Hmm. Maybe run the south area's late evolution through catgl just in case; that's where the troublesome debris shows up.dvgrn wrote:Hmm. Adding a block here extracts a glider, and protects the catalyst from immediate destruction, and gets a Herschel out to the north. But it's probably still a bit too messy to be a very likely candidate for a complete cleanup:
The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1890
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
x = 25, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
10bo$10b3o$13bo$12b2o$23b2o$23bo$21bobo$21b2o4$2o$bo$bobo17b2obo$2b2o
17bob2o7$2bo$2bobo$2b3o$4bo2$14b2o$14b2o2b2o$18bobo$20bo$20b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4b2o5$17b2o$17bo$15bobo$15b2o2$2o$b2o$bo3$7b2o$7b2o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
That looks like a new Spartan NW15 (EDIT: using NW newlanes here now). NW8 and NW17 are the nearest ones in the old collection. I haven't gone back and hunted through the last several years of forum postings to collect all the HtoG's yet, though  it's possible Guam or someone found a NW15. Someone should start a new thread to get these things organized...!Extrementhusiast wrote:A possibly known Htoglider...
Extrementhusiast wrote:An Rtoglider...
Hm, I think that one's new too. It combines with one of the known HtoR to make a passable HtoG7; we already have one of those (and not much use for it that I know of) but it looks quite different. New one on the left, old one on the right, both with a F117 conduit leading in:
Code: Select all
#C [[ VIEWONLY HEIGHT 240 ZOOM 3.5 THUMBNAIL ]]
x = 178, y = 59, rule = LifeHistory
61.A$61.3A$64.A$63.2A$63.6B$65.5B$63.7B$62.8B$63.6B$62.7B.2B$58.3B2.
8B2A60.4B3.4B$56.15B2A61.4B3.4B$56.13B.2B63.4B3.4B$55.2A13B66.4B3.4B$
55.2AB.10B.2B65.4B3.4B$56.B2.15B64.4B3.4B$59.8BD6B65.4B3.4B5.2A$60.6B
3D5B66.4B3.4B3.B2AB$62.4BD7B67.4B3.4B2.3B$62.11B69.4B3.4B2.B.B$62.9B
72.4B3.8B$60.11B73.4B3.7B$60.10B75.4B2.7B$59.12B75.4B.7B$58.14B75.12B
4.2A$57.18B73.11B3.A.A$56.18B2A71.13B2.BA$55.19B2A70.17B$54.21B71.17B
$53.18B67.2A6.18B.3B$30.2A20.18B50.2A17.A6.23B$31.A19.19B51.A17.A.AB
4.23B$18.A11.A19.19B39.A11.A19.2AB.27B$18.3A9.2A17.23B36.3A9.2A20.30B
$21.A9.B16.24B39.A9.B20.31B$8.2A10.2A9.3B13.4B2.20B25.2A10.2A9.3B19.
32B$9.A10.5B5.6B10.4B2.22B25.A10.5B5.6B16.34B$9.A.AB9.4B3.10B6.4B.24B
25.A.AB9.4B3.10B11.36B$10.2AB.3B4.6B2.11B3.30B27.2AB.3B4.6B2.11B8.39B
$12.7B.13B2A15BD13B.10B27.7B.13B2A15BD35B2A$12.21B2A15BDBD4B.7B2.2B4.
2A27.21B2A15BDBD4B.28B2A$13.37B3D4B2.3B.B4.B4.A29.37B3D4B.29B$12.40BD
4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A25.40BD4B.8B3.15B$10.46B4.BA2.A4.A6.A23.46B.9B4.3B.9B
$8.18B.B3.13B.4B12.3A5.A.A26.18B.B3.13B.4B6.10B.2B3.B3.7B$8.2BC13B7.
10B3.4B22.2A26.2BC13B7.10B3.4B5.14B2A$7.3BCBC4B.6B12.4B3.4B14.3A33.3B
CBC4B.6B19.4B5.15B2A$8.2B3C4B2.B.5B9.4B3.4B15.A2.A33.2B3C4B2.B.5B17.
2A6.17B$7.5BC4B7.2A8.4B3.4B18.2A32.5BC4B7.2A18.A7.13B$6.10B8.A8.4B3.
4B52.10B8.A16.3A11.10B$5.4B16.3A4.4B3.4B52.4B16.3A13.A13.11B$4.4B19.A
3.4B3.4B52.4B19.A27.10B$3.B2AB23.4B3.4B52.B2AB49.8B$2.3BA23.4B3.4B52.
3BA53.3B$.B3A23.4B3.4B52.B3A55.4B$2BAB23.4B3.4B52.2BAB58.2A$26.4B3.4B
115.A$25.4B3.4B117.3A$24.4B3.4B120.A!

 Posts: 527
 Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART LOOP 40 GPS 10 ]]
x = 16, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
3.2A$3.2A2$3.4A3.2A$3.A2.AB.B2AB$4.3B2.B.2B$2.B2.7B$.12B$13B3D$B2C12B
D$2B2C9B3D$2BC11B$5B.4B$10B$8B$6B$.4B!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Here is a 6 SL seed for the eater on eater:dvgrn wrote: Unfortunately this new variant isn't quite Spartan either, or it would be quite handy in selfconstructing circuitry.
Code: Select all
x = 23, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11b2o5$2o$2o4bo4b2o$5bobo2bo2bo$5b2o4b2o$21b2o$21b2o$8b2o$8bobo$
9bo$b3o$3bo$2bo!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
No, but it doesn't quite look like a usable conduit  there are only a dozen ticks to do anything with the pi before the block catalyst is irretrievably threatened. Might get an RtoG out of it somehow, but I don't think the pi output can be attached to any known components.Sphenocorona wrote:Is this RtoPi known?
