For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
calcyman
Posts: 2125
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Hooloovoo wrote:
dvgrn wrote:And that doesn't even count the famous Pi-R-Squared spaceship*, where two pi grandparents and two R-pentominos, totaling 20 bits in a 55x34 bounding box, happen to interact in just the right way to reproduce a copy of themselves offset by one cell every 137 ticks. That might also have a 16x16 predecessor, but it's also not a foregone conclusion.

* seen briefly in 1974 on a PDP-12 display by Tony Honcho Jarnow, produced from a 128x80 random soup, just before an unfortunate power outage due to tripping on a power cable.
Exhaustively search all patterns that fix that description? The four objects have 8 degrees of freedom, but there are 2 constraints if you factor out translation, and another 2 constraints if 55-by-34 is the (tight) bounding box.

It's always easier to find something if you're absolutely sure it exists (such as the p6 knightship).
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

77topaz
Posts: 1467
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Macbi wrote:You can tell when dvgrn is messing with you because he uses the number 137.
It's like he's showing off how 1337 he is.

dvgrn
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Posts: 6264
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

Macbi wrote:You can tell when dvgrn is messing with you because he uses the number 137.
A high density of Fibonacci numbers should probably also be treated with suspicion, unless I'm talking about golden-b tilings or some such. 137 is just what they used to think was the inverse of the fine-structure constant, before measurements got precise enough to produce some digits after the decimal point.

The Pi-R-Squared spaceship might actually exist, if only someone could figure out how to (re)discover it. Sometimes it just seems like a good idea to have a specific example of the Unknown Unknowns that might someday be added to an enumeration like this 20-Bitter-Not-Yet-Found-By-Catagolue list.
calcyman wrote:It's always easier to find something if you're absolutely sure it exists (such as the p6 knightship).
Aha! So how did you know? Seems a bit unlikely that A.H. Jarnow also saw Sir Robin going by on that PDP-12 display, back in the seventies.

Majestas32
Posts: 524
Joined: November 20th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Location: 'Merica

### Re: Thread for basic questions

*quickly searches 5s project for c/137 spaceships*

wildmyron
Posts: 1340
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Elsewhere...
I wrote:Does anybody know what the smallest such ships in Life are? And are there examples with period not divisible by 4?
I know there are adjustable period ships made up of a puffer with a trailing xwss (or flotilla thereof) which lights a faster than C/2 fuse that dies out when it catches up to the puffer engine. I would like to know about the smallest examples (in terms of minimum population) and the range of periods which are covered.

I thought this might be detailed on the Life wiki, but I can't find anything about these ships on the pages about adjustable ships.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.

dvgrn
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

wildmyron wrote:Elsewhere...
I wrote:Does anybody know what the smallest such ships in Life are? And are there examples with period not divisible by 4?
I know there are adjustable period ships made up of a puffer with a trailing xwss (or flotilla thereof) which lights a faster than C/2 fuse that dies out when it catches up to the puffer engine. I would like to know about the smallest examples (in terms of minimum population) and the range of periods which are covered.
(The "elsewhere" seems to be the Rules with small adjustable spaceships thread.)

Had a quick look around, and now I don't remember if those puffers ever got cleaned up into rakes or clean spaceships.

There's a series of puffers matching your description from December 2008, which were an improvement on a previous construction from 23 March 2002, which was an improvement on the original from 5 February 2000, all built by David Bell.

I guess these still maybe count as having a fixed minimum population -- the population just after the blinker fuse burns out is always the same, at least if you don't include the longer trail of puffed-out junk. But it sure isn't a simple or compact mechanism, in any case.
dbell wrote:One of the period 8 c/2 blinker puffers from a few years ago is based
on a period 2 spaceship. The phase of the engine at the back can be
changed by 2 generations using a pair of forward gliders.

By repeating the reaction indefinitely using the output of two period
8N+2 rakes, the puffer can become a blinker puffer whose output is
also of period 8n+2. The output consists of runs of N-1 blinkers with
a gap of 6 cells between each run.
...
The 6 cell gap between each run of blinkers can be filled by another
blinker using the painful insertion mechanism I used for my period 378
c/2 puffer. This results in runs of N blinkers with gaps of just two
cells between each run.

Such a blinker trail can be used to create a series of puffers with
arbitrarily large periods which are not a multiple of 4 (e.g., as
shown below).

