689.2C\$2688.C.C\$2690.C78\$
2609.2C\$2608.C.C\$2610.C\$2596.3C\$2598.C\$2597.C70\$2524.2C\$2525.2C\$2524.
C3\$2529.2C\$2528.C.C\$2530.C73\$2444.2C\$2443.C.C\$2445.C3\$2449.2C\$2448.C.
C\$2450.C73\$2364.C\$2364.2C\$2363.C.C3\$2369.2C\$2368.C.C\$2370.C72\$2285.3C
\$2287.C\$2286.C4\$2289.2C\$2288.C.C\$2290.C81\$2196.C\$2196.2C\$2195.C.C4\$
2200.3C\$2202.C\$2201.C72\$2116.C\$2116.2C\$2115.C.C11\$2113.2C\$2112.C.C\$
2114.C65\$2036.2C\$2035.C.C\$2037.C4\$2040.3C\$2042.C\$2041.C72\$1956.C\$
1956.2C\$1955.C.C\$1963.C\$1963.2C\$1962.C.C75\$1876.C\$1876.2C\$1875.C.C9\$
1875.2C\$1876.2C\$1875.C67\$1796.2C\$1795.C.C\$1797.C2\$1802.C\$1802.2C\$
1801.C.C44\$1746.C\$1746.2C\$1745.C.C10\$1744.2C\$1745.2C\$1744.C66\$1666.C\$
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1119.C.C\$1121.C13\$1115.2C\$1116.2C\$1115.C67\$1036.2C\$1035.C.C\$1037.C9\$
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645.C.C8\$646.3C\$648.C\$647.C68\$566.C\$566.2C\$565.C.C2\$572.C\$572.2C\$571.
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245.3C\$247.C\$246.C8\$245.2C\$246.2C\$245.C68\$165.3C\$167.C\$166.C8\$165.3C\$
167.C\$166.C68\$85.3C\$87.C6.2C\$86.C8.2C\$94.C77\$5.3C\$7.C\$6.C12\$.C\$.2C\$C.
C!
``````

dvgrn
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Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
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### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:Ok, thanks for the explanation. This is the kind of stuff that I have completely been neglecting to think about. I will try to digest this as soon as possible.
Here's a revised blueprint -- hopefully a little simpler -- with a quick comparison of two possible semi-Snark placements:

Code: Select all

``````x = 959, y = 340, rule = LifeHistory
245.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$244.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$243.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$242.4B
6.4B528.4B6.4B\$241.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$240.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$239.4B6.4B
528.4B6.4B\$238.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$237.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$236.4B6.4B528.4B
6.4B\$235.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$234.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$233.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$
232.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$231.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$230.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$229.4B
6.4B528.4B6.4B\$228.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$227.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$226.4B6.4B
528.4B6.4B\$225.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$224.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$223.4B6.4B528.4B
6.4B\$222.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$221.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$220.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$
219.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$218.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$217.4B6.4B528.4B6.4B\$216.4B
6.4B528.4B6.4B\$215.4B6.5B527.4B6.5B\$214.4B6.6B526.4B6.6B\$213.4B5.9B
11.D512.4B5.9B11.D\$212.4B6.9B9.3D511.4B6.9B9.3D\$211.4B6.10B8.D513.4B
6.10B8.D\$210.4B6.12B7.2D8.2D501.4B6.12B7.2D8.2D\$209.4B6.18B.3B8.D501.
4B6.18B.3B8.D\$208.4B6.21B7.BD.D500.4B6.21B7.BD.D\$207.4B6.24B3.B.B2D
12.2D486.4B6.24B3.B.B2D12.2D\$206.4B6.4B2.25B13.D.D485.4B6.4B2.25B13.D
.D\$205.4B6.4B3.24B14.D11.D474.4B6.4B3.24B14.D11.D\$204.4B6.4B4.15B2D8B
12.2D9.3D473.4B6.4B4.15B2D8B12.2D9.3D\$203.4B6.4B5.15B2D7B13.B9.D475.
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26B10.3B9.2D10.2D\$201.4B6.4B3.2D27B8.6B5.5B10.D461.4B6.4B3.2D27B8.6B
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14B13.2D7.16B2D2B.B\$188.4B6.4B24.6B7.12B15.D8.19B436.4B6.4B24.6B7.12B
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10B\$186.4B6.4B27.B2D2B12.3B.4B11.D19.9B436.4B6.4B27.B2D2B12.3B.4B11.D
19.9B\$185.4B6.4B29.2D21.B2D30.9B8.D7.D417.4B6.4B29.2D21.B2D30.9B8.D7.
D\$184.4B6.4B53.BD.D30.7B7.3D5.3D11.D404.4B6.4B53.BD.D30.7B7.3D5.3D11.
D\$183.4B6.4B57.D31.6B6.D7.D14.3D401.4B6.4B57.D31.6B6.D7.D14.3D\$182.4B
6.4B58.2D29.6B7.2D6.2D16.D14.D384.4B6.4B58.2D29.6B7.2D6.2D16.D14.D\$
181.4B6.4B89.8B4.4B4.4B15.2D12.3D383.4B6.4B89.8B4.4B4.4B15.2D12.3D\$
180.4B6.4B91.8B2.3B5.3B5.B.7B3.3B.2B7.D385.4B6.4B91.8B2.3B5.3B5.B.7B
3.3B.2B7.D\$179.4B6.4B92.13B4.4B.13B5.5B6.2D383.4B6.4B92.13B4.4B.13B5.
5B6.2D\$178.4B6.4B93.46B2.5B382.4B6.4B93.46B2.5B\$177.4B6.4B94.51B383.
4B6.4B94.51B\$176.4B6.4B95.50B2D381.4B6.4B95.50B2D\$175.4B6.4B95.32B2D
17B2D380.4B6.4B95.32B2D17B2D\$174.4B6.4B94.34B2D16B.B380.4B6.4B94.34B
2D16B.B\$173.4B6.4B95.22B2.2B3.23B381.4B6.4B95.22B2.2B3.23B\$172.4B6.4B
95.20B11.10B2.9B381.4B6.4B95.20B11.10B2.9B\$171.4B6.4B96.21B13.6B3.8B
381.4B6.4B96.21B13.6B3.8B\$170.4B6.4B97.17B.4B14.3B4.7B381.4B6.4B97.
17B.4B14.3B4.7B\$169.4B6.4B97.19B.4B15.B3.11B377.4B6.4B97.19B.4B15.B3.
11B\$168.4B6.4B96.21B2.4B14.2D2.12B375.4B6.4B96.21B2.4B14.2D2.12B\$167.
4B6.4B97.21B3.4B14.D2.12B374.4B6.4B97.21B3.4B14.D2.12B\$166.4B6.4B97.
20B6.4B10.3D4.11B373.4B6.4B97.20B6.4B10.3D4.11B\$165.4B6.4B99.20B6.4B
9.D4.4B.8B372.4B6.4B99.20B6.4B9.D4.4B.8B\$164.4B6.4B101.19B7.4B13.2D4.
7B371.4B6.4B101.19B7.4B13.2D4.7B\$163.4B6.4B102.18B9.4B13.D4.7B353.2D
8.D6.4B6.4B102.18B9.4B13.D4.7B\$162.4B6.4B104.17B10.4B9.3D6.6B352.B2DB
5.3D5.4B6.4B104.17B10.4B9.3D6.6B\$161.4B6.4B105.16B12.4B8.D8.7B352.3B
4.D7.4B6.4B105.16B12.4B8.D8.7B\$160.4B7.4B106.14B14.4B16.8B343.2D5.B.B
5.2D5.4B7.4B106.14B14.4B16.8B\$159.4B7.5B107.13B15.4B16.8B343.D5.10B4.
4B7.5B107.13B15.4B16.8B\$158.4B5.9B11.A97.11B15.4B15.9B342.D.DB2.8B5.
4B5.9B11.A97.11B15.4B15.9B\$157.4B6.9B9.3A98.9B17.4B13.6B.4B342.2DB.
11B2.4B6.9B9.3A98.9B17.4B13.6B.4B\$156.4B7.9B8.A101.7B20.4B12.7B.4B
343.18B7.9B8.A101.7B20.4B12.7B.4B\$155.4B8.10B7.2A8.2A91.4B23.4B12.6B
2.4B342.5B2D10B8.10B7.2A8.2A91.4B23.4B12.6B2.4B\$154.4B8.16B.3B8.A93.
4B23.4B4.B4.8B3.4B342.4B2D9B8.16B.3B8.A93.4B23.4B4.B4.8B3.4B\$153.4B8.
19B7.BA.A94.4B23.2B3.4B.6B2DB5.4B341.14B8.19B7.BA.A94.4B23.2B3.4B.6B
2DB5.4B\$152.4B10.20B3.B.B2A12.2A82.4B21.17B2D2B5.4B340.14B9.20B3.B.B
2A12.2A82.4B21.17B2D2B5.4B\$151.4B12.25B13.A.A83.4B21.19B7.4B338.D.14B
9.25B13.A.A83.4B21.19B7.4B\$150.4B13.24B14.A11.A74.4B20.18B9.4B336.D.D
5.5B.4B8.24B14.A11.A74.4B20.18B9.4B\$149.4B14.25B12.2A9.3A75.4B21.13B
13.4B335.2D6.5B2.4B7.25B12.2A9.3A75.4B21.13B13.4B\$148.4B15.24B13.B9.A
79.4B22.12B13.4B341.4B5.4B6.24B13.B9.A79.4B22.12B13.4B\$147.4B13.B.26B
10.3B9.2A10.2A67.4B23.10B14.4B339.6B5.4B2.B.26B10.3B9.2A10.2A67.4B23.
10B14.4B\$146.4B13.2A17B2A8B8.6B5.5B10.A69.4B22.11B14.4B337.4B2DB6.4B
2A17B2A8B8.6B5.5B10.A69.4B22.11B14.4B\$145.4B14.2AB.15B2A9B4.10B3.4B9.
BA.A70.4B22.2B.7B15.4B335.4B.2D8.3B2AB.15B2A9B4.10B3.4B9.BA.A70.4B22.
2B.7B15.4B\$144.4B16.B4.24B3.11B2.6B4.3B.B2A72.4B21.11B15.4B333.4B13.
4B4.24B3.11B2.6B4.3B.B2A72.4B21.11B15.4B\$143.4B22.32B2A13B.7B75.4B19.
11B17.4B331.4B15.4B3.32B2A13B.7B75.4B19.11B17.4B\$142.4B23.32B2A21B20.
A55.4B18.11B18.4B329.4B17.4B2.32B2A21B20.A55.4B18.11B18.4B\$141.4B25.
7B2.3B2A39B11.2A6.3A56.4B17.11B19.4B327.4B19.4B2.7B2.3B2A39B11.2A6.3A
56.4B17.11B19.4B\$140.4B26.7B2.3B2A40B9.B2AB4.A60.4B16.8B2.B2D18.4B
325.4B21.4B.7B2.3B2A40B9.B2AB4.A60.4B16.8B2.B2D18.4B\$139.4B27.6B4.46B
8.3B4.2A60.4B15.7B3.BD.D18.4B323.4B23.10B4.46B8.3B4.2A60.4B15.7B3.BD.
D18.4B\$138.4B28.7B5.23B3.B.19B2.2B2.B2.5B61.4B14.7B6.D19.4B321.4B25.
10B5.23B3.B.19B2.2B2.B2.5B61.4B14.7B6.D19.4B\$137.4B29.6B6.15B.7B7.29B
64.4B13.6B7.2D19.4B319.4B27.8B6.15B.7B7.29B64.4B13.6B7.2D19.4B\$136.4B
29.7B7.13B16.6B.21B2A64.4B11.7B29.4B317.4B29.7B7.13B16.6B.21B2A64.4B
11.7B29.4B\$118.2D8.D6.4B31.6B7.14B13.5B.B2.16B2A3B2A65.4B9.8B30.4B
315.4B31.6B7.14B13.5B.B2.16B2A3B2A65.4B9.8B30.4B\$117.B2DB5.3D5.4B33.
5B7.14B13.2A7.16B2A2B.B67.4B7.8B32.4B313.4B33.5B7.14B13.2A7.16B2A2B.B
67.4B7.8B32.4B\$118.3B4.D7.4B34.6B7.12B15.A8.19B70.4B5.9B33.4B311.4B
34.6B7.12B15.A8.19B70.4B5.9B33.4B\$110.2D5.B.B5.2D5.4B37.4B11.9B11.3A
16.10B73.4B3.4B.6B33.4B309.3B38.4B11.9B11.3A16.10B73.4B3.4B.6B33.4B\$
111.D5.10B4.4B37.B2A2B12.3B.4B11.A19.9B74.4B.4B.7B34.4B307.4B37.B2A3B
11.3B.4B11.A19.9B74.4B.4B.7B34.4B\$111.D.DB2.8B5.4B39.2A21.B2A30.9B8.A
7.A57.7B2.6B36.4B305.4B39.2A4B17.B2A30.9B8.A7.A57.7B2.6B36.4B\$112.2DB
.11B2.4B63.BA.A30.7B7.3A5.3A11.A46.5B3.6B37.4B303.4B43.4B16.BA.A30.7B
7.3A5.3A11.A46.5B3.6B37.4B\$114.18B67.A31.6B6.A7.A14.3A44.5B4.B2D2B38.
4B301.4B45.4B18.A31.6B6.A7.A14.3A44.5B4.B2D2B38.4B\$114.5B2D10B68.2A
29.6B7.2A6.2A16.A14.A27.7B2.2B2D3B38.4B299.4B47.4B17.2A29.6B7.2A6.2A
16.A14.A27.7B2.2B2D3B38.4B\$115.4B2D9B99.8B4.4B4.4B15.2A12.3A26.4B.4B.
7B39.4B297.4B49.4B46.8B4.4B4.4B15.2A12.3A26.4B.4B.7B39.4B\$115.14B101.
8B2.3B5.3B5.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A28.4B3.4B.5B41.4B295.4B51.4B46.8B2.3B5.3B5.
B.7B3.3B.2B7.A28.4B3.4B.5B41.4B\$115.14B101.13B4.4B.13B5.5B6.2A26.4B5.
9B42.4B293.4B53.4B45.13B4.4B.13B5.5B6.2A26.4B5.9B42.4B\$114.D.14B100.
46B2.5B25.4B7.8B43.4B291.4B55.4B44.46B2.5B25.4B7.8B43.4B\$113.D.D5.5B.
4B99.51B26.4B9.7B44.4B289.4B57.4B43.51B26.4B9.7B44.4B\$113.2D6.5B2.4B
98.50B2A24.4B11.6B7.2D36.4B287.4B59.4B42.50B2A24.4B11.6B7.2D36.4B\$
120.4B5.4B96.32B2A17B2A23.4B4.2D5.7B7.D38.4B285.4B61.4B40.32B2A17B2A
23.4B4.2D5.7B7.D38.4B\$119.6B5.4B93.34B2A16B.B23.4B6.D6.7B3.BD.D39.4B
283.4B63.4B37.34B2A16B.B23.4B6.D6.7B3.BD.D39.4B\$118.4B2DB6.4B92.22B2.
2B3.23B24.4B7.D.DB.11B.B2D41.4B281.4B65.4B36.22B2.2B3.23B24.4B7.D.DB.
11B.B2D41.4B\$117.4B.2D8.4B90.20B11.10B2.9B24.4B9.2DB.2BD10B44.4B279.
4B67.4B34.20B11.10B2.9B24.4B9.2DB.2BD10B44.4B\$116.4B13.4B89.21B13.6B
3.8B24.4B12.3BDBD10B44.4B277.4B69.4B33.21B13.6B3.8B24.4B12.3BDBD10B
44.4B\$115.4B15.4B88.17B.4B14.3B4.7B24.4B13.3BDBD9B46.4B275.4B71.4B32.
17B.4B14.3B4.7B24.4B13.3BDBD9B46.4B\$114.4B17.4B86.19B.4B15.B3.11B20.
4B16.2BD8B.B2D45.4B273.4B73.4B30.19B.4B15.B3.11B20.4B16.2BD8B.B2D45.
4B\$113.4B19.4B83.21B2.4B14.2A2.12B18.4B19.8B2.BD.D45.4B271.4B75.4B27.
21B2.4B14.2A2.12B18.4B19.8B2.BD.D45.4B\$112.4B21.4B82.21B3.4B14.A2.12B
17.4B20.3B2.4B4.D46.4B269.4B77.4B26.21B3.4B14.A2.12B17.4B20.3B2.4B4.D
46.4B\$111.4B23.4B80.20B6.4B10.3A4.11B16.4B19.5B3.4B3.2D46.4B267.4B79.
4B24.20B6.4B10.3A4.11B16.4B19.5B3.4B3.2D46.4B\$110.4B25.4B80.20B6.4B9.
A4.4B.8B15.4B20.2DB6.4B51.4B265.4B81.4B24.20B6.4B9.A4.4B.8B15.4B20.2D
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101.B!``````
In both cases, the current U.C. (green) has to build the future U.C. (red) -- but one of the red semi-Snarks is in the way of the current U.C., and therefore can't be built by the current U.C. (except with a freeze-dried salvo or other such trickery.) I have the past (destroyed) U.C. in blue now, which is maybe less distracting.

