Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

[b-engine]

Are these the same tagalong?

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x = 7, y = 15, rule = B3678/S23-a678
b2o2b2o$3o2bo$b2o2b2o6$b2o$3o$b2o2b2o$5bo$b2o2b2o$3o$b2o!

Tagalongs for different spaceships, therefore different tagalongs.

EDIT:
The first tagalong is pseudo, the second one is true.

[Resu]

EDIT:
The first tagalong is pseudo, the second one is true.

What's a pseudo-tagalong?

[b-engine]

What's a pseudo-tagalong?

A pseudo-tagalong must modify the spaceship in some way, while a true tagalong doesn't.

[Resu]

A pseudo-tagalong must modify the spaceship in some way, while a true tagalong doesn't.

But all of the interaction is outside the T's bounding box. I don't think it modifies the T at all.

[ThePlayzr]

Can anyone find a still life that works in life, but doesn't work in b34zs23 or b36es23? Also, can someone find one smaller than 19 cells for b34cs23? The 19 cell one is shown below:

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x = 6, y = 9, rule = B34c/S23
3bo$2bobo$2bobo$b2ob2o$o$b2ob2o$2bobo$2bobo$3bo!

[mmmmmmmmm]

Can anyone find a still life that works in life, but doesn't work in b34zs23 or b36es23?

Cis-rotated bookends doesn't work in b34zs23:

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x = 7, y = 5, rule = B34z/S23
4b2o$2o2bo$obobobo$2bo2b2o$b2o!

[rabbit]

Can anyone find a still life that works in life, but doesn't work in b34zs23 or b36es23? Also, can someone find one smaller than 19 cells for b34cs23? The 19 cell one is shown below:

It's not too hard to get rlifesrc to find them, by manually constructing an RLE. It's probably faster to use LLS but I don't have it set up right now and the searches are short. All listed results are minimal in terms of cell count.

There are 16 14-cell still lifes containing a B4z arrangement:

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#C Results generated from rlifesearch with the following string on a 15x15 board:
#C 15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$6?b2o6?$6?3b6?$6?2ob6?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?!
x = 42, y = 33, rule = B34z/S23
4b2o7b2o4b2obo5b2o10b2o$4b2o7b2o3bo2b2o4bob3o5b2o2bo$18b2o6bo5bo3bob3o
$ob3obo4b3obo4b2obo3b3obo3bo$2obob2o2bo2bob2o4bob2o5b2o5b3o$9b2o27bo3$
2b2o7b2o8b2o4b2o7b2o$2bo2bo4bo2bo5bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo$3b3o5b3o5b3o6b3o5b
3o2$b3o5b3o5b3o6b3o5b3o$o2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo5bo2bo4bo2bo$2o6b2o6b2o8b2o6b
2o3$4b2o8b2o5b2o5b2o4b2o$3bo2bo5bo2bo5b2o4bo2bo3bo2bo$3b3o6b3o13b3o4b
3o$19b3obo$b3o6b3o7bob2o2b3o4b3o$o2bo5bo2bo5bo7bo2bo3bo2bo$b2o7b2o6b2o
8b2o5b2o3$2b2o$bo2bo$2b3o2$3o$o2bo$b2o!

Only one fits into a 6x5 bounding box, it is the third listed in the above pattern. If pseudo-still lifes are included, two snakes can make B4z when placed together.

This 15-cell strict still life is the only of its cell count containing a B6e arrangement:

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#C Results generated from rlifesearch with the following string on a 15x15 board:
#C 15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$6?obo6?$6?2bo6?$6?3o6?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?!
x = 7, y = 7, rule = B36e/S23
2bo$bobo$o2bo$b3obo$4bobo$3bo2bo$4b2o!

This 16-cell strict still life is the only of its cell count containing a B4c arrangement, and was a pain to find buried in snake+snake+blub results:

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#C Results generated from rlifesearch with the following string on a 15x15 board:
#C 15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$6?obo6?$6?3b6?$6?obo6?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?!
x = 7, y = 7, rule = B34c/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o2b2o$3b2obo$3bo$4bobo$5b2o!

