Difference between revisions of "LifeWiki:Tiki bar"

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* See [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2017]] for Tiki bar discussions started in 2017.
 
* See [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2017]] for Tiki bar discussions started in 2017.
 
* See [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2018]] for Tiki bar discussions started in 2018.
 
* See [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2018]] for Tiki bar discussions started in 2018.
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* See [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2019]] for Tiki bar discussions started in 2019.
  
== The list(s) of rules investigated on Catagolue ==
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==CiteDiscord template?==
  
Short version: these have increasingly become a burden to maintain on-wiki, and with Catagolue now having [https://catagolue.appspot.com/rules its own endpoint] providing an overview over and an exhaustive list of all rules searched, they're largely irrelevant now. (The on-wiki list was only started because Catagolue didn't provide one at the time.)
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Was thinking about this since [[User:Dvgrn]] added a Discord citation to the [[Max]] article. Would there be any objections to a template to cite the [https://discord.gg/BCuYCEn Conwaylife Lounge Discord server]? It is a public server, after all, and there have been quite a few notable discoveries and developments announced there over the years. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 17:53, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
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: Sounds good to me. I'd also like a Templates Cheat Sheet page under [[LifeWiki:Editor_pages|How to Contribute]] somewhere, probably just a section in [[Help:Templates]]. There are examples there of how to use some templates, but for many of them I currently just go hunting around randomly in articles until I find a good example of how it's used, and then copy and modify that. As the number of templates increases, this is starting to seem more and more, um, suboptimal. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:06, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
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:: I know it's been two months, but [[Template:CiteDiscord]] is now up and running on the [[Max]] article. Thoughts? [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 14:12, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
  
So I'm giving up maintainership of these. If anyone wants to take over, please do! [[User:Apple Bottom|Apple Bottom]] ([[User talk:Apple Bottom|talk]]) 17:00, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
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==Black ribbon==
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Briefly popping out of the woodwork to mourn [[Richard K. Guy|Rich]] --- I had the idea of adding a black ribbon in the lower right corner of pages. This is added by a bit of code in <tt>[[MediaWiki:Common.js]]</tt>, with some supporting CSS in <tt>[[MediaWiki:Common.css]]</tt>. To turn this off again, simply comment out the line that says
  
: If we are to retire the [[List of rules investigated on Catagolue]], how should we do this? Add a notice at the top saying:
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$( document ).ready(function() {
 +
    console.log( "ready!" );
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    addMourningRibbon();
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});
  
: "This page is no longer actively maintained in favour of the [https://catagolue.appspot.com/rules equivalent Catagolue page]."
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near the bottom of <tt>[[MediaWiki:Common.js]]</tt>. (Actually, commenting out the call to <tt>addMourningRibbon</tt> there will be enough.) Leave the rest of the code and the CSS in though; that way the ribbon can be reused next time there is a death in the community. (The link on the ribbon is set a little further up, and can easily be adjusted as needed.)
  
: or words to that effect?
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<s>N.B. --- the ribbon itself is a bit fiddly and doesn't always appear; I suspect this has to do with page caching, but I know too little about Javascript, Mediawiki and all that jazz to get to the bottom of it. Perhaps someone else who knows more can help.</s> Using jQuery (which, thankfully, is included in MediaWiki) fixed this, so we should now have a ribbon on all pages, always. [[User:Apple Bottom|Apple Bottom]] ([[User talk:Apple Bottom|talk]]) 10:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
  
: It still might be a good idea to actually keep the information in the LifeWiki, because Catagolue occasionally has outages when the daily quota has been exceeded, whereas conwaylife.com tends to be permanently accessible. [[User:Calcyman|Calcyman]] ([[User talk:Calcyman|talk]]) 18:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
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: The black ribbon has been there for over ten days now; anyone want to suggest an appropriate total time period for it? I wandered over to <tt>[[MediaWiki:Common.js]]</tt> to see what would have to be done to turn it off, but found that I didn't have permission:
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Permissions for editing of sitewide CSS/JS/JSON files were recently separated from the editinterface right.
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If you do not understand why you are getting this error, see [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.32/interface-admin mw:MediaWiki_1.32/interface-admin].
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:Luckily I had permission to give myself permission, so I can now comment out the relevant line. The Internet suggests there are common 7-day and 30-day traditional mourning periods. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 21:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
  
:: The wiki page does have some advantages over the Catagolue one, such as listing the rule integers for outer-totalistic rules and being easier to edit (e.g. adding names for new rules). [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 23:51, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
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::10 days seems fine to me. And yes, I had the same issue with permissions. Bit weird that MediaWiki doesn't give the relevant right to admins by default, but perhaps this is so that admins who're not aware of what they're doing won't accidentally break things. [[User:Apple Bottom|Apple Bottom]] ([[User talk:Apple Bottom|talk]]) 21:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
  
== Time for a consensus decision on pnames? ==
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== LifeViewer and RLE on OCA subpages ==
  
I've run the RLE-scraper script to collect new RLE files for a bulk upload. The script found 321 new RLE files. Before I send them to Nathaniel, it looks like I'll be doing some more standardization, especially involving pnames.
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I was just looking at some experimental pages that [https://conwaylife.com/wiki/User:Ultimium Hunting/Ultimium] has put together for LeapLife.  For example, the small knightship in LeapLife is called a "lepa", so it's presumably going to go under [[OCA:LeapLife/Lepa]].
  
The [[LifeWiki:Pattern_pages|guidelines for creating pnames]] say very clearly:
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But that brings up all kinds of questions.  Look at [https://conwaylife.com/wiki/User:Ultimium/LeapWiki/Lepa Hunting's experimental Lepa page].  If RLE is added in the RLE: namespace for a lepa, and for all the other things Hunting will want to document, then those patterns will end up in the main pattern collection, right?  That doesn't seem like such a good idea.  It would be nice to be able to put RLE someplace where LifeViewer can still find it, but it doesn't end up in the main LifeWiki pattern collection.  We only have a few non-Life patterns so far, like [[Bomber]], but it seems as if things could get out of control pretty fast if people want to add LifeViewer support for OCA pattern articles.
<pre>pname (required) The name of the pattern being described, but converted to lowercase and with all non-alphanumeric characters and spaces removed.</pre>
 
  
This has worked fine for us for the great majority of cases, but there are two related cases where blindly following that rule creates not-very-good pnames:
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It seems like some different templates might be needed, to point to the alternate RLE namespace (if that gets created), and to get rid of irrelevant stuff like the links to Catagolue syntheses which won't exist for OCA patterns.
  
# '''apgcode-based names''', where removing the underscore can sometimes concatenate two strings of digits. For example, according to the rule, [[Xs15_3lkia4z32]] is theoretically supposed to have a pname of "xs153lkia4z32", which reads as if it's a 153-bit still life.  Underscores are confusing in article names because MediaWiki turns right around and renders the name without an underscore. But they do seem to work fine, and they're necessary in other article names, anyway -- raw RLE "pname_synth" synthesis files need them.
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Thoughts on this?  Would it be better to skip the templates, and just recommend that OCA patterns should keep their RLEs directly in the articles, as part of embedded LifeViewer text?  Then I think the "RLE: here Plaintext: here" template won't work too well, and an alternate embedded-LifeViewer template for OCA patterns might be a good idea. (?) [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 16:09, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
# '''patterns named after a Niemiec or pentadecathlon.com ID''', where removing a period causes similar problems with readabilityExamples:
 
* [[37P7.1]], created by Sokwe in 2009 with a pname of "37p7.1" -- including the period. Another similar case is [http://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=37P10.1&diff=13437&oldid=13432 37P10.1], where Sokwe changed the pname from Nathaniel's original "37p101" to "37p10.1", back in 2010.
 
  
* [[38P11.1]], with a pname of "38p111". Periods in filenames are definitely annoying because the part after the period can look like a file extension... but I think "38p11.1" would really be better here.
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: I think there should be a separate category, say OCARLE: and an option in the template |rle = oca for checking specifically under that header. Either that or one of the three other options:
 +
:*Removing the pattern collection.
 +
:*Creating a new wiki for other cellular automata.
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:*Excluding all OCA RLE pages from the collection.
  