The Demonoid on the right has its semi-Snarks moved in by just 28 cells, to a reasonable-looking position. The future semi-Snarks are still on the wrong side of the current U.C., and we can't move them more than three cells farther. As it is, it's barely possible to get a glider on the SE construction-arm lane before the NW glider gets there. The left-hand Demonoid's SE glider can lead by 60+ cells, where the right-hand Demonoid can only manage 10+ cells, or maybe about 50 ticks.

EDIT: Miinus-50-to-infinity relative timing of glider pairs is probably just barely enough for universality, but I seem to recall you'd have to throw out quite a few good elbow operations. This especially applies to the glider-shooting recipes, since you can maybe salvage a lot of the elbow moves by using the mirror-image recipe.

This Demonoid is run by quadruplets of gliders, so theoretically there are two more gliders coming along that you could use instead, to improve the timing somehow. But I'm pretty sure all you can do is make the problem worse, because you really want to deliver a trailing glider to the construction arm as soon as possible after a leading glider is sent out through the semi-Snarks.
chris_c wrote:In the mean time my search for a clean lane 33 shooter was successful. It takes 4 glider pairs to shoot and 6 glider pairs to tidy up... including one singleton glider that escapes and changes the color of the next elbow block! Pretty ugly but hopefully no more dirty tricks like this will be required!
...
This allows the following construction of the first eater in the semi-snark, assuming that the boat has already been constructed.
Beautiful! I don't know what you mean by "ugly"; there's no such thing as dirty tricks in this business. As long as it works once, it will work forever.

That elbow-block color changing trick is one of the main reasons I was really interested in switching over from 9hd construction-arm lanes to 10hd spacing -- especially once I discovered that a single pair of gliders could change the block color back again.

Really it would be nice to have a Demonoid design that allows singleton gliders on either lane, instead of requiring pairs -- you'd get another big boost in construction efficiency there. But it seems as if you'd really need about twice as much circuitry to be able to encode singletons, along the lines of the old original Demonoids... and the efficiency improvement isn't that big.

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:Here's a revised blueprint -- hopefully a little simpler -- with a quick comparison of two possible semi-Snark placements
Ok the penny has dropped. It was a total misunderstanding of the design on my part. I was talking about taking the first pattern and moving all of the red cells north-east by, say, 100 cells. Problem solved: the south east semi-snark is now easy to construct. What I didn't realise is that the offset between the red cells and the green cells has to be 55fd because the distance between the input and the output lanes is 55hd. The gliders zig-zag their way along without any need for a special "copy gliders" phase that is necessary in other constructions I have seen.

But now for an idea..... I took your pattern on the left and shifted all of the Herschel related stuff north east by 25 cells and then added 8 still lifes per iteration. These are seeds for the upcoming semi-snarks but because they are transparent to all of the reactions in every iteration they can be constructed 3 iterations in advance using normal single elbow operations.

Anyway, here's the pattern:

Code: Select all

``````x = 442, y = 365, rule = LifeHistory
270.4B6.4B\$269.4B6.4B\$268.4B6.4B\$267.4B6.4B\$266.4B6.4B\$265.4B6.4B\$
264.4B6.4B\$263.4B6.4B\$262.4B6.4B\$261.4B6.4B\$260.4B6.4B\$259.4B6.4B\$
258.4B6.4B\$257.4B6.4B\$256.4B6.4B\$255.4B6.4B\$254.4B6.4B\$253.4B6.4B\$
252.4B6.4B\$251.4B6.4B\$250.4B6.4B\$249.4B6.4B\$248.4B6.4B\$247.4B6.4B\$
246.4B6.4B\$245.4B6.4B\$244.4B6.4B\$243.4B6.4B\$242.4B6.4B\$241.4B6.4B\$
240.4B6.5B\$239.4B6.6B\$238.4B5.9B11.D\$237.4B6.9B9.3D\$236.4B6.10B8.D\$
235.4B6.12B7.2D8.2D\$234.4B6.18B.3B8.D\$233.4B6.21B7.BD.D\$232.4B6.24B3.
B.B2D12.2D\$231.4B6.4B2.25B13.D.D\$230.4B6.4B3.24B14.D11.D\$229.4B6.4B4.
15B2D8B12.2D9.3D\$228.4B6.4B5.15B2D7B13.B9.D\$227.4B6.4B3.B.26B10.3B9.
2D10.2D\$226.4B6.4B3.2D27B8.6B5.5B10.D\$225.4B6.4B4.2DB.26B4.10B3.4B9.B
D.D\$224.4B6.4B6.B4.24B3.11B2.6B4.3B.B2D\$223.4B6.4B12.32B2D13B.7B\$222.
4B6.4B13.32B2D21B20.D\$221.4B6.4B15.7B2.44B11.2D6.3D\$220.4B6.4B16.7B2.
45B9.B2DB4.D\$219.4B6.4B17.6B4.46B8.3B4.2D\$218.4B6.4B18.7B5.23B3.B.19B
2.2B2.B2.5B\$217.4B6.4B19.6B6.15B.7B7.29B\$216.4B6.4B19.7B7.13B16.6B.
21B2D\$215.4B6.4B21.6B7.14B13.5B.B2.16B2D3B2D\$214.4B6.4B23.5B7.14B13.
2D7.16B2D2B.B\$213.4B6.4B24.6B7.12B15.D8.19B\$212.4B6.4B27.4B11.9B11.3D
16.10B\$211.4B6.4B27.B2D2B12.3B.4B11.D19.9B\$210.4B6.4B29.2D21.B2D30.9B
8.D7.D\$209.4B6.4B53.BD.D30.7B7.3D5.3D11.D\$208.4B6.4B57.D31.6B6.D7.D
14.3D\$207.4B6.4B58.2D29.6B7.2D6.2D16.D14.D\$206.4B6.4B89.8B4.4B4.4B15.
2D12.3D\$205.4B6.4B91.8B2.3B5.3B5.B.7B3.3B.2B7.D\$204.4B6.4B92.13B4.4B.
13B5.5B6.2D\$203.4B6.4B93.46B2.5B\$202.4B6.4B94.51B\$201.4B6.4B95.50B2D\$
200.4B6.4B95.32B2D17B2D\$199.4B6.4B94.34B2D16B.B12.2D\$198.4B6.4B95.22B
2.2B3.23B15.D\$197.4B6.4B95.20B11.10B2.9B16.D.D\$196.4B6.4B96.21B13.6B
3.8B18.2D\$195.4B6.4B97.17B.4B14.3B4.7B\$194.4B6.4B97.19B.4B15.B3.11B9.
2D\$193.4B6.4B96.21B2.4B14.2D2.12B8.2D\$192.4B6.4B97.21B3.4B14.D2.12B\$
191.4B6.4B97.20B6.4B10.3D4.11B\$190.4B6.4B99.20B6.4B9.D4.4B.8B22.2D\$
189.4B6.4B101.19B7.4B13.2D4.7B4.2D16.2D\$188.4B6.4B102.18B9.4B13.D4.7B
3.D2.D\$187.4B6.4B104.17B10.4B9.3D6.6B4.2D\$186.4B6.4B105.16B12.4B8.D8.
7B25.D\$185.4B7.4B106.14B14.4B16.8B23.D.D\$184.4B7.5B107.13B15.4B16.8B
15.2D6.2D\$183.4B5.9B11.A97.11B15.4B15.9B15.D\$182.4B6.9B9.3A98.9B17.4B
13.6B.4B11.3D\$181.4B7.9B8.A101.7B20.4B12.7B.4B10.D\$180.4B8.10B7.2A8.
2A91.4B23.4B12.6B2.4B\$179.4B8.16B.3B8.A93.4B23.4B4.B4.8B3.4B\$178.4B8.
19B7.BA.A94.4B23.2B3.4B.6B2DB5.4B\$177.4B10.20B3.B.B2A12.2A82.4B21.17B
2D2B5.4B\$176.4B12.25B13.A.A83.4B21.19B7.4B\$175.4B13.24B14.A11.A74.4B
20.18B9.4B\$174.4B14.25B12.2A9.3A75.4B21.13B13.4B\$173.4B15.24B13.B9.A
79.4B22.12B13.4B\$172.4B13.B.26B10.3B9.2A10.2A67.4B23.10B14.4B\$171.4B
13.2A17B2A8B8.6B5.5B10.A69.4B22.11B8.2D4.4B\$170.4B14.2AB.15B2A9B4.10B
3.4B9.BA.A70.4B22.2B.7B7.D.D5.4B\$169.4B16.B4.24B3.11B2.6B4.3B.B2A72.
4B21.11B7.D7.4B\$168.4B22.32B2A13B.7B75.4B19.11B17.4B\$167.4B23.32B2A
21B20.A55.4B18.11B18.4B\$166.4B25.7B2.3B2A39B11.2A6.3A56.4B17.11B19.4B
\$165.4B26.7B2.3B2A40B9.B2AB4.A60.4B16.8B2.B2D18.4B\$164.4B27.6B4.46B8.
3B4.2A60.4B15.7B3.BD.D18.4B\$163.4B28.7B5.23B3.B.19B2.2B2.B2.5B61.4B
14.7B6.D19.4B\$162.4B29.6B6.15B.7B7.29B64.4B13.6B7.2D19.4B\$161.4B29.7B
7.13B16.6B.21B2A64.4B11.7B29.4B\$160.4B31.6B7.14B13.5B.B2.16B2A3B2A65.
4B9.8B30.4B\$159.4B33.5B7.14B13.2A7.16B2A2B.B67.4B7.8B32.4B\$158.4B34.
6B7.12B15.A8.19B70.4B5.9B33.4B\$157.4B37.4B11.9B11.3A16.10B73.4B3.4B.
6B33.4B\$156.4B37.B2A2B12.3B.4B11.A19.9B74.4B.4B.7B34.4B\$155.4B39.2A
21.B2A30.9B8.A7.A57.7B2.6B36.4B\$154.4B63.BA.A30.7B7.3A5.3A11.A46.5B3.
6B37.4B\$153.4B67.A31.6B6.A7.A14.3A44.5B4.B2D2B38.4B\$152.4B68.2A29.6B
7.2A6.2A16.A14.A27.7B2.2B2D3B38.4B\$151.4B99.8B4.4B4.4B15.2A12.3A26.4B
.4B.7B39.4B\$150.4B101.8B2.3B5.3B5.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A28.4B3.4B.5B41.4B\$
149.4B102.13B4.4B.13B5.5B6.2A26.4B5.9B42.4B\$148.4B103.46B2.5B25.4B7.
8B43.4B\$147.4B104.51B26.4B9.7B44.4B\$146.4B105.50B2A24.4B11.6B7.2D36.
4B\$145.4B105.32B2A17B2A23.4B4.2D5.7B7.D38.4B\$144.4B104.34B2A16B.B12.
2A9.4B6.D6.7B3.BD.D39.4B\$143.4B105.22B2.2B3.23B15.A8.4B7.D.DB.11B.B2D
41.4B\$142.4B105.20B11.10B2.9B16.A.A5.4B9.2DB.2BD10B44.4B\$141.4B106.
21B13.6B3.8B18.2A4.4B12.3BDBD10B44.4B\$140.4B107.17B.4B14.3B4.7B24.4B
13.3BDBD9B46.4B\$139.4B107.19B.4B15.B3.11B9.2A9.4B7.2D7.2BD8B.B2D45.4B
\$138.4B106.21B2.4B14.2A2.12B8.2A8.4B8.2D9.8B2.BD.D45.4B\$137.4B107.21B
3.4B14.A2.12B17.4B20.3B2.4B4.D46.4B\$136.4B107.20B6.4B10.3A4.11B16.4B
19.5B3.4B3.2D46.4B\$118.2D8.D6.4B109.20B6.4B9.A4.4B.8B15.4B3.2A15.2DB
6.4B51.4B\$117.B2DB5.3D5.4B111.19B7.4B13.2A4.7B4.2A8.4B4.2A16.D8.4B51.
3B\$118.3B4.D7.4B112.18B9.4B13.A4.7B3.A2.A6.4B20.3D10.4B51.2B\$110.2D5.
B.B5.2D5.4B114.17B10.4B9.3A6.6B4.2A6.4B21.D13.4B51.B\$111.D5.10B4.4B
115.16B12.4B8.A8.7B10.4B11.A25.4B\$111.D.DB2.8B5.4B117.14B14.4B16.8B8.
4B11.A.A25.4B\$112.2DB.11B2.4B119.13B15.4B16.8B6.4B5.2A6.2A26.4B\$114.
18B25.B97.11B15.4B15.9B4.4B7.A35.4B\$114.5B2D10B24.3B98.9B17.4B13.6B.
4B2.4B5.3A37.4B\$115.4B2D9B24.B101.7B20.4B12.7B.8B6.A40.4B\$115.14B25.
2B8.2B91.4B23.4B12.6B2.6B49.4B\$115.14B35.B93.4B23.4B4.B4.8B3.4B51.4B\$
114.D.14B32.B.B94.4B23.2B3.4B.6B2AB3.6B51.4B\$113.D.D5.5B.4B31.2B12.2B
82.4B21.17B2A2B.8B51.4B\$113.2D6.5B2.4B43.B.B83.4B21.19B.4B2.4B51.4B\$
120.4B5.4B42.B11.B74.4B20.18B.4B4.4B51.4B\$119.6B5.4B40.2B9.3B75.4B21.
13B3.4B6.4B51.4B\$118.4B2DB6.4B49.B79.4B22.12B.4B8.4B51.4B\$117.4B.2D8.
4B48.2B10.2B67.4B23.14B10.4B51.4B\$116.4B13.4B15.2B42.B69.4B22.13B6.2A
4.4B51.4B\$115.4B15.4B14.2B40.B.B70.4B22.2B.8B6.A.A5.4B51.4B\$114.4B17.
4B55.2B72.4B21.11B7.A7.4B51.4B\$113.4B19.4B31.2B96.4B19.11B17.4B51.4B\$
112.4B21.4B30.2B41.B55.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B\$111.4B23.4B10.2B50.2B6.3B
56.4B17.11B19.4B51.4B\$110.4B25.4B9.2B50.2B5.B60.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B51.
4B\$109.4B27.4B67.2B60.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B51.4B\$108.4B29.4B129.4B14.7B
6.A19.4B51.4B\$107.4B31.4B129.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B51.4B\$106.4B33.4B63.2B
64.4B11.7B29.4B51.4B\$105.4B35.4B57.2B3.2B65.4B9.8B30.4B51.4B\$104.4B
37.4B31.2B23.2B71.4B7.8B32.4B51.4B\$103.4B39.4B31.B97.4B5.9B33.4B51.4B
\$102.4B41.4B27.3B99.4B3.4B.6B33.4B51.4B\$101.4B38.2B3.4B26.B102.4B.4B.
7B34.4B51.4B\$100.4B39.2B22.2B47.B7.B57.7B2.6B36.4B51.4B\$99.4B64.B.B
44.3B5.3B11.B46.5B3.6B37.4B51.4B\$98.4B67.B43.B7.B14.3B44.5B4.B2A2B38.
4B51.4B\$97.4B68.2B42.2B6.2B16.B14.B27.7B2.2B2A3B38.4B51.4B\$96.4B138.
2B12.3B26.4B.4B.7B39.4B51.4B\$95.4B152.B28.4B3.4B.5B41.4B51.4B\$94.4B
153.2B26.4B5.9B42.4B51.4B\$93.4B181.4B7.8B43.4B51.4B\$92.4B181.4B9.7B
44.4B51.4B\$91.4B155.2B24.4B11.6B7.2A36.4B51.4B\$90.4B137.2B17.2B23.4B
4.2A5.7B7.A38.4B51.4B\$89.4B138.2B30.2C9.4B6.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B51.4B\$88.
4B172.C8.4B7.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B51.4B\$87.4B173.C.C5.4B9.2AB.2BA10B44.4B
51.4B\$86.4B175.2C4.4B12.3BABA10B44.4B51.4B\$85.4B181.4B13.3BABA9B46.4B
51.4B\$84.4B170.2C9.4B7.2A7.2BA8B.B2A45.4B51.4B\$83.4B147.2B22.2C8.4B8.
2A9.8B2.BA.A45.4B51.4B\$82.4B149.B31.4B20.3B2.4B4.A46.4B51.4B\$81.4B
147.3B31.4B19.5B3.4B3.2A46.4B51.4B\$63.2A8.A6.4B148.B32.4B3.2C15.2AB6.
4B51.4B51.4B\$62.B2AB5.3A5.4B154.2B15.2C8.4B4.2C16.A8.4B51.4B51.3B\$63.
3B4.A7.4B156.B14.C2.C6.4B20.3A10.4B51.4B51.2B\$55.2A5.B.B5.2A5.4B154.
3B16.2C6.4B21.A13.4B51.4B51.B\$56.A5.10B4.4B155.B25.4B11.C25.4B51.4B\$
56.A.AB2.8B5.4B172.B8.4B11.C.C25.4B51.4B\$57.2AB.11B2.4B173.2B6.4B5.2C
6.2C26.4B51.4B\$59.18B174.3B4.4B7.C35.4B51.4B\$59.5B2A10B175.4B2.4B5.3C
37.4B51.4B\$60.4B2A9B177.8B6.C40.4B51.4B\$60.14B179.6B49.4B51.4B\$60.14B
180.4B51.4B51.4B\$59.A.14B172.2B4.6B51.4B51.4B\$58.A.A5.5B.4B171.2B3.8B
51.4B51.4B\$58.2A6.5B2.4B174.4B2.4B51.4B51.4B\$65.4B5.4B173.3B4.4B51.2B
2A51.4B\$67.3B5.4B172.2B6.4B51.BABA51.4B\$67.2AB6.4B171.B8.4B51.A3B51.
4B\$67.2A8.4B180.4B51.4B51.4B\$78.4B174.2C4.4B51.4B51.4B\$79.4B172.C.C5.
4B51.4B51.4B\$80.4B172.C7.4B51.4B51.4B\$81.4B180.4B51.4B51.4B\$82.4B180.
4B51.4B51.4B\$83.4B180.4B51.4B51.4B\$84.4B160.2B18.4B51.4B51.4B\$85.4B
159.B.B73.4B51.4B\$86.4B160.B74.4B51.4B\$87.4B159.2B74.4B51.4B\$88.4B
235.4B51.4B\$89.4B235.4B51.4B\$90.4B235.4B51.4B\$91.4B235.4B51.4B\$92.4B
235.4B51.4B\$93.4B235.4B51.4B\$94.4B235.4B51.4B\$95.4B235.4B51.4B\$96.4B
138.2B95.4B51.4B\$97.4B137.2B96.4B51.4B\$98.4B235.4B51.4B\$99.4B235.4B
51.4B\$100.4B235.4B51.4B\$101.4B235.4B51.4B\$102.4B235.4B51.4B\$103.4B
142.2B91.4B51.4B\$104.4B120.2B19.B93.4B51.4B\$105.4B99.2D19.B17.B.B94.
4B51.4B\$106.4B99.D19.B.B15.2B96.4B51.4B\$107.4B98.D.D18.2B4.B109.4B51.
4B\$108.4B98.2D23.B.B109.4B51.4B\$109.4B122.B.B110.4B51.4B\$110.4B111.2D
9.B10.2B100.4B51.4B\$111.4B110.2D20.B.B100.4B51.4B\$112.4B133.B101.4B
51.4B\$113.4B99.2D31.2B101.4B51.4B\$8.2B8.B95.4B90.2D6.2D16.2B117.4B51.
4B\$8.2B6.3B96.4B89.2D25.B118.4B51.4B\$15.B100.4B112.3B120.4B51.4B\$2B
13.2B100.4B111.B123.4B51.4B\$.B116.4B99.D135.4B51.4B\$.B.B115.4B97.D.D
135.4B51.4B\$2.2B116.4B89.2D6.2D136.4B51.4B\$7.2B112.4B89.D145.4B51.3B\$
7.2B113.4B85.3D147.4B51.2B\$123.4B84.D150.4B51.B\$124.4B235.4B\$125.4B
235.4B\$4.B121.4B235.4B\$3.B.B121.4B235.4B\$3.2B123.4B235.4B\$129.4B235.
4B\$130.4B235.4B\$12.2B117.4B235.4B\$12.2B118.4B235.4B\$133.4B235.4B\$134.
4B235.4B\$135.4B235.4B\$136.4B235.4B\$137.4B235.4B\$138.4B235.4B\$139.4B
235.4B\$140.4B235.4B\$141.4B235.4B\$142.4B235.4B\$143.4B235.4B\$144.4B235.
4B\$145.4B235.4B\$146.4B28.B206.4B\$147.4B26.2B207.4B\$148.4B24.3B208.4B\$
149.4B22.4B209.4B\$150.4B20.4B211.4B\$151.4B18.4B213.4B\$152.4B16.4B215.
4B\$153.4B14.4B217.4B\$154.4B12.4B219.4B\$155.4B10.4B221.4B\$156.4B8.4B
223.4B\$157.4B6.4B225.4B\$158.4B4.4B227.4B\$159.4B2.4B229.4B\$153.2A5.8B
231.4B\$154.A5.7B233.4B\$154.A.AB.7B235.4B\$155.2AB.9B234.4B\$157.11B.2B
232.4B\$157.13B2A232.4B\$157.13B2A233.4B\$157.10B2.2B235.4B\$154.7B2A3B
241.4B\$153.2A6B2A3B242.4B\$153.2A11B243.4B\$156.10B244.4B\$159.7B245.4B\$
160.5B.A245.4B\$158.4B3.A.A245.4B\$158.2A6.2A246.4B\$159.A255.4B\$156.3A
257.4B\$156.A260.4B\$418.4B\$419.4B\$420.4B\$421.4B\$422.4B\$423.4B\$424.4B\$
425.4B\$426.4B\$427.4B\$428.4B\$429.4B\$430.4B\$431.4B\$432.4B\$433.4B\$434.4B
\$435.3B\$436.2B\$437.B2.A\$439.2A\$439.A.A15\$98.2B\$99.B\$99.B.B\$100.2B2\$
115.2B\$115.2B2\$106.2B\$98.2B6.2B\$98.2B3\$111.B\$110.B.B\$103.2B6.2B\$104.B
\$101.3B\$101.B!
``````
The blue cells have just been destroyed, but the white cells (which would have been constructed at the same time as said blue cells) remain and will be suitable as a semi-snark seed in two iterations time.

