Page 3 of 58
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 4:58 am
by Kazyan
Right, just checking that with the experts since I wasn't sure. I'll be investigating Pi catalysts for Extrementhusiast's idea soon.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 3:44 pm
by dvgrn
Sokwe wrote:It might be possible to get something out of this transparent block reaction...
I didn't find anything better than the H-to-G below, but haven't hunted very long yet. Almost everything seems to be a minor variant of this block catalyst, which leaves some junk and an awkward last-minute glider:
Code: Select all
x = 49, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
6.16B2C.2C$4.18B.C.2C$2.13B2A3B3.C$2.11BA2BA3B2.2C$.10B.7B2.4D$2.9B.A
6B$.10B.A7B$10B3.ABA3BA$3B8.3B2A5B$2B11.2B2A4BAB$B9.2B.3B2A3B3A$D9.2B
.2B2A4BAB$D12.B2A5B27.B$11.2BABA3BAB26.2B$13.2A6B25.3B$14.A2B2A3B.2A
20.4B$14.B3A5B2AB18.4B$14.2BA9B17.4B$14.12B16.4B$15.11B15.4B$18.7B15.
4B$17.8B14.4B$13.A.10B13.4B$5.D5.4BA2BA8B4.3B3.4B$5.CA2.2A4B5A7B2A2.
9B$5.CA2.A3BA4B2A2B2A3BABA.8B$5.D3.ABA3B3ABA2B2A5B2A7B$10.2A4BA5B2A2B
4A.6B$14.2B2.5BABA2B3.6B$19.3B2A3BA3.6B$22.B3A!
Sokwe wrote:Edit: This B->G works, but that's fairly boring...
Any time you can get a new transparent object to work, I'd say it's not
too boring -- even transparent blocks are fairly rare. It's true that this particular converter is equivalent to an R64 plus a H-to-G#1, so it's an output lane and timing that we had already.
Probably it's going to be a good idea to build an H-to-G database that includes composite outputs along these lines, so that a script can be written to answer questions like: "I have a Herschel at (0,0,0), and I want a [NE|NW|SW|SE] glider to appear at (X,Y,T) -- is there a known way to do this?" For large enough spacetime offsets, the answer is always "yes", but the interesting answers are the "yes" answers for smaller X/Y/T. It's nice when you can occasionally solve a layout problem with some nice compact circuitry.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 9:33 pm
by Extrementhusiast
Well, here's a rather interesting partial B-to-B, which requires a glider to reset it:
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
14bo$13bo$13b3o16$b2o4b2o$b2o4bobo$8bo2$2bo$b3o11bo$2o2bo10b2o$16bo$
16bo$15bo!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 9:41 pm
by unname66609
Extrementhusiast wrote:Well, here's a rather interesting partial B-to-B, which requires a glider to reset it:
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
14bo$13bo$13b3o16$b2o4b2o$b2o4bobo$8bo2$2bo$b3o11bo$2o2bo10b2o$16bo$
16bo$15bo!
Here is period 244 oscillator:
Code: Select all
x = 307, y = 307, rule = B3/S23
146b2obo$146bob2o25bo$173b3o$147b5o20bo$146bo4bo20b2o22b2obobo$145bo2b
o47b2ob2obo$142bo2bob2o43bo9b3o$141bobobo5bo38b3o3b5o4bo$142bo2bo4bobo
36bo5bo4b6o$145b2o2bo2bo13b3o7b2o11b2o4bob3o$150b2o16bo7b2o18bo2bo2b2o
$142b2o23bo29b4o3bo$141bobo2b2o9bo41bo3b2o$141bobobobo8b2obobo$140b2ob
o2bo8b2o2b3o49b2o$139bo3bo2b2o8bo2bobo49bo$140bobo3b2o9b2o3b2o45bobo$
139b2obo2b3o10b3ob2o45b2o$142bobo14b2o$139b2obobo19b2o$139b2obo2bo18bo
$143b2o20b3o$167bo$189b2o$189b2o$164bo10b2o$162b3o9bobo$161bo12bo$161b