* Several patterns with pnames created by Entity Valkyrie recently: 14p2.1, 14p2.3, 14p2.4, 28p7.3, 28p7.3bumperbouncer, 28p7.3eatingss, 31.4, 33p3.1, 33p3.1bumper, 33p3.1eatingss, 33p3.1reactions, 34P6.1.
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:: I agree with OCARLE. [[User:Ultimium|Ultimium]] ([[User talk:Ultimium|talk]]) 03:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
  
====Capitalization Bad====
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:Giving a quick search for RLE:bg gives 5 RLE pages as well, all in LeapLife. I think those should be excluded even if the others can't be, especially if I'm going to create more. (and Hunting's too, afaik there's only RLE:Lepa and RLE:Crawfish so that shouldn't be too hard) [[User:Bubblegum|Bubblegum]] ([[User talk:Bubblegum|talk]]) 18:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
The last pname in that list is also nonstandard due to capitalization, but that's a separate problem. The full list of capitalized pnames is 35P12, 53P13, 55P10, 113P18, BF20H, BFx59Hinjector, FMHEB, Gtolwss.rle, L112functions, L156reactions, L156variants, L200, Lightspeedcrawler, P5HWV, P58toadflipper, PT8P, PT9B, PT38P -- again all by Entity Valkyrie, I thinkI'll definitely have to go through and fix all of these, just because they're dangerous to cross-platform uses of the pattern collection: "35P12.rle" will overwrite "35p12.rle" on a Windows operating system, but not on Linux.  And LifeViewer fails to find "RLE:35P12" when told given "pname = 35p12", because the LifeWiki's filesystem is case-sensitive.  So I think the no-capitalization part of the pname guidelines should continue to be very carefully enforced.
 
  
====Periods Not So Bad====
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: I don't object to either of these ideas, just want to point out that the latter option actually won't require the creation of a new template - if ''rle'' is specified instead of ''pname'', the links won't appear. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 21:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
However, given the long precedent for pnames occasionally including periods, I'm not planning to change any of Entity Valkyrie's pnames if a period is the only non-standard part. Should probably do something about "31.4", but the rest seem okay.
 
  
-- Anyone know where the ".4" comes from in "31.4", by the way?  The problem with calling the thing just plain "Snark catalyst" is that there are several workable Snark catalysts. 31.4 is one of the two most common ones, but it's not exactly "the" Snark catalyst. But no other common name has caught on. ('''Bellman Zero''', anyone? '''Catalyst B0'''?  '''31.4''' seems better than either of those.)
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:: I prefer to use a seperate collection instead of the RLE embedded in the page, and a template for OCA patterns, for, um, for no reason. I mean they will be easier to access and manage. [[User:Ultimium|Ultimium]] ([[User talk:Ultimium|talk]]) 06:11, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  
====Summary questions====
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::: So far, the only good way to add patterns to OCA pages is what Hunting/Ultimium has done, e.g., with [[User:Ultimium/LeapWiki/Crawfish]]. But this currently means that the crawfish RLE is going to get added to the omnibus RLE collection downloadable from the main page. There are currently 66 OCA patterns scattered in among the 2300+ Life patterns. Might it be a good idea to split out all OCA patterns and provide a separate downloadable collection?
TL;DR: Does anyone object if I adjust the pname guidelines to say that periods are okay, but "only where necessary", or something along those lines?  And also say that underscores are okay only in apgcode pnames and raw-RLE _synth articles? Underscores are a minor nightmare, because MediaWiki automatically converts them into spaces, and pnames really aren't supposed to include spaces.  I'm reasonably sure that that underscore-to-space conversion is bound to cause coding difficulties somewhere sometime. But unless someone wants to recommend consistently using periods in place of underscores in apgcode pnames, I just don't see any good alternative.
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[[RLE
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:::: I'm just mimicking Apple Bottom's [[User:Apple Bottom/Day & Night|Day & Night Wiki]]. I agree, we should split out all OCA patterns. {{unsigned|Ultimium}}
  
Comments, suggestions, disagreements? Please post 'em here! [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 17:56, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
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::: Also it might be worth adjusting the template used there somehow, to clearly label the crawfish spaceship in the infobox as being in a non-B3/S23 rule. (?) [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 13:49, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
  
: Also, not sure if anyone will find this note here, but gmc_nxtman's recent series of synthesis postings made for a good test case for reworking several pages recently updated by AwesoMan3000. It's been different changes for every article, but it tends to take a lot of fiddly adjustments to synchronize the pname, RLE, synthesis RLE, LifeViewer config, and any files already uploaded to the LifeWiki server.
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:::: I like the current idea of adding a new OCA RLE category so they won't get lumped into the B3/S23 stuff. Yes, I think adjusting the infobox template to make it more visible that the pattern is not a CGoL pattern is worth doing. Also, there are some RLEs I'm using in some of my user pages for OCA patterns. They are [[RLE:Smosmos]], [[RLE:Sakaphipush]], [[RLE:Sakacapush]], [[RLE:Sakaw2]], and [[RLE:Sakasaladc8]] if I didn't miss any. [[User:Saka|Saka]] ([[User talk:Saka|talk]]) 13:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
  
: I've done half a dozen articles for starters: [[very long snake]], [[trans-block on long hook]], [[integral with tub]], [[eater head siamese eater tail]], [[cis-block on long hook]], and [[aircraft carrier with feather]].  LifeViewer generally Just Works once there's a raw RLE article with the right pname, but the images come out too small by default, so I've been adding viewerconfig '''THUMBSIZE 2'''. This should probably be a default added to the template, with SUPPRESS, except I don't know if that will change the looks of a lot of existing articles).
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::::: I've compiled the list of OCA RLE pages here: [[RLE:Ttetrominotlife]], [[RLE:Pole2rotor]], [[RLE:B36s245replicator]], [[RLE:Pole3rotor]], [[RLE:Pole4rotor]], [[RLE:2x2glider]], [[RLE:Awesoman3000/10p84h2v2]], [[RLE:Lepa]] (hunting version), [[RLE:Bglepa]] (bubblegum version), [[RLE:Pedestrianlifep106gun]], [[RLE:Mazeperiod2]], [[RLE:Briansbrainp3]], [[RLE:Jellyfish]], [[RLE:Sakaw2]] (i was surprised that this works), [[RLE:Awesoman3000/9p7h2v2]], [[RLE:Replicator]] (highlife's), [[RLE:Bgpsgriddleblock]], [[RLE:Tlifegatekid]], [[RLE:2x2linepuffer]], [[RLE:Bgrigel]], [[RLE:2x2stills]], [[RLE:Bgrollor]], [[RLE:Highlifefourboats]], [[RLE:Bomberpredecessor]], [[RLE:Sakasaladc8]] (same thing), [[RLE:Awesoman3000/ant]], [[RLE:Dayandnightbutterfly]], [[RLE:Mazewickstretcher]], [[RLE:Lfodmoon]], [[RLE:2x2period2oscillators]], [[RLE:Awesoman3000/hawk]], [[RLE:Smosmos]] (saka why these line-break tags with wrong-side slashes), [[RLE:Gemsc5648]], [[RLE:Dayandnightbug]], [[RLE:Dayandnightfatbug]], [[RLE:Dayandnightsnail]], [[RLE:Replicatorpredecessor]] (highlife again), [[RLE:Sakacapush]] (you know the drill), [[RLE:Crawfish]], [[RLE:Movepuffer]], [[RLE:Dayandnightflameball]], [[RLE:Drylifeflowergarden]], [[RLE:B36s245spaceships]], [[RLE:Highlifereplicatorxp96]], [[RLE:B36s245-14c300spaceship]], [[RLE:Bgstar]], [[RLE:Sakaphipush]] (i swear, all of saka's rles do this), [[RLE:B36s245gun]], [[RLE:Movestilllifes]], [[RLE:Lifehistoryexample]] (does this count?), [[RLE:Dayandnightmilkbone]], [[RLE:Dayandnightfireball]] (please ab get better names), [[RLE:Jasonsbow]], [[RLE:Dayandnightrocket]], [[RLE:Dayandnightp60fireball]] (...), [[RLE:Dayandnightp120fireball]] (is the fireball like a variable-speed ss or what), [[RLE:Dayandnighttotempole]], [[RLE:B36s245-28c1200spaceship]], [[RLE:Dayandnightp220fireball]] (aaa)
  
: This leaves [[boat with long tail]], [[beehive with nine]], [[broken snake]], [[cis-boat with nine]], [[eater bridge eater]], [[long boat tie ship]], [[long shillelagh]], [[ortho-loaf on table]], [[snake siamese snake]], [[snake with feather]], [[snorkel loop]], [[trans-boat on table]], [[very long shillelagh]], and [[sesquihat]] that still need editing to add the latest syntheses. I could definitely use some help with updating these:
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:::::I probably missed some so great
# decide whether the pname should change to match the article name
 
# new synthesis copied from '''Talk:{name}''' to '''RLE:{pname}_synth''', either updating or replacing any RLE that's currently there
 
# fix "synthesis = {n}" in infobox
 
# add to infobox: <pre>viewerconfig    = [[ THUMBSIZE 2 ]]</pre>
 
# remove Life1.05 and Life1.06 lines (optional)
 
# double-check that article name matches article text and Catagolue link -- there's often something wrong there
 
# add '''RLE:{pname}''' if it's not there already, to make LifeViewer show up instead of an old image file
 
  
: A couple other tasks are admin-only --
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:::::Also [[RLE:1234_synth]] uses b2s23 instead of b3s23 so that's just lovely [[User:Bubblegum|Bubblegum]] ([[User talk:Bubblegum|talk]]) 05:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
# If pname has been changed, delete {old pname}*.rle from LifeWiki server to keep things in synch
 
# If Life1.05 and Life1.06 lines have been removed, delete corresponding files from server. (I'm leaving the "plaintext" (.cells) links, because I'm hoping to generate those automatically for all sub-64x64 patterns currently on the LifeWiki.)
 