Next, the green UC is in operation. It constructs all of the red cells in the north east. Note that there are 8 more still lifes than before --- 7 in the far north east and a single block just south-west of the G-to-H converter.

Next the red semi-snarks are constructed from their seed (not shown) and all of the green cells except for the 8 still lifes I have added are destroyed. Everything should be ready for the next cycle.

Here is how the semi-snark seed is triggered using two gliders:

Code: Select all

``````x = 102, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
100bo\$99bo\$99b3o8\$90bo\$89bo\$89b3o26\$bo\$2bo\$3o11\$38b2o\$39bo\$39bobo\$40b
2o2\$33b2o20b2o\$33b2o20b2o3\$47b2o\$29b2o16b2o\$28bo2bo\$29b2o\$51bo\$19bo30b
obo\$20bo22b2o6b2o\$18b3o23bo\$41b3o\$41bo10\$31b2o\$30bobo\$31bo!
``````
EDIT: Here is a more concrete plan. In the current iteration everything in red has to be built and everything in green has to be destroyed. It must be possible to build the single block for the NW semi-snark using one glider but I couldnt find a way.

Code: Select all

``````x = 396, y = 301, rule = LifeHistory
249.4B6.4B\$248.4B6.4B\$247.4B6.4B\$246.4B6.4B\$245.4B6.4B\$244.4B6.4B\$
243.4B6.4B\$242.4B6.4B\$241.4B6.4B\$240.4B6.4B\$239.4B6.4B\$238.4B6.4B\$
237.4B6.4B\$236.4B6.4B\$235.4B6.4B\$217.2D8.D6.4B6.4B\$217.2D6.3D5.4B6.4B
\$224.D7.4B6.4B\$209.2D13.2D5.4B6.4B\$210.D19.4B6.4B\$210.D.D16.4B6.5B\$
211.2D15.4B6.6B\$227.4B5.9B11.D\$218.2D6.4B6.9B9.3D\$218.2D5.4B6.10B8.D\$
224.4B6.12B7.2D8.2D\$223.4B6.18B.3B8.D\$213.D8.4B6.21B7.BD.D\$212.D.D6.
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121.4B70.4B161.4B\$122.4B64.2C4.4B161.4B\$123.4B62.C.C5.4B161.4B\$124.4B
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19.4B161.4B\$128.4B39.8B2.B2A18.4B161.4B\$129.4B38.7B3.BA.A183.4B\$130.
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133.4B20.3B9.8B195.4B\$134.4B19.4B7.8B197.4B\$135.4B19.4B5.9B198.4B\$
136.4B19.4B3.4B.6B198.4B\$137.4B19.4B.4B.7B199.4B\$138.4B19.7B2.6B201.
4B\$139.4B19.5B3.6B202.4B\$140.4B18.5B4.B2A2B203.4B\$141.4B16.7B2.2B2A3B
203.4B\$142.4B14.4B.4B.7B204.4B\$143.4B12.4B3.4B.5B206.4B\$144.4B10.4B5.
9B207.4B\$145.4B8.4B7.8B208.4B\$146.4B6.4B9.7B209.4B\$147.4B4.4B11.6B7.
2A201.4B\$148.4B2.4B4.2A5.7B7.A203.4B\$142.2A5.8B6.A6.7B3.BA.A204.4B\$
143.A5.7B7.A.AB.11B.B2A206.4B\$143.A.AB.7B9.2AB.2BA10B209.4B\$144.2AB.
9B9.3BABA10B209.4B\$146.11B.2B6.3BABA9B211.4B\$146.13B2A7.2BA8B.B2A210.
3B\$146.13B2A9.8B2.BA.A210.2B\$146.10B2.2B10.3B2.4B4.A211.B\$143.7B2A3B
13.5B3.4B3.2A\$142.2A6B2A3B13.2AB6.4B\$142.2A11B14.A8.4B\$145.10B11.3A
10.4B\$148.7B11.A13.4B\$149.5B.A25.4B\$147.4B3.A.A25.4B\$147.2A6.2A26.4B\$
148.A35.4B\$145.3A37.3B\$145.A40.2B\$187.B!
``````

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:I took your pattern on the left and shifted all of the Herschel related stuff north east by 25 cells and then added 8 still lifes per iteration. These are seeds for the upcoming semi-snarks but because they are transparent to all of the reactions in every iteration they can be constructed 3 iterations in advance using normal single elbow operations.
Ah, and moving the Herschel circuitry farther away from the semi-Snarks has mostly only good effects -- this configuration can support any relative spacing of the two construction-arm gliders from, let's see, 115*4 = minus 460 to plus infinity -- much better than minus 40 to plus infinity.

The only downside is that the first two of the gliders in each group of four on the tape will have to be spaced farther apart -- not much of a price to pay. The two noncoding gliders can still follow along at 497 ticks apart, or 512 if that makes Golly happier.
chris_c wrote:Next the red semi-snarks are constructed from their seed (not shown) and all of the green cells except for the 8 still lifes I have added are destroyed. Everything should be ready for the next cycle.
So you have a single freeze-dried slow salvo in the northwest that will be triggered to shoot down all the leftover junk in the southwest, as well as creating the four red gliders? Seems like a good solution.

There's also the option of adding seeds-of-destruction objects around the leftover pieces, both semi-Snarks and Herschel circuitry, so that the whole mess can be cleaned up at the end with one trigger glider. Just have to be very careful to not put anything where it will get in the way of some previous construction mechanism that we've conveniently forgotten all about...!
chris_c wrote:EDIT: Here is a more concrete plan. In the current iteration everything in red has to be built and everything in green has to be destroyed. It must be possible to build the single block for the NW semi-snark using one glider but I couldnt find a way.
Yes, there must be a clean two-still-life block mover out there somewhere -- I'll check in the block move table. Or I suppose it doesn't really have to be clean as long as the junk doesn't get in the way of later gliders headed for the other semi-Snark -- it can all be cleaned up later.

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:So you have a single freeze-dried slow salvo in the northwest that will be triggered to shoot down all the leftover junk in the southwest, as well as creating the four red gliders? Seems like a good solution.
Maybe something like this?

Code: Select all

``````x = 383, y = 377, rule = LifeHistory
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101.C7.4B80.4B5.4B19.18B9.4B13.A4.7B3.C2.C6.4B20.3D10.4B\$86.2C13.2C5.
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103.5B80.4B15.4B20.11B15.4B15.9B4.4B7.C35.4B\$95.2C6.4B80.4B17.4B20.9B
17.4B13.6B.4B2.4B5.3C37.4B\$95.2C5.4B80.4B19.4B19.7B20.4B12.7B.8B6.C
40.4B\$101.4B80.4B21.4B19.4B23.4B12.6B2.6B49.4B\$100.5B79.4B23.4B19.4B
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19.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B\$87.4B23.4B53.4B49.4B19.4B17.11B19.4B51.4B\$86.4B
25.4B51.4B51.4B19.4B16.8B2.B2C18.4B51.4B\$85.4B27.4B49.4B53.4B19.4B15.
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6.5D20.4B45.4B57.4B19.4B13.6B7.2C19.4B51.4B\$82.4B5.2D5.2D19.4B43.4B
59.4B19.4B11.7B29.4B51.4B\$81.4B5.D29.4B41.4B61.4B19.4B9.8B30.4B51.4B\$
80.4B5.D31.4B39.4B63.4B19.4B7.8B32.4B51.4B\$79.4B5.D33.4B37.4B65.4B19.
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7.D35.4B20.8D5.4B69.4B19.4B.4B.7B34.4B51.4B\$76.4B8.D36.4B24.3D4.4B71.
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51.4B\$74.4B21.C.C25.4B19.3D2.D2.4B75.4B18.5B4.B2C2B38.4B51.4B\$73.4B
22.C.C26.4B18.D4.D.4B77.4B16.7B2.2B2C3B38.4B51.4B\$72.4B18.2C4.C28.4B
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3.4B.5B41.4B51.4B\$70.4B57.4B12.D6.4B83.4B10.4B5.9B42.4B51.4B\$69.4B59.
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8.4B91.4B2.4B4.2C5.7B7.C38.4B51.4B\$65.4B67.3BD9.4B86.2C5.8B6.C6.7B3.B
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71.D3B5.4B89.C.C5.4B9.2CB.2BC10B44.4B51.4B\$62.4B72.D4B3.4B91.2C4.4B
12.3BCBC10B44.4B51.4B\$61.4B72.D2.4B.4B97.4B13.3BCBC9B46.4B51.4B\$60.4B
72.D4.7B86.2C9.4B7.2C7.2BC8B.B2C45.4B51.3B\$59.4B58.9D12.5B87.2C8.4B8.
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``````
Have a line of freeze dried salvos B, B', B'' etc.
Fire an LWSS from A to trigger the salvo at B.
The salvo at B fires one glider at seed C to make a clean block for the NW semi-snark.
One glider at D which is reflected into the belly of the Herschel stuff and gives a SOD assisted clean up of the upper green cells.
Two gliders at E to activate the SE semi-snark.
Some positive number of gliders further down to clean up the remaining semi-snarks and G-to-H.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan or am I missing something simpler?

dvgrn
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### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:Have a line of freeze dried salvos B, B', B'' etc.
Fire an LWSS from A to trigger the salvo at B.
The salvo at B fires one glider at seed C to make a clean block for the NW semi-snark.
One glider at D which is reflected into the belly of the Herschel stuff and gives a SOD assisted clean up of the upper green cells.
Two gliders at E to activate the SE semi-snark.
Some positive number of gliders further down to clean up the remaining semi-snarks and G-to-H.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan or am I missing something simpler?
I don't see any simplifications offhand. There's one slight complexification, though: freeze-dried salvos burn from their near ends, so an LWSS from A to the far end of B would just have to be converted to a glider and sent down to the near end to start the fireworks.

Some kind of *WSS might be needed. If we try to use a glider from A to the near end of B, whatever it hits at B will have a twin at B' that the glider would have hit first. I think B'' is safely out of the way... Below is a diagram using some kind of *WSS turner in the middle of the freeze-dried slow salvo. I think that should work okay:

Code: Select all

``````x = 385, y = 432, rule = LifeHistory
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40.2B\$176.B!``````
A better alternative is probably a dirty "0-degree turner" at the near end of B', that drops something in the way of the next glider to complete a 90-degree turner for the next trigger glider on the same path.