The advantage of using this new blinker puffer is that now the number
of rakes required to build any series of arbitrarily large period
puffers is fixed. (Previously, as the base periods got higher, more
rakes had to be used to create the extra blinkers for each run.)
...
We can build similar puffer series for periods 26, 42, 50, 58, 66,
etc., but their rakes are all larger than period 42 rakes, and so
the results would be larger. Also, for those periods which are not a
multiple of six, the fuse-stopping period 6 spaceships used above
would need to be replaced by a few more rakes.

Code: Select all

``````#C A period 378 c/2 puffer.
#C This is the first in a series of c/2 puffers having periods which
#C are not a multiple of 4.  A phase-changing blinker puffer and a set
#C of period 42 rakes creates a row of blinkers.
#C Gliders from two more period 42 rakes ignite the blinker row, which
#C burns faster than c/2 until it reaches a pair of period 6 ships.
#C Then the cycle repeats.
#C The next puffer in the series can be created by advancing all of the
#C puffer except the rear rakes and their gliders by 168 generations.
#C Then the resulting puffer has its period increased by 588 generations.
#C The series thus contains periods 378, 966, 1554, and so on.
#C Only 1/7 of the possible non-multiple of 4 periods using period 42
#C rakes are covered by the series.  Adjusting the back rakes to ignite
#C the blinker row in other ways may provide further coverage.
#C This is a smaller version of a similar puffer built in March 2002.
#C David I. Bell, 30 December 2008
x = 303, y = 738
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5boo11boboo6b3obobo7bobob3o10bo5bo16b3o86bo\$53bobo18bobbobo4boo8b3o8b
oo6bobo7bobo101boo\$52booboo16boboboboo10booboboboo12booboboobooboboo
100bobo\$64bo7bobbobo3bobboo3bo4bobo4bo3boo3boobobobbobobbobobo\$63b3ob
oo3bo13bob3o9b3obo6bobo4bobo4boboo10b3o\$62boo3bobooboboobooboo4bo3bobb
o3bobbo3bo3boobobobooboboboobo3bo\$61boobbo4bobo15boboboo3boobobo5boobo
bob3o3b3obo35boo\$62bo5bobo5bo3bo9bobob3obobo7bobo3bobbooboobbo3boo31bo
bo\$61boo7bo5bo3bo8booboboboboboo5boobooboo9boo13b3o19bo\$59booboboo26bo
5bo8bo\$60bobobboo9booboo10boo5boo7b4ob3o\$57boobobbobbo8bo5bo24boo109b
oo\$57boobo5boo7bo5bo5b3o11b3o6b3o26b3o74boo\$57bobo14bob5obo5boo11boo8b
o106bo\$56booboo11boo9boo7bo5bo11bobo33boo\$74bo7bo63boo\$109bo3bo\$109boo
boo25b3o8b3o\$110bobo37bo\$151bo\$\$139b3o65bo\$206boo\$109b3o15b3o21b3o15b
3o34bobo\$108bo3bo13bo3bo19bo3bo13bo3bo\$107boo4bo11bo4boo7b3o7boo4bo11b
o4boo\$91bo14bobobooboo3b3o3boobooboboo13boobobooboo3b3o3booboobobo\$89b
4o12boobo4boboob3oboobo4bobo15bobo4boboob3oboobo4boboo\$88bo3bo11bo4bo
3bo4bobo4bo3bobboboo9boobobbo3bo4bobo4bo3bo4bo\$87bo3boo23bo5bo9boboo3b
3o3boobo9bo5bo\$87bo3bo12boo7boo9boo7bobo9bobo7boo9boo7boo\$86booboboo
39booboo7booboo\$86boobb3o103boo\$87boo34b3obb5ob3obb3obb3ob5obb3o37boo\$
91bo30bo3bob3o19b3obo3bo38bo\$87b4o30bo6bo3b3o11b3o3bo6bo\$87boo32bo3boo
6bo13bo6boo3bo\$123bo8bobo11bobo8bo\$120bobo16b3o16bobo\$119boobob3o4bo3b
o9bo3bo4b3oboboo\$118bobobo3bo4booboo9booboo4bo3bobobo\$117boobo11bobo
11bobo11boboo\$94bo21bo3bo5boo11b3o11boo5bo3bo21bo\$94boo89boo\$93bobo20b
ooboo39booboo20bobo\$\$139b3o4\$139b3o3\$104boo69boo\$105boo32b3o32boo\$104b
o71bo4\$139b3o4\$115bo23b3o23bo\$115boo47boo\$114bobo47bobo\$\$139b3o4\$139b
3o3\$125boo27boo\$126boo11b3o11boo\$125bo29bo4\$139b3o4\$136bobb3obbo\$136b
oo5boo\$135bobo5bobo!``````
wildmyron wrote:I thought this might be detailed on the Life wiki, but I can't find anything about these ships on the pages about adjustable ships.
Horrors, another piece of strange and wonderful technology not yet represented in the wiki. Maybe the above will be a step in the right direction.

Apple Bottom
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

dvgrn wrote:
wildmyron wrote:I thought this might be detailed on the Life wiki, but I can't find anything about these ships on the pages about adjustable ships.
Horrors, another piece of strange and wonderful technology not yet represented in the wiki. Maybe the above will be a step in the right direction.
Well, it's testament to the quality of the LifeWiki these days that people are genuinely surprised if they can't find the information they need on there!

But of course it's all an ongoing effort. @wildmyron -- can you add the missing information?
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

wildmyron
Posts: 1340
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

### Re: Thread for basic questions

@dvgrn: thank you, that's great to see non divisible by 4 adjustable period options. I guess they'll all be large because any xwss will automatically give a period of 4N.

Can't commit to wiki editing, but I suppose I should get myself an account there...
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.

dani
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Location: New Jersey, USA
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

Apologies if this has been asked, but why are a lot of interesting objects in CA symmetric? I theorize it is because it takes less cells to specify a symmetric object, but if you have a symmetric object cells are more likely to survive and be born and the object won't completely die out. I assume this is why Knightships are less common too, but if there are any other theories, please let me know.
moose#0915

77topaz
Posts: 1467
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

danny wrote:Apologies if this has been asked, but why are a lot of interesting objects in CA symmetric? I theorize it is because it takes less cells to specify a symmetric object, but if you have a symmetric object cells are more likely to survive and be born and the object won't completely die out. I assume this is why Knightships are less common too, but if there are any other theories, please let me know.
Yeah, the fact that a symmetric object takes fewer cells to specify also means that searching symmetric objects is faster than asymmetric objects at a given size, which means that search algorithms looking for a certain property are likely to find symmetric solutions earlier than asymmetric ones.

wwei23
Posts: 949
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Find a still life that can push a beehive 1 cell away from it orthogonally.

AforAmpere
Posts: 1073
Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Is knightt able to rule out ships at certain widths? I ran 3c/8 at width 12 asymmetric, and it did not produce any ships, but the search did output this as a final partial.

Code: Select all