# When a good break point is reached, re-run the auto-upload script and collect all the new pattern and synthesis RLE text into a ZIP file for bulk upload.
 
  
: Here again, I'm leaving some broken links to pattern or synth files, which I'm planning to fix fairly soon (by putting the files back in place using the auto-upload script).
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== "Non-Lifelike" CAs -- cleanup suggested ==
  
: This is the kind of project where I'm very unlikely to get everything exactly right. Independent reviews of all this stuff will be greatly appreciated, and just let me know what I've done wrong so far. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 12:33, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
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[https://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=93581#p93581 This post by BokaBB] got me looking at the rule pages that have been collected in the OCA namespace.  [https://www.conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Life-like_cellular_automata Category:Life-like cellular automata] includes several isotropic non-totalistic rules ([[OCA:GlideLife]], [[OCA:Goat Flock]], [[OCA:Just Friends]], [[OCA:Salad]], [[OCA:Snowflakes]], [[OCA:Tlife]], and [[OCA:Wlife]], so far, and I might have missed something.) There seems to be standard wording in all of these saying " ''{Rule R} is a non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton".  But this just plain isn't right:  a non-totalistic CA can't be Life-like.
  
==Special pages broken?==
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The standard wording links to [[Non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton]], which shouldn't really exist because technically there is no such thing. I guess the right name for that article should probably be just [[Non-totalistic cellular automaton]], and "Life-like" should also be removed from [[Isotropic non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton]] and [[Non-isotropic_Life-like_cellular_automaton]] (both the titles and the article text).
I have noticed several oddities in a few of the maintenance pages:
 
* [[Special:BrokenRedirects|Broken redirects]] claims there is an existing page named [[RLE:lobster]] that redirects to a non-existent page named [[RLE:83p7h1v1]], when the opposite is actually true.
 
* [[RLE:Loafer]] is listed in various places (such as [[Special:ShortPages|Short pages]]) despite being in the wrong namespace.
 
* [[ConwayLife.com:About]] is listed as in [[Special:DoubleRedirects|Double redirects]] despite not having any redirects.
 
* [[Special:FewestRevisions|Pages with the fewest revisions]] isn't even close to being correct.
 
* [[Special:UncategorizedPages|Uncategorized pages]] is quite incomplete; I noticed the articles [[Ruler]] and [[Alternating rule]] were not listed even before I added categories to them, and these are almost certainly not the only examples.
 
  
Anyone know what's up with these? [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 23:35, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
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Does anyone have any objection if I do a bunch of editing to fix this, before the problem gets any worse?  Or does someone really want to LifeWiki-officially redefine what "Life-like" means?  The current definition is so widely accepted that it's even [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-like_cellular_automaton on Wikipedia]: "Life-like" implies an outer-totalistic rule, so it's '''much''' more limited than the space of isotropic non-totalistic rules.
  
==Rulespace info for eaters, reflectors, conduits, etc.==
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I'd like to add a couple of new LifeWiki categories (or have someone competent do it for me):  one for "Other Cellular Automata" in general (Life-like '''and''' isotropic NT rules), and one for isotropic NT rules specifically.  At the moment it seems kind of hard to find a category page for all OCA: namespace articles -- you can't just search for "OCA" or "OCA:" (right?)
So lately I've been busy adding isorule parameters to the infoboxes for various patterns. So far I've stuck with oscillators, spaceships, still lifes, and infinite growth patterns, but I'd also like to expand this to other pattern such as conduits which are a bit more ambiguous. For example, the [[sidesnagger]] works in B/S23, but obviously there are no gliders for it to eat. I'm of the opinion that for these patterns we should show the rules they're actually ''useful'' in, since that's what makes them notable in the first place, (though with the possible exception of [[eater 1]] since it's such a small pattern) but I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 18:57, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
: My main thought is that all but the very simplest and lowest-step-size conduits are very close to rule-specific -- useful only in B3/S23. Adding a B8 or an S8 might be one of the few isotropic bits where some conduits would survive the rule switch (?). Even if a particular conduit works in another rule, it's only interesting if a large enough group of conduits works in the alternate rule to make it computationally universal.  (That would probably make it construction-universal, too, but only after someone re-did all the single-channel search work to produce new recipe libraries.)
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If we want to be really brave, we could make the isotropic NT category something like "Iso-NT".  If that caught on -- big "if" -- then there would finally be a short standard way to say "isotropic non-totalistic". Maybe someday people could just say "isont" or "anisont" and expect to be understood.  ("Aniso-NT" would be the equivalent category for "anisotropic non-totalistic", but there doesn't seem to be any point in creating that category since nobody's come up with a rule worth naming in that rulespace yet.)
  
: Anyway, from my point of view the reason why B38/S23 or B3/S238 doesn't get a lot of attention is that there's nothing really new and exciting about those rules to make up for the fact that the rule spec is just that little bit more complicated... pun maybe intended. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 02:04, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
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... If anyone '''does''' have an objection, please suggest something we could do instead! [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 16:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
  
==[[apgsearch]] and [[Catagolue]]==
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: This is probably a bit late, but I think those bunch of edits are a good idea (Which it appears you have not done yet). And yes, I do agree with defining "Life-like" as strictly for Outer-totalistic rules. Nope, you can't just search "OCA" or "OCA:", so yeah, it's currently impossible to find a category with all the OCA rules and nothing more: The "Life-like_cellular_automata" category doesn't include LTL and multistate rules, while the "Cellular_automata" category also lists a bunch of non-rule pages such as the general articles for rulespaces and the lists of rules investigated on Catagolue (which, aren't they obsolete?).
Would anyone be opposed to a reorganization of the information on these two articles? I noticed that a lot of the information in the Catagolue article really applies more to apgsearch rather than the site itself, and therefore might be worth moving. Such a change would be particularly easy to revert if need be, but I'd rather not go through the effort if that's the case, so I'd also like some feedback about that. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 23:32, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
: No opposition here. I wouldn't think anyone would be likely to revert changes to those articles, just the usual quick review to see if the changes happen to serve as a reminder of anything else that should be added. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 02:04, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
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: Back on the definition of "Life-like", the inclusion of IsNT (Isotropic Non Totalistic) rules in the category of Life-like CA on the wiki will probably make new CA-Enthusiasts think that they are included in Life-like CA, which might have an effect on the forum.
  
== Pattern collections ==
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:Also, over on the Discord the standard way to write "Isotropic Non-Totalistic" quicker seems to be "INT", and Heavpoot suggested (somewhat jokingly?) "AINT" for "AnIsotropic Non-Totalistic" (Perhaps "AiNT" is better), or we could just refer to them as "MAP Rules", although yeah, that isn't very good, as MAP includes Isotropic and totalistic rules as well. [[User:Saka|Saka]] ([[User talk:Saka|talk]]) 14:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
  
I just thought to check the LifeWiki pattern collection for outdated links to Mark's database.  There were 165 RLE files with dead links in the comments.  I fixed two of them, one by creating an RLE:{pname}_synth page and one by editing the pattern comments and deleting and re-uploading the file by hand... and then thought, "Nope.  There has to be a better way."
+
:: Not only Discord uses this name - "INT" is also well known on the forums. [[User:Ultimium|Ultimium]] ([[User talk:Ultimium|talk]]) 22:00, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
  
Now I'm just doing a search-and-replace, "http://www.conwaylife.com/ref/mniemiec" instead of "http://home.interserv.com/~mniemiec/", and will ask Nathaniel to re-upload all those files to the server along with the output of the auto-upload script.
+
== Expanding Covered OCA Rules ==
  
Of course, if these _synth files were created when that website was available, a lot of the actual syntheses might be out of date as well. A dynamic endpoint somewhere for reporting the actual latest synthesis for each object would certainly be a step up from the current perpetually out-of-date synthesis files.
+
Does anyone think that having articles for rules beyond Life-Like and Isotropic Non-totalistic should be on here, like Wireworld or Langton's Ant? These would still go under the OCA namespace, obviously. If anyone has any thoughts on this, that would be great. [[User:AforAmpere|AforAmpere]] ([[User talk:AforAmpere|talk]]) 5:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
: As far as I'm concerned, articles for any reasonably well-known rule would be very welcome in the OCA namespace.  Wireworld and Langton's Ant definitely count as good examples.
  