I've added labels at F and G, where the two semi-Snarks need to be cleaned up. Seems as if this might be the trickiest part: we might want to add a few additional still lifes there to complete a self-destruct circuit -- but at G, extra junk will make the semi-Snark harder to construct if we're not careful, and at F, extra junk might get in the way of the mechanism that builds the last two still lifes.

Just something to be very careful about in the design stage, I guess. I need to find and fix that copy/paste bug in the Seeds of Destruction Game -- the latest alpha lets you paste in new puzzles with history/envelope cells to show where it's forbidden to put things, but then you can't copy your solutions out! You can count cells and copy things out by hand, of course, but that's just silly.

-- Also added a B-sub-T label for the target for the new freeze-dried slow salvo at B'''. It doesn't really have to be moved all the way out there -- just has to be far enough to the northeast of the previous completed freeze-dried salvo that each new U.C. can pick it up and move it out to where it's needed for the next construction cycle.

dvgrn
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### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:Maybe one of the original Demonoid blueprints will be cheaper after all -- they don't have the overlapping semi-Snark problem, so the total cost might be somewhere around 200sL instead of 420sL.

Sadly, there would be no excuse to get some experience with freeze-dried salvos... but to make up for that, we could use elbow-op recipes that included singleton gliders. Especially at 10hd, those seem to be significantly more efficient -- and the old Demonoids could handle input data four times faster, on top of that.
Okay, it's probably a good time to have a serious look at the competition -- in particular, Demonoid designs that don't need semi-Snarks to be built on the construction lanes, and/or that allow the use of elbow op recipes with singleton gliders.

Looking over the old Demonoid blueprints, I can see that I missed a few good tricks (!). In particular, there's really no need to include an ON/OFF switch in the Herschel circuitry, in the form of a Fx116 conduit with a movable block. If we need to block off one construction-arm lane or the other, if necessary we can build an eater seed to drop an eater into the lane, as in the linear GoL replicator/propagator.

That means that there are Demonoid candidates with either 10hd or 9hd construction arms, that have few or no still lifes in the danger zone, and are only about 52-54 still lifes in all (without self-destruct circuitry). That seems pretty competitive with the best we seem to be able to do with the semi-Snark model:

Code: Select all

``````x = 853, y = 366, rule = LifeHistory
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B\$567.B\$567.2B\$552.2B\$553.B\$550.3B\$550.B!``````
Technically I think all the cleanup could now be done with a double elbow, especially if the first elbow was one of chris_c's 180-degree ones. So we'd never have to build more than these 50-some objects, plus a few more for the eater seed for the SW construction-arm lane.

A big advantage to these new/old designs is that they can do constructions at four times the speed, once they get going -- the data is compressed tighter on the tape by about a factor of two. (Not quite, because these are both 575-tick recovery where the semi-Snark model can manage 497 ticks.)

The real clincher may be that these designs have no problem encoding singleton gliders. 10hd with pair-or-singleton recipes is going to be a pretty huge efficiency improvement, I think.

dvgrn
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### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:That means that there are Demonoid candidates with either 10hd or 9hd construction arms, that have few or no still lifes in the danger zone, and are only about 52-54 still lifes in all (without self-destruct circuitry).
In case I've lost anybody with these weird new serial Demonoid models -- or in case I'm wrong and they don't actually work for some subtle reason -- here's a quick runthrough of how they're supposed to function.

These serial universal constructors are run by two long streams of gliders in series. Let's call the first stream "A", and the one that follows directly behind it is "B". The action goes like this:
Blueprint for 52sL 9hd and 54sL 10hd serial Demonoids
9hd+10hd_Demonoids.png (12.72 KiB) Viewed 41470 times
• The "A" gliders start to enter Circuit B (at the B label).
• The A gliders are reflected, and output gliders on the construction arm are absorbed by Eater A (white).
• The A gliders are reflected again, by a mirrored copy of the U.C., far far away in the southeast.
• The A gliders return and start to re-enter the original U.C., this time at the A circuit.
• The lead A glider becomes a Herschel. An output glider hits a one-time turner (white), deleting Eater A.
• The A signals are sent southeast again, to run through the second half of the U.E. in the southeast and complete the cycle.
• We have construction! Any combination of slow pairs and singleton gliders is allowable -- the only timing restriction is that A gliders must be at least 575 ticks apart, and the same for B gliders.
• Option 1: A second one-time turner sends the lead Herschel signal southwest to trigger a self-destruct circuit (not shown) which destroys the entire previous U.C.
• Option 2: A chris_c 180-degree offset elbow, plus a secondary slow elbow, progressively shoots down all the still lifes in the previous now-inactive U.C. (blue).
• Combinations of A and B gliders manipulate the elbow to build the next copy of the Demonoid U.C (red), plus a new Eater B seed (not shown) and finally a new Eater A'.
• The last A and B gliders move through the A and B circuits, producing a Last Glider from the construction arm.
• The B gliders are about to start coming in to the A circuit, and we don't want them producing unmatched gliders on the old A construction-arm lane. So the Last Glider hits the Eater B seed (not shown), permanently blocking the B lane.
That's all it takes -- right? -- to complete the loop and produce the first adjustable-speed diagonal spaceship. (The original Gemini can't be adjusted to go diagonally, at least not without some serious reprogramming. It can't move orthogonally, either, by the way, which suggests another engineering challenge.)

EDIT: Stop the presses, there's a 10hd Demonoid U.C. with a nice round 50 still lifes. It just needs a couple of final blocks dropped close to or on the edge of the southeast construction lane. I suppose a couple of the eaters in Circuit B might end up being a little tricky to construct, but it still looks doable:

EDIT: fixed the (3,3) spacing problem pointed out by chris_c...EDIT^2: fixed the broken glider inserter, too, and added two more 10hd options:

Code: Select all

``````x = 441, y = 1382, rule = LifeHistory
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4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A26.2D19.D\$225.4B6.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A26.D17.D
.D\$224.4B6.21B13.8B2.36B2.5B26.D.D15.2D\$223.4B6.24B10.52B29.2D4.D\$
222.4B6.25B11.50B2A33.D.D\$221.4B6.4B3.19B12.7B.22B2A17B2A33.D.D\$220.
4B6.4B5.17B.B10.31B2A16B.B35.D10.2D\$219.4B6.4B6.19B10.19B2.2B3.23B48.
D.D\$218.4B6.4B7.20B8.17B11.10B2.9B51.D\$217.4B6.4B9.22B2.2B.15B16.6B3.
8B52.2D\$216.4B6.4B10.18B.22B19.3B4.7B38.2D\$215.4B6.4B13.14B.B.13B.8B
21.B3.11B36.D\$214.4B6.4B15.13B3.9B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B32.3D\$213.4B6.4B
16.13B.11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A2.12B32.D\$212.4B6.4B17.28B10.A18.3A4.11B\$
211.4B6.4B18.13B4.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.8B\$210.4B7.3B19.8B2.3B5.4B19.A
20.2A4.7B\$209.4B8.2B19.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.7B\$208.4B9.B21.6B7.2A5.4B36.3A
6.6B\$207.4B33.6B6.A7.4B35.A8.7B\$206.4B33.7B7.3A5.4B43.8B\$205.4B33.9B
8.A6.4B43.8B\$204.4B33.9B17.4B42.9B\$203.4B33.10B18.4B40.6B.4B\$202.4B
33.13B17.4B39.7B.4B\$201.4B34.9B2A2B.B16.4B22.2A15.6B2.4B\$200.4B35.9B
2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.4B\$199.4B36.14B2A17.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B\$
198.4B37.15B19.4B21.2AB.13B2A2B5.4B\$197.4B38.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B22.18B
7.3B\$196.4B40.2A5.3B4.2A19.4B21.17B9.2B\$195.4B42.A4.B2AB4.A21.4B21.
13B13.B\$194.4B40.3A6.2A6.3A19.4B22.12B\$193.4B41.A18.A20.4B23.10B\$192.
4B83.4B22.11B\$191.4B85.4B22.2B.7B\$190.4B87.4B21.11B\$189.4B89.4B19.11B
\$188.4B91.4B18.11B\$187.4B93.4B17.11B\$186.4B95.4B16.8B2.B2A\$185.4B97.
4B15.7B3.BA.A\$184.7B96.4B14.7B6.A\$183.10B13.A81.4B13.6B7.2A\$182.12B
12.3A80.4B11.7B\$181.12B16.A21.BA2B55.4B9.8B\$180.13B15.2A20.3AB10.A46.
4B7.8B\$179.15B14.4B17.A3B11.3A45.4B5.9B\$178.17B15.3B15.B2AB15.A14.A
30.4B3.4B.6B\$177.18B14.4B14.4B15.2A12.3A31.4B.4B.7B\$176.20B13.5B12.4B
4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A35.7B2.6B\$175.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A35.5B3.6B\$174.
21B13.8B2.36B2.5B35.5B4.B2A2B\$173.24B10.52B37.6B2.2B2A3B\$172.25B11.
50B2A34.2A2B.4B.7B\$171.4B3.19B12.7B.22B2A17B2A33.A.AB3.4B.5B\$170.4B5.
17B12.31B2A16B.B34.A7.9B\$169.4B6.18B11.19B2.2B3.23B35.2A8.8B\$168.4B7.
18B10.17B11.10B2.9B47.7B\$167.4B9.22B2.2B.15B16.6B3.8B49.6B7.2A\$166.4B
10.18B.22B19.3B4.7B42.2A5.7B7.A\$165.4B13.14B.B.13B.8B21.B3.11B40.A6.
7B3.BA.A\$164.4B15.13B3.9B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B39.A.AB.11B.B2A\$163.4B16.
13B.11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A2.12B40.2AB.2BA10B\$162.4B17.28B10.A18.3A4.11B
42.3BABA10B\$161.4B18.13B4.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.8B42.3BABA9B\$160.4B19.
8B2.3B5.4B19.A20.2A4.7B44.2BA8B.B2A\$159.4B19.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.7B46.9B.
BA.A\$158.4B21.6B7.2A5.4B36.3A6.6B46.3B2.4B4.A\$157.4B23.6B6.A7.4B35.A
8.7B43.5B3.4B3.2A\$156.4B23.7B7.3A5.4B43.8B42.2AB6.4B\$155.4B23.9B8.A6.
4B43.8B42.A8.4B\$154.4B23.9B17.4B42.9B38.3A10.4B\$153.4B23.10B18.4B40.
6B.4B37.A13.4B\$152.4B23.13B17.4B39.7B.4B51.4B\$151.4B24.9B2A2B.B16.4B
22.2A15.6B2.4B51.4B\$150.4B25.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.4B51.4B\$149.4B
26.14B2A17.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B51.4B\$148.4B27.15B19.4B21.2A15B2A2B
5.4B51.4B\$148.3B28.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B21.19B7.4B51.4B\$180.2A5.3B4.2A19.
4B20.18B9.4B51.4B\$181.A4.B2AB4.A21.4B21.13B13.4B51.4B\$178.3A6.2A6.3A
19.4B22.12B13.4B51.4B\$178.A18.A20.4B23.10B14.4B51.4B\$219.4B22.11B14.
4B51.4B\$220.4B22.2B.7B15.4B51.4B\$221.4B21.11B15.4B51.4B10.2D\$222.4B
19.11B17.4B51.4B8.D2.D\$223.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B7.D2.D\$224.4B17.11B19.4B
60.D4.D\$225.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B59.D4.D\$226.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B57.D6.D\$
227.4B14.7B6.A19.4B56.D6.D\$228.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B54.D8.D\$229.4B11.7B29.
4B53.D8.D\$230.4B9.8B30.4B52.D8.D\$231.4B7.8B32.4B51.10D\$232.4B5.9B33.
4B50.D8.D\$233.4B3.4B.6B33.4B49.D8.D\$234.4B.4B.7B34.4B48.D8.D\$235.7B2.
6B36.4B47.D8.D\$236.5B3.6B37.4B46.D8.D\$236.5B4.B2A2B38.4B45.D8.D\$156.B
79.6B2.2B2A3B38.4B44.D8.D\$156.3B75.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B43.D8.D\$159.B22.B
50.A.AB3.4B.5B41.4B42.D8.D\$158.2B20.3B11.B38.A7.9B42.4B\$179.B14.3B35.
2A8.8B43.4B\$179.2B16.B14.B30.7B44.4B\$196.2B12.3B31.6B7.2A36.4B\$209.B
26.2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$209.2B26.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$237.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B\$
238.2AB.2BA10B44.4B\$208.2B30.3BABA10B44.4B\$189.2B17.2B30.3BABA9B46.4B
\$189.2B51.2BA8B.B2A45.4B\$244.9B.BA.A45.4B\$244.3B2.4B4.A46.4B\$242.5B3.
4B3.2A46.4B\$242.2AB6.4B51.4B\$243.A8.4B51.4B\$158.2B32.2B46.3A10.4B51.
4B\$158.2B11.2B20.B46.A13.4B51.4B\$171.B18.3B62.4B51.4B\$172.3B15.B65.4B
51.4B\$174.B20.2B60.4B51.4B\$196.B61.4B51.4B\$146.2B45.3B63.4B\$146.B46.B
66.4B\$147.3B111.4B\$149.B112.4B\$263.4B\$264.4B\$265.4B\$138.2B46.2B78.4B\$
138.2B3.2B42.B79.4B\$143.2B42.B.B15.2B61.4B\$188.2B15.2B62.4B\$270.4B\$
130.2B12.2B125.4B\$131.B5.2B5.B127.4B\$128.3B6.2B6.3B125.4B\$128.B18.B
126.4B\$275.4B\$276.4B\$277.4B\$278.4B\$279.4B\$280.4B\$206.2B73.4B\$206.B.B
73.4B\$208.B74.4B\$96.B111.2B74.4B\$96.3B186.4B11.7D\$99.B22.B163.4B11.D
5.D\$98.2B20.3B11.B166.D6.D\$119.B14.3B164.D7.D\$119.2B16.B14.B148.D7.D\$
136.2B12.3B140.B7.D7.D\$149.B143.2B6.D7.D\$149.2B150.D7.D\$196.2B103.D7.
D\$196.2B103.D6.D\$148.2B151.7D\$129.2B17.2B151.D6.D\$129.2B170.D7.D\$301.
D7.D\$301.D7.D\$207.2B92.D7.D\$186.2B19.B93.D7.D\$187.B17.B.B93.D6.D\$98.
2B32.2B53.B.B15.2B94.D5.D\$98.2B11.2B20.B54.2B4.B105.7D\$111.B18.3B60.B
.B\$112.3B15.B62.B.B\$114.B20.2B57.B10.2B\$136.B68.B.B\$86.2B45.3B71.B\$
86.B46.B73.2B\$87.3B102.2B\$89.B103.B\$190.3B\$190.B2\$78.2B46.2B36.2B\$78.
2B3.2B42.B37.B\$83.2B42.B.B15.2B15.3B\$128.2B15.2B15.B2\$70.2B12.2B\$71.B
5.2B5.B\$68.3B6.2B6.3B\$68.B18.B7\$146.2B\$146.B.B\$148.B\$148.2B9\$136.2B\$
136.2B\$124.2B\$123.B.B\$123.B\$122.2B2\$147.2B\$126.2B19.B\$127.B17.B.B\$
127.B.B15.2B\$128.2B4.B\$133.B.B\$133.B.B\$134.B10.2B\$145.B.B\$147.B\$147.
2B\$132.2B\$133.B\$130.3B\$130.B!``````

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:Stop the presses, there's a 10hd Demonoid U.C. with a nice round 50 still lifes. It just needs a couple of final blocks dropped close to or on the edge of the southeast construction lane. I suppose a couple of the eaters in Circuit B might end up being a little tricky to construct, but it still looks doable.
Interesting ideas! I note that the B circuit in red in this last design needs to be shifted by (3,3) to the north-west however. I'm not sure if that is a curse or a blessing... another 3fd closer to the construction lane they might be buildable with 180-degree gliders.