2o10b2o$153b2o$153b2o6$170b2o$170bo41b2o$168bobo41bobo$168b2o44bo$214b
2o7$204b2o$172b2o30b2o$172bobo$174bo20b2obo$174b2o19bob2o$164b2o$164b
2o$145bob2o56b2o$145b2obo55bo2bo6b2o$204bo8bobo$154b2o47bo3bo5bo$154b
2o46bo4bo4b2o$204bobo$206b2o$206b2o$193b2o9bob2ob2o$194bo10bobo$194bob
o9bo$164b2o29b2o15b2o$164bo47b2o$162bobo$161b3o$147bo11b3o33b2o$147b3o
10b2o32bobo$150bo8bo34bo$149b2o42b2o4$148b2o31b2o$148b2o31bo14b2o$179b
obo14b2o13b2o$179b2o30bo$212b3o$149b3o62bo$152bo$142b2o67b2o$142b2o5b
2o59bo2bob2o$150b2o3b2o54bobob2o$150b2o4b2o39bo13bobo$149bo2b5o40b2o9b
3o2bob2o$149b7o39bob2o9b2o3bobo$150bo44b3o10b2o2bo3bo$84b2obobo53b2o6b
o43bobo11bo2bob2o$40bo14b2o27b2ob2obo52b2o63bobobobo$38b3o14bo24b2o8b
3o115b2o2bobo$37bo18b3o6b2o13bo3b5o4bo118b2o$14bo22b2o19bo6b2o11bobo2b
o4b6o55b2o27b2o$14b3o61b2o3bob2o62b2o14b2o11b2o$17bo66b2obob3o74bo$16b
2o27b2o39bo5bo70b3o37b2o$35b2o2bobo3bobob3o35bo3b2o70bo39bo$34b3obo3bo
2bobo40bo115b3o$33b2o6bo3b3o51b2o105bo$7b2o25bob5o3bo3bo50bo$6bobo2b2o
22b4o4bo4bo48bobo$6bobobobo24bo6bo3bo48b2o$5b2obo2bo33bo$4bo3bo$5bobo
3b2o$4b2obobo2bo$7bobo40b2o$4b2obobobo39bo25b2o$4b2obo2bo39bo13b2o3b2o
6b2o$8b2o40b2o13bo3bo$62b3o5b3o$62bo9bo$6b2o$7bo$7bobo13b2o$8b2o13b2o
5$159bo$158bo$76bo81b3o$76b3o$79bo$78b2o9b3obobo$89b3o3bo$9b2o76b2o$9b
2o14b2o60bo3b3o$b2o22bo25bo35bo3bo$2bo23b3o20b3o36bo2bo$2bobo23bo19bo
40bo2bo$3b2o43b2o42bo$36bo55bo$36b3o52b3o$39bo51b3o$38b2o51bo2bo$21b2o
69bo193b2obobo$21bo74bo49b2o4b2o132b2ob2obo$19bobo30b2o11bo28b2obo48b
2o4bobo137b3o4bo$19b2o4b2o25b2o11b3o29bo55bo68b2o62b5o4bo2bobo$26bo41b
o28b2o116b2o5b2o61bo5b5o3bo$26bobo38b2o14bo63bo67b2o68bob3o$27b2o53bo
63b3o102b2o33bo6bo3b5o$82b3o60b2o2bo15b2o84bo35bo2bobobo2bo4bo2b2o$
165b2o50b2o17b2o14bo36b2o2b2o5bo2bo2bo$217b2o17bo14b2o47b2obobo$35bo
175b2o21bobo60bo5bob2o$33b2o4bo104bo66b2o21b2o60bobo4bo$33bo5b2o16b2o
188bo48bo2bo2b2o$28b2o2b3o5b2o15b2o82bo9b2o12b2o79bo2bo47b2o$24bo3b2o
10bo99bobo8b2o11bobo79bo29b2o$8b2o13bo8bo2b2o2bo100b2o4b2o3bo13bo83bo
26b2o$3b2o2bo2bo13b2o6bo205b3o6b2o$3bo4bobo14bo7bobo35b2o21b2o50b2o2bo
87bo6bob2obo$2obo5bo24bo35bobo21b2o142bobo7bob2o$bobob2o9bo37b2o14bo
17b2o149b2o3bo2b3ob2o$o2bo2bo5b2o3bo36bo14b2o17b2o155bo4bo$2o2bo4bo2bo
5bo36bo86b2o$5b5o3b3obob2o33b2o82bo3b2o134b2o$18b2obo68b2o47b2o97b2o
38bobo$7bo3b6o4bo61b2o5b2o46b2o68b2o28bo41bo$6bobo2bo4b5o62b2o68bo55bo
29b3o11b2o25b2o4b2o$7bo4b3o137bobo4b2o48bobo29bo11b2o30bobo$14bob2ob2o
132b2o4b2o49b2o73bo$15bobob2o263b2o$267b2o$267bo$268b3o$270bo$257b2o
43b2o$198bo59bo19bo23bobo$197b2o56b3o20b3o23bo$197bobo55bo25bo22b2o$
280b2o13bo$294b3o$211b2o73b3o7bo$211b2o14b2o57bo2bo$227bo58bo2bo$228b
3o56bobo$230bo7$282b2o13b2o$282b2o13bobo$219b2o78bo$219b2o78b2o$234bo
9bo$234b3o5b3o$237bo3bo13b2o26bo13b2o$228b2o6b2o3b2o13bo26bobo10bo2bob
2o$228b2o25bo27b2o11b2obob2o$255b2o20b2o16bobobo$211b2o64b2o15bobo2bob
2o$211b2o80bo4b2obo$216b2o69b2o7bobo3bo$216b2o69b2o7bobob2o$208b2o17bo
bo64bobobobo$207bobo16bo2bo28b2o34b2o2bobo$207bo19bo2bob2o24b2o38b2o$
100bo105b2o22bo2bo51b2o$100b3o128b2o52b2o$103bo39bo70b2o2b2o11b2o$102b
2o37b3o70bobobo2bo67b2o$140bo74bo6bo66bo$127b2o11b2o14b2o61b3obo3b2o
61b3o$116b2o9b2o27b2o55b5o5bo2bobo11b2o6bo19b2o22bo$93b2o20bobo95bo4b
5o3bo13b2o6b3o18bo$92bobo2b2o12b2o4bo96b3o8b2o24bo14b3o$92bobobobo11bo
