Pattern viewer for forum threads

[rowett]

it seems as though non-Moore birth and survival conditions in HROT can accept numbers that look like they should be out of range, but aren't.

Well spotted. The neighbourhood counts were always being checked against the Moore neighbourhood. It now checks counts against the specified neighbourhood.

Almost certaintly low-priority (as always) suggestion regarding HROT: since we can specify "every single condition from one value to the other" using a dash (e.g. 3-8 = 3,4,5,6,7,8), can we have a way to similarly indicate that only every second birth/survival condition be considered within the given range? For example, R1,C2,S0~8,B1~7,NM would be the same as saying R1,C2,S0,2,4,6,8,B1,3,5,7.

Not sure about this one: a) it's a bit of an edge case and b) the "~" and "-" are visually very similar so could easily lead to misunderstandings.

[muzik]

The Golly R100 NN bug seems to take a dramatically larger time to start running than the packaged Moore bug, even for a single generation, which seems to pretty much freeze up the viewer entirely:

Code: Select all

x = 138, y = 124, rule = R100,C0,M1,S5612..9776,B5612..7585,NN
34b16o38b16o$31b30o16b30o$28b82o$26b86o$25b88o$23b92o$22b94o$20b98o$
19b100o$18b102o$17b104o$16b106o$15b108o$14b110o$13b112o$12b114o$11b
116o$11b116o$10b118o$9b120o$8b122o$8b122o$7b124o$7b124o$6b126o$5b128o$
5b128o$4b130o$4b130o$3b132o$3b132o$3b132o$2b134o$2b134o$2b134o$b136o$b
136o$b136o$b136o$138o$138o$138o$66o6b66o$61o16b61o$58o22b58o$55o28b55o
$53o32b53o$52o34b52o$50o38b50o$49o40b49o$49o40b49o$b48o40b48o$b47o42b
47o$b47o42b47o$b46o44b46o$b46o44b46o$2b45o44b45o$2b45o44b45o$2b45o44b
45o$3b43o46b43o$3b43o46b43o$3b43o46b43o$4b42o46b42o$4b42o46b42o$5b41o
46b41o$5b41o46b41o$5b41o46b41o$6b40o46b40o$6b40o46b40o$6b40o46b40o$7b
39o46b39o$7b39o46b39o$7b39o46b39o$8b38o46b38o$8b38o46b38o$9b37o46b37o$
9b37o46b37o$9b37o46b37o$10b36o46b36o$10b36o46b36o$10b36o46b36o$11b35o
46b35o$11b35o46b35o$11b35o46b35o$12b34o46b34o$12b34o46b34o$12b34o46b
34o$12b34o46b34o$13b33o46b33o$13b33o46b33o$13b33o46b33o$13b33o46b33o$
14b32o46b32o$14b32o46b32o$14b32o46b32o$14b32o46b32o$15b31o46b31o$15b
31o46b31o$15b31o46b31o$16b30o46b30o$16b30o46b30o$16b30o46b30o$17b29o
46b29o$17b29o46b29o$17b29o46b29o$18b29o44b29o$18b33o36b33o$19b37o26b
37o$19b100o$20b98o$21b96o$21b96o$22b94o$23b92o$24b90o$26b86o$28b82o$
30b78o$33b72o$37b64o$41b56o$46b46o$52b34o$58b22o!