-- On the other hand, there are big advantages to Mark's comprehensive collections of practically every historically known way of constructing each object.  Sometimes you might want a synthesis with a suboptimal number of gliders but better clearance than usual, or might want an incremental construction starting from one half of the still life, or whatever.  Reporting just a single current-best synthesis would lose a lot of that useful information. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 22:25, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
+
: A big reason for inventing the OCA namespace was to provide a place for this kind of information, without accidentally cluttering up the "Life" part of the LifeWiki. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 14:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
  
: The problem of deciding what to do about glider syntheses is still where it was in January. I'm still leaning toward leaving things pretty much as they are until Mark Niemiec's new synthesis database becomes available, and then figuring out how to link directly to the relevant Niemiec synthesis page, for any object that has a LifeWiki article -- and removing those _synth files from the Patterns folder.  Most of the Niemiec-derived _synth files that have been uploaded will probably be subtly out of date when the new version comes out. Anyone have any better ideas?
+
: I would like to contribute to these pages. [[User:Ultimium|Ultimium]] ([[User talk:Ultimium|talk]]) 02:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
  
: In other news, [[User:Dvgrn/Plaintext_files]] documents the 695 new plaintext-format .cells files that are available on the server now. This means that a lot of articles' infoboxes could now be updated to say '''|plaintext        = true''' along with '''|rle              = true'''. If nobody wants to tackle making these several hundred edits manually, I might eventually look into setting up some kind of automated search-and-replace functionality, based on this kind of article list. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 22:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
+
Mmm, a similar discussion took place three years ago, see [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2017#Lists_of_rules]]. Speaking of articles for other cellular automata, how about those red links in the [[list of Generations rules]]? There are a variety of rules, and therefore it will be a huge amount of work if we want to write a page for each. Or should we consider their historical/current significance first? Need Generations experts here. (I dislike red links...Wait, I shouldn't show personal feelings here.) [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 16:50, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
  
:: I noticed once again that there are quite a few patterns with capitalization in their names, most of which ([http://www.conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=RLE:P52G3to4&action=history with a few exceptions]) were created by [[User:Entity Valkyrie]]. Even [[RLE:ModelD]] is still in that list despite having been deleted and moved over a week ago, so those should probably be fixed. Something more confusing, though, is that certain small patterns (such as [[44P14]] and [[44P12.3]]) were labeled as being too large despite easily fitting within the 64&times;100 limit. What's up with that?
+
:: Personal feelings?  Nah, that's just on the actual article pages.  I really like red links, because they encourage other people to do documentation work... It would make sense to me to add a page for each of the major Generations rules in the [http://psoup.math.wisc.edu/mcell/download.html old MCell 4.20 collection], just for starters. There's usually some descriptive text that could be lifted out of Mirek's representative {RULENAME}.mcl file, as a starting point.
  
:: As for adding these to the infoboxes, I'll probably get to that eventually but I'm a bit too busy at the moment. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 23:14, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
+
:: The named Generations rules in the MCell pattern collection are Banners, Bombers, Brain 6, Brian's Brain, Burst, BurstII, Caterpillars, Chenille, Ebb&Flow, Ebb&FlowII, Faders, Fireworks, Frogs, Glisserati, Nova, Rake, SediMental, Snake, Spirals, StarWars, Sticks, Swirl, Transers, TransersII, Wanderers, and Worms. There's also an "Other Rules" folder, but it has just a couple of patterns in it -- one in the Star Wars family, and an unnamed explosive one (345/24/25) with a side-effect production of some Rule-90-ish behavior. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
  
::: Many thanks for the review. I believe I've patched all the remaining instances of pnames with capital letters: 68p16.cells/.rle, 76p8.cells/.rle, 113p18.cells/.rle, 209p8.cells/.rle, p130shuttle2.cells/.rle, l156reactions.rle, p24lwss.rle, and p52g3to4.rle.  Obviously in the future the auto-upload script should check for capital letters and complain.
+
::: Right, I've made attempts to write for [[Star Wars]]. It still needs some content about various constructions before releasing to the OCA namespace, but I lack time now. (EDIT: I've released it on June 22, further compositions welcome!) [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 03:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
  
::: I haven't yet looked into why a few small patterns didn't get .cells files created properly. Will figure it out and fix that bug along with adding the capitalization check. That one isn't too worrisome -- anything that got missed in the first round we should be able to pick up on the next auto-upload. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 19:54, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
+
By the way, putting a somewhat off-topic request here: can we integrate a LifeViewer equipped with command RANDOMIZE in Template:Rule? The command is for generating a random 64×64 soup upon launching the viewer (or refreshing the page):
 +
{{EmbedViewer
 +
|rle = x = 0, y = 0, rule = B3/S23
 +
!
 +
|viewerconfig = #C [[ RANDOMIZE THUMBLAUNCH OFF THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 2 ]]
 +
|caption = An example soup in rule B3/S23
 +
}}
 +
It works well with 2-state rules. For rules with more states, like Generations, more commands is needed to specify which state to use. [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 06:05, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
  
:::: The missing small files that were flagged as "too big" seem to have been mostly due to patterns with no header lines in the RLE namespace. I think I've fixed all of those now.  A few such files managed to get themselves uploaded to the LifeWiki server, but the auto-upload script now reports those when it sees them, so I think those are all cleaned up now also.
+
== Criteria for notable INT rules ==
  
:::: As before, if anyone wants to add "plaintext = true" to the many articles where that's missing, please go right ahead.  The latest auto-upload script report has been added to [[User:Dvgrn/Plaintext files]], so the dump of newly added .cells files there can be used as a checklist.  There's also the option of adding plaintext file links to embedded viewers as appropriate. I did a couple of samples, e.g., [[68P9]] -- it's pretty easy.  It should always be just a matter of adding this to the caption:
+
The discussion at [[LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2019#Non-notable isotropic rules]] inspired me to move OCA:Wlife to User:Evin/Wlife. Previously the reason for proposed deletion was "non-notable rule; forum thread only has 9 posts in total". Sounds reasonable, right?
<pre>[http://www.conwaylife.com/patterns/{pname}.rle RLE format]
 
[http://www.conwaylife.com/patterns/{pname}.cells Plaintext format]<br /></pre>
 
:::: Maybe this is something that should be done with a template, to make things even easier?
 
  
:::: The script now also checks for pnames with uppercase letters and complains about that. I don't think there are any of those at the moment. If anyone sees other problems or oddities that the auto-upload script should be catching but isn't, or if there are any other surveys or reports that it should do while it's running through all the articles anyway, please make suggestions here. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:09, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
+
But then here come the questions. Can we develop some universal criteria for a section in [[LifeWiki:Notability]] about an INT rule? Which rule warrants an article on OCA namespace, and which rule is at most qualified for a User subpage? Rules differ greatly in behaviour and potential for interesting technology, but still I think "Well-explored syntheses", "Turing-complete", "Orthogonoid/Demonoid engineered explicitly", or something along these lines, may suffice for the judgement.
  
::::: I just modified [[Template:EmbedViewer]] to link to the RLE and Plaintext automatically. The biggest problem with this, of course, is the larger patterns don't have a plaintext file. I'm not sure how to elegantly deal with this, unless there's a way to make it read the RLE header and find the pattern size or something. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 19:55, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
+
Related, should we encourage users to write about their custom INT rule ''in their User subpage first'', and move it to the official OCA namespace after reaching a consensus that it is well-developed and notable enough according to some guideline? [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 02:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
  
== Help Wanted with templates and general review ==
+
: I don't think that a rule has to be Turing-complete and have a Orthogonoid/demonoid to be interesting / to warrant their own wiki page, but that's just my opinion. Making a universal definition for interesting INT rules will be hard, as is making a strict definition of interesting anything. But if we do make one, maybe we could judge the rule by it's activity as well? Number of active explorers, number of (useful / constructive) posts in the rule's thread (that are related to the rule, not off-topic chatting), that kind of stuff. One problem I can see with that approach, however, is that some genuinely interesting rules do get unnoticed, but maybe that's outside the scope of this... discussion?
  