bo49b2o52bob2ob2o27b2o14bo$91b2obobo12b2obo49b2o53bobob2o$90bo3bo15b2o
bo44b2o$91bob2o2bo13b3o44b2o$90b2obob4o$93bobobo$90b2obobobo$90b2obo2b
o66b2o$94b2o67b2o2$92bo$92b3o$95bo30b2o$94b2o13b2o14bobo$109b2o14bo$
124b2o4$112b2o42b2o$112bo43bo$110bobo44b3o$110b2o47bo$143b2o$142bobo$
93b2o47bo$93b2o15b2o29b2o$110bobo$112bo$112b2o4$93b2o56b2o$93bo57b2o$
91bobo$91b2o65bob2o$158b2obo$141b2o$141b2o$108b2obo19b2o12b2o$108bob2o
20bo$132bobo16bo$101b2o30b2o6b3o7bo4b2o$101b2o37bo3bo5b2o3bo2bo$139bo
5bo9bo3bo$139bo6b3o5b2o3bo$139bo6b2o6bo3bo$140bo3bob3o7bob2obo$141b3o
3bobo3bo2bob2ob2o$147b2o4bo4b2obo$91b2o54bobo3b2o5bo$92bo44b2o8b3o6b4o
$92bobo41bobo9b2o8bo$93b2o41bo$135b2o3$148bo$147bo$147b3o$152b2o$107b
2o43b2o$107b2o23b2o10b2o$132bo12bo$130bobo9b3o$130b2o10bo$116b2o$116b
2o$139bo$99b2o38b3o20b2o$99b2o5b4o32bo18bo2bob2o$106bo2b2o30b2o17bobob
ob2o$107bo2b2o48bobobo$96b2o9bo2bo48b4obob2o$95bobo10b2o50bo2b2obo$95b
o67bo3bo$94b2o65bobob2o$159bobobobo$102b2ob3o51b2o2bobo$102bob4o55b2o$
103bo3bo2bo18b2o24b2o$108b2obo4b2o11b2o23bo2bo2b2o$101b5o5bo5bo36bobo
4bo2bo$101bo4b5o3b3o38bo5bobobo$102b3o9bo43b2obo2bo$104bob2ob2o47bo2bo
$105bobob2o22b2o20bo4bo$134bo20b5o$131b3o$131bo25b2obo$157bob2o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:51 pm
by Kazyan
Extrementhusiast wrote:Well, here's a rather interesting partial B-to-B, which requires a glider to reset it:
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
14bo$13bo$13b3o16$b2o4b2o$b2o4bobo$8bo2$2bo$b3o11bo$2o2bo10b2o$16bo$
16bo$15bo!
There's likely a compact way to hook that up to one of the more complicated B-to-H subcomponents, and point an escaping glider back via Snark. Might be small enough to use for something.
No word on the Pi-in-Bellman front yet. The search is currently exploring what it can do after placing a block like so:
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o4b2o$2bo4b2o$3o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 11:39 pm
by dvgrn
Kazyan wrote:There's likely a compact way to hook that up to one of the more complicated B-to-H subcomponents, and point an escaping glider back via Snark. Might be small enough to use for something.
Don't let me discourage anyone, but every one of the obvious immediate glider outputs that I tried -- R64, Fx77, F166 (i.e., changing to a dependent-conduit output glider), etc. -- need a color-changing Snark. And the second natural glider from L112 and L156 doesn't happen to line up, and I don't think there's an H-to-G that can make that adjustment. Using a H-to-G kind of defeats the purpose of making a new conduit, anyway.
It's much easier at p4/5/6/7/8 (and even then it gets big and slow pretty fast):
Code: Select all
x = 169, y = 59, rule = LifeHistory
119.A2$117.A.3A$29.A89.2A.A8.A$28.3A88.A.2A6.3A$27.3A.A88.3A.A3.A$28.
A3.A8.A86.2A$29.A3.A5.3A80.A$30.A.3A3.A87.A$31.3A4.2A85.A.A$2A30.A93.
2A2.2A$2A.A32.A93.2A$4.A8.A21.A.A$.A9.3A22.2A2.2A$2.A.2A4.A29.2A$4.2A
4.2A2$8.A$7.A.A$8.2A2.2A$12.2A4$156.2A$156.2A5.2A$163.2A$127.2A$128.A
$127.A33.2A$127.2A32.2A$3.2C4.2A101.2C4.2A47.2A$3.2C4.A.A100.2C4.A.A
46.2A$10.A108.A$42.A$4.A35.3A70.A$3.3A33.A72.3A15.2A$2.2A2.A20.D11.2A
70.2A2.A14.2A$25.3D$25.D.D$25.D3$67.D$65.3D72.2A$48.2A15.D.D73.A$48.