Code: Select all

x = 204, y = 203, rule = R100,C0,M1,S10350..15740,B9350..12360,NM
85b34o$79b46o$75b54o$72b60o$69b66o$67b70o$65b74o$63b78o$62b80o$60b84o$
59b86o$58b88o$56b92o$55b94o$54b96o$53b98o$52b100o$51b102o$51b102o$50b
104o$49b106o$48b108o$47b110o$47b110o$46b112o$45b114o$45b114o$44b116o$
44b116o$43b118o$42b120o$42b120o$41b122o$41b122o$40b124o$40b124o$39b
126o$39b126o$38b128o$38b128o$37b130o$36b132o$36b132o$35b134o$35b134o$
34b136o$33b138o$33b138o$32b140o$31b142o$31b142o$30b144o$30b144o$29b
146o$28b148o$28b148o$27b150o$27b150o$26b152o$25b154o$25b154o$24b156o$
24b11ob60o12b60ob11o$23b12ob57o18b57ob12o$23b11ob56o22b56ob11o$23b10o
2b54o26b54o2b10o$22b11o2b53o28b53o2b11o$22b10o2b53o30b53o2b10o$21b10o
3b52o32b52o3b10o$21b9o4b51o34b51o4b9o$20b10o4b50o36b50o4b10o$20b9o4b
50o38b50o4b9o$20b8o5b49o40b49o5b8o$19b8o6b48o42b48o6b8o$19b8o5b48o44b
48o5b8o$19b7o6b48o44b48o6b7o$18b7o7b47o46b47o7b7o$18b6o8b47o46b47o8b6o
$18b6o8b46o48b46o8b6o$17b6o8b47o48b47o8b6o$17b5o9b46o50b46o9b5o$17b5o
9b46o50b46o9b5o$17b4o10b46o50b46o10b4o$16b5o10b45o52b45o10b5o$16b4o10b
46o52b46o10b4o$16b3o11b45o54b45o11b3o$16b3o11b45o54b45o11b3o$15b3o12b
45o54b45o12b3o$15b3o12b44o56b44o12b3o$15b2o12b45o56b45o12b2o$15b2o12b
45o56b45o12b2o$14b2o13b44o58b44o13b2o$14b2o13b44o58b44o13b2o$14b2o12b
45o58b45o12b2o$13b2o13b44o60b44o13b2o$13b2o13b44o60b44o13b2o$13bo13b
44o62b44o13bo$12b2o13b44o62b44o13b2o$12b2o12b45o62b45o12b2o$12bo12b45o
64b45o12bo$11b2o12b45o64b45o12b2o$11b2o11b45o66b45o11b2o$10b2o11b46o
66b46o11b2o$9b3o11b45o68b45o11b3o$9b3o10b45o70b45o10b3o$8b3o10b46o70b
46o10b3o$7b4o10b45o72b45o10b4o$6b5o9b45o74b45o9b5o$6b4o10b45o74b45o10b
4o$5b5o9b45o76b45o9b5o$4b6o9b44o78b44o9b6o$4b6o8b45o78b45o8b6o$3b6o9b
44o80b44o9b6o$3b6o8b45o80b45o8b6o$2b7o7b45o82b45o7b7o$2b7o7b45o82b45o
7b7o$b7o7b45o84b45o7b7o$b7o7b45o84b45o7b7o$b7o6b45o86b45o6b7o$7o7b45o
86b45o7b7o$7o6b46o86b46o6b7o$7o6b45o88b45o6b7o$6o7b45o88b45o7b6o$6o6b
47o86b47o6b6o$6o6b47o86b47o6b6o$5o6b48o86b48o6b5o$b4o6b48o86b48o6b4o$b
3o7b49o84b49o7b3o$b3o6b50o84b50o6b3o$2bo7b51o82b51o7bo$10b51o82b51o$9b
53o80b53o$9b7o2b45o78b45o2b7o$9b6o3b44o80b44o3b6o$9b6o4b43o80b43o4b6o$
8b6o6b41o82b41o6b6o$8b5o8b40o82b40o8b5o$8b5o9b38o84b38o9b5o$8b4o11b37o
84b37o11b4o$9b3o12b35o86b35o12b3o$10bo14b34o86b34o14bo$26b32o88b32o$
27b31o88b31o$28b30o88b30o$29b29o88b29o$30b28o88b28o$31b27o88b27o$32b
26o88b26o$33b25o88b25o$34b25o86b25o$35b24o86b24o$36b24o84b24o$37b23o
84b23o$38b23o82b23o$39b22o82b22o$40b20o84b20o$41b19o84b19o$42b17o86b
17o$43b16o86b16o$44b15o86b15o$45b15o84b15o$46b16o80b16o$47b16o78b16o$
47b17o76b17o$48b17o74b17o$49b17o72b17o$50b17o70b17o$51b17o68b17o$52b
18o64b18o$53b18o62b18o$54b18o60b18o$55b19o56b19o$56b19o54b19o$57b20o
50b20o$58b21o46b21o$59b22o42b22o$59b25o36b25o$60b27o30b27o$59b31o24b
31o$59b37o12b37o$58b88o$59b86o$60b84o$61b82o$62b80o$63b78o$64b76o$65b
74o$67b70o$68b68o$69b66o$70b64o$72b60o$73b58o$75b54o$76b52o$78b48o$79b
46o$81b42o$84b36o$87b30o$90b24o$93b18o!