Here are three problems that I'd like to fix. I could probably track down the necessary template changes myself, eventually, but I'd like to have expert advice if I can get it. Both of these items have been sorta kinda mentioned on the Tiki Bar before, fairly recently:
+
:On the last part, yeah, I think that's a good idea. Related to that, is the wiki O.K.a.y. with a bunch of pages under the userspace? We already have a good amount, and if we encourage that we'll have some more. Also, maybe encourage users to write a page under their username if they think their rule is interesting enough (Maybe that will slightly decrease the number of user subpages?).
  
1. I think '''THUMBSIZE 2''' should be the default for all infobox LifeViewers.  I keep adding '''#C [​[ THUMBSIZE 2 ]]''' to get infobox pattern frames back to the right size.  There seem to be hundreds of these '''THUMBSIZE 2''' specifications by now, but looking through a bunch of new aircraft-carrier-themed still lifes that AwesoMan3000 added recently (see links a few paragraphs up)... those all need the same addition done to them, and there are dozens or hundreds more existing articles that still have the same problem.  The [http://lazyslug.no-ip.biz/lifeview/plugin/suppress.html '''SUPPRESS''' command] should follow '''THUMBSIZE 2''', so that the relatively few viewerconfigs that specify '''THUMBSIZE 3''' won't start throwing errors after the change is made.
+
:I don't think we should have strict guidelines but rather a board / panel of people that will decide if a rule warrants a wiki page.
  
2. As of this morning, Nathaniel has officially removed the Life 1.05 and Life 1.06 patterns from the LifeWiki patterns directory.  That means the infobox template probably ought to be adjusted to stop showing those links. We could remove "'''|life105 = true // |life106 = true'''" from all the articles that have those infobox parameters instead, but only if someone wants to get a leg up on entry into the 10,000 Club.
+
:EDIT: I forgot, I do think that the current Wlife page is a bit too empty to be in the official&trade; OCA namespace. [[User:Saka|Saka]] ([[User talk:Saka|talk]]) 04:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
  
The Life 1.0x patterns are still on the server, but [http://conwaylife.com/patterns/lif_pattern_backup.zip hidden in a ZIP file].  It seems to me that going forward, the way to make patterns available in non-standard non-RLE formats will be to publish conversion scripts that work on the contents of all.zip.
+
:: Well, the activity of a rule is indeed another possible consideration, though more subjective. Besides quantity, explorers and posts are also of different quality, which is more related to the rule's ''known'' interestingness. Also time is an important factor here, as understandings usually cumulate over time. (Of course, given infinite time and adequate utilities, genuinely interesting rules are bound to be realized and explored in-depth, eventually warranting an OCA article.)
  
Anyway, there are some places in the infobox template documentation and other docs that mention Life 1.0x, which I can track down and fix eventually if no one else gets to it first.
+
:: Pages under User namespace are not offical, they cannot be found in the simple search on the main page unless you add "User:". They record semi-interesting stuff with potential to be officially notable. For notable rules this can be a primary filter. But wait, what if someone wants to contribute to a rule under someone else's user space?
  
3. Let's get rid of that dependency where you have to have '''rle = true''' or '''nofile = true''' before LifeViewer will show up -- as per [http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2298&p=68135#p68135 Nathaniel's recent advice]. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:51, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
+
:: If the secondary filter for notable rules were to be a group of people, there could sometimes be conflicts of intererst and other complex issues. [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 07:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
  
: Okay, Nathaniel has done a bulk upload of 387 RLE files, collected by the auto-upload script for every article in the main namespace that referenced a pname and had RLE:{pname} and/or RLE:{pname}_synth articles in the RLE: namespace. That means that as of today, there should no longer be any broken RLE pattern download links (the ones that show up when you say '''rle = true''' in the infobox).
+
: Sorry for non-constructive comments, but well-developed syntheses seems like a personal bias rather than an actual factor of rules' interestingness. Others seems good enough to me. [[User:Ultimium|Ultimium]] ([[User talk:Ultimium|talk]]) 11:01, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
  
: There shouldn't be a lot of broken '''synthesisRLE = true''' links, either, but those might happen if somebody set that flag to true but then didn't create the RLE:{pname}_synth article.
+
== 2-state rule cleanup ==
  
: I'd suggest that people shouldn't go too wild uploading new glider syntheses, until the next version of Mark Niemiec's database comes out -- and maybe not even then. It would be nice to come up with direct dynamic links to synthesis patterns on Catagolue and/or in Mark's database, so that we don't always have slightly antiquated information copied from those places and uploaded to the LifeWiki pattern collection, where they're kind of hard to keep up to date.
+
Yet another discussion on the non-Life part of the wiki... I noticed that User:Ian07 [https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Special:Log?type=delete&user=Ian07&page=&wpdate=2020-02-15&tagfilter=&subtype= deleted] a few pages (Tq6, Movingstrings and Lotsofdots) under Rule namespace on Feb 15 due to "2-state rule, no ruletable needed".  
  
: I guess the next item to tackle is automatic generation of the '''plaintext = true''' .cells files for every article about a pattern that's 64x64 or smaller (let's arbitrarily say). Does anyone have suggestions for other checks and auto-updates that the uploader script might be able to accomplish? [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 04:25, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
+
At the time of writing there are [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=100&offset=0&profile=all&search=%22num_states%3D2%22 73] pages with 2-state range-1 rules on a 2-dimensional square grid. Since they can all be described with MAP strings, I suggest discarding these pages like the previous examples. We need to do the following:
  
:: @Ian07:  Wow, that was a lot of fast Life 1.0x cleanup work. Thank you! I'll see if I can get a bulk upload done for .cells format soon, for all sufficiently small patterns (which is most of them). Then the LifeWiki will suddenly be following a standard policy on pattern formats, fairly universally across all articles. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 20:49, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
+
#Look into the rule tables and figure out their MAP strings,
 +
#Submit the rule names as aliases of the MAP strings, or edit the (if) very few instances mentioning the <s>manes</s> names on the forums.
  
: I've just added THUMBSIZE 2 as a [[Template:LifeViewer config/default|default option for the viewers]] to save myself some trouble. As for item #3 in your list, the solution probably in [[Template:InfoboxStart]] though I'd rather leave that to someone more experienced with templates. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 22:12, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
+
Does anyone want to help? [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 15:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
  
:: Things are starting to look pretty good for plaintext support on LifeWiki. The latest auto-upload report is [[User:Dvgrn/Plaintext_files|here]]. There are still a few weird exceptions getting reported, but for the most part I can happily ignore them now.
+
:: Here are a couple of initial contributions:
 +
::: 1) For a few of these rules, the thing that makes them rule-table-worthy might be not the rule but the associated icons.  HexLife and Pentagonhood are examples, I think.
 +
::: 2) I ''think'' that the "figure out the MAP strings" part can be done fairly simply with a version of [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=&p=58143#p58143 this MAPper Lua script], by installing each rule in Golly, running the script, and copying out the reported MAP string.
 +
:: Thanks for working on this!  Rule namespace maintenance is a big job for one person, but hopefully many hands can help lighten the work. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 18:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::: Once the aliases are submitted LifeViewer will prefer them to any Rule namespace definition. Regarding Icons: at some stage I'll add support for Icons but it won't be any time soon. For Hex neighbourhood rules there is a [[MAP]] format that supports these and will cause LifeViewer to use hexagonal cell display. There's also a VN MAP format but visually it uses square cells like Moore. Help->Info->Pattern will let you know whether LifeViewer is using a Rule namespace definition (there will be a Type of @TABLE or @TREE if so). [[User:Rowett|Chris Rowett]] ([[User talk:Rowett|talk]]) 03:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
  
:: I'm vaguely considering making some custom plaintext files for special-case patterns like the bumpers and bouncers, where there are extra gliders added for animation purposes that happen to increase the bounding box beyond the 64x100 limit. It seems reasonable to upload plaintext versions without the extra gliders for those cases.
+
:::: Good. Besides a spelling fix, I have a few minor questions:
 +
:::: Is there a page which lists those aliases, so that one can search (with Ctrl+F) through/copy them?
 +
:::: The rule tables were added to LifeWiki in an "auto-import project". Where can I see the details of the project? Can it be modified so that 2-state rules are not collected?
 +
:::: Do we need to archive the references on the rule pages? [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 06:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
  