Without the extra block, the table performs the standard RtoB conversion. I seem to recall the table catalysis has been seen before, though it's not in Calcyman's conduit collection  I've added it here:
Code: Select all
#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL X 0 Y 0 ZOOM 4.62 HEIGHT 240 ]]
x = 135, y = 43, rule = LifeHistory
41.5D29.5D$41.D4.D28.D4.D$41.D5.D15.D11.D5.D$41.D5.D16.D10.D5.D$41.D
5.D17.D9.D5.D$41.D4.D19.D8.D4.D$41.5D9.13D7.5D$41.D2.D21.D8.D4.D$41.D
3.D19.D9.D5.D$41.D3.D18.D10.D5.D$41.D4.D16.D11.D5.D$41.D4.D28.D4.D$
41.D5.D27.5D7$112.B$111.2B$110.3B$109.4B$7.D29.D29.D29.D10.4B15.D$6.
3D27.3D27.3D27.3D8.4B15.3D$5.2D2BD25.2D2BD25.2D2BD4.2A19.2D2BD6.4B15.
2DB.D$4.6B24.6B24.6B4.A19.6B5.4B15.4B.B$4.6B24.6B24.6B.BA.A19.6B4.4B
16.6B$3.7B23.7B23.7B.B2A19.7B3.4B16.7B$4.8B22.8B22.8B22.12B18.8B$4.8B
22.8B22.7B23.11B19.8B$4.9B18.AB.9B21.7B23.10B18.B.9B$3.10B17.A.A10B
20.7B4.B18.10B.B16.2A10B$4.10B16.2A.7B.3B20.6B.B.2BA18.8B.2BA15.A.11B
$3.12B20.10B18.11BA.A16.11BA.A11.2A.A.B.10B$3.5BD6B20.3BD6B18.4B.D4B.
BA17.5BD4B.BA12.2A.2A2.3BD6B$3.4B3D5B19.3B3D5B19.3B3D3B20.4B3D3B21.3B
3D5B$3.4BD7B20.2BD7B20.2BD5B22.2BD4B23.2BD7B$2.12B22.8B22.6B24.6B24.
8B$.2A2B96.B2A$A2BAB96.BA.A$ABAB100.A$.A2B100.2A!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
That's a pretty nice one! For this purpose the rightmost block can usually be omitted, since it only suppresses a block that could be won't get in the way of the catalyst.chris_c wrote:Here is a 6 SL seed for the eater on eater...dvgrn wrote: Unfortunately this new variant isn't quite Spartan either, or it would be quite handy in selfconstructing circuitry.
It's also convenient that this is the same still life needed for the old F116 conduit. In Spartan constructible circuitry so far, only the F116 variant followed by F166 or Lx200 has been allowable. This is unfortunate, because circuits are generally useful in inverse proportion to their size and timing. That means that in your average unconstrained Hersrch search from (0,0,0) to big (X,Y,T), F116s are part of the best solutions a lot  probably more often than anything besides Fx77.
That said, even a 6sL seed is fairly expensive... especially since you have to account for construction direction, and three quarters of the time it will be necessary to build an extra boatorsomething to bounce a final glider in to trigger the seed. Also the eateroneater will usually have to be constructed first, which causes all kinds of headaches for some orientations. For the HtoG6, the nearby eater will have to be built after the eateroneater seed is triggered, and the same is (just barely) true for the nearby block in the F116.
We're pretty close to having workable scripts for "compiling" any regular Spartan pattern into either a onearm or a twoarm slowsalvo construction recipe. None of the pieces are much bigger or more difficult to build than any other piece, so we can always work incrementally from the most distant still lifes back toward the shotgun(s).
Throwing in eateroneaters or spark coils or tubwithtail eaters or eater2s or any other largerbutincrediblyuseful objects into constructible circuitry means that, well, somebody has to do a lot more coding.
And it's not really clear what the payoff will be. Circuitry with these catalysts in it will be smaller and more efficient (lower repeat time) than the pureSpartan version of the same circuit. But so far it's not really clear that it will be enough smaller. It's possible that the extra cost of the Spartan++ objects will make the final construction recipe longer and slower overall.
(I don't really believe that  it's probably significantly more efficient for (most) selfconstructing circuity to use some Spartan++ objects... maybe even a Snark here or there, for all I know. But it will probably take an order of magnitude longer to get an automated compiler working with such objects. Same with compiling Spartan++ circuitry recipes by hand, which is how I've been doing all the Spartan Geminoid selfconstructing patterns so far.)
To make a given object really painless to use in selfconstructing circuitry, it will be necessary to collect a large set of construction recipes for it, similar to what was done for the fishhook eater. For each orientation we'll need a recipe that builds the object at the back edge of its reaction envelope, and one on the left edge, and one on the right edge. Once we've collected all of those recipes for some nonSpartan object, it becomes just as good as any Spartan object (except for the extra cost in gliders.)
But even with Guam's work on tubwithtail eaters and spark coils (links above) we're not anywhere near there yet.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 33, rule = B3/S23
16b2o$16bo$14bobo$5b2o7b2o$5bobo$6b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o$5b2o4bo$5b2o3b3o
$9b2obo11$5b2o$5bobo$6b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o$5b2o4bo$5b2o3b3o$9b2obo!
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Wow! Apparently, because nobody has ever done the search you just did for ways to use the ship+eater catalyst.Kazyan wrote:Why have I not seen these converters before?