2A15.D72.3A18.3D$25.2A49.A61.A20.D$24.A.A48.A.A80.3D$24.A50.A.A$23.2A
10.2A39.A$36.A$33.3A9.2A$33.A11.A$46.A$45.2A$163.2A$162.A2.A$163.2A!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 10th, 2015, 12:05 am
by Kazyan
I don't think this catalyst is quite compatible with the nearby eater...but I really wish it was. If nothing else, it should be kept in mind if a similar spark ever appears.
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 11, rule = LifeBellman
13E$13E$10E2C$9E3.C$4E2C5.2C$4EC.2C$3E3.C.C$3E2C2.2C7.2A$3EC11.2A$4E
12.2A$5E12.A!
Closeup of the catalyst doing its thing:
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2b2obo$2bob2o2bo$6b3o$o2b2o$4ob2o$5bobo2b2o$2b2o2b2o2b2o$2bo6b2o$obo7b
o$2o!
EDIT: It can also handle certain formations of preblock via a slightly different mechanism.
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2b2obo$2bob2o2bo$6b3o$o2b2o$4ob2o$5bobo2bo$2b2o2b2o2bo$2bo6b4o$obo7bo$
2o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 10th, 2015, 11:23 am
by praosylen
An H-to-wing converter:
Code: Select all
x = 56, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory
9.2C$8.C.C$8.C$3.C.2C.2C2.2B3.C$3.2C.C.7B.C.C$6.C3.6B.C$6.2C2.6B10.2C
$4.2C4.6B10.C$5.C4.6B7.BC.C$5.C.CB.6B3.3B.B2C$6.2CB.14B$8.16B$9.14B$
8.16B$8.18B$6.22B$6.19BC2B$5.13B.4BCBC3B$5.12B2.4B3C2B$2.3D12B2.4BC5B
$.D2BD13B2.10B$BDBD14B9.4B$.BD16B9.4B$3.16B10.4B$5.4B.10B10.4B$6.15B
10.4B$6.15B11.4B$5.16B12.4B$4.17B13.4B$4.16B15.4B$5.11B20.4B$7.5B.3B
21.4B$9.B3.5B20.4B$8.3B4.B2C21.4B$7.B2CB5.C23.4B$8.2C7.3C21.4B$19.C
22.4B$43.4B$44.4B$45.4B$46.4B$47.4B$48.4B$49.4B$50.4B$51.4B$52.BDBD$
53.B2D$54.D!
Unfortunately, the wing may be too close to the compound catalyst to do anything with; I have tried to manually place catalysts to get the reaction away from there, with no success.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 10th, 2015, 12:31 pm
by dvgrn
kiho park wrote:It convert a Herschel to Herschel and R-Pentomino...
Edit : 1H to 2H
Code: Select all
x = 136, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
55.2A$54.B2AB$54.3B$55.B$53.5B$53.B3D2B$53.2BD3B$53.2B3DB$53.6B$53.6B
$53.6B$53.5B$52.6B$53.6B$52.7B$52.6B$52.6B$52.6B$51.8B$52.8B$51.9B$
51.9B$51.10B$51.5B2A3B9.2A10.B$51.5B2A4B9.A8.5B$51.11B9.A.AB4.6B$51.
4BD7BA.A6.2AB.B2.6B$53.B3D4B2.2A.A7.13B$39.A13.D2B2D2B6.A8.12B$39.3A
11.5B8.2A5.14B$42.A10.5B9.2B3.16B$30.2A9.2A9.6B8.6B.15B4.3B$31.A5.3B.
5B.3B2.8B6.22B.7B$31.A.AB.4B3.20B2.22B.B2A5B$32.2AB.27B2.23BA2BA5B$
34.55B2A6B$34.62B$34.51B.6B.2B$34.46B.2B2.8B.B$17.2B13.47B7.6B.B2A$
17.3B12.43B15.B3.A.A$17.4B10.2A13B2.9B.B3.B3.10B19.2A$18.4B9.2AB.12B
2.7B11.9B$19.4B9.B.13B.9B8.11B$7.2A3.2A6.4B11.11B3.7B9.2A3.2B3D2B$6.B
2AB.B2AB6.4B10.10B4.7B10.A3.2BD4B$7.2B2.3B3.B4.4B8.11B3.9B6.3A4.B3D4B
.2B$8.3B.3B.4B3.4B6.11B5.7B7.A6.12B$2A5.7B.13B4.13B6.3B16.14B$.A5.23B
.16B4.5B14.15B23.2A$.A.AB.19B.8B.4B2A7B6.2A15.14B24.A$2.2AB.33B2A7B6.
A19.11B23.A$4.45B6.3A15.13B2.2B18.2A$4.33BD12B7.A14.19B8.2A8.B$4.33B
2D10B21.B.21B6.A.A7.3B$5.33B2D7B19.2A.2A22B7.AB6.6B$7.31BD10B18.A.A.B
.21B5.2B3.B2.10B$5.32BD12B15.A.A.A.A23B.B2.19B3.2B2.6B$5.2A3.26B3.12B
14.2A3.2A.B.19B.12BD3B2A15BD3B$6.A3.20B4.B6.10B23.33B2D2B2A15BDBDB.2B
$3.3A6.15B7.2A7.7B24.21B2D11B2D18B3D3B2A$3.A8.11B12.A9.2B2.BA22.23B2D
10BD21BDB.B2A$11.13B10.A14.A.A19.A24BD10BD24B2.B$10.15B9.2A14.2A17.3A
2.7B.17B.4B5.13B.B$10.16B42.A5.7B3.7B.12B5.7B.B$10.17B41.2A4.7B4.5B4.