I'm going to try to see if there are any cheap ways of turning an elbow block into an eater (or anything capable of eating) directly on the construction lane. It would be convenient if this were so.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:Interesting ideas! I note that the B circuit in red in this last design needs to be shifted by (3,3) to the north-west however. I'm not sure if that is a curse or a blessing... another 3fd closer to the construction lane they might be buildable with 180-degree gliders.
Oops, yes. The blue B circuit also. I've edited the last message to repair the pattern.

Yes, I was thinking of those eaters as a minor curse. The two eaters can certainly be built somehow, but they're close enough to the construction lanes that some elbow-op reactions would hit them in passing. It's not a lot of fun having to restrict an op set to get a construction done -- much nicer to just let the glider-pair compiler have a free choice of the available recipes. For the GoL propagator project I spent more time fixing that kind of problem than on anything else.
chris_c wrote:I'm going to try to see if there are any cheap ways of turning an elbow block into an eater (or anything capable of eating) directly on the construction lane. It would be convenient if this were so.
I was hoping you'd have a look at that -- thanks!

Another item along the same lines: these latest Demonoid blueprints have an elbow block, but no "hand" block on either side of the construction lanes to provide a target to start construction with. This is a deliberate omission, because I've always been able to find reactions that throw usable target junk far off to the side, while retaining a clean elbow block. I haven't attempted to find the shortest possible hand-builder recipe for either 9hd or 10hd, but it looks as if your script may be able to come up with a good solution, with the hand junk diagonally as far away from the elbow as possible.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:Yes, I was thinking of those eaters as a minor curse. The two eaters can certainly be built somehow, but they're close enough to the construction lanes that some elbow-op reactions would hit them in passing.
On a second glance, it doesn't look as if those four nearest still lifes -- two blocks and two eaters -- will cause any really serious problems. There's a pretty decent amount of space around them for building seeds, and they can be the very last objects constructed, so there's no need to move an elbow past them.

However, they're certainly not all the way solved yet! Seems as if the eaters might indeed be buildable with the 180-degree elbow trick:

Code: Select all

``````x = 181, y = 156, rule = LifeHistory
68.ABA\$67.B2AB\$66.3BA\$65.4B\$64.4B\$63.4B\$62.4B\$61.4B\$60.4B6.BA95.A\$59.
4B6.2AB94.A2B\$58.4B6.2B2A90.BA.B3A\$57.4B6.4B90.2A5B\$56.4B6.4B90.2B2A
3B\$55.4B6.4B90.7B\$54.4B6.4B90.7B\$53.4B6.4B90.7BA\$52.4B4.BA4B90.6B2AB\$
51.4B4.2A4B90.8B2A\$50.4B4.2B2A2B90.10B\$49.4B4.6B90.10B\$48.4B4.6B90.
10B\$47.4B4.6B90.10B\$46.4B4.6B90.10B\$45.4B4.6B90.10B\$44.4B4.6B90.10B\$
43.4B4.6B88.A.10B\$42.4B4.6B88.A11B\$41.4B.BA.6B88.B3A8B\$40.4B.2A7B88.
12B\$39.4B.2B2A5B88.9BA2B\$38.4B.9B88.9BA2B\$37.4B.9BA87.10B3A\$36.4B.9BA
2B85.13B\$35.4B.10B3A84.13B\$34.4B.13B84.13B\$33.4B.13B84.13B\$32.4B.13B
74.B9.13B\$31.4B.13B74.3B7.13B\$30.4B.9BA3B75.4B5.13B\$29.4B.10BABA76.6B
2.13B\$28.4B.11B2A76.7B.8BA4B\$27.4B.13B77.16BABAB\$26.4B.13B76.18B2AB\$
25.4B.13B77.20B\$24.4B.13B77.3B.16B\$23.4B.13B77.4B.15B\$22.4B.13B79.3B.
14B\$21.4B.4BA8B81.17B\$3.4B13.4B.4BA8B81.20B\$2.4B4.D8.4B.5B3A5B81.22B\$
.4B5.3D5.4B.13B77.4B2.21B\$4B9.D3.4B.13B77.4B3.BDB.16B\$3B9.2D2.4B.13B
77.4B5.3D6BA9B\$2B13.4B.13B77.4B8.BD4BA2B.7B\$B13.4B.13B78.3B9.2D4B3AB.
7B\$13.4B.6BA6B79.2B11.7B.B.6B\$8.B3.4B.6BA6B80.B13.7B.6B\$7.2D6B.7B3A3B
98.2B2A7B\$7.D6B.13B99.2B2A4B\$5.DBD19B90.2D9.6B\$5.2D19B91.D10.5B\$5.20B
90.D.D11.B.B\$6.18B91.2D\$7.16B\$7.17B\$6.18B\$4.20B\$3.11BA9B\$4.8BDC10B\$6.
6BDC2A6B\$8.14B100.2D\$8.13B101.2D\$4.2C3.5B2A2B\$4.2C3.2B.2B2A3B\$12.7B\$
13.4B\$14.B7\$172.ABA\$171.B2AB\$170.3BA\$169.4B6.A\$168.4B6.A2B\$167.4B6.B
3A\$166.4B6.4B\$165.4B6.4B\$164.4B6.4B\$163.4B6.4B\$162.4B6.4B\$161.4B6.4B\$
160.4B6.4B\$159.4B6.4B\$158.4B6.4B\$157.4B3.A2.4B\$53.BA101.4B3.A6B\$52.2A
B100.4B3.B3A3B\$51.2B2A99.4B.BA7B\$50.4B99.4B.2A7B\$49.4B99.3BA.2B2A5B\$
48.4B99.2B2A10B\$47.4B99.4B2A8B\$46.4B99.14B\$42.BA.4B99.14B\$41.2A5B99.
14B\$40.2B2A3B99.14B\$39.7B99.14B\$38.7B99.14B\$37.7BA98.14B\$36.6B2AB97.
14B\$35.4BA3B2A96.14B\$34.3B2A5B96.14B\$33.5B2A3B96.14B\$32.10B96.14B\$31.
10B96.A13B\$30.10B96.A13B\$29.10B96.B3A10B\$28.10B96.14B\$27.10B96.14B\$
26.10B16.BA78.14B\$25.10B16.2AB77.14B\$24.10B16.2B2A76.14B.A\$23.10B5.AB
9.4B76.14B.A2B\$22.10B5.BABA7.4B76.14B.B3A\$21.10B5.2B2A7.4B76.8BA5B.4B
\$20.10B5.4B7.4B62.4B4.5B.9BABA2B.4B\$5.4B10.10B5.4B7.4B62.4B4.D15B2A2B
.4B\$4.4B4.D5.10B5.4B7.4B62.4B4.B3D16B.4B\$3.4B5.3D2.10B5.4B7.4B62.4B3.
6BD14B.4B\$2.4B9.D10B5.A3B7.4B63.3B4.5B2D13B.4B\$2.3B9.2D9B5.BABA7.4B
64.2B6.18B.4B\$2.2B10.10B5.2B2A7.4B65.B6.18B.4B\$2.B10.10B5.4B7.4B72.
23B\$12.10B5.4B7.4B73.20B\$10.13B3.4B7.4B75.2DB2A2BA11B\$9.2D12B2.4B7.4B
76.D2B2A2BABA10B\$9.D18B7.4B75.D.D6B2A9B\$7.DBD17B7.4B76.2D3.12B\$7.2D6B
2.10B6.4B83.11B\$7.8B2A2BA7B5.4B85.11B\$8.7B2A2BABA5B4.4B87.10B\$8.11B2A
5B4.4B88.9B\$10.14B5.4B90.B2.3B\$11.12B5.4B94.2B\$12.10B5.4B\$11.13B2.4B
91.2D\$11.3B2D13B92.2D\$11.3B2D12B\$11.2B2.12B\$15.8B.2B\$6.2C6.2B4.2B\$6.
2C6.2B!``````
In the top recipe on the left, the glider farthest from the construction lane seems to be 31hd away. In the bottom recipe, there's one glider at 40hd, which might have to be custom-generated with a one-time turner but that seems pretty easy. Besides the 40hd one, the maximum distance for that recipe is 29hd.

The right-side recipes attempt to construct the other eater, closer to the construction lanes. These are more troublesome, because one of them can't be done with the previous eater present. The other one has intermediate targets that interfere with the near construction lane. The only way I can see to make that one work is to maintain an extra elbow far ahead of the Demonoid, so that several 180-degree elbow operations can be sent past the construction point, and then all of them come back and finish the construction before any further glider pairs go past on the construction lanes.

(You'd also need a final 180-degree recipe that retains the faraway elbow and fires a glider back down the construction lanes, which would combine with one or more glider pairs/singletons on the standard lanes to rebuild an elbow local to the construction site, so it isn't necessary to pull a block all the way back from the faraway elbow location. Seems as if that should be fairly easy to fiind...?]

... I guess I'd say that if there are any more problems with the serial Demonoid design, especially if they are any bigger than this problem, then it may be worth working on the original encoded-pair design instead. At the moment the serial model still looks pretty competitive.

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote: I was hoping you'd have a look at that -- thanks!
Here are a couple of bizarre looking examples I found so far. I haven't worked out if they are practical yet, but the fact that they exist at all is quite promising.

Code: Select all

``````x = 578, y = 369, rule = B3/S23
372b2o\$372b2o202b2o\$576b2o13\$352b3o\$354bo201b3o\$353bo204bo\$557bo11\$
553bo\$553b2o\$552bobo64\$272b3o\$274bo201b3o\$273bo204bo\$477bo2\$482b2o\$
276b2o203bobo\$275bobo205bo\$277bo72\$407b2o\$396b3o9b2o\$398bo8bo\$397bo12\$
187b3o\$189bo\$188bo59\$331bo\$331b2o\$330bobo2\$112b3o\$114bo6b2o193b3o\$113b
o6bobo195bo\$122bo194bo18\$296b3o\$298bo\$297bo8\$81b2o\$80bobo\$82bo8\$276b3o
\$278bo\$277bo8\$61b2o\$60bobo\$62bo8\$256b3o\$258bo\$257bo8\$41b2o\$40bobo\$42bo
8\$236b3o\$238bo\$237bo8\$21b2o\$20bobo\$22bo18\$b2o\$obo\$2bo!
``````
dvgrn wrote:...it looks as if your script may be able to come up with a good solution, with the hand junk diagonally as far away from the elbow as possible.
Yes I already searched for something like this but didn't write it down. Shouldn't be hard to find again.
dvgrn wrote:In the top recipe on the left, the glider farthest from the construction lane seems to be 31hd away
I think the outer glider is on lane 36 unfortunately. My numbering system had the upward glider lanes at +/-5 and the outer glider is 31hd below that. Now that singleton gliders are allowed it might be possible to find some clean-ups for other lanes, but I am still running a search for the eaters at the moment.
dvgrn wrote:You'd also need a final 180-degree recipe that retains the faraway elbow and fires a glider back down the construction lanes, which would combine with one or more glider pairs/singletons on the standard lanes to rebuild an elbow local to the construction site, so it isn't necessary to pull a block all the way back from the faraway elbow location. Seems as if that should be fairly easy to fiind...?
Yeah, should be possible. In fact the lane 9 shooter should already be suitable for this task. It takes three gliders to shoot and zero to clean up and 9 is small enough so that it will interact with the gliders in the opposite direction.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
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Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:Here are a couple of bizarre looking examples I found so far. I haven't worked out if they are practical yet, but the fact that they exist at all is quite promising.
The one on the left is certainly usable in a pinch -- you can knock out the eater with a single 90-degree glider (when you need to re-open the lane) and clean up the leftover beehive with a first glider on the outer construction lane:

Code: Select all

``````x = 1080, y = 549, rule = LifeHistory
550.2D2A\$550.D.DA\$552.D\$552.2D12\$532.3A\$534.A\$533.A78\$452.3A\$454.A\$
453.A4\$456.2A\$455.A.A\$457.A87\$367.3A\$369.A\$368.A63\$292.3A\$294.A6.2A\$
293.A6.A.A\$302.A28\$261.2A\$260.A.A\$262.A18\$241.2A\$240.A.A\$242.A18\$221.
2A\$220.A.A\$222.A18\$201.2A\$200.A.A\$202.A18\$181.2A\$180.A.A\$182.A43\$146.
2A\$145.A.A\$147.A18\$126.2A\$125.A.A\$127.A18\$106.2A\$105.A.A\$107.A18\$86.
2A\$85.A.A\$87.A18\$66.2A\$65.A.A\$67.A18\$46.2A\$45.A.A\$47.A20\$1077.3A\$
1077.A\$1078.A11\$.2A\$A.A\$2.A!``````
It might be slightly nicer to have a "real" eater instead of a boat-bit-catching eater, so as not to have to worry about catching an even number of gliders before the eater is destroyed. But we'd have a fifty percent chance of lucking out and not having to change anything.
chris_c wrote:
dvgrn wrote:In the top recipe on the left, the glider farthest from the construction lane seems to be 31hd away
I think the outer glider is on lane 36 unfortunately. My numbering system had the upward glider lanes at +/-5 and the outer glider is 31hd below that.
I knew I should have gone back and double-checked your lane numbering math. 36 makes sense -- I was counting the inside construction lane as zero, so just add +5 to all my numbers.

We still have a couple of perfectly good known ways to build those danger-zone eaters -- or almost-known ways, anyway.
• For the lane-36 and lane-45 parts of the recipes I posted, it should be fairly inexpensive to build a row of boats or other one-time turners, and simply use the construction arm to trigger the next turner when we need one of those gliders.
• If that doesn't work, we could build a small freeze-dried slow-salvo seed instead, on the other side of the construction arm, and trigger it when it's time to produce any final slow-salvo gliders that can't be fired directly from the elbow.
Neither one of these is ideal, but we're only talking about two or three or four still lifes in the danger zone. So the freeze-dried salvo seed might end up being ten or twenty still lifes in all, to make four to eight gliders -- a significant fraction of the total recipe but probably not the majority of it.

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

Erm... first of all there seems to be quite a problem. Just as I was testing out the final pattern I found that Herschel circuit B does not work. It seems like the final H-to-G part of the circuit needs to be shifted by (-4,-1)

Does a H-to-G exist of the opposite color? I have no idea.