It's not terribly easy to connect the inputs and outputs in the BtoR, but it can certainly be done. Here's a very nice L200, which I assume I would know about if it had already been invented. We have an L198 and an Lx200, but this is something new and different:
Code: Select all
x = 49, y = 61, rule = LifeHistory
34.2A$33.A2.A$34.2A4$33.8B$33.9B$33.9B$33.9B$34.4B3DB$35.4BD2B$35.2B
3D2B$36.6B$36.7B$36.8B$37.8B$37.9B$36.6B.3B$36.7B.2B$37.6B2.B$37.6B$
37.6B$36.8B$35.8B$35.9B$35.9B$34.10B$34.3B2A5B$33.4B2A5B$33.11B$28.2A
.A7BD4B$28.A.2A2.4B3D2B$35.2B2D2BD4.2A$36.6B4.A$36.6B.BA.A$35.7B.B2A$
30.A5.8B$30.3A3.7B$7.2A24.A2.7B$8.A13.2A6.3A2.7B4.B$8.A.AB9.B2A2B4.A
5.6B.B.2BA$9.2AB.3B6.4B.3B5.11BA.A$11.7B2.11B4.5BD4B.BA$11.22B.B.3B3D
3B$12.27BD5B$11.25B2D7B$9.28B2D6B$7.29B2D6B$7.2BC26BD7B$6.3BCBC4B.24B
.3B$7.2B3C4B2.16B2.B.B3.B2A$6.5BC4B2.7B.4B6.B2AB2.BA.A$5.10B4.6B2.2B
8.2A4.B2A$4.4B11.6B16.4B$4.3B13.3B18.2A$2.4B12.7B17.A$2.2A14.2A.B.2A
14.3A$3.A15.A3.A15.A$3A13.3A5.3A$A15.A9.A!
#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ]]
The HtoG is new also, of course  it's a little harder to hook up than the HtoR, actually, since the output glider means that the above hat trick doesn't work. But there are options:
Code: Select all
#C new HtoG, path 56
x = 57, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
40.B$40.2B$7.2A31.3B$8.A14.2A15.4B$8.A.AB10.B2AB15.4B$9.2AB.2B7.4B6.
4B6.4B$11.5B6.4B5.6B6.4B9.A$5.2A4.7B4.5B4.8B5.4B6.3A$5.A5.7B3.7B.12B
4.4B4.A$6.3A2.7B.17B.4B.B2.5B.B.2A$8.A24BD10BD10B$10.23B2D10BD7B$11.
21B2D11B2D6B$11.33B2D6B$2.2A3.2A.B.19B.12BD7B$2.A.A.A.A23B.B2.13B.3B$
4.A.A.B.21B5.2B2.2B2.B.B3.B2A$3.2A.2A22B7.AB5.B2AB2.BA.A$7.B.21B6.A.A
6.2A4.B2A$9.19B8.2A11.4B$10.13B2.2B22.2A$11.11B28.A$8.14B25.3A$7.15B
25.A$7.14B$7.12B$7.B3C4B.2B$7.2BC4B$7.2B3C2B$7.6B$6.7B$5.4B.B$4.4B$4.
3B$2.2AB$.A.AB$.A$2A!
#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ]]
So we at last have a way to turn a tandem glider 90 degrees, without mirrorreflecting it, that's reasonably compact and has the best possible compression rate of 117 ticks. The L200 itself recovers in as little as 59 ticks if you suppress the output Herschel's glider; that's very nearly as good as any Herschel conduit can manage.
Time for some congratulatory fireworks, I think!
Code: Select all
#C L200 + Herschel transceiver emu loop
#C [[ AUTOSTART LOOP 5616 ZOOM 3.6 THEME 2 ANGLE 45 ]]
x = 168, y = 168, rule = B3/S23
89b2o$88bobo$76b2o3b2o5bo$76bobobobo4b2o$78bobo$76bobobobo$76b2o3b2o7$
81b3o$82bo$82b3o7b2o$92bobo$94bo$94b2o13$83b2o$83b2o22b2o$107b2o$90bob
2o$90b2obo$74b2o33b2o$75bo33b2o$75bobo44b2o$76b2o44bo$120bobo$120b2o$
42b2o80b2o$42b2o67b2o11b2o$38bo35bo35b2o3bo$38b3o32bobo33bo6bo$41bo32b
o20b2o11bo3bo3b7o$40b2o11bo40b2obo11bo2bobob4o$52bobo7b2o30bo2bo12b6ob
obo3bo$52bobo7b2o25b3ob2ob2o17b2o4b2o3b2o$53bo35bo2b2o2bo19bo8bo2bo$
89bo5bo29bobo$90b2o2bo24bo6bo$92b2o24b2o$77b2o33bo5bo$50b2o24bobo4b2o
7bo19bo$50b2o24b2o5b2o6bobo18bo$36b2o54b2o$36b2o41b2o$32b2o45bo48b3o$
32b2o46b3o45bo$82bo46bo$118b2o$118b2o5$133b2o$132b2o$134bo2$18bo$16b3o
103bo$15bo18b2o20b2o63bobo7bo$15b2o17bo20bobo64bo6b3o$35bo20bo54b2o15b
o32b2ob2o$2o32b2o75bobo14b2o31bo3bo$o111b2o48b3o$b3o104b2o$3bo103bobo
52b3o$107bo46bo6bo3bo$106b2o44b3o6b2ob2o$15bo15b2o22b2o54b2o22b2o15bob
o$13bobo15b2o22b2o54b2o22b2o15bo$2b2ob2o6b3o44b2o$2bo3bo6bo46bo$3b3o
52bobo103bo$58b2o104b3o$3b3o48b2o60b3o48bo$2bo3bo31b2o14bobo58bo2bo13b
2o32b2o$2b2ob2o32bo15b2o54bo3bo2bo13bo$36b3o6bo64bobobo2bo15bo17b2o$
36bo7bobo63b2o2bo2b2o13b2o18bo$45bo69bo2b3o28b3o$116bo3b2o27bo$117b2o
2bo$33bo84b3o$34b2o$33b2o5$48b2o$48b2o$38bo46bo$39bo45b3o46b2o$37b3o
48bo32bo12b2o$87b2o31bobo7b2o$74b2o43bo3bo6b2o$55bo18bobo6b2o5b2o27bo
3b2o$55bo19bo7b2o4bobo19b3o5b3o2bo$49bo5bo33b2o28bo$48b2o24b2o43b2o$
41bo6bo24bo2b2o40b2o3bo$40bobo29bo5bo38b2ob3o$39bo2bo8bo19bo2b2o2bo40b