EDIT: I already knew that, but I had already checked all 15-cell patterns and snake+snake+4 cells is also 16 cells.

[tommyaweosme]

-snip-
This 16-cell strict still life is the only of its cell count containing a B4c arrangement, and was a pain to find buried in snake+snake+blub results:

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#C Results generated from rlifesearch with the following string on a 15x15 board:
#C 15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$6?obo6?$6?3b6?$6?obo6?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?$15?!
x = 7, y = 7, rule = B34c/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o2b2o$3b2obo$3bo$4bobo$5b2o!

♡i do hope you know you can toggle "Reduce the max cell count when a result is found" at the bottom of the settings tab, so the last found pattern is the smallest out all of them♡

[ThePlayzr]

are there any spaceships that work in b34-as23 and in life apart from the LWSS, MWSS, HWSS, and MWSS on HWSS 6?

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x = 0, y = 0, rule = b34-as23
bo2bo$o$o3bo$4o!

As it turns out, it is explosive.

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x = 0, y = 0, rule = b34-as23
!
[[ RANDOMIZE ]]

[PK22]

are there any spaceships that work in b34-as23 and in life apart from the XWSSs?

If you count flotillas, then yes - e.g xq4_sighgazz791hh1a.

I will run some ikpx2 searches to see if I can find one not based on XWSSes.

EDIT: MWSS on HWSS 7 (xq4_aghgiszza1hh197) also works, as do many other flotilla based on interactions of belly sparks. You can create larger flotillas by having alternating interacting MWSSes and HWSSes.

Also, ikpx2 is non-cooperative - it just gets stuck before actually doing any searching for the rule, maybe because it's explosive?

[ThePlayzr]

What about in b35-as23? Are there any except for XWSSs and flotillae?

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x = 0, y = 0, rule = b35-as23
!
[[ RANDOMIZE ]]

This isn't explosive, so ikpx2 should be responsive.

[Resu]

What about in b35-as23? Are there any except for XWSSs and flotillae?

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x = 0, y = 0, rule = b35-as23
!
[[ RANDOMIZE ]]

This isn't explosive, so ikpx2 should be responsive.

Yes, the sidecar:

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x = 8, y = 10, rule = B35-a/S23
bo$o5bo$o5bo$5obo2$4b2o$2bo4bo$bo$bo5bo$b6o!

[pifricted]

What about in b35-as23? Are there any except for XWSSs and flotillae?

Seems many of them work.

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x = 24, y = 7, rule = B35-a/S23
3o6b3o7b3o$o2bo5bo2bo6bo2bo$o8bo9bo$o8bo3bo5bo3bo$bobo5bo9bo3bo$10bob
o6bo$20bobo!

B5-a breaks some flotillas, like xq4_27duee6ze98885(MWSS on HWSS 11):

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x = 9, y = 7, rule = B35-a/S23
3o4bo$o2bo2b3o$o4b2obo$o3b4o$o4b3o$bobob3o$6b2o!

[PK22]

According to the wiki, no spaceships work in both Life and Grounded Life (B35/S23), so for a spaceship to work in Life and B35-a/S23, it would need to work in Life but fail in Grounded Life due to B5a exclusively. It has yet to be proven that no spaceship works in both, but it has been proven for specific speeds.

ikpx2 does seem to work for the new rule you suggested, and I ran a c/2o search since ikpx2 is excellent at finding lots of small c/2o spaceships. Here's an example, but I probably didn't find any which work in Life.

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x = 15, y = 32, rule = B35-a/S23
7bo$5b2ob2o$4bo2bo2bo$4bobobobo$7bo$5bo3bo$5bobobo3$2b3o5b3o$b2ob
2o3b2ob2o$2o3b2ob2o3b2o$b2ob2o3b2ob2o$b5o3b5o2$2bobo5bobo2$2b3o5b
3o2$3bo7bo$4bo5bo$3bobo3bobo$3bobo3bobo2$3b3o3b3o2$4bo5bo$3bo7bo$
2bobo5bobo$2bobo5bobo2$2b3o5b3o!