Anyway, this is what I had written before that discovery:
dvgrn wrote: It might be slightly nicer to have a "real" eater instead of a boat-bit-catching eater
Out of the roughly 600 junk patterns that contained eaters or snakes (more correctly, the important parts of eaters and snakes, e.g. there were plenty of aircraft carriers in the junk too) I managed to spot just one appropriately placed eater:

Code: Select all

``````x = 508, y = 513, rule = LifeHistory
506.2C\$506.2C12\$488.2A\$487.A.A\$489.A10\$486.A\$486.2A\$485.A.A81\$403.2A\$
404.2A\$403.A63\$328.2A\$329.2A\$328.A7.2A\$337.2A\$336.A76\$248.2A\$249.2A\$
248.A7\$249.3A\$251.A\$250.A66\$181.A\$181.2A\$180.A.A\$168.2A\$167.A.A\$169.A
68\$98.2A\$97.A.A\$99.A48\$48.2A\$47.A.A\$49.A55\$.A\$.2A\$A.A!
``````
That's very nice of course, but I still think that boat-bit catcher will come in handy. As I understand it, we need to place to eaters in both of the outbound glider lanes. After the first eater is made, we still need to have an elbow to allow construction of the second eater. That can be accompished with the first boat-bit based pattern as follows:

Code: Select all

``````x = 380, y = 379, rule = LifeHistory
378.2C\$378.2C14\$358.3A\$360.A\$359.A78\$278.3A\$280.A\$279.A4\$282.2A\$281.A
.A\$283.A87\$193.3A\$195.A\$194.A63\$118.3A\$120.A6.2A\$119.A6.A.A\$128.A35\$
80.3A\$82.A\$81.A\$87.3A\$89.A\$88.A18\$67.3A\$69.A\$68.A18\$47.3A\$49.A\$48.A
18\$27.3A\$29.A\$28.A15\$3A\$2.A\$.A\$7.3A\$9.A\$8.A!
``````
Which can be cleaned up like this:

Code: Select all

``````x = 113, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
4\$58bo\$57bobo\$57bobo\$58bo3\$59b2o\$59bobo\$61bo\$61b2o5\$63b2o\$62bo2bo\$63b
2o3\$43b3o\$45bo\$44bo18\$23b3o\$25bo\$24bo10\$105b3o\$105bo\$106bo6\$3b3o\$5bo\$
4bo!
``````
The full pattern now looks like:

Code: Select all

``````x = 408, y = 377, rule = LifeHistory
341.4B\$340.4B\$339.4B\$338.4B\$337.4B2.2E\$336.4B3.2E.4B\$335.4B6.4B\$334.
4B6.4B\$333.4B6.4B\$332.4B6.4B\$331.4B6.4B\$330.4B6.4B\$329.4B6.4B\$328.4B
6.4B\$327.4B6.4B\$326.4B6.4B\$325.4B6.4B\$324.4B6.4B\$323.4B6.4B\$322.4B6.
4B\$321.4B6.4B\$320.4B6.4B\$319.4B6.4B\$318.4B6.4B\$317.4B6.4B\$316.4B6.4B
19.2D\$315.4B6.4B20.D\$314.4B6.4B19.D.D\$313.4B6.4B20.2D\$312.4B6.4B\$311.
4B6.4B42.D\$310.4B6.4B33.2D6.3D\$309.4B6.4B3.2D29.2D5.D\$308.4B6.4B4.2D
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10.3A4.11B\$169.4B35.4B24.20B6.4B9.A4.4B.8B\$168.4B37.4B24.19B7.4B13.2A
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``````
If necessary we can fire an extra B glider at the very end to change the parity of the boat-bit, and since the B gliders meet their fate in an eater this won't cause any problems.
dvgrn wrote: We still have a couple of perfectly good known ways to build those danger-zone eaters -- or almost-known ways, anyway.
Well, that one still isn't completely solved: now that singletons are allowed, a re-run of the 180 degree searcher found no new lanes and only made some existing lanes slightly cheaper.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:Erm... first of all there seems to be quite a problem. Just as I was testing out the final pattern I found that Herschel circuit B does not work. It seems like the final H-to-G part of the circuit needs to be shifted by (-4,-1)
Hm, late night bit-rot -- I can never quite reconstruct how this kind of thing happens. I've fixed the original pattern again (I hope), and added two more options -- another 50sL variant, and a 52sL with better clearance, but without a really easy way to delete a blocking eater.

I think the variant in the middle can be safely discarded. The geometry means it's more difficult to bounce a glider up to delete an eater, and it has a slower recovery time than the top one -- 575 ticks vs. 497. But the model at the bottom is worth a look. All of its still lifes are a fairly nice distance from the construction lanes -- just a couple of eaters are anywhere near, and they have quite a bit of space around them. With any luck this will keep construction clearance problems at a minimum. Here's a fresh copy:

Code: Select all

``````#C 52sL (plus a few) 10hd Demonoid serial universal constructor
#C -- needs a few x = 433, y = 351, rule = LifeHistory
x = 433, y = 351, rule = LifeHistory
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198.4B37.15B19.4B21.2AB.13B2A2B5.4B\$197.4B38.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B22.18B
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30.4B3.4B.6B\$177.18B14.4B14.4B15.2A12.3A31.4B.4B.7B\$176.20B13.5B12.4B
4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A35.7B2.6B\$175.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A35.5B3.6B\$174.
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18B10.17B11.10B2.9B47.7B\$167.4B9.22B2.2B.15B16.6B3.8B49.6B7.2A\$166.4B
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7B3.BA.A\$164.4B15.13B3.9B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B39.A.AB.11B.B2A\$163.4B16.
13B.11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A2.12B40.2AB.2BA10B\$162.4B17.28B10.A18.3A4.11B
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22.2A15.6B2.4B51.4B\$150.4B25.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.4B51.4B\$149.4B
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5.4B51.4B\$148.3B28.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B21.19B7.4B51.4B\$180.2A5.3B4.2A19.
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19.4B22.12B13.4B51.4B\$178.A18.A20.4B23.10B14.4B51.4B\$219.4B22.11B14.
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227.4B14.7B6.A19.4B56.D6.D\$228.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B54.D8.D\$229.4B11.7B29.
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6B36.4B47.D8.D\$236.5B3.6B37.4B46.D8.D\$236.5B4.B2A2B38.4B45.D8.D\$156.B
79.6B2.2B2A3B38.4B44.D8.D\$156.3B75.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B43.D8.D\$159.B22.B
50.A.AB3.4B.5B41.4B42.D8.D\$158.2B20.3B11.B38.A7.9B42.4B\$179.B14.3B35.
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26.2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$209.2B26.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$237.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B\$
238.2AB.2BA10B44.4B\$208.2B30.3BABA10B44.4B\$189.2B17.2B30.3BABA9B46.4B
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4B3.2A46.4B\$242.2AB6.4B51.4B\$243.A8.4B51.4B\$158.2B32.2B46.3A10.4B51.
4B\$158.2B11.2B20.B46.A13.4B51.4B\$171.B18.3B62.4B51.4B\$172.3B15.B65.4B
51.4B\$174.B20.2B60.4B51.4B\$196.B61.4B51.4B\$146.2B45.3B63.4B\$146.B46.B
66.4B\$147.3B111.4B\$149.B112.4B\$263.4B\$264.4B\$265.4B\$138.2B46.2B78.4B\$
138.2B3.2B42.B79.4B\$143.2B42.B.B15.2B61.4B\$188.2B15.2B62.4B\$270.4B\$
130.2B12.2B125.4B\$131.B5.2B5.B127.4B\$128.3B6.2B6.3B125.4B\$128.B18.B
126.4B\$275.4B\$276.4B\$277.4B\$278.4B\$279.4B\$280.4B\$206.2B73.4B\$206.B.B
73.4B\$208.B74.4B\$96.B111.2B74.4B\$96.3B186.4B11.7D\$99.B22.B163.4B11.D
5.D\$98.2B20.3B11.B166.D6.D\$119.B14.3B164.D7.D\$119.2B16.B14.B148.D7.D\$
136.2B12.3B140.B7.D7.D\$149.B143.2B6.D7.D\$149.2B150.D7.D\$196.2B103.D7.
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2B32.2B53.B.B15.2B94.D5.D\$98.2B11.2B20.B54.2B4.B105.7D\$111.B18.3B60.B
.B\$112.3B15.B62.B.B\$114.B20.2B57.B10.2B\$136.B68.B.B\$86.2B45.3B71.B\$
86.B46.B73.2B\$87.3B102.2B\$89.B103.B\$190.3B\$190.B2\$78.2B46.2B36.2B\$78.
2B3.2B42.B37.B\$83.2B42.B.B15.2B15.3B\$128.2B15.2B15.B2\$70.2B12.2B\$71.B
5.2B5.B\$68.3B6.2B6.3B\$68.B18.B7\$146.2B\$146.B.B\$148.B\$148.2B9\$136.2B\$
136.2B\$124.2B\$123.B.B\$123.B\$122.2B2\$147.2B\$126.2B19.B\$127.B17.B.B\$
127.B.B15.2B\$128.2B4.B\$133.B.B\$133.B.B\$134.B10.2B\$145.B.B\$147.B\$147.
2B\$132.2B\$133.B\$130.3B\$130.B!``````
Any new problems, besides the lack of a blocking eater?

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote:I've fixed the original pattern
Oh good. I was a little bit worried there for a while. The closest eater in that fixed pattern looks to be buildable by reipce "e1Jm8,-3:E9 E13 E13 E35 O17 E25 O3 E15 O-1 E19 E5 E13,[0,-10]". The only problem is that the active construction zone clashes with the block behind it. I'm hoping that the block can be built after the eater with a recipe that ends with some kind of south-western flourish.

Here is the pattern with the semi-problematic eater construction shown:

Code: Select all

``````x = 441, y = 391, rule = LifeHistory
374.4B\$373.4B\$372.4B\$371.4B\$370.4B2.2E\$369.4B3.2E.4B\$368.4B6.4B\$367.
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6.4B\$360.4B6.4B\$359.4B6.4B\$358.4B6.4B\$357.4B6.4B\$356.4B6.4B\$355.4B6.
4B\$354.4B6.4B\$353.4B6.4B\$352.4B6.4B\$351.4B6.4B\$350.4B6.4B\$349.4B6.4B
19.2D\$348.4B6.4B20.D\$347.4B6.4B19.D.D\$346.4B6.4B20.2D\$345.4B6.4B\$344.
4B6.4B42.D\$343.4B6.4B33.2D6.3D\$342.4B6.4B3.2D29.2D5.D\$341.4B6.4B4.2D
36.2D\$340.4B6.4B\$339.4B6.4B\$338.4B6.4B44.2D\$337.4B6.4B40.2D3.2D\$336.
4B6.4B41.2D\$335.4B6.4B\$334.4B6.4B\$333.B2DB6.4B\$332.2BDB6.4B56.D7.D\$
331.BDBD6.4B55.3D5.3D11.D\$330.2B2D6.4B55.D7.D14.3D\$329.4B6.4B56.2D6.
2D16.D14.D\$328.4B6.4B82.2D12.3D\$327.4B6.4B28.2D66.D\$326.4B6.4B29.2D
66.2D\$325.4B6.4B\$324.4B6.4B\$323.4B6.4B99.2D\$322.4B6.4B81.2D17.2D\$321.
4B6.4B82.2D\$320.4B6.4B\$319.4B6.4B\$318.4B6.4B\$317.4B6.4B\$316.4B6.4B\$
315.4B6.4B91.2D\$314.4B6.4B.4B.14B73.D\$313.4B6.4B.4B.15B70.3D\$312.4B6.
4B.4B.16B70.D\$311.4B6.4B.4B.17B75.2D\$310.4B6.4B.4B.17B77.D\$309.4B6.4B
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.D112.4B6.4B.4B.17B\$306.4B6.4B.4B2.16B\$18.D.D.D.D33.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D
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6.4B135.2D\$274.4B6.4B136.2D\$16.D.D.D.D.D21.D.D.D.D.D27.D.D.D.D.D11.D.
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46.4B22.13B15.4B16.8B\$196.5B47.4B24.11B15.4B15.9B\$193.9B47.4B24.9B17.
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5.4B\$191.13B8.2A40.4B23.4B23.15B2A2B5.4B\$192.11B9.A42.4B23.4B21.19B7.
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193.17B48.4B23.4B22.12B13.4B\$193.17B20.A28.4B23.4B23.10B14.4B\$190.B.
19B9.2A6.3A29.4B23.4B22.11B14.4B\$189.2A19B9.B2AB4.A33.4B23.4B22.2B.7B
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34.4B23.4B19.11B17.4B\$195.32B37.4B23.4B18.11B18.4B\$195.9B.21B2A37.4B
23.4B17.11B19.4B\$196.7B2.16B2A3B2A38.4B23.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B\$196.7B2.
16B2A2B.B40.4B23.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B\$196.6B4.19B43.4B23.4B14.7B6.A19.
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19.4B23.4B7.8B32.4B\$197.5B15.6B6.A7.A3B11.3A18.4B23.4B5.9B33.4B\$197.
6B13.6B7.2A5.B2AB15.A14.A3.4B23.4B3.4B.6B33.4B\$199.4B12.8B4.4B4.4B15.
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4B23.7B2.6B36.4B\$199.2A15.13B4.4B.13B5.5B6.2A8.4B23.5B3.6B37.4B\$216.
46B2.5B9.4B22.5B4.B2A2B38.4B\$216.51B12.4B20.7B2.2B2A3B38.4B\$216.50B2A
12.4B18.4B.4B.7B39.4B\$215.32B2A17B2A13.4B16.4B3.4B.5B41.4B\$213.34B2A
16B.B15.4B14.4B5.9B42.4B\$213.22B2.2B3.23B18.4B12.4B7.8B43.4B\$212.20B
11.10B2.9B20.4B10.4B9.7B44.4B\$212.21B13.6B3.8B22.4B8.4B11.6B7.2A36.4B
\$212.17B.4B14.3B4.7B24.4B6.4B4.2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$211.19B.4B15.B3.11B22.
4B4.4B6.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$209.21B2.4B14.2A2.12B22.4B2.4B7.A.AB.11B.B2A
41.4B\$209.21B3.4B14.A2.12B23.8B9.2AB.2BA10B44.4B\$208.20B6.4B10.3A4.
11B24.6B12.3BABA10B44.4B\$209.20B6.4B9.A4.4B.8B25.4B13.3BABA9B46.4B\$
210.19B7.4B13.2A4.7B24.6B14.2BA8B.B2A45.4B\$210.18B9.4B13.A4.7B23.8B
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12.4B8.A8.7B19.2B2C7B13.5B3.4B3.2A46.4B\$212.14B14.4B16.8B18.2BCBC6B
13.2AB6.4B51.4B\$213.13B15.4B16.8B16.4BC6B15.A8.4B51.4B\$216.11B15.4B
15.9B14.7B17.3A10.4B51.4B\$217.9B17.4B13.6B.4B13.3B21.A13.4B51.4B\$217.
7B20.4B12.7B.4B10.4B37.4B51.4B\$218.4B23.4B12.6B2.4B9.2A40.4B51.4B\$
219.4B23.4B4.B4.8B3.4B9.A41.4B51.4B\$220.4B23.2B3.4B.6B2AB5.4B5.3A43.
4B51.4B\$221.4B21.17B2A2B5.4B4.A46.B3A\$222.4B21.19B7.4B51.A3B\$223.4B
20.18B9.4B51.A3B10.2D\$224.4B21.13B13.4B51.4B8.D2.D\$225.4B22.12B13.4B
51.4B7.D2.D\$226.4B23.10B14.4B60.D4.D\$227.4B22.11B14.4B59.D4.D\$228.4B
22.2B.7B15.4B57.D6.D\$229.4B21.11B15.4B56.D6.D\$230.4B19.11B17.4B54.D8.
D\$162.2B67.4B18.11B18.4B53.D8.D\$162.B69.4B17.11B19.4B52.D8.D\$160.B.B
70.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B51.10D\$160.2B72.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B50.D8.D\$235.4B
14.7B6.A19.4B49.D8.D\$180.B55.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B48.D8.D\$170.2B6.3B56.4B
11.7B29.4B47.D8.D\$139.2B29.2B5.B60.4B9.8B30.4B46.D8.D\$139.2B36.2B60.
4B7.8B32.4B45.D8.D\$240.4B5.9B33.4B44.D8.D\$241.4B3.4B.6B33.4B43.D8.D\$
176.2B64.4B.4B.7B34.4B42.D8.D\$171.2B3.2B65.7B2.6B36.4B\$171.2B71.5B3.
6B37.4B\$244.5B4.B2A2B38.4B\$244.6B2.2B2A3B38.4B\$242.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B\$
182.B7.B50.A.AB3.4B.5B41.4B\$180.3B5.3B11.B38.A7.9B42.4B\$179.B7.B14.3B
35.2A8.8B43.4B\$179.2B6.2B16.B14.B30.7B44.4B\$204.2B12.3B31.6B7.2A36.4B
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11B.B2A41.4B\$246.2AB.2BA10B44.4B\$216.2B30.3BABA10B44.4B\$197.2B17.2B
30.3BABA9B46.4B\$197.2B51.2BA8B.B2A45.4B\$252.9B.BA.A45.4B\$252.3B2.4B4.
A46.4B\$250.5B3.4B3.2A46.4B\$250.2AB6.4B51.4B\$251.A8.4B51.4B\$200.2B46.
3A10.4B\$201.B46.A13.4B\$198.3B62.4B\$198.B65.4B\$203.2B60.4B\$204.B61.4B\$
201.3B63.4B\$201.B66.4B\$269.4B\$270.4B\$271.4B\$272.4B\$273.B3A\$274.A3B\$
275.A3B\$213.2B61.4B\$102.2B109.2B62.4B\$102.B175.4B\$100.B.B176.4B\$100.
2B178.4B\$281.4B\$120.B161.4B\$110.2B6.3B162.4B\$79.2B29.2B5.B166.4B\$79.
2B36.2B166.4B\$286.4B\$287.4B11.7D\$116.2B170.4B11.D5.D\$111.2B3.2B96.2B
73.4B10.D6.D\$111.2B101.B.B73.4B9.D7.D\$216.B74.4B8.D7.D\$216.2B74.4B7.D
7.D\$293.4B6.D7.D\$122.B7.B172.D7.D\$120.3B5.3B11.B160.D7.D\$119.B7.B14.
3B158.D6.D\$119.2B6.2B16.B14.B142.7D\$144.2B12.3B142.D6.D\$89.2B66.B145.
D7.D\$89.2B66.2B144.D7.D\$204.2B97.D7.D\$204.2B97.D7.D\$156.2B145.D7.D\$
137.2B17.2B145.D6.D\$137.2B164.D5.D\$302.7D2\$215.2B\$194.2B19.B\$195.B17.
B.B\$140.2B53.B.B15.2B\$141.B54.2B4.B\$138.3B60.B.B\$138.B62.B.B\$143.2B
57.B10.2B\$144.B68.B.B\$141.3B71.B\$141.B73.2B\$200.2B\$201.B\$198.3B\$198.B
2\$172.2B\$173.B\$153.2B15.3B\$153.2B15.B12\$154.2B\$154.B.B\$156.B\$156.2B9\$
144.2B\$144.2B\$132.2B\$131.B.B\$131.B\$130.2B2\$155.2B\$134.2B19.B\$135.B17.
B.B\$135.B.B15.2B\$136.2B4.B\$141.B.B\$141.B.B\$142.B10.2B\$153.B.B\$155.B\$
155.2B\$140.2B\$141.B\$138.3B\$138.B!
``````
For the 52sl pattern with the nice clearance it is possible for a LWSS to fly between the A and B circuits. But maybe that's overkill?!