3o$40b2o3b2o4b2o17b2ob2ob3o25b2o7b2o5b2o$44bo3bobob6o12bo2bo30b2o8b2o
3b3o$48b4obobo2bo11bob2o47bo4b2o$45b7o3bo3bo11b2o20bo24bo2bo4bo$51bo6b
o33bobo23bo2bo5b3o$52bo3b2o35bo25bo9bo$42b2o11b2o67b2o$42b2o72b2o6b2o$
46b2o67bo2bo$45bobo68bobo$45bo44b2o15b2o8bo$44b2o44bobo13bobo$57b2o33b
o15bo$57b2o33b2o$74bob2o20bo$74b2obo20b2o$59b2o36bobo$59b2o22b2o$83b2o
13$72b2o$73bo$73bobo$74b2o7b3o$85bo$84b3o7$85b2o3b2o$85bobobobo$87bobo
$79b2o4bobobobo$79bo5b2o3b2o$77bobo$77b2o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
With a F117+R64 added, the repeat time rises to 156 ticks  still not too shabby. You end up with decent adjustable p1282+8N loops, which can build any gun you want down to p156 by adding more signals in the loop, with the right adjustment:
Code: Select all
#C p1282+8N loop, with attached Snarkassisted Herschel output
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART THEME 3 ZOOM 3.1 ANGLE 270 STOP 2564 ]]
x = 144, y = 200, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5bobo$7bo5b2o3b2o$7b2o4bobobobo$15bobo$13bobobobo$13b2o3b2o2$74bo
20bo$72b3o11bo7bobo$71bo14b3o6bo$71b2o16bo15b2o$88b2o14bobo$48bo55b2o$
34bo13b3o57b2o$2b2o28b3o16bo56bobo$bobo27bo18b2o58bo$bo29b2o77b2o$2o
79b2o22b2o$81b2o22b2o5$41b2o$41b2o41b2o$64b2o19bo20bo$64bobo17bo20bobo
$66bo17b2o20b2o$4b2o48b2o10b2o$4b2o48bo$10b2o32b2o9b3o$10b2o33bo11bo$
42b3o$42bo$8b2o$8b2o5b2o$15b2o3$50b2o$50b2o$55bo26b2o$53b3o26b2o$52bo
33b2o$40bo11b2o32b2o$30b2o7bobo58b2o$30b2o7bobo58b2o$40bo4$103bo$42b2o
58bobo7b2o$42b2o58bobo7b2o$56b2o32b2o11bo$56b2o33bo$60b2o26b3o$60b2o
26bo$92b2o$92b2o3$127b2o$127b2o5b2o$134b2o$101bo$99b3o$86bo11bo33b2o$
86b3o9b2o20b2o$89bo30b2o8bo2bo4b2o$76b2o10b2o35b2o3bo7b2o$36b2o20b2o
17bo47bob4ob2o$36bobo20bo17bobo46b2o4b2o$37bo20bo19b2o47bo4b2o$58b2o
41b2o25bo2bo$101b2o26b3o3$114bo$114bobo$37b2o22b2o15bo35b2o$37b2o22b2o
15bobo61b2o$32b2o44b3o61bo$33bo46bo11b2o46bobo$33bobo56bo47b2o$34b2o
57b3o$38b2o55bo$37bobo14b2o$37b2o15bo$48bo6b3o$47bobo7bo$48bo2$124b2o
3b2o$124bobobobo$126bobo$124bobobobo4b2o$124b2o3b2o5bo$136bobo$137b2o
14$46bo$44b2o$45b2o6$23bo$23b3o$26bo$25b2o3$14b2ob2o$14b2obo$17bo$17b
3o4b2o$15b2o3bo3b2o$14bo2b4o$14b2obo15b2o$15bo2b3o12bobo$15bo5bo13bo$
16b5o14b2o$18bo9$55b2o$55b2o$60bo$58b3o$57bo$57b2o$35b2o$35b2o6$47b2o$
47b2o$61b2o$61b2o$65b2o$65b2o14$41b2o20b2o$41bobo20bo$42bo20bo$63b2o2$
94bo$93bobo$93bobo$94bo$42b2o22b2o$42b2o22b2o$37b2o$38bo$38bobo$39b2o$
43b2o$42bobo14b2o$42b2o15bo$53bo6b3o$52bobo7bo$53bo!
When a new conduit shows up, I always hope that it will allow a smaller or faster Snarkassisted GtoH, but there's no hope of that here since there aren't any extra glider outputs. Still lots of other things to try, though. I definitely haven't even looked at the rest of Calcyman's component collection (which is starting to need some serious updating) to see what else these converters might be attached to  I know there are at least a few more workable options out there, but I think it's somebody else's turn...!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
It might be partly because there is generally less focus on B>X converters (that block is hard to get rid of). Congratulations on the great discovery!Kazyan wrote:Why have I not seen these converters before?
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
The ship+eater and doubleeater catalyst are broadly applicable, but obscure and apparently lessexplored. I just started using them and soon, discovery.
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Ok so here is an Fx245:dvgrn wrote:I know there are at least a few more workable options out there, but I think it's somebody else's turn...!
Code: Select all
x = 63, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
29.A$28.A.A7.A$28.BA2B4.3A$18.2A9.2B4.A$17.BA.AB2.6B5.2A$17.2B2A10B3.