[rowett]

The Golly R100 NN bug seems to take a dramatically larger time to start running than the packaged Moore bug, even for a single generation, which seems to pretty much freeze up the viewer entirely

True there's a major optimization I've not done yet. Stay tuned it'll get better

[muzik]

When clicking on a nogui window, on ipad, the browser seems to scroll to the very top of the page and then back down again. Not sure if this is really worth looking into though. It only happens the first time and the page needs to be reloaded to repeat the effect.

Code: Select all

b2o2b2o$3b2o$3b2o$obo2bobo$o6bo2$o6bo$b2o2b2o$2b4o2$3b2o$3b2o! [[ NOGUI THEME 6 GRID HEIGHT 200 WIDTH 200 ]]

Excited to see the Neumann optimisation.

[rowett]

When clicking on a nogui window, on ipad, the browser seems to scroll to the very top of the page and then back down again. Not sure if this is really worth looking into though. It only happens the first time and the page needs to be reloaded to repeat the effect.

I'm becoming less of a fan of Safari...

I suspect I know why it's doing this but I'm not sure I can do anything about it.

On a PC when you move the mouse over the NOGUI window the word "Copy" appears telling you that if you click it's going to copy the RLE to the clipboard. On an iPad there's no concept of "mouse over" so you never see "Copy" but the tap still triggers copying the RLE to the clipboard.

Technically the Copy operation creates a hidden element at the top of the web page which is used to copy the RLE. Once copied it deletes the hidden element - and yes there are unpleasant technical reasons why it works this way.

Based on your report I suspect Safari, for no apparent reason, is scrolling up when the hidden element is created and then down again when it's deleted. I imagine it's trying to keep the "focus" element on the screen - even though in this case the focus element is hidden. Sigh.

[rowett]

A note on LifeViewer memory usage:
The next release of LifeViewer has several changes to reduce the amount of memory each Viewer uses.

Three of these are automatic:

1. The default grid size is now 512x512 (it used to be 1024x1024). Given most patterns are smaller than 512x512 this is a significant saving. This change has no impact on pattern size. The grid (as before) will automatically grow as needed (up to the default maximum of 8192x8192 or if specified with [[ MAXGRIDSIZE 14 ]] 16384x16384).
2. The memory for the Stars display (hotkey "S") is not allocated until first used.
3. The memory for the population graph is not allocated if [[ THUMBLAUNCH ]] is specified and [[ GRAPH ]] is not.

Two of these require script commands to be added to the RLE:

1. [[ NOGRAPH ]] - this disables the population graph which is available by default.
2. [[ NOSTEPBACK ]] - this disables the ability to step back to earlier generations.

[muzik]

On the topic of memory: can the information provided in the Help screen be split up in a way that less scrolling is needed to get to the desired place? A few squares that appear below the Help button after clicking it that automatically jump you to the desired section would be useful.

Also, can a button to activate stars be added in a similar way to the buttons for the offset pseudo-hex grid and for the graph?