Strange that no-one has investigated B35-a/S23 before on Catagolue.

What might be helpful for questions like these (and for a hypothetical automatic rulegolfing supercomputer) would be a database that keeps track of spaceships in INT rules as well as their entire working rulespace. Sure, Catagolue does allow this to an extent, but it is harder to find a spaceship that works in a specific rule if searches haven't been run. For the rulegolfing supercomputer, this means that it saves a lot of time since it won't have to run as many spaceship searches - it can check for saved spaceships which work in the current working rule, and use a similar process for oscillators and infinite growth patterns.

[Resu]

According to the wiki, no spaceships work in both Life and Grounded Life (B35/S23), so for a spaceship to work in Life and B35-a/S23, it would need to work in Life but fail in Grounded Life due to B5a exclusively. It has yet to be proven that no spaceship works in both, but it has been proven for specific speeds.

ikpx2 does seem to work for the new rule you suggested, and I ran a c/2o search since ikpx2 is excellent at finding lots of small c/2o spaceships. Here's an example, but I probably didn't find any which work in Life.

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 32, rule = B35-a/S23
7bo$5b2ob2o$4bo2bo2bo$4bobobobo$7bo$5bo3bo$5bobobo3$2b3o5b3o$b2ob
2o3b2ob2o$2o3b2ob2o3b2o$b2ob2o3b2ob2o$b5o3b5o2$2bobo5bobo2$2b3o5b
3o2$3bo7bo$4bo5bo$3bobo3bobo$3bobo3bobo2$3b3o3b3o2$4bo5bo$3bo7bo$
2bobo5bobo$2bobo5bobo2$2b3o5b3o!

Strange that no-one has investigated B35-a/S23 before on Catagolue.

This works:

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x = 8, y = 10, rule = B35-a/S23
bo$o5bo$o5bo$5obo2$4b2o$2bo4bo$bo$bo5bo$b6o!

[ThePlayzr]

This works:

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x = 8, y = 10, rule = B35-a/S23
bo$o5bo$o5bo$5obo2$4b2o$2bo4bo$bo$bo5bo$b6o!

Nice! As you have noticed, sidecar works in b35-as23. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to find.

An unrelated question, is there a general thread for B3/S01367 anywhere on the forums?

[PK22]

An unrelated question, is there a general thread for B3/S01367 anywhere on the forums?

Yes, but there have been no posts in 5 years, because outer-totalistic rules are rarely interesting (with the exception of Life and rules similar to Life). Apparently it has a small knightship. Still, it seems fairly interesting for an OT rule, so I will do some searches, but you’ll probably need to find something impressive to justify necroposting if you want to continue with investigating the rule.

[WhiteHawk]

Why do these two loops end up having the same minimum population despite having different numbers of gliders inside? Found while investigating the alien rectifier in B38/S23 to see if there is any way to have smaller-population loops with different numbers of gliders (especially for odd periods which sometimes are higher population than respective life rectifiers).

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x = 55, y = 60, rule = B38/S23
38bo$37bobo$38bo5b2o$44bo$42bobo$26b2o14b2o$27bo$27bobo$28b2o8$14b2o2b
2o$14b2o3bo$19bobo$20b2o2$51b2o$51bobo$9b2o27bo14bo$9b2o26bobo13b2o$37b
obo$38bo2$35b3o$18bo18bo$17bo18bo$17b3o2$16bo$15bobo$2o13bobo26b2o$bo
14bo27b2o$bobo$2b2o2$33b2o$33bobo$35bo3b2o$35b2o2b2o8$25b2o$25bobo$27b
o$11b2o14b2o$10bobo$10bo$9b2o5bo$15bobo$16bo!