3B3.7B.B$15.2AB.11B2.3B5.13B.B$14.A.AB4.38B$14.A6.40BD$13.2A4.B.38B3D
B$18.2A22B2A15BDBD$18.2A.21B2A15BD$19.30B3.2B2.2B$21.6B.2B.B3.B2.10B$
21.6B12.6B$20.7B13.3B$21.8B11.B$21.8B10.2A$18.AB.9B9.A$17.A.A10B10.A$
17.2A.7B.3B8.2A$22.10B$22.10B$21.11B$22.10B$21.B.8B$20.9B$18.11B$18.
10B$17.12B$16.14B$16.17B$17.15B2A$17.15B2A$16.17B$13.16B$12.16B$12.
16B$11.16B$10.20B$10.20B$11.20B$10.22B$8.24B$6.25B$6.2BA13B.10B$5.3BA
BA4B.7B2.2B4.2A$6.2B3A4B2.3B.B4.B4.A$5.5BA4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$4.10B4.BA
2.A4.A6.A$3.4B12.3A5.A.A$2.4B22.2A$.4B14.3A$4B15.A2.A$3B18.2A$2B$B!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
#C L560+4N (left) and R328 (right)
#C Repeat time 271 (or a few overclocked smaller periods)
#C thanks to the slow BtoH at the end
#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ZOOM 2.8 ]]
x = 214, y = 85, rule = LifeHistory
99.A$99.3A68.2A$82.2A18.A68.A14.2A$83.A17.2A4.B63.A.AB10.B2AB8.2A$82.
A18.8B63.2AB.2B7.4B7.B2A2B$82.2A19.8B5.2A56.5B6.4B8.4B$83.B18.9B6.A
50.2A4.7B4.5B5.6B5.2A$83.3B15.12B.3A51.A5.7B3.7B.8B.2B2.B2AB$82.6B12.
14BA54.3A2.7B.22B2.2B$78.B2.10B8.15B57.A35B$75.17B3.2B.15B60.36B$75.
10B2A15BC11B60.32B2A2B$75.10B2A15BCBC10B59.32B2A3B$75.27B3C4B.B2AB2A
49.2A3.2A.B.35B$75.29BC4B2.A3.A49.A.A.A.A38B$75.33B4.3A52.A.A.B.30B.
7B$75.3B5.13B.4B65.2A.2A23B3.B2.4B.6B$77.3B3.7B.4B.4B12.3A55.B.21B3.
3B2.9B$78.2A10.4B.4B12.A3.A56.20B3.B2AB3.8B$78.A10.4B.4B13.2A.2A57.
13B.4B5.2A5.8B$79.3A6.4B.4B77.11B.4B14.7B$81.A5.4B.4B75.18B16.6B$86.
4B.4B75.18B17.2B3D2B$77.2A6.4B.4B76.17B18.2BD4B$76.B2AB4.4B.4B77.16B
19.B3D4B$41.A35.3B3.4B.4B78.8B.6B20.9B$39.3A34.B.B3.4B.4B79.7B3.4B21.
9B$38.A36.10B.4B80.7B2.4B22.9B$38.2A33.11B.4B81.6B2.4B24.8B$36.4B11.
2A19.11B.4B81.7B.4B$35.2AB4.2A6.A.A17.12B.4B81.12B$35.A.AB2.B2AB5.BA
17.12B.4B81.12B$36.2AB3.B.B2.B3.2B15.9B2A6B81.12B33.2A$36.3B.13B2.B
10.10BA2BA4B.B79.7BD4B33.A2.A$37.20B8.12B2A9B78.5B3D2B35.2A$37.21B6.
6B2A17B77.B.2B2D2BD4.2A$36.22B4.8B2A16B75.2A4.6B4.A$36.22B2.29B75.A4.
6B.BA.A$36.53B72.3A4.7B.B2A$36.9B3.4B.35B72.A8.8B$33.AB.10B2.40B73.5A
3.7B$32.A.A11B4.31B2.B.B54.2A24.A2.7B$33.A2B.B.6B7.28B2.3B56.A13.2A6.
3A2.7B4.B$34.B4.7B7.27B2.B2AB55.A.AB9.B2A2B4.A5.6B.B.2BA$38.7B10.24B
4.2A57.2AB.3B6.4B.3B5.11BA.A$38.7B13.17B.B.B2A63.7B2.11B4.5BD4B.BA$
37.8B15.9B.6B2.BA.A62.22B.B.3B3D3B$35.2AB.7B16.6B5.2B6.A63.27BD5B$34.
A.AB.6B5.2A10.8B11.2A61.25B2D7B$34.A4.6B3.B.A12.5B2A72.28B2D6B$33.2A
4.D2B2D2B.BA.A14.3B2A70.29B2D6B$.2A35.2B3D2B.2B2A16.2B72.2BC26BD7B$A
2.A33.4BD2B.4B16.4B70.3BCBC4B.24B.3B$.2A33.12B17.B2AB71.2B3C4B2.16B2.
B.B3.B2A$35.12B19.2A71.5BC4B2.7B.4B6.B2AB2.BA.A$34.12B92.10B4.6B2.2B
8.2A4.B2A$33.4B.7B92.4B11.6B16.4B$8B24.4B2.6B93.3B13.3B18.2A$9B22.4B
2.7B91.4B12.7B17.A$9B21.4B3.7B91.2A14.2A.B.2A14.3A$9B20.6B.8B92.A15.A
3.A15.A$.4B3DB19.16B89.3A13.3A5.3A$2.4BD2B18.17B89.A15.A9.A$2.2B3D2B
17.18B$3.6B16.18B$3.7B14.4B.11B$3.8B5.2A5.4B.13B$4.8B3.B2AB3.20B$4.9B
2.3B3.21B.B$3.6B.4B2.B3.23B2A.2A$3.7B.30B.B.A.A$4.38BA.A.A.A$4.35B.B.