8B$10.16B48.5B6.4B5.6B$12.14B46.2AB.2B7.4B6.4B$11.4B.2B2A6B45.A.AB10.
B2AB$10.4B2.2B2A6B45.A14.2A$9.4B2.11B44.2A$8.4B4.2B3D4B$7.4B5.3BD4B$
6.4B7.2B3D2B$6.3B8.7B!
Not quite workable in its current form, is it? There are two failures, one with the first snake which just barely gets hit by a fading spark at T=257, and one where an output glider at T=264 gets caught in a way that shuts off the input circuit at T=387.
Not sure if these are repairable or not, but it might be a good problem to turn Bellman loose on. I'd still like to see some non-Herschel-receiver way to drop an R-pentomino successfully into that troublesome conduit. Once you get a chain started (of the direct B-to-B version) it's an
unusually prolific source of useful gliders, but as far as I know you have to
do a rather weird tandem-glider conversion to start things off. Is there a better way that I've missed seeing, to make a clean connection directly from a Herschel?
Speaking of Guam's still-underused discoveries -- here's another, probably silly, thought for a Bellman investigation. Is there any hope that Guam's 2G->H+G (G4 input) could be upgraded to a stable glider reflector, by catalyzing the output B-heptomino to produce one of the white input gliders?
Code: Select all
x = 82, y = 68, rule = LifeHistory
12.B2A47.B2A$10.2BA2BAB43.2BA2BAB$10.3B2A3B42.3B2A3B$8.12B38.12B$7.
14B36.14B$8.13B37.13B$8.14B36.14B$7.15B35.15B$7.14B36.14B$7.13B37.13B
$7.B3D4B.3B38.B3D4B.3B$7.2BD4B43.2BD4B$7.2B3D2B43.2B3D2B$7.6B44.6B$6.
7B43.7B$5.8B42.8B$4.8B42.8B$3.9B41.9B$3.3B.6B40.3B.6B$3.2B.7B40.2B.7B
$3.B2.6B41.B2.6B$6.6B44.6B$6.6B44.6B$5.8B42.8B$6.8B42.8B$5.9B41.9B$5.
9B41.9B$5.10B40.10B$5.5B2C3B40.5B2C3B$5.5B2C4B39.5B2C4B$5.11B39.11B$
5.4BD7BC.2C34.4BD7BC.2C$7.B3D4B2.2C.C36.B3D4B2.2C.C$.2A4.D2B2D2B9.CB
26.2A4.D2B2D2B$2.A4.6B9.BCBC26.A4.6B$2.A.AB.6B8.2B2C27.A.AB.6B$3.2AB.
7B6.4B29.2AB.7B$5.8B6.4B32.8B$6.7B5.4B34.7B$6.7B4.4B35.7B8.CB$2.B4.7B
2.4B32.B4.7B6.BCBC$.A2B.B.6B2.4B32.A2B.B.6B6.2B2C$A.A15B32.A.A11B4.4B
$.AB.13B34.AB.3B2A5B3.4B$4.12B38.3B2A4B3.4B$4.11B39.8B3.4B$5.10B40.5B
EB2.4B$3.14B36.3B2A2BEBE4B$3.15B35.3B2A2B2E6B$2.2A14B.2B31.2A14B.2B$
2.2A6BE9B2A30.2A16B2A$3.7BEBE5B.B2A31.15B.B2A$5.5B2E6B2.B34.13B2.B$5.
14B36.14B$7.12B38.12B$7.2B2A9B37.2B2A9B$8.B2A5B.4B36.2B2A5B.4B$8.9B.
4B36.9B.4B$8.9B2.4B35.9B2.4B$6.2A.8B3.4B32.2A.8B3.4B$6.A2.6B6.4B31.A
2.6B6.4B$4.A.A3.5B7.4B28.A.A3.5B7.4B$4.2A3.6B8.4B27.2A3.6B8.4B$10.4B
10.4B32.4B10.4B$11.2B12.4B32.2B12.4B$12.2B12.4B32.2B12.4B$11.B2AB12.
4B30.B2AB12.4B$12.2A14.4B30.2A14.4B!
It can be done with an edge-shooting H-to-G and a Hersrch search, but I seem to recall the result is painfully large and slow. Probably even a direct Bellman B-to-G conversion is too Rube Goldbergian an idea.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 10th, 2015, 9:14 pm
by Extrementhusiast
dvgrn wrote:Kazyan wrote:There's likely a compact way to hook that up to one of the more complicated B-to-H subcomponents, and point an escaping glider back via Snark. Might be small enough to use for something.