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 60, rule = B38/S23
38bo$37bobo$38bo5b2o$44bo$42bobo$26b2o14b2o$27bo$27bobo$28b2o8$14b2o2b
2o$14b2o3bo$19bobo$20b2o2$51b2o$51bobo$9b2o27bo14bo$9b2o26bobo13b2o$37b
obo$38bo3$18bo$17bo$17b3o2$16bo$15bobo$2o13bobo26b2o$bo14bo27b2o$bobo
$2b2o2$33b2o$33bobo$35bo3b2o$35b2o2b2o8$25b2o$25bobo$27bo$11b2o14b2o$
10bobo$10bo$9b2o5bo$15bobo$16bo!

[Resu]

How many Banks-[number] CA are there?

[PK22]

Why do these two loops end up having the same minimum population despite having different numbers of gliders inside?

The collision between a glider and a beehive (which has 6 cells) evolves into an R predecessor with 6 cells (dot spark + W-pentomino) in the oscillators' minimum phases, so the second glider does not affect the minimim population.

[unname4798]

4: Banks-I, Banks-II, Banks-III, Banks-IV, two of them are two-state:

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#R Banks-I
!

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#R Banks-III
!

[WhiteHawk]

Why do these two loops end up having the same minimum population despite having different numbers of gliders inside?

The collision between a glider and a beehive (which has 6 cells) evolves into an R predecessor with 6 cells (dot spark + W-pentomino) in the oscillators' minimum phases, so the second glider does not affect the minimim population.

Thanks. Would this mean there is no point to trying to period-multiply any glider loop by removing gliders?

Also, is there any way to get an odd-period glider loop with a lower population than that provided by either of these forms of example loops?