``````x = 12, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
9bo\$8bobo\$7bo3bo\$7b3obo\$5b3o\$5b2o\$5bob2o\$8bo\$3bo4bo\$2b3o2\$3b2o\$3bobo\$
3bo\$5b4o\$bob2o2bobo\$bo5bobo\$bo\$7b3o\$3bo3bo2bo\$3bobobo\$3b2o3b2o\$2b2o3b
3o\$2bobo\$3b2obo\$3b4o3bo\$5obo3bo\$2b3obo3bo!
``````
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)

Macbi
Posts: 713
Joined: March 29th, 2009, 4:58 am

### Re: Thread for basic questions

What exactly do people mean when they say a conduit can be "overclocked"?

calcyman
Posts: 2125
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Macbi wrote:What exactly do people mean when they say a conduit can be "overclocked"?
It means that it can accept two signals separated by less than the repeat time.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

dvgrn
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

calcyman wrote:
Macbi wrote:What exactly do people mean when they say a conduit can be "overclocked"?
It means that it can accept two signals separated by less than the repeat time.
I added a little more detail about this under overclocking to the latest Life Lexicon. There are actually two distinct ways "overclocking" is used.

In some cases, like the syringe or the semi-cenarks, there are a few periods where the mechanism works, and then a few periods where it doesn't work, usually because of something like a temporary spark that has to get out of the way. And then the mechanism is safe to use any time after the official repeat time. With this more recent usage, "overclocking" doesn't add any extra restrictions to the use of the mechanism, it just means that it's not guaranteed to work for all higher periods.

The old sense of "overclocking" is a slightly trickier concept. A Silver reflector, for example, has a repeat time of 497, but it can reflect p250 streams perfectly well (and nearby periods).

However, at p250, the reset glider generated by a given signal input actually cleans up after the _following_ signal -- and that means that once you start reflecting a p250 stream, you can't stop! Any missing signal will make the whole circuit fail. This "dangerous" use of a circuit is the older meaning of overclocking.

As an aside, it might have been possible to invent single-channel construction technology well before the syringe came along, as far back as 1998 if only someone had thought of doing the searches. There might possibly be enough adjustability in the signal timings of overclocked Silver reflectors, to allow for a universal elbow operation toolkit. That would be an interesting line of steampunk-Life research.

-- Of course, as soon as you finished a construction recipe, your construction arm mechanism would explode -- but that's actually okay in some cases. For something like a Demonoid, that would be a perfectly good way to start a self-destruct sequence. There's a startup problem equivalent to the shutdown problem but it's easily solved by adding a boat on the first glider output.

AforAmpere
Posts: 1073
Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Can this CA be shown to not have C/2 as a possibility? It seems that every speed less than but not equal to C/2 is possible, while C/2 is not, this is a 2c/5:

Code: Select all