:: That will give me an excuse to go through the report and make sure there aren't any other odd cases where patterns are mysteriously getting missed, even though they should be small enough for a plaintext version. I think that's not a problem any more, but I haven't triple-checked. If anyone sees leftover stuff that the auto-upload script still isn't handling correctly, please let me know. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 23:17, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
+
::::: You can see the list of aliases in LifeViewer with Help->Aliases. While the Help is displayed pressing Ctrl-C copies the topic to the clipboard.
 +
::::: For the auto-import project [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] wrote the script to scan the forums and find the rules. I then used the output from this to create the required rule definitions (adding @TREE sections where missing) which he then uploaded to the Rule namespace. Built-in rules (like B3/S23 etc) and existing LifeViewer aliases were filtered out. [[User:Rowett|Chris Rowett]] ([[User talk:Rowett|talk]]) 09:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
  
== Replacing images with animated viewers ==
+
: Re: auto-import scripts --
 +
: That project was a one-time effort, and nobody is currently planning on ever running [https://github.com/dvgrn/b3s23life/tree/master/conwaylife-scrapers those scripts] again.  They were a combination of one-off Python scraper scripts and some Selenium automation trickery.  From now on, as new rules get created, there will be a strong incentive for anyone posting new-rule patterns to the forums, to just throw a copy immediately into the Rule namespace, so that LifeViewer can display those patterns.  So -- at least according to my theory -- there's no need to run any further automated surveys to try to pick up new rules posted on the forums.  We'd get a lot of duplication and possible conflict headaches, for no obvious benefit.
 +
: A survey that '''could''' be done is to run back through old posts and look for old-style rule tables.  There are a few of those that were missed because they don't have the @TABLE keyword at the top of the code block.  But I think most of the commonly used rules have long since been converted to @TABLE format, so this would just pick up a few out-of-fashion rules from the early 2010s.
 +
: The auto-import script that _is_ run semi-regularly, every month or two, is the one that takes new embedded and infobox patterns from the RLE namespace and turns them into commented patterns added to the all.zip LifeWiki pattern collection. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
  
I just started on a project to add more animated viewers in place of static images on the wiki. However, I've already started running into some problems, particularly with the [[pushalong]]s in the [[114P6H1V0]] article. I already created an [[RLE:114p6h1v0pushalong]], but I'm not sure how exactly the comments in the '''RLE:pname''' page get translated to the actual files, especially since files like [http://www.conwaylife.com/patterns/block.rle <tt>block.rle</tt>] have comments that aren't in the RLE namespace. I'm worried that I'll unintentionally remove said information from the wiki's pattern collection if I'm not careful.
+
:Alright, I'm done. Here's the list of aliases I created:
 +
*Bigship - B2ei3eiqry4ny5ajkr/S23ajkr4jnry5inq
 +
*WolfVN-W50_B14_S34V - B2an3cjr4acij5nqy6ak/S2cn3cqy4cny5e
 +
*B2ex3-lS23 - B2en3-a/S23
 +
*randomnn - MAPA1Az8wMAqgAAUADAAAAAAAAAgMAAAIAAgICAwAAAgAAAAAAAiACqAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAIgAgACAgIAAAACAAA
 +
*water - MAPABAbrwAA//8AQltdAAD+/8Aa/f8AAP//YgD//wAA//8AAP//QAD//wBA//8AAP/fAgD3+wKA//8AIPZ/AAD//w
 +
*B45_S034_N21 - B2ei3-ce4cny/S02-cn3cinqy4c
 +
*HexLife (Saka) - B3o/S234-o6
 +
*rules6 - MAPAgl/+0Ug/fVAIv/9AADdPwDi9/uAQft5qIDtlQgA/b8gAP//AAD//wAQv/8AAP7+AhD/+gAA/f8EAv//AID//w
 +
*x-rule - MAPBSB64CCTqARFBImEADAGBSCTgICTSIAAADCFCSTAAAANAMEUBCKEBchCE00YAE3IACSFACCIQQDIIF4UIIAGSA
 +
*pentagonhood - MAPEWYRZmaIZogRZhFmZohmiGaIZoiIAIgAZohmiIgAiAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB
 +
*B578_S4567_N31 - B3-ce4aikqtwz5e/S2-cn3-ce4cny5e
  
I'm thinking it might be better for now to just focus on the infobox images and not worry about the rest of the article, especially considering the images in the article have colors and arrows and other things which might be lost with an animated viewer. I'd be perfectly fine with [[RLE:114p6h1v0pushalong]] being deleted for the time being so it doesn't replace [http://www.conwaylife.com/patterns/114p6h1v0pushalong.rle <tt>114p6h1v0pushalong.rle</tt>] in the next bulk upload.
+
:Notes:
 +
*B45_S034_N21 was anisotropic as a .rule file, but intended to be isotropic.
 +
*The original name of HexLife (Saka) was just HexLife.
 +
*B578_S4567_N31 simply did not work as intended. The inferred rule preserves everything described except the r-pentomino, which should just be an error in the original. I don't know.
  
Even then, though, as with the [[Block]] example above, there's still comments in the original files that may or may not be overwritten since I don't know how bulk uploads work. I'd basically just like to know what precautions to take to make sure I don't break anything with this project before I proceed. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 16:06, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
+
:I'd say HexLife (Saka) and pentagonhood should stay where they are due to their @ICONS sections and everything else could be cleaned up. <br />
 +
:Also hey, did you know you can customise your signature? <span style="font-family:Palatino,serif">[[User:Bubblegum|<span style="color:#00BFFF">bubblegum</span>]]-[[User_talk:Bubblegum|<span style="color:#BF7FFF">talk</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Bubblegum|<span style="color:#FF7FFF">contribs</span>]]</span> <span style="font-family:Palatino,serif">00:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)</span>
  
: All good questions.  The main answer is that the auto-upload script is designed so that it never overwrites any files that are already on the LifeWiki server, so you don't have to worry about overwriting anything.  Comments in block.rle are safe, and the addition of [[RLE:114p6h1v0pushalong]] won't damage the existing uploaded file on the server.
+
== Topics article suggestion ==
  
: Now, if we deleted 114p6h1v0pushalong.rle from the server, and added these two comment lines at the top of [[RLE:114p6h1v0pushalong]] --
+
Some thread-digging found a [https://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25135#p25135 post] listing the topics in Game of Life. Anyone putting it on the LifeWiki? I have little time on this. [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 06:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
  
<pre>#O Hartmut Holzwart
+
: It would be really interesting to try to come up with a list of all of the esoteric sub-fields of Conway's Life that have been studied over the last five decades, including whatever links and references are available for each topic.  OCA topics should have their own list, no doubt, for stuff like record-breaking RROs, Spaceships Made of Spaceships, the 5S project, micro-Orthogonoids, etc., etc.
#C A pushalong for the c/6 orthogonal period 6 spaceship 114P6H1V0.</pre>
 
  
: - then the auto-upload script would regenerate a fairly close copy of the file that we deleted. The #N line would be a little different since the default is now {pname}.rle, and the script produces two URL lines instead of just one: a link to the article followed by a direct link to the (future location of the) file itself on the LifeWiki server.
+
: Let's see, here's [https://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17109#p17109 one more list for Conway's Life] to be integrated. Also two more lists of topics have now been cleaned up a bit and dropped in [[User:Dvgrn/Life_Topics]]. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 20:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
  
: So far I've always looked through the RLE files produced by the script, and hand-edited anything that didn't come out quite right -- order of comment lines, etc. That's probably a tradition that I'll continue, so that's another line of defense against accidental damage. With any luck the next run won't be quite so much work, as long as no one goes back to uploading new headerless RLE or other nonstandard stuff that the script doesn't know how to clean up.
+
:: That's a wonderful toplevel design! Actually the list in my quote was adapted from that in yours. By"LLLS" in volume VII it means LSSS, right? Also, where would [https://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3942 Project von Neumann] and existing tutorials on LifeWiki go in this scheme? [[User:GUYTU6J|GUYTU6J]] ([[User talk:GUYTU6J|talk]]) 03:44, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
  
: See also [[User_talk:AwesoMan3000#Standardization_of_comment_lines]] for a summary of what should, or could, still be included in comment lines, versus what is auto-generatedMaybe after that summary gets a good trial run, I can migrate it into the actual documentationIt will be strange and wonderful for a new LifeWiki editor to actually have a reasonable way to learn how to add new articles with associated LifeViewer-displayed patterns... the docs have been partly stuck in 2009 ever since, well, 2009 I suppose! [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 04:07, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
+
::: Ha, yes, LLLS is a typo, now fixedProject von Neumann hasn't progressed far enough yet to deserve a place on the list, probably.  Maybe give it a few more yearsI at least won't be spending time on it until the Life textbook is all wrapped up and out the door.
  