[rowett]

On the topic of memory: can the information provided in the Help screen be split up in a way that less scrolling is needed to get to the desired place? A few squares that appear below the Help button after clicking it that automatically jump you to the desired section would be useful.

Yes it's on the backlog.

Also, can a button to activate stars be added in a similar way to the buttons for the offset pseudo-hex grid and for the graph?

Yes, already implemented. Here is the test case.

[muzik]

Testing on build 285 on that page, it seems the HROT S8 bug I reported earlier is still present?

Also, the FPS button looks weird at the side, can it be moved into the center with the other four buttons?

[rowett]

Testing on build 285 on that page, it seems the HROT S8 bug I reported earlier is still present?

It was fixed and then broke again. It should be fixed now.

Also, the FPS button looks weird at the side, can it be moved into the center with the other four buttons?

It's there because a) it's available in the Help menu and b) it sits on top of the timing display when activated.

[rowett]

Also, the FPS button looks weird at the side, can it be moved into the center with the other four buttons?

Actually I've changed my mind and agree with you. The FPS button has moved and become Timing. This means the Help Topics list is now aligned with the right edge of the window.

[muzik]

Can the Stars button be moved to the bottom right to keep the menu as symmetric as possible, and can a slider be added for history states?

EDIT: It also seems as though long-lived cells aren't affected by historystates.

[rowett]

Can the Stars button be moved to the bottom right to keep the menu as symmetric as possible

Yes

and can a slider be added for history states?

No. History is pre-processed at pattern load time.

It also seems as though long-lived cells aren't affected by historystates.

Correct. They're history states, not longevity states.

[rowett]

Excited to see the Neumann optimisation.

Performance is improved for von Neumann and Circular neighbourhoods for LTL and HROT. See the last pattern on this page.

Still more to come.

[muzik]

Still some room for improvement, but this is MUCH better than what it had been, and I excitedly await the coming improvements.

Side note though: that page does still crash repeatedly on ipad safari, and I feel afraid that the memory/performance optimisations might not have been sufficient enough to stop this issue from happening (unless not all of said optimisations have yet been implemented).

I also feel tempted to suggest a LONGEVITYSTATES argument, so we can have parity with the control over the display of both types of gerontological cells, but I'm not too sure.

[muzik]

The latest build also handles longevity for 2-state rules with theme 11 weirdly as well (run in the viewer page, not the forum):

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 280, rule = B3/S23
7bo$7bobo$7b2o3$2o$2o2$4b2o$4b2o41$63b2o$63b2o2$59b2o$59b2o41$2o$2o2$
4b2o$4b2o41$63b2o$63b2o2$59b2o$59b2o41$2o$2o2$4b2o$4b2o41$63b2o$63b2o
2$59b2o$59b2o41$2o$2o2$4b2o$4b2o!
[[ THEME 11 HISTORYSTATES 63 ]]

Long-lived cells start off as red, and then fade to yellow, which I think is kind of weird.
I propose the following should happen instead:

- 2-state rules run with theme 1 and multistate run with theme 11 should run as they currently do with no changes
- For 2-state rules run with theme 11, born cells should start off as yellow, and then fade into white. History states would be a fading medium red to dark red as they currently are.
- For multistate rules run with state 1, live cells will always be cyan, and dying states fade from cyan into a bright (not light) blue. History states would be a fading medium blue to dark blue as they currently are.

[muzik]

Can the Generations algorithm be allowed to simulate B0 Generations rules on a bounded grid? LTL allows it, so I'd think it should be able to be extended.

(Flashing warning, by the way. In fact, could an option to somehow simulate two-state B0 rules without using alternating rule substitution be added? I don't see much use in such a thing, though, so I'm not too sure. Either way, it might be prudent to include seizure warnings in the viewer for B0 rules in rulespaces with visual strobing.)