Code: Select all

``````x = 433, y = 351, rule = LifeHistory
376.D\$376.3D\$379.D22.D\$378.2D20.3D11.D\$399.D14.3D\$399.2D16.D14.D\$416.
2D12.3D\$429.D\$429.2D3\$428.2D\$409.2D17.2D\$409.2D6\$378.2D32.2D\$378.2D
11.2D20.D\$391.D18.3D\$392.3D15.D\$394.D20.2D\$416.D\$366.2D45.3D\$366.D46.
D\$367.3D\$369.D4\$358.2D46.2D\$358.2D3.2D42.D\$363.2D42.D.D15.2D\$408.2D
15.2D\$64.D.D.D.D.D29.D.D.D.D.D75.D.D.D.D.D\$350.2D12.2D\$18.D.D.D.D33.D
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3D\$16.D.D.D.D.D31.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D21.D.D.D.D.D75.D.D.D.D.D
153.D18.D2\$16.D.D.D.D.D29.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D19.D.D.D.D.D
75.D.D.D.D.D2\$14.D.D.D.D.D.D27.D.D.D.D.D.D11.D.D.D.D.D.D17.D.D.D.D.D
75.D.D.D.D.D2\$12.D.D.D.D.D.D.D25.D.D.D.D.D.D15.D.D.D.D.D.D15.D.D.D.D.
D75.D.D.D.D.D\$426.2D\$8.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D25.D.D.D.D.D19.D.D.D.D.D15.D.
D.D.D.D75.D.D.D.D.D231.D.D\$428.D\$6.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D23.D.D.D.D.D.D
19.D.D.D.D.D.D13.D.D.D.D.D75.D.D.D.D.D121.D111.2D\$316.3D\$2.D.D.D.D.D.
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D.D.D23.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D174.2D\$416.2D\$D.D13.D.D.D.
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11.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D154.2D17.2D\$349.2D\$16.D.D.D.D.D21.D.D.D.D.D27.D.D
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102.2D\$16.D.D.D.D.D21.D.D.D.D.D27.D.D.D.D.D11.D.D.D.D.D23.D.D.D.D11.D
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``````

dvgrn
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### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:The closest eater in that fixed pattern looks to be buildable by reipce "e1Jm8,-3:E9 E13 E13 E35 O17 E25 O3 E15 O-1 E19 E5 E13,[0,-10]". The only problem is that the active construction zone clashes with the block behind it. I'm hoping that the block can be built after the eater with a recipe that ends with some kind of south-western flourish.
Let's see -- it definitely looks unlikely to create that block by leaving a partial block-move construction to the southwest -- i.e., we can't finish with a northeastern flourish, there isn't enough room. Maybe some other object could be pushed southwest and then converted into the Questionable Block.

Most of the standard conversions don't move the block sideways far enough, or else the conversion takes up too much space -- there's barely room for a honeyfarm between the two eaters. So I can't think of a workable mechanism offhand, and it's a little tricky to search for in my current collection. It might be worth looking through common object conversions to see if there's a usable exception to the rule. It might be a nice tool to have.

Alternatively, the other eater can probably be built after the Semi-Problematic Eater, with a standard 90-degree salvo from the elbow. That means the Questionable Block can be pushed sideways into position before the Other Eater is constructed, also with a standard 90-degree salvo, and that doesn't look like it will be much of a problem at all:

Code: Select all

``````x = 252, y = 313, rule = LifeHistory
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14.4B51.4B\$38.4B22.11B14.4B51.4B\$39.4B22.2B.7B15.4B51.4B\$40.4B21.11B
15.4B51.4B10.2D\$41.4B19.11B17.4B51.4B8.D2.D\$42.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B7.D
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48.4B11.7B29.4B53.D8.D\$49.4B9.8B30.4B52.D8.D\$50.4B7.8B32.4B51.10D\$51.
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54.7B2.6B36.4B47.D8.D\$55.5B3.6B37.4B46.D8.D\$55.5B4.B2A2B38.4B45.D8.D\$
55.6B2.2B2A3B38.4B44.D8.D\$53.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B43.D8.D\$52.A.AB3.4B.5B41.
4B42.D8.D\$52.A7.9B42.4B\$51.2A8.8B43.4B\$62.7B44.4B\$63.6B7.2A36.4B\$55.
2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$56.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$56.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B\$57.2AB.2BA10B
44.4B\$59.3BABA10B\$59.3BABA9B\$61.2BA8B.B2A\$63.9B.BA.A\$63.3B2.4B4.A\$61.
5B3.4B3.2A\$61.2AB6.4B\$62.A8.4B\$59.3A10.4B\$59.A13.4B\$74.4B\$75.4B\$76.4B
\$77.4B\$78.4B\$79.4B\$80.4B\$81.4B\$82.4B\$83.4B\$84.4B\$85.4B\$86.4B6.7D\$87.
4B6.D5.D\$88.4B5.D6.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$
97.D6.D\$97.7D\$97.D6.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D7.D\$97.D6.D
\$97.D5.D\$96.7D!``````
I guess the next thing is to make sure that there's a universal toolkit of low-spark recipes that can shoot those gliders (and ones before that for the Questionable Block) past the Semi-Problematic Eater. I know there are plenty of elbow moves, so it's just a matter of digging up a low-spark glider output of each color. With singleton gliders and a wide range of relative timings allowed, I think this won't be a problem, but I might as well dig up and review the full 10hd pair/singleton toolkit.
chris_c wrote:For the 52sl pattern with the nice clearance it is possible for a LWSS to fly between the A and B circuits. But maybe that's overkill?!
Well, I do like a little overkill every now and then, but only in moderation. I haven't checked all the known two and three glider seeds for *WSSes (and I don't think there's a good stamp collection of these anywhere). The one I tried didn't fit as an attachment to the Circuit A Fx119 inserter, so it would need an extra glider turner. Meanwhile some other options showed up:

Code: Select all

``````x = 170, y = 177, rule = LifeHistory
75.2E\$69.4B2.2E2.4B\$68.4B6.4B\$67.4B6.4B\$66.4B6.4B\$65.4B6.4B\$64.4B6.4B
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7B\$56.B2CB6.10B13.A\$55.2BCB6.12B12.3A\$54.BCBC6.12B16.A21.BA2B\$53.2B2C
3B3.13B15.2A20.3AB10.A\$52.4B.4B.15B14.4B17.A3B11.3A\$51.4B3.20B15.3B
15.B2AB15.A14.A\$50.4B5.19B14.4B14.4B15.2A12.3A\$49.4B6.20B13.5B12.4B4.
B.7B3.3B.2B7.A\$48.4B6.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A\$47.4B6.21B13.8B2.36B
2.5B\$46.4B6.24B10.52B\$45.4B6.25B11.50B2A\$44.4B6.4B3.19B12.7B.22B2A17B
2A\$43.4B6.4B5.17B.B10.31B2A16B.B\$42.4B6.4B6.19B10.19B2.2B3.23B\$41.4B
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8B32.4B51.10D\$55.4B5.9B33.4B50.D8.D\$56.4B3.4B.6B33.4B49.D8.D\$57.4B.4B
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56.A.AB3.4B.5B41.4B42.D8.D\$56.A7.9B42.4B\$55.2A8.8B43.4B\$66.7B44.4B\$
67.6B7.2A36.4B\$59.2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$60.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$60.A.AB.11B.B2A
41.4B\$61.2AB.2BA10B44.4B\$63.3BABA10B\$63.3BABA9B\$65.2BA8B.B2A\$67.9B.BA
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4B\$78.4B\$79.4B\$80.4B\$81.4B\$82.4B\$83.4B\$84.4B\$85.4B\$86.4B\$87.4B\$88.4B\$
89.4B\$90.4B6.7D\$91.4B6.D5.D\$92.4B5.D6.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$
101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D6.D\$101.7D\$101.D6.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D
\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D7.D\$101.D6.D\$101.D5.D\$100.7D!``````

chris_c
Posts: 940
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

dvgrn wrote: Alternatively, the other eater can probably be built after the Semi-Problematic Eater ... and that doesn't look like it will be much of a problem at all.
Excellent. The construction for that design seems to be nearly solved in principle.
dvgrn wrote: Well, I do like a little overkill every now and then, but only in moderation.... Meanwhile some other options showed up
Those look good but after quite a few minutes of playing around I couldn't find a satisfying way to destroy my proposed eater for the B gliders when the NW glider is of the opposite color to before.

(EDIT: I should have written "A gliders" rather than "B gliders". The "A gliders" get eaten on the "B lane".)

Here is my previous cleanup again:

Code: Select all

``````x = 113, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
4\$58bo\$57bobo\$57bobo\$58bo3\$59b2o\$59bobo\$61bo\$61b2o5\$63b2o\$62bo2bo\$63b
2o3\$43b3o\$45bo\$44bo18\$23b3o\$25bo\$24bo10\$105b3o\$105bo\$106bo6\$3b3o\$5bo\$
4bo!
``````
There must be a simple solution but I slightly prefer the other design at the moment. It wins on SL count too.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6315
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) working notes

chris_c wrote:
dvgrn wrote:Well, I do like a little overkill every now and then, but only in moderation.... Meanwhile some other options showed up
Those look good but after quite a few minutes of playing around I couldn't find a satisfying way to destroy my proposed eater for the B gliders when the NW glider is of the opposite color to before.
...
There must be a simple solution but I slightly prefer the other design at the moment. It wins on SL count too.
Oh, glider color isn't a problem. We can use a glider turner of either color -- there are bajillions of them, and probably quite a few with just two still lifes -- and still make it through that gap in the old inactive B conduit.

This actually isn't needed for the stopper pattern you posted -- the two turners I sent before seem to work fine. But just for the record, here's a three-block turner for each color. Don't take the yellow block in the top reaction seriously, it's just there to prevent an unnecessary explosion:

Code: Select all