2A3.2A$3.3B2A32B$4.2B2A32B$5.36B$7.35BA$6.2B2.22B.7B2.3A$5.B2AB2.2B.
8B.7B3.7B5.A$6.2A5.6B5.5B4.7B4.2A$13.4B8.4B6.5B$13.2B2AB7.4B7.2B.B2A$
15.2A8.B2AB10.BA.A$26.2A14.A$42.2A!
Also, I was wrong in a previous post about the Rtopi converter having the pi too close to be useful. A variant of that Rtopi is already in Calcyman's collection: it's a Btopi, using a block in that same position relative to the pi. The table catalyst now seems vaguely familiar, too, so it's possible someone (Guam?) may have posted it before.
Anyway, as an apology, I've included the table+block Rtopi in a probablyneverbeforeseen composite Fx conduit (and G1 tandemglider emitter). It's probably a good idea to forget about this one quickly  best not to even collect the abysmal statistics on it:
Code: Select all
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART STOP 999 ]]
x = 127, y = 107, rule = LifeHistory
43.2A3.2A$43.2A2.A.3A$47.A4.A$43.4A.2A2.A$43.A2.A.A.A.2A$46.A.A.A.A$
47.2A.A.A$51.A2$37.2A$38.A7.2A$38.A.A5.2A17.A$39.2A22.3A$62.A$62.2A3$
70.2A.2A$71.A.2A$49.2A20.A$49.A13.2A4.3A$30.A19.3A10.2A3.A3.2A$28.5A
14.3A2.A15.4A2.A$27.A5.A13.A2.A.A.2A15.A.2A$27.A2.3A12.A.A2.A2.A.A12.
3A2.A$26.2A.A15.2A4.A.A13.A5.A$26.A2.4A19.2A14.5A13.2A3.2A$27.2A3.A3.
2A32.A13.3A.A2.2A$29.3A4.2A45.A4.A$29.A53.A2.2A.4A$26.2A.A52.2A.A.A.A
2.A$26.2A.2A52.A.A.A.A$83.A.A.2A$84.A$37.2A$38.A58.2A$35.3A50.2A7.A$
35.A52.2A5.A.A$95.2A7$85.2A$86.A$83.3A$83.A2$19.A$19.3A6.2A$22.A5.2A$
21.2A2$30.D7.D$22.2A7.D6.D.D50.A$22.2A7.2D5.3D.2A45.3A$30.2D8.D.2A22.
D21.A$30.D35.2D8.D11.2A$67.2D5.3D$22.2A43.D6.D$22.2A42.D7.D3$116.D$
22.2A90.3D$22.A74.2A15.D$19.2A.A42.2A30.2A15.D$19.2A.2A5.D35.2A7.2A
49.A$28.3D42.A.A48.A.A$28.D44.A50.A.A$51.2A19.2A10.2A39.A$52.A32.A$
49.3A30.3A9.2A$49.A32.A11.A$61.2A32.A$61.A32.2A$62.3A$36.2A26.A$36.2A
12$12.C$12.C.C20.2A$12.3C20.A$14.C10.2A3.2A4.3A$23.A2.A4.A6.A$23.3A5.
A.A$32.2A$23.3A$3.A.2A16.A2.A$.3A.2A18.2A$A$.3A.2A$3.A.A$3.A.A$4.A!
There are other dependent conduits as well, but besides the Lx198 which doesn't quite fit, I think all the rest are periodic, and I'm refusing to look at those  it might encourage them.
I remember Guam did some really clever things with that Fx119like pitoHerschel component, though, that I haven't really gotten used to yet  so I might easily be missing something good.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Here is a dead spark coil near to the back of the reaction envelope in ten gliders from a traffic light. I reckon it should be usuable for all 4 orientations of the Herschel transmitter without massive difficulty.dvgrn wrote:For each orientation we'll need a recipe that builds the object at the back edge of its reaction envelope, and one on the left edge, and one on the right edge. Once we've collected all of those recipes for some nonSpartan object, it becomes just as good as any Spartan object (except for the extra cost in gliders.)
But even with Guam's work on tubwithtail eaters and spark coils (links above) we're not anywhere near there yet.
Code: Select all
x = 918, y = 891, rule = B3/S23
913bo$913bo$913bo2$909b3o3b3o2$913bo$913bo$913bo29$885bo$885b2o$884bob
o79$790b3o$792bo$791bo98$692b3o$694bo$693bo85$613bo$613b2o$612bobo99$
518b3o$520bo$519bo98$421b3o$423bo$422bo80$301b2o$300bobo$302bo98$196b
2o$195bobo$197bo98$102b2o$101bobo$103bo98$b2o$obo$2bo!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Yes, indeed  a little messy, maybe but quite workable.chris_c wrote:Here is a dead spark coil near to the back of the reaction envelope in ten gliders from a traffic light. I reckon it should be usuable for all 4 orientations of the Herschel transmitter without massive difficulty.
I was worried about the orientation where the associated eater in the tandemglider converter is behind the spark coil  see the last pattern in this posting for all four construction cases (how convenient!). Luckily there's just exactly enough room for the eater to be constructed first. Even the extra beehive behind the spark coil can be cleaned up, though it's out of the way so it could just be left there for decoration.
That takes care of singlearm constructions of H>2G. I'm not sure about Guam's twoarm construction recipes, but there's generally a lot more flexibility there  and of course we can always just use onearm recipes instead! I wonder how often it will turn out to be more efficient for the two arms to wander off and do singlearm slowsalvo constructions in two places at once?