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 15, rule = R1,C3,M1,S6..6,B0..8,NM:T300,300
8.6A$6.4A4.2A$5.A4.2A4.A$4.A7.A4.A$3.A8.A4.A$2.A8.2A4.A$.2A6.2A.A5.A$
A.A5.A3.A5.A$2A5.A4.A5.A$2A5.A3.2A5.A$2A4.5A7.A$2A15.A$2A14.A$A.A11.
2A$3.11A!

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 15, rule = B012345678/S6/G3:T300,300
8.6A$6.4A4.2A$5.A4.2A4.A$4.A7.A4.A$3.A8.A4.A$2.A8.2A4.A$.2A6.2A.A5.A$
A.A5.A3.A5.A$2A5.A4.A5.A$2A5.A3.2A5.A$2A4.5A7.A$2A15.A$2A14.A$A.A11.
2A$3.11A!

[77topaz]

(Flashing warning, by the way. In fact, could an option to somehow simulate two-state B0 rules without using alternating rule substitution be added? I don't see much use in such a thing, though, so I'm not too sure. Either way, it might be prudent to include seizure warnings in the viewer for B0 rules in rulespaces with visual strobing.)

I too think it would be interesting to have an option to see the strobing, as it can sometimes make the behaviour of B0 rules easier to understand. However, it might be easier to do this by retaining the alternation for computing each generation (not doing so may decrease performance by requiring larger sections of the universe to be simulated) but simply flipping the colours the states are rendered in each generation.

[rowett]

The latest build also handles longevity for 2-state rules with theme 11 weirdly as well (run in the viewer page, not the forum)

I'm not planning on changing the colour Themes although I'm happy to add new Themes if anyone cares to define some new visually interesting ones.
You can define custom themes per pattern using the [[ COLOR ]] script command.

[[ THEME 11 HISTORYSTATES 63 ]]

Just in case you didn't realise [[ HISTORYSTATES 63 ]] is the default and so can be omitted.

[rowett]

Side note though: that page does still crash repeatedly on ipad safari, and I feel afraid that the memory/performance optimisations might not have been sufficient enough to stop this issue from happening (unless not all of said optimisations have yet been implemented).

That page contains some very large patterns including the range 500 bug which use a lot of memory. The memory optimisations just allow more Viewers and/or large patterns before the browser memory limit is reached.

I also feel tempted to suggest a LONGEVITYSTATES argument, so we can have parity with the control over the display of both types of gerontological cells, but I'm not too sure.

It's not a priority for me.

[rowett]

... could an option to somehow simulate two-state B0 rules without using alternating rule substitution be added?

I too think it would be interesting to have an option to see the strobing, as it can sometimes make the behaviour of B0 rules easier to understand.

I'm not a fan of strobing so it's unlikely this will be added.

[muzik]

What I was trying to convey with the theme changes suggestion:

Two-state rules run with THEME 11 would look like this:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
o$o$o$o$b2o$3bo$3bo!
[[ COLOR BACKGROUND 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVE 255 255 0 COLOR ALIVERAMP 255 255 255 COLOR DEAD 63 0 0 COLOR DEADRAMP 255 0 0 ]]

Multistate with THEME 1 would look something like this. However, freshly dead cells would start off with 0 0 127 or something instead of 0 0 255 and would fade to 0 0 63 (or whatever colour the oldest dead state is) as usual.

