Methuselah based spaceships

[dvgrn]

Speaking of the fuse on the Caterpillar, I watched as the Caterpillar constructed the fuse, and instead of building horizontal layers, it built vertical layers, from right to left (but of course it is possible to build it left to right as well, because of the fairly symmetric design of the fuse), with the building mechanism off to the side. Perhaps we could use the same method to construct the fuse for a rake?

Yes, that would be pretty much the only way it could be done. If you were thinking of building a helix from front to back, then we might have been talking somewhat at cross-purposes for the last few messages.

You can't reach into a helix from behind and add another spaceship, because spaceships travel at c/2, which is as fast as most things can possibly go in Life, and twice as fast as gliders can manage. So you pretty much have to work by building a helix flotilla up gradually from the sides.

[RakeGuy1246]

Speaking of the fuse on the Caterpillar, I watched as the Caterpillar constructed the fuse, and instead of building horizontal layers, it built vertical layers, from right to left (but of course it is possible to build it left to right as well, because of the fairly symmetric design of the fuse), with the building mechanism off to the side. Perhaps we could use the same method to construct the fuse for a rake?

Yes, that would be pretty much the only way it could be done. If you were thinking of building a helix from front to back, then we might have been talking somewhat at cross-purposes for the last few messages.

You can't reach into a helix from behind and add another spaceship, because spaceships travel at c/2, which is as fast as most things can possibly go in Life, and twice as fast as gliders can manage. So you pretty much have to work by building a helix flotilla up gradually from the sides.

So the plan is: build a series of rakes moving in the same direction as the fuse burns, plus block synthesizers or whatever is needed to make *WSSes for that layer, at just the right speed to keep the wick burning without blocking the glider-output mechanism.

[dvgrn]

So the plan is: build a series of rakes moving in the same direction as the fuse burns, plus block synthesizers or whatever is needed to make *WSSes for that layer, at just the right speed to keep the wick burning without blocking the glider-output mechanism.

That's sort of the general plan for building a (13,1)c/31 spaceship, but it doesn't work at all for the kind of "artificial rake" that you seem to be talking about.

There's no such thing as "a series of rakes moving in the same direction as the fuse burns", because the burning end of the fuse is moving at (13,1)c/31, and we don't have any clean rakes yet that move at that weird angle. The actual vector is (-16,-208)c/496, so this is a "16x helix", by the way; we'd need to build new *WSSes every 496 ticks if the building mechanism were traveling at (13,1)c/31... but it's a different number if the rakes are traveling in some other direction.

If by the "same direction" you mean the direction the individual *WSSes are traveling, well, that could only work from the right side. If you put rakes traveling upward on the left side, then sooner rather than later the helix will drift over sideways and crash into them. However, rakes traveling at c/4 or c/5 heading westward might have a chance. The c/5 option is the simplest; you'd just need p80 rakes (which we don't have, but maybe we could make some out of higher period rakes).

The c/4 option requires building a huge complex fuse westward, and burning it a little bit slower than it's created to make the upward helix... which in turn gets burned by the leading glider to make the strange somewhat rake-like behavior that you're looking for.

Someone else can do the calculations for whether rakes paralleling the *WSSes on the right side of the helix would work, and what period they would have to be.

[RakeGuy1246]

So the plan is: build a series of rakes moving in the same direction as the fuse burns, plus block synthesizers or whatever is needed to make *WSSes for that layer, at just the right speed to keep the wick burning without blocking the glider-output mechanism.

That's sort of the general plan for building a (13,1)c/31 spaceship, but it doesn't work at all for the kind of "artificial rake" that you seem to be talking about.

There's no such thing as "a series of rakes moving in the same direction as the fuse burns", because the burning end of the fuse is moving at (13,1)c/31, and we don't have any clean rakes yet that move at that weird angle. The actual vector is (-16,-208)c/496, so this is a "16x helix", by the way; we'd need to build new *WSSes every 496 ticks if the building mechanism were traveling at (13,1)c/31... but it's a different number if the rakes are traveling in some other direction.

If by the "same direction" you mean the direction the individual *WSSes are traveling, well, that could only work from the right side. If you put rakes traveling upward on the left side, then sooner rather than later the helix will drift over sideways and crash into them. However, rakes traveling at c/4 or c/5 heading westward might have a chance. The c/5 option is the simplest; you'd just need p80 rakes (which we don't have, but maybe we could make some out of higher period rakes).

The c/4 option requires building a huge complex fuse westward, and burning it a little bit slower than it's created to make the upward helix... which in turn gets burned by the leading glider to make the strange somewhat rake-like behavior that you're looking for.

Someone else can do the calculations for whether rakes paralleling the *WSSes on the right side of the helix would work, and what period they would have to be.

Whatever you have to do to get this thing built because I want to see this thing built.

[dvgrn]

Whatever you have to do to get this thing built because I want to see this thing built.

Sadly, it doesn't usually work that way around here. If you want to see something built, generally you have to either convince other people that it's a really good idea, or build it yourself.

Speaking for myself, I still think that the pattern you're suggesting would be so huge that it might be hard to figure out how to zoom in to the right place to see what's maybe slightly interesting about it.