``````x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2-ai3cnqr4ijntw5er6i/S0123ej4ity5jkq6k
2bo\$obo\$bobo2\$bo!
``````
Found while testing JustFriends relatives for this kind of behavior.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)

dani
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Location: New Jersey, USA
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

Is a rake that periodically fires pseudorandom gliders possible?
moose#0915

Saka
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Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: Thread for basic questions

JonWalter wrote:Hello all !
I’ve been learning python for a while and I was looking for some projects to try out. What do I need to know to create Conway’s Game of Life and how would I get started? Thanks.
For starters try to make a program that creates a 10×10 array (grid) that simulates Life and outputs a new generation by printing the grid again.
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

``````x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o\$11b4obo\$2bob3o2bo2b3o\$bo3b2o4b2o\$o2bo2bob2o3b4o\$bob2obo5b
o2b2o\$2b2o4bobo2b3o\$bo3b5ob2obobo\$2bo5bob2o\$4bob2o2bobobo!
``````
(Check gen 2)

wwei23
Posts: 949
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: Thread for basic questions

Saka wrote:
JonWalter wrote:Hello all !
I’ve been learning python for a while and I was looking for some projects to try out. What do I need to know to create Conway’s Game of Life and how would I get started? Thanks.
For starters try to make a program that creates a 10×10 array (grid) that simulates Life and outputs a new generation by printing the grid again.
Then make a program that can simulate Life in an infinite grid.

dvgrn
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

wwei23 wrote:
Saka wrote:For starters try to make a program that creates a 10×10 array (grid) that simulates Life and outputs a new generation by printing the grid again.
Then make a program that can simulate Life in an infinite grid.
Some slightly more specific suggestions can be found in responses to previous similar questions.

wwei23
Posts: 949
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
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### Re: Thread for basic questions

Hat:

Code: Select all

``````x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2bo\$bobo\$bobo\$2ob2o!
``````
Sesquihat:

Code: Select all

``````x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo\$bobob2o\$bobobo\$2obobo\$4bo!
``````
Twin hat:

Code: Select all

``````x = 9, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo3bo\$bobobobo\$bobobobo\$2obobob2o\$4bo!
``````
???

Code: Select all

``````x = 11, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo3bo\$bobobobob2o\$bobobobobo\$2obobobobo\$4bo3bo!
``````

cordership3
Posts: 128
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 8:53 am
Location: haha long boy

### Re: Thread for basic questions

What are the criteria for a higher-symmetry haul to be marked blue on catagolue (committed=6)?
fg

calcyman
Posts: 2125
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

cordership3 wrote:What are the criteria for a higher-symmetry haul to be marked blue on catagolue (committed=6)?
That someone has called /attribute to determine the first discoverers of an object, and that haul is one of those 'touched' in the process. It marks the haul as being immune to automatic deletion.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

77topaz
Posts: 1467
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

calcyman wrote:
cordership3 wrote:What are the criteria for a higher-symmetry haul to be marked blue on catagolue (committed=6)?
That someone has called /attribute to determine the first discoverers of an object, and that haul is one of those 'touched' in the process. It marks the haul as being immune to automatic deletion.
How does the attribute function determine when to show hauls for rules other than b3s23, then? Because, I've only seen a blue haul once in another rule, in B2e3ceik4e/S1c2-ai3-ai45ay.

calcyman
Posts: 2125
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

### Re: Thread for basic questions

77topaz wrote:How does the attribute function determine when to show hauls for rules other than b3s23, then? Because, I've only seen a blue haul once in another rule, in B2e3ceik4e/S1c2-ai3-ai45ay.
The very act of asking who found an object is sufficient to make the first few hauls, if they haven't already been deleted, permanent. You're correct that there is no automatic process for attributing non-b3s23 hauls.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!