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x = 443, y = 276, rule = B38/S23History
189.A$188.A.A$189.A5.2A$195.A$193.A.A$177.2A14.2A231.A$178.A246.A.A$178.
A.A245.A5.2A$179.2A251.A$430.A.A$414.2A14.2A$415.A$415.A.A$416.2A3$169.
2A$170.A$170.A.A$171.2A7.A$178.2A$179.2A21.2A202.2A$202.A.A202.A$189.
A14.A202.A.A$188.A.A13.2A202.2A$188.A.A224.A.A$189.A225.2A22.2A$416.A
22.A.A$186.3A237.A14.A$188.A236.A.A13.2A$187.A237.A.A$426.A2$423.3A$425.
A$195.2A227.A$195.2A4$432.2A$432.2A$190.2A$190.2A4$427.2A$427.2A25$125.
A$125.A.A$125.2A4$361.A$361.A.A$133.A227.2A$133.2A$132.A.A4$369.2A$370.
2A$369.A38$71.A.A$71.2A$72.A4$308.A$306.2A$79.2A226.2A$78.A.A$80.A4$315.
2A$314.A.A$316.A24$14.2A$14.2A6$9.2A238.2A$9.2A238.2A5$18.A$17.A226.2A
$17.3A224.2A2$16.A$15.A.A$2A13.A.A$.A14.A236.A$.A.A248.A$2.2A21.2A225.
3A$26.2A$25.A7.2A216.A$33.A.A214.A.A$35.A199.2A13.A.A$35.2A199.A14.A$
236.A.A22.A$237.2A22.2A$260.A.A$268.2A$268.A.A$270.A$270.2A$25.2A$25.
A.A$27.A$11.2A14.2A$10.A.A$10.A$9.2A5.A$15.A.A242.2A$16.A243.A.A$262.
A$246.2A14.2A$245.A.A$245.A$244.2A5.A$3.3D3.D2.5D7.D3.D221.A.A$2.D3.D
.2D2.D7.D3.D3.D222.A$6.D2.D2.D7.D3.D3.D.D.2D$5.D3.D3.4D.5D2.4D.2D2.D$
4.D4.D6.D3.D7.D.D3.D$3.D5.D2.D3.D3.D7.D.D3.D$2.5D.3D2.3D12.D.D3.D3$240.
3D3.D2.5D7.D3.D$239.D3.D.2D6.D3.D3.D3.D$243.D2.D6.D3.D3.D3.D.D.2D$3.3D
3.3D2.3D4.D3.3D4.3D207.D3.D5.D2.5D2.4D.2D2.D$3.D2.D.D3.D.D2.D2.2D2.D3.
D2.D3.D205.D4.D4.D5.D7.D.D3.D$3.D2.D.D3.D.D2.D3.D6.D6.D204.D5.D4.D5.D
7.D.D3.D$3.3D2.D3.D.3D4.D4.2D5.2D204.5D.3D3.D13.D.D3.D$3.D4.D3.D.D6.D
3.D6.D$3.D5.3D2.D6.D2.5D2.5D3$239.3D3.3D2.3D4.D3.3D4.3D$239.D2.D.D3.D
.D2.D2.2D2.D3.D2.D3.D$239.D2.D.D3.D.D2.D3.D6.D6.D$239.3D2.D3.D.3D4.D4.
2D5.2D$239.D4.D3.D.D6.D3.D6.D$239.D5.3D2.D6.D2.5D2.5D$2.3D3.4D2.5D2.5D
2.4D2.3D$2.D2.D2.D7.D6.D4.D5.D2.D$2.D2.D2.D7.D6.D4.D5.D2.D$2.3D3.4D4.
D6.D4.4D2.3D$2.D2.D2.D7.D6.D4.D5.D2.D$2.D2.D2.D7.D6.D4.D5.D2.D$2.3D3.
4D4.D6.D4.4D2.D2.D$239.D.D.D3.3D3.3D5.3D2.4D$239.D.D.D2.D3.D2.D2.D3.D
5.D$239.D.D.D2.D3.D2.D2.D3.D5.D$2.5D.D2.D3.2D3.D2.D215.D.D.D2.D3.D2.3D
5.2D3.4D$4.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.2D.D215.D.D.D2.D3.D2.D2.D6.D2.D$4.D3.D2.D2.
D2.D2.D.2D215.D.D.D2.D3.D2.D2.D6.D2.D$4.D3.4D2.4D2.D2.D216.D.D4.3D3.D
2.D3.3D3.4D$4.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.D$4.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.D$4.D3.D2.D2.D2.
D2.D2.D$239.5D.D2.D3.2D3.D2.D$241.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.2D.D$241.D3.D2.D2.D2.
D2.D.2D$2.3D3.4D3.3D2.5D2.D2.4D2.D2.4D2.3D193.D3.4D2.4D2.D2.D$2.D2.D2.
D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D192.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.D$2.D2.D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.
D5.D2.D5.D2.D192.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.D$2.3D3.4D2.D7.D4.D2.3D3.D2.4D2.3D
193.D3.D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.D$2.D2.D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$2.D2.D2.D5.
D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$2.D2.D2.4D3.3D4.D4.D2.D5.D2.4D2.D2.D$239.3D3.4D
3.3D2.5D2.D2.4D2.D2.4D2.3D$239.D2.D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$239.D2.
D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$239.3D3.4D2.D7.D4.D2.3D3.D2.4D2.3D$239.D
2.D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$239.D2.D2.D5.D7.D4.D2.D5.D2.D5.D2.D$239.
D2.D2.4D3.3D4.D4.D2.D5.D2.4D2.D2.D!

[PK22]

Thanks. Would this mean there is no point to trying to period-multiply any glider loop by removing gliders?

I think there is a point - removing a glider does affect the period, but not the minimum population, assuming that you only have 2 gliders in the loop, both of which collide with bait beehives simultaneously. This means that it might reveal new SKOPs, if that is what you are trying to build. Also, if you have more than 2 gliders, assuming you are using the same 180 degree reflector, the population will decrease.

[Sokwe]

What is the lowest known period for a spaceship stream in a Life-life CA without B0 or B2? The lowest I know of is the following period-11 stream:

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 5, rule = B3/S35
8bo10bo$b3o2b3o3b3o2b3o3b3o$2o4b2o3b2o4b2o3b2o$b3o2b3o3b3o2b3o3b3o$8bo
10bo!

I'm mildly curious if it might be possible to find a gun by direct search in a B3 rule, similar to the p4/5/6 photon guns in many B2 rules.

[Resu]

Has anybody researched NaiveHighLife (like NaiveLife)?