You haven't yet answered the points I raised there about why exactly it would be so interesting to build something that seems so pointlessly difficult -- compared to building, say, a rake "tethered" to rakes traveling 180 degrees opposite the helix direction, with a simple orthogonal helix. Seems like that would be thousands of times simpler than targeting an oblique helix -- which might bring the project down into the range where you could work on building it yourself, and ask questions when you have specific problems.

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 272, rule = B3/S23
3b3o$3bo2bo$3bo$3bo3bo$3bo3bo2b2o$3bo6bobo$4bobo3bo5$10bo$9b3o$8b2obo$
bo6b3o$3o5b3o$ob2o4b3o$b3o5b2o$b2o4$4b3o$3bo2bo$6bo$6bo$3bobo9$45b3o$
44bo2bo$47bo$43bo3bo$43bo3bo$47bo$44bobo5$40bo$39b3o$39bob2o$40b3o6bo$
40b3o5b3o$40b3o4b2obo$40b2o5b3o$48b2o4$44b3o$44bo2bo$44bo$44bo$45bobo
9$3b3o$3bo2bo$3bo$3bo3bo$3bo3bo$3bo$4bobo5$10bo$9b3o$8b2obo$bo6b3o$3o
5b3o$ob2o4b3o$b3o5b2o$b2o4$4b3o$3bo2bo$6bo$6bo$3bobo9$45b3o$44bo2bo$
47bo$43bo3bo$43bo3bo$47bo$44bobo5$40bo$39b3o$39bob2o$40b3o6bo$40b3o5b
3o$40b3o4b2obo$40b2o5b3o$48b2o4$44b3o$44bo2bo$44bo$44bo$45bobo9$3b3o$
3bo2bo$3bo$3bo3bo$3bo3bo$3bo$4bobo5$10bo$9b3o$8b2obo$bo6b3o$3o5b3o$ob
2o4b3o$b3o5b2o$b2o4$4b3o$3bo2bo$6bo$6bo$3bobo9$45b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$43bo
3bo$43bo3bo$47bo$44bobo5$40bo$39b3o$39bob2o$40b3o6bo$40b3o5b3o$40b3o4b
2obo$40b2o5b3o$48b2o4$44b3o$44bo2bo$44bo$44bo$45bobo9$3b3o$3bo2bo$3bo$
3bo3bo$3bo3bo$3bo$4bobo5$10bo$9b3o$8b2obo$bo6b3o$3o5b3o$ob2o4b3o$b3o5b
2o$b2o4$4b3o$3bo2bo$6bo$6bo$3bobo9$45b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$43bo3bo$43bo3bo$
47bo$44bobo5$40bo$39b3o$39bob2o$40b3o6bo$40b3o5b3o$40b3o4b2obo$40b2o5b
3o$48b2o4$44b3o$44bo2bo$44bo$44bo$45bobo!

[RakeGuy1246]

Whatever you have to do to get this thing built because I want to see this thing built.

You haven't yet answered the points I raised there about why exactly it would be so interesting to build something that seems so pointlessly difficult...

First answer me this - when was the last new rake invented?

[dvgrn]

First answer me this - when was the last new rake invented?

Depends on what counts as a "rake". Maybe a few months ago.

Maybe few weeks ago -- there's nothing terribly interesting about the rakes making up those patterns, but it might be true that nobody ever put them together in quite that exact same way before.

Or maybe a little more recently than that, if you count rakes running on tracks -- could be added to a Silverfish to make an actual rake.

[RakeGuy1246]

First answer me this - when was the last new rake invented?

Depends on what counts as a "rake". Maybe a few months ago.

Maybe few weeks ago -- there's nothing terribly interesting about the rakes making up those patterns, but it might be true that nobody ever put them together in quite that exact same way before.

Or maybe a little more recently than that, if you count rakes running on tracks -- could be added to a Silverfish to make an actual rake.

Would this rake design be the only rake that uses a fuse, though? 'Cause that would be an interesting reason to build this rake.

[Hunting]

First answer me this - when was the last new rake invented?

Depends on what counts as a "rake". Maybe a few months ago.

Maybe few weeks ago -- there's nothing terribly interesting about the rakes making up those patterns, but it might be true that nobody ever put them together in quite that exact same way before.

Or maybe a little more recently than that, if you count rakes running on tracks -- could be added to a Silverfish to make an actual rake.

Would this rake design be the only rake that uses a fuse, though? 'Cause that would be an interesting reason to build this rake.

1. "Use" the fuse is an ambigious word. For example, the following rake "uses" a blinker fuse but is completely unrelated to your idea (and is a lot more useful):

Code: Select all

x = 125, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$16bo4bo$22bo$16bo5bo$17b6o3$33b2o$31bo4bo$37bo$31bo5bo$32b6o3$
107b5o$106bo4bo$41b6o64bo5b4o$40bo5bo59bo3bo5b6o$46bo61bo7b4ob2o$40bo
4bo74b2o$42b2o$89bo$87b2ob2o28bo$89bo14bo3bo3bo3bo5bo$104bo3bo3bo3bo6b
o$89bo14bo3bo3bo3bo6bo$87b2ob2o27b5o$89bo2$2b2o116b3o$o4bo15b4o24b2o
57bo10b5o$6bo13bo3bo21b3ob2o54bo3bo8b3ob2o$o5bo17bo21b5o60bo10b2o$b6o
13bo2bo23b3o56bo4bo$107b5o!

2. It's completely unreasonable to make a rake with that particular oblique helix as pointed out by dvgrn.