Don't let me discourage anyone, but every one of the obvious immediate glider outputs that I tried -- R64, Fx77, F166 (i.e., changing to a dependent-conduit output glider), etc. -- need a color-changing Snark. And the second natural glider from L112 and L156 doesn't happen to line up, and I don't think there's an H-to-G that can make that adjustment. Using a H-to-G kind of defeats the purpose of making a new conduit, anyway.
Well, you didn't try F171:
Code: Select all
x = 68, y = 55, rule = B3/S23
31b2o$30bobo$24b2o4bo$22bo2bo2b2ob4o$22b2obobobobo2bo$25bobobobo$25bob
ob2o$26bo2$39b2o$30b2o7bo$30b2o5bobo$37b2o7$27b2o$28bo16bo$25b3o17b3o$
25bo22bo$47b2o6$65bo$39b2o24bo$40bo24b3o$40bobo24bo$41b2o3$35bo$16b2o
17b3o$17bo20bo$16bo20b2o$16b2o$b2o4b2o$b2o4bobo$8bo2$2bo$b3o15b2o15bo$
2o2bo14b2o15bo$36b3o$38bo2$45b2o$46bo$43b3o$43bo!
Also, something else: what if the reset glider came from the conduit
before this, instead of after?
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 11th, 2015, 9:09 am
by dvgrn
Extrementhusiast wrote:Well, you didn't try F171...
Oddly enough, I
did try F171, but apparently had something lined up wrong. That seems like a reasonable-sized conduit, worth rolling into Hersrch.
Extrementhusiast wrote:Also, something else: what if the reset glider came from the conduit before this, instead of after?
I thought about that, but unless the preceding conduit is a 180-degree turn, it will take several Snarks to deliver the glider to the right place. Worth looking into a little, but it's going to increase the size quite a bit more.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 11th, 2015, 7:28 pm
by Kazyan
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$6bo2bobo$6b4ob2o$4b2o$3bo2b4ob2o$3b2obo2bob2o$2obo2bobo$o2b
obobo$2b2ob2o5$4b2o$4b2o4bobo$10b2o$11bo2$10b2o$10b2o!
Looks interesting. If it's no good for a stable G-to-H or similar, it's probably usable as a Pi-to-H subcomponent. The bait block can be a boat/beehive/whatever works to create a Pi, too.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 11th, 2015, 8:55 pm
by Extrementhusiast
dvgrn wrote:Extrementhusiast wrote:Also, something else: what if the reset glider came from the conduit before this, instead of after?
I thought about that, but unless the preceding conduit is a 180-degree turn, it will take several Snarks to deliver the glider to the right place. Worth looking into a little, but it's going to increase the size quite a bit more.
However, it would likely decrease the recovery time.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 5:07 am
by dvgrn
Kazyan wrote:Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$6bo2bobo$6b4ob2o$4b2o$3bo2b4ob2o$3b2obo2bob2o$2obo2bobo$o2b
obobo$2b2ob2o5$4b2o$4b2o4bobo$10b2o$11bo2$10b2o$10b2o!
Looks interesting. If it's no good for a stable G-to-H or similar, it's probably usable as a Pi-to-H subcomponent. The bait block can be a boat/beehive/whatever works to create a Pi, too.
Hmm. Starting catgl pattern:
Code: Select all
x = 39, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
35.A2.A2$33.A2.A2$31.A2.A2$29.A2.A2$27.A2.A2$10.C14.A2.A$9.C.C$6.C2.C
.C11.A2.A$6.4C.2C$4.2C5.BD8.A2.A$3.C2.4CB2A$3.2C.A2.CD2A6.A2.A$2C.C2.
ABA$C2.C.CBA9.A2.A$2.2C.CA$5.D9.A2.A2$13.A2.A$4.D$4.CA8.A$4.CA4.A.A$
4.D5.2A$11.A2$10.2A$10.2A!
It's certainly not a hopeless case. A simple 2-catalyst search turns up things like this:
Code: Select all
x = 139, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
35.A2.A96.A2.A2$33.A2.A96.A2.A2$31.A2.A96.A2.A2$29.A2.A96.A2.A2$27.A
2.A96.A2.A2$10.C14.A2.A81.C14.A2.A$9.C.C97.C.C$6.C2.C.C11.A2.A79.C2.C
.C11.A2.A$6.4C.2C93.4C.2C$4.2C15.A2.A79.2C15.A2.A3.2C$3.C2.4C.2A90.C
2.4C.2A15.2A$3.2C.A2.C.2A6.A2.A80.2C.A2.C.2A6.A2.A$2C.C2.A.A91.2C.C2.
A.A$C2.C.C.A9.A2.A79.C2.C.C.A9.A2.A$2.2C.CA95.2C.CA$15.A2.A96.A2.A2$
13.A2.A96.A2.A$22.AC111.AC$4.CA8.A7.AC80.CA8.A20.AC$4.CA4.A.A91.CA4.A
.A$10.2A98.2A$11.A99.A2$10.2A98.2A$10.2A98.2A$19.2A.C$19.2A.3C$25.C$
19.2C.3C$20.C.C$20.C.C$21.C!
If a catalyst isn't placed early, though, all the solutions I saw ended up retaining the two blinkers that appear at T=57. Maybe more or different catalysts can fix this, but it will probably take a better filtering system to find any good stuff in among all the trivial glider-catching results.