:: One more detail that isn't clear from the above:
+
::: Good suggestion on the tutorials.  I've gone through the outline and added a few items, and added links to tutorials when they're available. Will try to go back and annotate everything else that's mentioned in the outline, a volume at a time... might take a while.
  
:: The auto-upload script will automatically generate a slightly nonstandard #O line including both the discoverer and the discoveryear from the infobox -- like
+
Except for "Volume 1", which will actually become a generally-available PDF sometime in 2021, I suppose the outline is kind of heavy on specific patterns and light on general theory.  Maybe the "list of topics" should really be an article, separate from my "outline of explanations of large constructions" (which probably doesn't rate an article).  As I add more "volumes", I guess some of the later ones get more into covering higher-level topics, but it's probably a confusing way to organize things for a general audience. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 12:40, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
  
<pre>#O Paul Tooke, 2008</pre>
+
== Embedded-viewer variant collections ==
  
:: for the 114p6h1v0 article.  But that only works for patterns that have infoboxes.  Other patterns may also have pnames, but only show up in embedded viewers in some other article. In those cases the script can't be sure that the discoverer or discoveryear will be correct, so it will just leave that optional line out.
+
I just tried some experiments with using embedded viewers floating to left, right and center, in the [[Fx77]] article.
  
:: Theoretically we could invent some standard way to include attributes in an embedded viewer template to convey that information. But since those attributes aren't actually used by LifeViewer it seems just as easy to make a habit of adding a comment line to the RLE.
+
It looks like it's always going to be a little tricky to get this kind of viewer stamp collection to flow correctly on the page, cooperating with the infobox -- at least, unless someone can put together some very very clever templates. It seems to be far beyond my web layout skills.
  
:: For example, adding "#O Hartmut Holzwart, May 2009" to [[RLE:114p6h1v0pushalong]] would convey slightly more information (month as well as year) than the auto-upload script manages to collect for main-article patterns. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 04:19, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
+
I found that the old trick of adding <pre><div style="clear:both;"> ... </div></pre> '''almost''' worked well for flow control -- for example, to force the centered Fx77+R64 to drop below the two Hersrch Fx77 variants, Fx77S and Fx77SW.  This looks okay on a small laptop screen, but produces ridiculous amounts of whitespace on a larger monitor, so I removed it.  The clear:both trick is particularly unwieldy when a pattern has a very lengthy infobox, because all the following text drops below the entire infobox -- not just below the most recent embedded viewers.
  
::: Just looked over the first batch of patterns added to the RLE namespace for the convert-static-images-to-LifeViewer project. Everything looks pretty workable. I think I'll adjust the auto-upload script to skip the generation of an #O line if there's one in the RLE already. Usually what's in the RLE will be a more specific date than what the script can produce from the discoveryear parameter.
+
Also, it seems as if I often get stuck having just one left-aligned, one right-aligned, and one center-aligned embedded-viewer thumbnail. I'm thinking that there are a number of medium-sized stamp collections that it would be good to get into LifeWiki articles, e.g., maybe representatives of the sixteen classes of glider timing adjustment circuits. I've never gotten a midsized collection like that to look any good on multiple monitors, but maybe if they all just float left with THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 3 in LifeViewer, that will be about the best we can do?
  
::: Maybe I should change the script to find the "name" parameter if there is one, and use that instead of '''{pname}.rle''' in the #N line?  It's kind of weird having ".rle" as part of the defined name.  The problem is, there isn't a '''name=''' line in embedded viewers, but there is a '''pname=''' line, and I wanted some information in that first line that could be collected consistently. (?)
+
I did find that captions could be improved by centering with <pre><div style="text-align:center;">first-line caption<br /><br />extended-caption<br /><br /></div></pre>Does that look tolerable to everyone else?  Unless this is added, EmbedViewers with '''position=center''' will have centered caption text, but '''position=left''' and '''position=right''' EmbedViewer captions will both have left-justified text, which doesn't look so good.  The automatically-added last two lines still end up left-justified in those two cases, unfortunately; I didn't attempt to fix that for the Fx77 article.
  
::: The only other thing I noticed offhand is that a few RLE files ended up getting comment lines with links: for example, [[RLE:151p3h1v0]] has
+
In general, if anyone has better suggestions for dealing with page flow issues like these, please let me know! [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 15:51, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
  
<pre>#C http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=233P3H1V0</pre>
+
==Link to Discord server on navbar?==
 +
So today ApChrKey joined and said something about how the invite link was really hard to find. It is on [[LifeWiki:Life_links|links]] but at the very bottom. (I don't know how that affects it but whatever) Macbi suggested that we could put it up top on the navbar or whatever it's called. Given that we already have a way to cite it I don't see why we can't have a direct way to access it. [[User:Bubblegum|Bubblegum]] ([[User talk:Bubblegum|talk]]) 22:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
  
::: There's a shorter form that works just as well:
+
== Time to delete [[Template:LinkWeisstein]]? ==
  
<pre>http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/233P3H1V0</pre>
+
At this point, I think it's unlikely that the site is going to be updated so that this template can be re-enabled. As it stands, all this template does is produce an ugly piece of whitespace in articles such as [[toad]]. Any objections to deleting it? (note that I can semi-automatically remove all the occurrences beforehand with AutoWikiBrowser) [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 16:40, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
  
::: But really I don't think there's any need to add article or pattern links to the RLE namespace.  They'll get generated and added automatically by the auto-upload script.  If you're actually looking at an RLE file in the RLE namespace, and wondering which article it goes with, then it's pretty quick to click the "What links here" link in the sidebar to find that out, instead of copying and pasting part of a comment line.
+
== Excessive barberpole articles ==
  
::: Based on experience so far, does there seem to be anything else that really ought to be adjusted for this whole conversion / auto-upload process? [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 22:54, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
+
In light of the recent [https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?limit=500&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Bubblegum&namespace=&tagfilter=&start=2020-10-12&end=2020-10-12 merging] of [[Template:Vessel]] articles, we should probably consider merging some of the larger [[barberpole]]s as well, as most people seem to agree that going up to [[quindecapole]] is pretty excessive. However, this raises the question of what the new cutoff point should be. I'd say we should keep at least everything up to [[heptapole]], since all of those have shown up naturally. Note that although [[duodecapole]] does not have any sample soups in any symmetry, [[tredecapole]] does, making that the largest semi-natural barberpole. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 14:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 
 
::: Oh, one more minor thing:  looking at LifeWiki articles with lots of LifeViewers on them, I'm starting to think that there might be such a thing as too much animation sometimes. If the infobox has an animated spaceship or oscillator in it, it might make sense to leave out AUTOSTART on (some?) embedded viewers in the actual article.  It can be nice to have something on the page that ''isn't'' moving -- or to be able to open in LifeViewer and step through a pattern one tick at a time, without having to disable AUTOSTART first. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 23:12, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I haven't had any other problems so far, though of course I've only just started this project and have only gotten through around 1% of all the articles. As for the comment lines in RLEs, I'll try and be more consistent with them from here on out. (will double-check the ones I've already made to see if there's anything that should be added or removed) And yeah, I do agree that too many auto-started viewers looks very cluttered, so here's a rule of thumb I'm probably going to use: there should be no more than three AUTOSTART viewers in close proximity to each other. Thoughts? [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 23:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Fine by me.  I've been thinking two animated viewers at once is usually enough action, but it depends on the article. Just maybe something to keep in mind a little bit. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 01:33, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Arbitrary adjective names ==
 
 
 
Per [http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=71523#p71523 this forum post], I've removed every Arbitrary Adjective Name™ I could find on the wiki and moved it to a more easily-recognizable name (article text has also been properly updated to match title). Here's the list of files that need to be deleted as a result:
 
    absurdlylongboat.rle
 
    absurdlylongship.rle
 
    absurdlylongsnake.rle
 
    boatwithextralongtail.rle
 
    extralongbarge.rle
 
    extralongboat.rle
 
    extralongcanoe.rle
 
    extralonghookwithtail.rle
 
    extralongintegral.rle
 
    extralongshillelagh.rle
 
    extralongship.rle
 
    extralongsnake.rle
 
    extralongsnake_synth.rle
 
    extralongtubshillelagh.rle
 
    ludicrouslylongboat.rle
 
    ludicrouslylongship.rle
 
    remarkablylongboat.rle
 
    remarkablylongcanoe.rle
 
    remarkablylonghookwithtail.rle
 
    remarkablylongshillelagh.rle
 
    remarkablylongship.rle
 
    remarkablylongsnake.rle
 
    remarkablylongsnake_synth.rle
 
    ridiculouslylongboat.rle
 
    ridiculouslylongship.rle
 
    stupidlylongboat.rle
 
    stupidlylongship.rle
 
    terriblylongboat.rle
 
    terriblylongship.rle
 
    terriblylongsnake.rle
 
 
 
[[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 17:12, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I think the above are all cleaned up correctly now, as far as uploaded patterns getting deleted.  There was also a file out there called "extraextralongsnake_synth.rle" which turned out to have the Niemiec synthesis file for long^4 snake rather than long^5 snake. (Yup, getting rid of the extra and very and Arbitrary adjectives in favor of a simple long count still seems like a good simplification.)
 