Code: Select all

x = 205, y = 125, rule = B34/S12/G3
77.29A$73.4A29.4A$70.3A37.2A$66.4A41.A$64.2A46.A$63.A48.A$62.A50.A$
61.A51.A$60.A53.A$58.2A54.A$57.A57.A$56.A58.A$51.2A2.A60.A$50.A.A.A
61.A$49.A.A.A62.A$48.A2.A.A62.A$47.A2.A.A63.A$47.A2.A.A63.A$46.A2.A.A
64.A$45.A3.A.A64.A$44.A3.A.A66.A$43.A4.A.A52.5A9.A66.2A$42.A5.2A48.5A
5.6A3.A62.4A$42.A4.A.A2.4A38.4A16.4A58.4A$41.A5.5A4.4A31.3A23.A54.4A$
40.A5.3A11.5A24.2A26.2A51.2A$40.A2.5A17.3A20.A3.3A22.A.A47.3A$39.A.2A
3.2A20.2A16.2A2.2A3.3A19.A2.A43.3A$38.A.A5.2A22.2A12.2A2.2A7.A19.A3.A
40.2A$38.2A5.A.A24.2A9.A2.2A9.A19.A4.A37.2A$37.2A6.A.A26.A6.2A.2A11.A
19.A5.A34.2A$37.A7.A.A27.2A3.A.2A13.A19.A6.A31.2A$36.A7.A.A30.3A.A15.
A19.A7.A28.2A$35.A8.A.A30.A.2A16.A19.A7.A26.2A$34.2A8.A.A29.A2.A.2A
14.A18.A9.A23.2A$33.2A9.A.A28.A2.A4.A13.A18.A9.A21.2A$32.2A10.A.A27.A
2.A19.A18.A10.A18.2A$32.2A9.A2.A26.A2.A19.A19.A10.A16.2A$31.2A10.A2.A
25.A2.A20.A19.A11.A13.2A$31.2A10.A2.A23.2A2.A20.A20.A11.A11.2A$30.2A
11.A3.A21.A3.A21.A20.A11.A10.A$30.2A11.A3.A20.A3.A21.A21.A12.A7.2A$
30.A12.A3.A19.A3.A22.A21.A12.A6.A$29.2A11.A4.A18.A3.A22.A21.A14.A3.2A
$29.A12.A5.A16.A3.A23.A21.A14.A2.A$28.2A12.A5.A15.A3.A23.A22.A14.3A$
28.A13.A5.A14.A4.A23.A21.A15.A$28.A13.A6.A12.A4.A24.A21.A13.2A.A$27.
2A13.A7.A11.A4.A23.A22.A12.A3.A$27.2A12.A9.A9.A4.A24.A21.A11.2A4.A$
26.A.A12.A9.A8.A5.A23.A22.A10.A6.A$26.A.A12.A10.A7.A4.A24.A22.A9.A7.A
$25.A2.A12.A11.A5.A5.A23.A23.A7.2A9.A33.A$25.A2.A12.A12.A3.A5.A24.A
22.A7.A11.A32.A$24.A3.A12.A13.2A.A4.A24.A23.A6.A12.A31.A$24.A3.A12.A
15.2A4.A24.A23.A4.2A13.A29.2A$23.A4.A12.A14.A2.2A.A24.A23.A4.A15.A28.
A$23.A4.A12.A13.A5.15A11.A23.A3.A17.A26.A$22.A6.A11.A11.9A.2A11.16A
19.A2.A18.A25.A$22.A6.A11.A7.4A.A6.A3.3A19.A4.11A7.A.2A19.A24.A$22.A
7.A10.A3.4A4.A6.A7.4A15.A15.5A2.2A21.A23.A$21.A8.A10.4A8.A6.A11.4A11.
A20.5A20.A21.2A7.29A$21.A9.A8.2A10.A7.A15.6A5.A20.2A3.5A15.A15.15A20.
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[[ COLOR BACKGROUND 0 0 0 COLOR ALIVE 0 255 255 COLOR ALIVERAMP 0 255 255 COLOR DEAD 0 0 63 COLOR DEADRAMP 0 0 255 ]]

[muzik]

Can the Golly default colour palette be added as a theme, and have it be selected in error cases where it appears? The way it works currently is pretty weird.

[muzik]

Low priority, but will Mirek's Weighted Life notation for non-totalistic rules and Vote for Life notation for truly totalistic rules ever be supported?

[rowett]

Can the Golly default colour palette be added as a theme, and have it be selected in error cases where it appears? The way it works currently is pretty weird.

No. What I've done instead is remove the Theme slider in error cases since it makes no sense - test.