I'm running a T=16..60 3-catalyst search, just to see if anything interesting happens to show up. As with any search with Catgl 1.0.3, it's important to emphasize that this search will cover approximately 0% of the actual search space...!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 5:16 am
by Kazyan
dvgrn wrote:It's certainly not a hopeless case.
No kidding:
Code: Select all
x = 26, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$6bo2bobo$6b4ob2o$4b2o$3bo2b4ob2o$3b2obo2bob2o$2obo2bobo$o2b
obobo$2b2ob2o4$24bo$4b2o17bobo$4b2o4bobo10bobo$10b2o12bo$11bo2$10b2o$
10b2o!
I asked Bellman for a substitute for that side-of-a-beehive (similar structures work too) with repair-interval and max-active at 9, but it ran for about 10 minutes before quitting with 0 solutions, which is not a good sign. Going to try again with 12. Wish me luck.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 10:16 am
by dvgrn
Not surprisingly, the three-catalyst search didn't turn up anything new.
Kazyan wrote:dvgrn wrote:It's certainly not a hopeless case.
No kidding:
Code: Select all
#C [sacrificial beehive restores the bait block]
x = 26, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
10.C$9.C.C$6.C2.C.C$6.4C.2C$4.2C6.D$3.C2.4C.2A$3.2C.A2.CD2A$2C.C2.A.A
$C2.C.C.A$2.2CDCA4$4.D19.A$4.CA17.A.A$4.CA4.A.A10.A.A$4.D5.2A12.A$11.
A2$10.2A$10.2A!
For me this new variant is actually a step or two down the hopefulness scale -- you've repaired the bait block but only at the cost of a beehive, which is less likely to reappear than the block was, and there's no output glider yet. But I do love to be proved wrong.
Seems like what we really ought to do is to automate the transparent-object stage of the search better. Given a promising result, try dropping all likely common objects at all possible locations nearby, and try say a 1-catalyst search
for each such object and see if the object ever happens to be restored.
Ptbsearch can do this already, but is there a catgl-based way to do it that would be more efficient? It's the usual problem of defining searches that cover as much of the likely part of the search space as possible, with as little time wasted as possible re-searching the same space again and again (e.g., different eaters for the same glider.)
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 10:44 am
by Kazyan
dvgrn wrote:For me this new variant is actually a step or two down the hopefulness scale -- you've repaired the bait block but only at the cost of a beehive, which is less likely to reappear than the block was, and there's no output glider yet. But I do love to be proved wrong.
Seems like what we really ought to do is to automate the transparent-object stage of the search better. Given a promising result, try dropping all likely common objects at all possible locations nearby, and try say a 1-catalyst search for each such object and see if the object ever happens to be restored.
Ptbsearch can do this already, but is there a catgl-based way to do it that would be more efficient? It's the usual problem of defining searches that cover as much of the likely part of the search space as possible, with as little time wasted as possible re-searching the same space again and again (e.g., different eaters for the same glider.)
A block
almost works in the same location, and various other small objects make it work too, which is why I'm running Bellman for it. But I currently have 106m prunes for too many actives cells and only 3.5m for catalyst recovery, which I'm taking to mean "this can't be catalyzed; it just explodes no matter what you do". Oh well.
Good idea for transparency searching. I've noticed quite a few transparent blocks in existing conduit collections...Block-> B -> Block + H is a thing that happens more often than I expected. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to reuse most of catgl's code for a transparency.py script or somesuch.
Code: Select all
#C Secondary transparent block reaction and output Herschel, but primary block becomes an awkwardly-placed beehive instead of being restored. Whoops.
x = 27, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$6bo2bobo$6b4ob2o$4b2o$3bo2b4ob2o$3b2obo2bob2o$2obo2bobo$o2b
obobo$2b2ob2o18b2o$25bo$23bobo$23b2o2$4b2o$4b2o4bobo$10b2o$11bo2$10b2o
$10b2o3$16b2o$16b2o!
EDIT: It's 20 minutes after waking up; do you know where your typos are?
EDIT2: Not a Bellman find, but one of the more obscure catalysts. There's a blinker that needs glider-assisted cleanup, but there's a small-but-usable plume that results off in a good direction. Haven't seen a conduit with this interaction in use yet...
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5bobo$6b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o7$14b3o$15bo$13b3o!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 16th, 2015, 3:07 pm
by praosylen
This has just
got to be known:
Code: Select all
x = 38, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
24.3D$24.DBD$23.BDBDB$23.5B$23.6B$22.7B$11.C10.8B$11.3C8.9B$14.C7.9B$
13.2C6.10B$13.5B2.13B$15.18B.2B$14.2C19B2C$14.2C17B.B2C$15.B.17B.B$
17.16B$18.14B$19.8B2.4B$20.7B3.4B$17.11B3.4B$16.12B4.4B$16.12B5.2BDB$
16.11B7.2B2D$16.B3C4B.4B6.2D$16.2BC4B4.2C$16.2B3C2B4.C$16.6B6.3C$15.