Once the current excitement dies down, I'm thinking it's time to finish stringing together a workable design for a twoarm quadraticgrowth Geminoid replicator, quite possibly including things like these spark coils.
(On the other hand, I'd like to finish the Demonoid spaceship before getting too deep into the replicator project. Too many interesting things to do around here...!)

 Posts: 527
 Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
15.2C$3.2A11.C$4.A11.C.C$3.A13.2C$3.2A$4.B17.2E$4.3B15.2E$3.6B$2.10B$
2.11B3.2B2.2B$2BD3B2A15BC$2B2D2B2A15BCBC$.2B2D18B3CB$2.BD21BC$2.D21B$
4.13B.B$4.7B.B!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Yes, actually! He're something that works but kills the Herschel, and something that almost works but leaves activity.Sphenocorona wrote:Any chance of restoring the yellow block here (preferably without wiring up a glider to it and keeping the advantages of the FNG suppression?)Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory 15.2C$3.2A11.C$4.A11.C.C$3.A13.2C$3.2A$4.B17.2E$4.3B15.2E$3.6B$2.10B$ 2.11B3.2B2.2B$2BD3B2A15BC$2B2D2B2A15BCBC$.2B2D18B3CB$2.BD21BC$2.D21B$ 4.13B.B$4.7B.B!
Code: Select all
x = 26, y = 15, rule = LifeHistory
2A19.2A$A8.A12.A$.3A3.3A12.A.2A$3.A2.A16.A.A$6.2A2$2C18.2C$2C18.2C4$.
C19.C$.C.C17.C.C$.3C17.3C$3.C19.C!
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.

 Posts: 527
 Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
2.2C$.C.C$.2C3$2C$2C4$.C$.C.C$.3C$3.C!
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
3.A2.A2.2A$3.4A2.2A2$.10A$A.A8.A$A3.2A.2A2.A$.3A.A.C.A.2A$3.A.C3.A$4.
2C2.CA3$.2C$.2C4$2.C$2.C.C$2.3C$4.C!
Code: Select all
#C [[ THUMBNAIL GPS 10 STOP 42 ]]
x = 14, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
.2E4.E$E2.E3.3E$3E.E5.E$4.7E$2.2E7.2E$.E3.2E.2E3.E$.E.2E.E.E.3C$2.E.C
.E.C.C$5.2C.C.C$9.C2$2.2C$2.2C4$3.C$3.C.C$3.3C$5.C!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Conveniently, it allows for a much smaller p59 emu:dvgrn wrote:The L200 itself recovers in as little as 59 ticks if you suppress the output Herschel's glider.
Code: Select all
x = 190, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
36bo35b2o12bo35b2o12bo$23bo9bo2b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o24bo$
23b3o5b3o5bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo16bo7bobo$10bo15bo3bo7bo3bobo
29b2o12bo3bobo29b2o12bo3bobo16b3o6bo$8b3o14b2o3b2o5bo3bobo43bo3bobo43b
o3bobo20bo15b2o$7bo29b2o3bo44b2o3bo44b2o3bo20b2o14bobo$7b2o57bo49bo62b
2o$64b3o47b3o66b2o$4b2o5b2o24bo2bo22bo33b2o14bo45bo15bo7bobo$4bobo4b2o
23bo3bo9b2o11b2o31bobo14b2o42b2ob2o12b3o8bo$5b2o19b3o7bo4bo8b2o25b3o
15b2obo58bo15b2o2bo7b2o$22bo13bo4bo35bo2bo15b2o41b2o16bo3bo11bo3bob3o$
21b3o13bo3bo17b3o15bob2o16bo40b3o17b3o12bobo4b2o$20b2ob2o13bobo17b2obo
14bo57b2o4bo38bo$19b3o2b2o31b2obo13bo2bo25b2o29bo2b2o35b2ob2o$20b2o2b
2o32bobo13bobobo3bo19bo32b2o39bo$23b3o33b2o4bo9b2obo4bo31bo20bo30bo$6b
3o14b2o38bobo11bo4bo30bobo50bobo$2bo5bo55b2o47b3o9b2o32b2o5bobo$bobo4b
2obo27b2o47b2o23bo11b2o11b2o20bo4b2ob2o$2bo6b3o7bo6b2o11bobo46bo12b3o
34bo20bo$10bo6b3o6b2o13bo47b3o47b3o17b2o$16bo24b2o48bo11bo37bo$17b3o
42b2o3bo35b2o7b2o3bo69b2o$19bo42bo3bobo34b2o7bo3bobo56bo11bo$4b2o43b2o
12bo3bobo29b2o12bo3bobo54b2o9bobo$3bobo42bobo13bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo48b2o
3b4o8b2o$3bo44bo12b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o47b2o2b2o3b3o$2b2o43b2o12bo35b2o
12bo61bo5bo$8b2o8b2obo157bo$7bo2bo7bob2o151bo4bo6b2o$7bo2bo161b2o2bo8b
obo$7bo164b2obo11bo$7b2o3bo160b2o12b2o$8bo2b2obo$9b3o2bo$188b2o$184b2o
2bo$184bobobo$169b2o16bo$170bo$8b3o156b3o15bo$8bo2b2o154bo16bobo$9b3o
173bo$bo8bo175b3o$b3o175bo8bo$4bo173b3o$3bobo16bo154b2o2bo$4bo15b3o
156b3o$19bo$2bo16b2o$bobobo$bo2b2o$2o$175bo2b3o$175bob2o2bo$b2o12b2o
160bo3b2o$2bo11bob2o164bo$2bobo8bo2b2o161bo2bo$3b2o6bo4bo151b2obo7bo2b
o$10bo157bob2o8b2o$10bo5bo61bo12b2o35bo12b2o43b2o$10b3o3b2o2b2o47b2o5b
3o12bo27b2o5b3o12bo44bo$3b2o8b4o3b2o48bo4bo13bobo28bo4bo13bobo42bobo$
2bobo9b2o54bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo12b2o43b2o$2bo11bo56bobo3bo7b2o34bobo
3bo42bo$b2o69bo3b2o7b2o35bo3b2o42b3o$48bo37bo11bo48b2o24bo$29b2o17b3o