``````x = 242, y = 377, rule = LifeHistory
147.2E\$141.4B2.2E2.4B\$140.4B6.4B\$139.4B6.4B\$138.4B6.4B\$137.4B6.4B\$
136.4B6.4B\$135.4B6.4B\$134.4B6.4B\$133.4B6.4B\$132.4B6.4B\$131.4B6.4B\$
130.4B6.4B\$129.4B6.7B\$128.4B6.10B13.A\$127.4B6.12B12.3A\$126.4B5.13B16.
A21.BA2B\$125.4B5.14B15.2A20.3AB10.A\$124.4B5.16B14.4B17.A3B11.3A\$123.
4B5.18B15.3B15.B2AB15.A14.A\$122.4B6.18B14.4B14.4B15.2A12.3A\$121.4B6.
20B13.5B12.4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A\$120.4B6.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A\$119.
4B6.21B13.8B2.36B2.5B\$118.4B6.24B10.52B\$117.4B6.25B11.50B2A\$116.4B6.
4B3.19B12.7B.22B2A17B2A\$115.4B6.4B5.17B.B10.31B2A16B.B\$114.4B6.4B6.
19B10.19B2.2B3.23B\$113.4B6.4B7.20B8.17B11.10B2.9B\$112.4B6.4B9.22B2.2B
.15B16.6B3.8B\$111.4B6.4B10.41B19.3B4.7B\$110.4B6.4B13.30B.8B21.B3.11B\$
101.B7.4B6.4B15.25B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B\$100.6B2.4B6.4B16.25B2A2B5.B3.2A
20.A2.12B\$100.3BC2B.4B6.4B17.28B10.A18.3A4.11B\$100.2BCBCB.3B6.4B18.
13B4.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.8B\$100.2BCBC4B6.4B19.8B2.4B4.4B19.A20.2A4.
7B\$101.2BC5B5.4B19.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.7B\$101.9B3.4B21.6B6.4B4.4B36.3A6.
6B\$102.9B.4B23.6B6.4B4.4B35.A8.7B\$101.3B2C9B23.7B7.4B4.4B43.8B\$100.4B
CBC7B23.9B7.3B5.4B43.8B\$99.7BC6B23.9B9.2B6.4B42.9B\$98.8B2C4B23.10B10.
B7.4B40.6B.4B\$97.6B3.6B22.13B17.4B39.7B.4B\$96.4B5.9B20.9B2A2B.B16.4B
22.2A15.6B2.4B\$95.4B6.10B19.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.4B\$94.4B6.12B
18.14B2A17.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B\$93.4B6.5B2C7B17.15B19.4B21.2AB.13B
2A2B5.4B\$92.4B6.5BC2BC2B.4B16.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B22.18B7.3B\$91.4B6.7B2C
2B3.4B16.2A5.3B4.2A19.4B21.17B9.2B\$90.3AB6.11B5.4B16.A4.B2AB4.A14.2A
5.4B21.13B13.B\$89.3BA6.11B2.2E3.4B12.3A6.2A6.3A11.A7.4B22.12B\$88.3BA
6.12B2.2E4.4B11.A18.A12.3A5.4B23.10B\$87.4B6.4B3.6B9.4B44.A6.4B22.11B\$
86.4B6.4B5.3B12.4B51.4B22.2B.7B\$85.4B6.4B6.3B13.4B36.D14.4B21.11B\$84.
4B6.4B8.B15.4B9.A24.D16.4B19.11B\$83.4B6.4B26.4B6.3A24.D3.D13.4B18.11B
\$82.4B6.4B28.4B4.A27.4D15.4B17.11B\$81.4B6.4B30.4B2.B2A46.4B16.8B2.B2A
\$80.4B6.4B32.4B.B49.4B15.7B3.BA.A\$79.7B3.4B34.5B50.4B14.7B6.A\$78.10B.
3B9.A26.4B51.4B13.6B7.2A\$77.12B12.3A23.6B51.4B11.7B\$75.13B16.A21.3B.
4B51.4B9.8B\$74.14B15.2A20.4B2.4B4.A46.4B7.8B\$73.16B14.4B17.4B4.4B3.3A
45.4B5.9B\$72.18B15.3B15.4B6.4B5.A14.A30.4B3.4B.6B\$72.18B14.4B14.4B8.
4B3.2A12.3A31.4B.4B.7B\$71.20B13.5B12.4B4.B.8B2.3B.2B7.A35.7B2.6B\$70.
21B12.6B11.4B.15B3.5B6.2A35.5B3.6B\$69.21B13.8B2.36B2.5B35.5B4.B2A2B\$
68.24B10.52B36.7B2.2B2A3B\$67.25B11.50B2A34.4B.4B.7B\$66.3AB3.19B12.7B.
22B2A17B2A33.4B3.4B.5B\$66.2BA5.17B12.31B2A16B.B33.C3B5.9B\$66.BA6.18B
11.19B2.2B3.23B34.C3B7.8B\$66.B7.18B10.17B11.10B2.9B34.B3C9.7B\$75.22B
2.2B.15B16.6B3.8B34.4B11.6B7.2A\$75.18B.22B19.3B4.7B34.4B4.2A5.7B7.A\$
77.14B.B.13B.8B21.B3.11B30.4B6.A6.7B3.BA.A\$78.13B3.9B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.
12B28.4B7.A.AB.11B.B2A\$78.13B.11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A2.12B27.4B9.2AB.2BA6B
2A2B\$78.28B10.A18.3A4.11B26.4B12.3BABA4BA2BA2B\$78.13B4.4B.3B.B12.3A
15.A4.4B.8B25.4B13.3BABA5B2A2B\$78.8B2.3B5.4B19.A20.2A4.9B22.4B16.2BA
8B.B2A\$77.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.10B20.4B19.9B.BA.A\$78.6B7.2A5.4B36.3A6.10B
18.4B20.3B2.4B4.A\$79.6B6.A7.4B35.A8.11B7.2CB6.4B19.5B3.4B3.2A\$78.7B7.
3A5.4B43.12B6.2CB.2B2.4B20.2AB6.4B\$77.9B8.A6.4B43.12B5.12B21.A8.4B\$
76.9B17.4B42.13B2.16B16.3A10.4B\$75.10B18.4B40.6B.8B.14B2C2B14.A13.4B\$
74.13B17.4B39.7B.10B2C10B2C2B29.4B\$74.9B2A2B.B16.4B22.2A15.6B2.9B2C
13B31.4B\$74.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.21B34.4B\$74.14B2A17.4B21.A.AB3.
4B.6B2AB5.20B35.4B\$74.15B19.4B21.2A15B2A2B5.6B2.5B42.4B\$74.4B.2B2.B2.
5B18.4B21.19B7.5B2.5B43.4B\$75.2A5.3B4.2A19.4B20.18B9.4B2.4B45.4B\$76.A
4.B2AB4.A21.4B21.13B13.4B2.3B46.4B\$73.3A6.2A6.3A19.4B22.12B12.5B2.B
48.4B\$73.A18.A20.4B23.10B10.8B51.4B\$114.4B22.11B9.2C3.4B51.4B\$115.4B
22.2B.7B10.C4.4B51.4B\$116.4B21.11B6.3C6.4B51.4B10.2D\$117.4B19.11B7.C
9.4B51.4B8.D2.D\$118.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B7.D2.D\$119.4B17.11B19.4B60.D4.D
\$120.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B59.D4.D\$121.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B57.D6.D\$122.4B14.
7B6.A19.4B56.D6.D\$123.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B54.D8.D\$124.4B11.7B29.4B53.D8.D
\$125.4B9.8B30.4B52.D8.D\$126.4B7.8B32.4B51.10D\$127.4B5.9B33.4B50.D8.D\$
128.4B3.4B.6B33.4B49.D8.D\$129.4B.4B.7B34.4B48.D8.D\$130.7B2.6B36.4B47.
D8.D\$131.5B3.6B37.4B46.D8.D\$131.5B4.B2A2B38.4B45.D8.D\$131.6B2.2B2A3B
38.4B44.D8.D\$129.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B43.D8.D\$128.A.AB3.4B.5B41.4B42.D8.D\$
128.A7.9B42.4B\$127.2A8.8B43.4B\$138.7B44.4B\$139.6B7.2A36.4B\$131.2A5.7B
7.A38.4B\$132.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$132.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B\$133.2AB.2BA10B44.
4B\$135.3BABA10B\$135.3BABA9B\$137.2BA8B.B2A\$139.9B.BA.A\$139.3B2.4B4.A\$
137.5B3.4B3.2A\$137.2AB6.4B\$3A135.A8.4B\$2.A132.3A10.4B\$.A133.A13.4B\$
150.4B\$151.4B\$152.4B\$153.4B\$154.4B\$155.4B\$156.4B\$157.4B\$158.4B\$159.4B
\$160.4B\$161.4B\$162.4B6.7D\$163.4B6.D5.D\$164.4B5.D6.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D
\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D6.D\$173.7D\$173.D6.D\$173.D7.
D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D6.D\$173.D5.D\$172.7D24\$147.
2E\$141.4B2.2E2.4B\$140.4B6.4B\$139.4B6.4B\$138.4B6.4B\$137.4B6.4B\$136.4B
6.4B\$135.4B6.4B\$134.4B6.4B\$133.4B6.4B\$132.4B6.4B\$131.4B6.4B\$130.4B6.
4B\$129.4B6.7B\$128.4B6.10B13.A\$127.4B6.12B12.3A\$126.4B5.13B16.A21.BA2B
\$125.7B2.14B15.2A20.3AB10.A\$124.4B.20B14.4B17.A3B11.3A\$123.4B3.20B15.
3B15.B2AB15.A14.A\$122.4B5.19B14.4B14.4B15.2A12.3A\$121.4B6.20B13.5B12.
4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A\$120.4B6.21B12.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A\$119.4B6.21B13.8B
2.36B2.5B\$118.4B6.24B10.52B\$117.4B6.25B11.50B2A\$116.4B6.4B3.19B12.7B.
22B2A17B2A\$115.4B6.4B5.17B.B10.31B2A16B.B\$114.4B6.4B6.19B10.19B2.2B3.
23B\$113.4B6.4B7.20B8.17B11.10B2.9B\$112.4B6.4B9.22B2.2B.15B16.6B3.8B\$
111.4B6.4B10.41B19.3B4.7B\$110.4B6.4B13.30B.8B21.B3.11B\$101.B7.4B6.4B
15.25B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B\$100.6B2.4B6.4B16.25B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A2.12B\$
100.3BC2B.4B6.4B17.28B10.A18.3A4.11B\$100.2BCBC5B6.4B18.13B4.4B.3B.B
12.3A15.A4.4B.8B\$100.2BCBC4B6.4B19.8B2.4B4.4B19.A20.2A4.7B\$101.2BC5B
5.4B19.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.7B\$101.9B3.4B21.6B6.4B4.4B36.3A6.6B\$102.9B.4B
23.6B6.4B4.4B35.A8.7B\$101.3B2C9B23.7B7.4B4.4B43.8B\$100.4BCBC7B23.9B7.
3B5.4B43.8B\$99.7BC6B23.9B9.2B6.4B42.9B\$98.8B2C4B23.10B10.B7.4B40.6B.
4B\$97.6B3.6B22.13B17.4B39.7B.4B\$96.4B5.8B21.9B2A2B.B16.4B22.2A15.6B2.
4B\$95.4B6.9B20.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.4B\$94.4B6.11B19.14B2A17.4B
21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B\$93.4B6.5B2C6B18.15B19.4B21.2AB.13B2A2B5.4B\$92.
4B6.5BC2BC6B17.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B22.18B7.3B\$91.4B6.7B2C2B2.4B17.2A5.3B
4.2A19.4B21.17B9.2B\$90.3AB6.11B4.4B17.A4.B2AB4.A14.2A5.4B21.13B13.B\$
89.3BA6.11B6.4B13.3A6.2A6.3A11.A7.4B22.12B\$88.3BA6.12B7.4B12.A18.A12.
3A5.4B23.10B\$87.4B6.4B3.6B8.4B45.A6.4B22.11B\$86.4B6.4B5.3B11.4B52.4B
22.2B.7B\$85.4B6.4B6.3B12.4B37.D14.4B21.11B\$84.4B6.4B8.B14.4B35.D16.4B
19.11B\$83.4B6.4B25.4B8.2A24.D3.D13.4B18.11B\$82.4B6.4B27.4B7.A25.4D15.
4B17.11B\$81.4B6.4B29.4B3.BA.A45.4B16.8B2.B2A\$80.4B6.4B31.4B2.B2A47.4B
15.7B3.BA.A\$79.7B3.4B33.6B50.4B14.7B6.A\$78.10B.3B9.A25.5B51.4B13.6B7.
2A\$77.12B12.3A23.5B52.4B11.7B\$76.12B16.A21.7B52.4B9.8B\$75.13B15.2A20.
4B.4B5.A46.4B7.8B\$74.15B14.4B17.4B3.4B4.3A45.4B5.9B\$73.17B15.3B15.4B
5.4B6.A14.A30.4B3.4B.6B\$72.18B14.4B14.4B7.4B4.2A12.3A31.4B.4B.7B\$72.
19B13.5B12.4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A35.7B2.6B\$70.3A18B12.6B11.4B.14B4.5B6.2A
35.5B3.6B\$72.A17B13.8B2.36B2.5B35.5B4.B2A2B\$71.A20B10.52B36.7B2.2B2A
3B\$72.20B11.50B2A34.4B.4B.7B\$73.19B12.7B.22B2A17B2A33.4B3.4B.5B\$74.
17B12.31B2A16B.B33.C3B5.9B\$74.18B11.19B2.2B3.23B34.C3B7.8B\$74.18B10.
17B11.10B2.9B34.B3C9.7B\$75.22B2.2B.15B16.6B3.8B34.4B11.6B7.2A\$75.18B.
22B19.3B4.7B34.4B4.2A5.7B7.A\$77.14B.B.13B.8B21.B3.11B30.4B6.A6.7B3.BA
.A\$78.13B3.9B2A2B3.8B19.2A2.12B28.4B7.A.AB.11B.B2A\$78.13B.11B2A2B5.B
3.2A20.A2.12B27.4B9.2AB.2BA6B2A2B\$78.28B10.A18.3A4.11B26.4B12.3BABA4B
A2BA2B\$78.13B4.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.8B25.4B13.3BABA5B2A2B\$78.8B2.3B5.
4B19.A20.2A4.8B23.4B16.2BA8B.B2A\$77.8B4.4B4.4B40.A4.9B21.4B19.9B.BA.A
\$78.6B7.2A5.4B36.3A6.9B19.4B20.3B2.4B4.A\$79.6B6.A7.4B35.A8.10B17.4B
19.5B3.4B3.2A\$78.7B7.3A5.4B43.11B7.2CB5.4B20.2AB6.4B\$77.9B8.A6.4B43.
11B6.2CB.2B.4B22.A8.4B\$76.9B17.4B42.12B5.10B20.3A10.4B\$75.10B18.4B40.
6B.7B2.11B.2B18.A13.4B\$74.13B17.4B39.7B.7B.16B31.4B\$74.9B2A2B.B16.4B
22.2A15.6B2.23B32.4B\$74.9B2A3B2A16.4B22.A8.B4.8B3.21B2C32.4B\$74.14B2A
17.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.20B2C33.4B\$74.15B19.4B21.2A15B2A2B5.15B3.2B
35.4B\$74.4B.2B2.B2.5B18.4B21.19B7.9B2CB43.4B\$75.2A5.3B4.2A19.4B20.18B
9.8B2CB44.4B\$76.A4.B2AB4.A21.4B21.13B13.4B.4B46.4B\$73.3A6.2A6.3A19.4B
22.12B12.5B.3B47.4B\$73.A18.A20.4B23.10B10.8B.B49.4B\$114.4B22.11B9.2C
3.4B51.4B\$115.4B22.2B.7B10.C4.4B51.4B\$116.4B21.11B6.3C6.4B51.4B10.2D\$
117.4B19.11B7.C9.4B51.4B8.D2.D\$118.4B18.11B18.4B51.4B7.D2.D\$119.4B17.
11B19.4B60.D4.D\$120.4B16.8B2.B2A18.4B59.D4.D\$121.4B15.7B3.BA.A18.4B
57.D6.D\$122.4B14.7B6.A19.4B56.D6.D\$123.4B13.6B7.2A19.4B54.D8.D\$124.4B
11.7B29.4B53.D8.D\$125.4B9.8B30.4B52.D8.D\$126.4B7.8B32.4B51.10D\$127.4B
5.9B33.4B50.D8.D\$128.4B3.4B.6B33.4B49.D8.D\$129.4B.4B.7B34.4B48.D8.D\$
130.7B2.6B36.4B47.D8.D\$131.5B3.6B37.4B46.D8.D\$131.5B4.B2A2B38.4B45.D
8.D\$131.6B2.2B2A3B38.4B44.D8.D\$129.2A2B.4B.7B39.4B43.D8.D\$128.A.AB3.
4B.5B41.4B\$128.A7.9B42.4B\$127.2A8.8B43.4B\$138.7B44.4B\$139.6B7.2A36.4B
\$131.2A5.7B7.A38.4B\$132.A6.7B3.BA.A39.4B\$132.A.AB.11B.B2A41.4B\$133.2A
B.2BA10B44.4B\$135.3BABA10B\$135.3BABA9B\$137.2BA8B.B2A\$139.9B.BA.A\$139.
3B2.4B4.A\$137.5B3.4B3.2A\$137.2AB6.4B\$3A135.A8.4B\$2.A132.3A10.4B\$.A
133.A13.4B\$150.4B\$151.4B\$152.4B\$153.4B\$154.4B\$155.4B\$156.4B\$157.4B\$
158.4B\$159.4B\$160.4B\$161.4B\$162.4B6.7D\$163.4B6.D5.D\$164.4B5.D6.D\$173.
D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D6.D\$173.7D\$
173.D6.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D7.D\$173.D6.D\$173.D
5.D\$172.7D!``````
No doubt there's a also 180-degree one-time turner that keeps the glider color the same (i.e., shifts the returned glider over by one lane) that could be used in the A-circuit Fx119, but I can't lay my hands on it at the moment. The two-block one doesn't quite fit there.

EDIT: At the moment I also slightly prefer the Semi-Problematic Eater design, but not by much -- mostly because it allows tighter packing of gliders. I haven't actually done any performance tests, but I suspect that Golly will appreciate having gliders 512 ticks apart where that happens to be possible.

There are still a few unsolved technical glitches in that design, though -- don't we need a way to pull an elbow back at the very end of the construction cycle, while leaving behind two Semi-Problematic Blocks? I guess one block would end up on each side of your boat-bit-catcher constellation.