7B8.C$14.4B.B$13.4B$12.4B$11.4B$10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$
3.4B$2.4B$.D3B$D3B$3D!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 16th, 2015, 3:19 pm
by Extrementhusiast
A for awesome wrote:This has just
got to be known:
Yes, that's the H-to-pi converter used in the Fx176 conduit.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 17th, 2015, 1:40 pm
by Kazyan
Do we already have an H->2G that does this or a different-catalyst duplicate of this?
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
10bo$8b3o$7bo$7b2o2$4b2o$4bobo$2o3b2o$2o23b2o$24bobo$24bo$23b2o$22bo$
22b3o$25bo$24b2o2$21b2o$21bobo$23bo$23b2o5$14b3o$5b2o8bo$6bo6b3o$3b3o$
3bo!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 17th, 2015, 2:31 pm
by dvgrn
Kazyan wrote:Do we already have an H->2G that does this or a different-catalyst duplicate of this?
Holy tandem gliders, Kazyan! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Yes, that's a variant of a known H->G6 in Calcyman's collection. Useful for making adjustable B=backward and Bx=backward flipped Herschel conduits, since G2, G5, and G6 can be caught by standard Herschel transceivers:
Code:
Select all
#C [[ AUTOSTART STOP 409 HEIGHT 300 THEME 9 ]]
x = 140, y = 103, rule = B3/S23
52bo$50b3o$49bo$49b2o2$46b2o$46bobo85bo$42b2o3b2o63b2o9b2o7b3o$42b2o
23b2o43b2o9b2o6bo$66bobo62b2o$66bo$65b2o$64bo$64b3o$67bo$66b2o2$63b2o
68b2obo$63bobo67b2ob3o$65bo73bo$65b2o66b2ob3o$134bobo$134bobo$135bo2$
56b3o67b3o$47b2o8bo59b2o8bo$48bo6b3o60bo6b3o$45b3o67b3o$10b2o33bo34b2o
33bo$10b2o68b2o$6bo69bo$6b3o67b3o$9bo53b2o14bo53b2o$8b2o11bo41bobo12b
2o11bo41bobo$20bobo7b2o33bo24bobo7b2o33bo$20bobo7b2o33b2o23bobo7b2o33b
2o$21bo69bo5$18b2o68b2o$18b2o68b2o$4b2o68b2o$4b2o68b2o$2o68b2o$2o68b2o
14$24b2o68b2o$23bobo67bobo$24bo69bo7$26b2obo66b2obo$26bob2o66bob2o2$
19b2o68b2o$19b2o68b2o7$9b2o68b2o$10bo69bo$10bobo67bobo$11b2o68b2o6$18b
3o67b3o$18bo69bo$17b3o67b3o8$22b2o68b2o$21bo2bo66bo2bo$22b2o68b2o!
Unfortunately this new variant isn't quite Spartan either, or it would be quite handy in self-constructing circuitry.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 18th, 2015, 1:48 pm
by Kazyan
Another H-to-G, but boring, and again, might be a duplicate (though it does involve a Bellman result this time.)
Code: Select all
x = 30, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
17bo$16bobo$16bobo$4bo10b2ob3o$4b3o14bo$7bo7b2ob3o$6b2o7b2obo4$25bo$
24bobo$25bo3$25b2o$26bo$2b2o22bob2o$3bo21b2ob2o$3o$o$4b2o$3bobo$3bo$2b
2o$17b3o4b2o$18bo5b2o$16b3o!
I guess with the first escaping glider and the actual H-to-G part, it could be handy for closing the signal loop on "bootstrapped" guns.
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 18th, 2015, 2:50 pm
by praosylen
On a different note, a loafer-to-pi converter:
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
7.2C$6.B2CB$6.3B$6.2B$.B3.5B$2CB.2C2BCB2C$2CBC2BC2B2CB$.3BCBC5B$.4BC
6B$3.8BC5B.2B$3.6B3C9B$4.4BC12B$5.4BC10B$6.4B2C9B$8.13B$8.13B4.B$9.
14B.B2C$9.2B3D11B2C$10.BD12B.B$11.3D9B$13.8B$14.5B!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 20th, 2015, 1:48 pm
by Kazyan
This one needs to wait until pretty late in the Herschel's evolution to work. I haven't figured anything out with it.
Code: Select all
x = 30, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
$21b2o$21b2o2$o$obo$3o$2bo21b2o$24bo$25bo$24b2o$21b2o$21bob3o$22bo3bo$
23bo2bo$24bobob2o$23b2ob2obo!
Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits
Posted: February 20th, 2015, 2:14 pm
by dvgrn
Kazyan wrote:This one needs to wait until pretty late in the Herschel's evolution to work. I haven't figured anything out with it.
Hmm. Adding a block here extracts a glider, and protects the catalyst from immediate destruction, and gets a Herschel out to the north. But it's probably still a bit too messy to be a very likely candidate for a complete cleanup:
Code:
Select all
x = 30, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
21b2o$21b2o2$o$obo$3o$2bo21b2o$24bo$25bo$24b2o$21b2o$21bob3o$22bo3bo$
23bo2bo$24bobob2o$23b2ob2obo5$14b2o$14b2o!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL ]]