47b3o47bo13b2o6b3o6bo$30bo20bo34b3o12bo46bobo11b2o6bo7b3o6bo$20b2ob2o
4bo20b2o11b2o11bo23b2o47b2o27bob2o4bobo$21bobo5b2o32b2o9b3o47b2o55bo5b
o$21bobo50bobo30bo4bo11bobo38b2o14b3o$22bo30bo20bo31bo4bob2o9bo4b2o33b
3o$13bo39b2o32bo19bo3bobobo13bobo32b2o2b2o$11b2ob2o35b2o2bo29b2o25bo2b
o13bob2o31b2o2b3o$10bo38bo4b2o57bo14bob2o17bobo13b2ob2o$8b2o4bobo12b3o
17b3o40bo16b2obo15b3o17bo3bo13b3o$8b3obo3bo11bo3bo16b2o41b2o15bo2bo35b
o4bo13bo$3b2o7bo2b2o15bo58bob2o15b3o25b2o8bo4bo7b3o19b2o$4bo8b3o12b2ob
2o42b2o14bobo31b2o11b2o9bo3bo23b2o4bobo$4bobo7bo15bo45bo14b2o33bo22bo
2bo24b2o5b2o$5b2o66b3o47b3o$9b2o62bo49bo57b2o$8bobo14b2o20bo3b2o44bo3b
2o44bo3b2o29bo$8b2o15bo20bobo3bo43bobo3bo43bobo3bo5b2o3b2o14b3o$19bo6b
3o16bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo7bo3bo15bo$18bobo7bo16bo4bo13bo
bo28bo4bo13bobo28bo4bo5b3o5b3o$19bo24b2o5b3o12bo27b2o5b3o12bo27b2o5b3o
2bo9bo$53bo12b2o35bo12b2o35bo!
There is also this B>G which gives a "relatively nice" R>Pi>B>G:dvgrn wrote:I was wrong in a previous post about the Rtopi converter having the pi too close to be useful.... I think that the above mess, possibly along with some equally hideous variants involving the Lx200 dependent conduit, is the only known way to use that table+block Rtopi.
Code: Select all
x = 40, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
3.2A16.2A$3.2A16.A$19.A.A$3.4A3.2A3.2A2.2A$3.A2.A3.2A3.2A4$13.3D4.2A$
.2C12.D4.2A$2.2C9.3D$2.C10.2D2.D$14.3D$15.D3$9.2A$9.2A6$2A$.A$.A.A$2.
2A$38.2D$37.D.D$39.D4$3.2A$2.A.A$2.A$.2A2$12.2A$12.A.A$13.A$28.2A$28.
A$29.3A$31.A!
I specifically remember Guam posting the table variant of the R>B.dvgrn wrote:The table catalyst now seems vaguely familiar, too, so it's possible someone (Guam?) may have posted it before.

 Posts: 527
 Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
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#C [[ AUTOSTART THUMBNAIL GPS 7 LOOP 28 ]]
x = 16, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
4.A$3.A.A$3.A.A6.2A$.3A.2A6.A$A6.B2.3A$.3AB2A3BA$3.A.2A2B$4.B.2B2.B$
2.B2.8B$.12BD$13B2D$B2C11B2D$2B2C10BD$2BC10BD$5B.4B$10B$8B$6B$.4B!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
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#C PitoPi
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART ZOOM 12 HEIGHT 480 LOOP 40 ]]
x = 37, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
5b2o23b2o$6bo23bo$6bobo19bobo$2o5b2o19b2o5b2o$bo33bo$bobo13b3o13bobo$
2b2o12bo3bo12b2o$6b2o8b2ob2o8b2o$5bobo21bobo$5b2o23b2o!
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Yup  as usual, you can get a pi in, but it may still be tricky to get a signal out:Kazyan wrote:I'm starting to really like the shipandeater catalyst.
#C PitoPi
...Can't be strung together, unfortunately, but I'll ask Bellman if it has any better ideas.
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x = 37, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory
17.3D$17.D.D$17.D.D$5.2A23.2A$6.A23.A$6.A.A19.A.A$2A5.2A19.2A5.2A$.A
33.A$.A.A29.A.A$2.2A13.3D13.2A$6.2A9.D.D9.2A$5.A.A9.D.D9.A.A$5.2A23.
2A3$32.A$30.3A$29.A$29.2A3$7.2A19.2A$7.2A19.2A10$24.3C$15.2A8.C$16.A
6.3C$13.3A$13.A6$33.2A$33.A.A$35.A$35.2A!
This may be a case for ptbsearch, actually: I'm not sure if anyone has done a thorough search for likely transparent block/beehive/whatever locations to draw a pi explosion away from a conduit like this, before the backwash destroys the nearest catalysts. Ptbsearch hasn't been applied to this since the late 1990's, anyway, I think. And it will also be interesting to see what Bellman comes up with, of course!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Anyway, here's a transparent block reaction found through sheer dumb luck. A quick 2catalyst run from generations 90130 using the catalyst searcher doesn't yield anything, so I guess it's up to manual searches or Bellman catalysts to get that working (and hopefully, delete that annoying blinker with a glider or something).
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x = 16, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
10.2A$10.A$8.A.A$4.2A2.2A$4.2A6$14.2A$14.A$12.A.A$12.2A4$2C$2C3$5.A$
4.3A$3.2A.A!
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.