 
 
: The _synth files are still troublesome in general, because the files that are already out there often have generic links to the Niemiec database search page, rather than to the actual file.  And of course on that database search page, the way you'd find a long^5 snake or whatever is actually by looking up "extra extra long snake"... so there's some possibility that the cleanup of "extra" creates some new confusion while reducing some other old confusion.
 
 
 
: Anyway, I'd still recommend not starting any kind of comprehensive review of _synth files until the new version of Niemiec's database becomes available.
 
 
 
: The second half of this cleanup will require re-running the auto-upload script, to get the .rle and .cells versions of all these files back onto the server with their new longN* names. I'm planning to wait until at least the end of this week before tackling that job. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 22:27, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Upload of new RLE and plaintext files should be done now.  Some of these names are still preserved as redirects, like [[Stupidly long boat]] and also as an alternate name given in the text of the article. I may eventually be inspired to track down all these leftovers and clean them up, but for now I'm kind of worn out from wrestling with the auto-upload script.  There's always another degenerate case that hasn't been handled yet... [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 14:45, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Non-notable isotropic rules==
 
Many pages on isotropic non-totalistic rules have been proposed for deletion. It seems that some users (myself included) have moved articles on such rules to their namespace, such as [http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/User:AwesoMan3000/Goat_Flock here]. This seems to be an ongoing project and deserves discussion here.
 
 
 
Should I adopt salad or would someone else like it? I have a couple collections of ships that I’d like to move to the page should it be adopted. [[User:Moosey|Moosey]] ([[User talk:Moosey|talk]]) 17:15, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I reverted the speedy deletion tag on [[Goat Flock]] because there's a wiki link from the [https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2in3s123a Catagolue rule page] which originates from the [https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/catagolue/blob/master/initialise/all-rules.txt#L120 rule list].
 
 
 
: If there's still a consensus that the main namespace redirect should be deleted, then the rule list would need to be updated with 'Goat_Flock' replaced with 'User:AwesoMan3000/Goat_Flock' after the exclamation mark on line 120. [[User:Calcyman|Calcyman]] ([[User talk:Calcyman|talk]]) 09:53, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I like the idea of having some space on the LifeWiki for people to document their favorite isotropic rule discoveries.  It makes sense to me that all of these could go somewhere other than the main namespace, just to keep things that are spaceships in other rules from getting mixed up with Conway's Life spaceships, and so on.  The User namespace seems like a fine place for isotropic rule pages, along the lines of Moosey's suggestion.
 
 
 
:: But sometimes it's hard to know who should "claim" a rule -- it doesn't necessarily make sense for any particular user to start a page, and yet it's clear that a page should be started.  Is there any harm in inventing a new namespace for this purpose?  Would anything be wrong with [[Isotropic:Goat Flock]], for example? [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 13:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: @dvgrn: good idea. It would prevent too much clutter in the main namespace without making anyone frustrated about the fact that <nowiki>[insert frustration here]</nowiki> happened.
 
 
 
::: who can make new namespaces? [[User:Moosey|Moosey]] ([[User talk:Moosey|talk]]) 14:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I agree with the namespace idea. Perhaps we could name it something like "OCA" so we could move existing articles such as [[HighLife]] there. As for specific patterns, I'd suggest making them subpages of their native rules, e.g. [[OCA:HighLife/Bomber]] so they don't get mistaken as rules. Of course, the notability guidelines should still apply here, or else this will become way too hard to maintain. [[User:Ian07|Ian07]] ([[User talk:Ian07|talk]]) 14:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I agree with all of Ian07's suggestions above: using OCA for the namespace, with rule pages (except for CGoL) in that namespace, and rule-specific patterns as subpages of their rules. [[User:Calcyman|Calcyman]] ([[User talk:Calcyman|talk]]) 17:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: @Moosey (and everyone else) -- based on a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces very small amount of Googling], officially adding a new namespace to the LifeWiki namespace dropdown list is a Nathaniel-only change on the server side. I tried moving the "LifeHistory" article to [[OCA:LifeHistory]] as an experiment; the move was technically successful, but I think the article is just called "OCA:LifeHistory" and it's still in the main namespace.
 
 
 
::::: I've sent a request to Nathaniel. I or somebody will post an update here if and when "OCA" becomes an official namespace. Until then there's probably no point in trying to move any more OCA pages. [[User:Dvgrn|Dvgrn]] ([[User talk:Dvgrn|talk]]) 19:34, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 14:11, 20 October 2020

Taka Tiki Break

Welcome, one and all, to the Tiki bar! This page is used to discuss the technical issues, policies, and operations of the LifeWiki. Or just sit down, relax, and enjoy a cocktail.

Welcome to the Tiki bar

Wikipedia has the Village pump, Wiktionary has the Beer parlour, but the LifeWiki's lacked a central page for discussion so far other than User talk:Nathaniel. So I took the liberty to create the Tiki bar to facilitate discussion in a friendly and relaxed atmosphere. Welcome! Apple Bottom (talk) 11:09, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Archived discussions

Note: active discussions are never archived while still active.

CiteDiscord template?

Was thinking about this since User:Dvgrn added a Discord citation to the Max article. Would there be any objections to a template to cite the Conwaylife Lounge Discord server? It is a public server, after all, and there have been quite a few notable discoveries and developments announced there over the years. Ian07 (talk) 17:53, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I'd also like a Templates Cheat Sheet page under How to Contribute somewhere, probably just a section in Help:Templates. There are examples there of how to use some templates, but for many of them I currently just go hunting around randomly in articles until I find a good example of how it's used, and then copy and modify that. As the number of templates increases, this is starting to seem more and more, um, suboptimal. Dvgrn (talk) 15:06, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
I know it's been two months, but Template:CiteDiscord is now up and running on the Max article. Thoughts? Ian07 (talk) 14:12, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Black ribbon

Briefly popping out of the woodwork to mourn Rich --- I had the idea of adding a black ribbon in the lower right corner of pages. This is added by a bit of code in MediaWiki:Common.js, with some supporting CSS in MediaWiki:Common.css. To turn this off again, simply comment out the line that says

$( document ).ready(function() {
    console.log( "ready!" );
    addMourningRibbon();
});

near the bottom of MediaWiki:Common.js. (Actually, commenting out the call to addMourningRibbon there will be enough.) Leave the rest of the code and the CSS in though; that way the ribbon can be reused next time there is a death in the community. (The link on the ribbon is set a little further up, and can easily be adjusted as needed.)

N.B. --- the ribbon itself is a bit fiddly and doesn't always appear; I suspect this has to do with page caching, but I know too little about Javascript, Mediawiki and all that jazz to get to the bottom of it. Perhaps someone else who knows more can help. Using jQuery (which, thankfully, is included in MediaWiki) fixed this, so we should now have a ribbon on all pages, always. Apple Bottom (talk) 10:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

The black ribbon has been there for over ten days now; anyone want to suggest an appropriate total time period for it? I wandered over to MediaWiki:Common.js to see what would have to be done to turn it off, but found that I didn't have permission:
Permissions for editing of sitewide CSS/JS/JSON files were recently separated from the editinterface right.
If you do not understand why you are getting this error, see mw:MediaWiki_1.32/interface-admin.
Luckily I had permission to give myself permission, so I can now comment out the relevant line. The Internet suggests there are common 7-day and 30-day traditional mourning periods. Dvgrn (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
10 days seems fine to me. And yes, I had the same issue with permissions. Bit weird that MediaWiki doesn't give the relevant right to admins by default, but perhaps this is so that admins who're not aware of what they're doing won't accidentally break things. Apple Bottom (talk) 21:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

LifeViewer and RLE on OCA subpages

I was just looking at some experimental pages that Hunting/Ultimium has put together for LeapLife. For example, the small knightship in LeapLife is called a "lepa", so it's presumably going to go under OCA:LeapLife/Lepa.

But that brings up all kinds of questions. Look at Hunting's experimental Lepa page. If RLE is added in the RLE: namespace for a lepa, and for all the other things Hunting will want to document, then those patterns will end up in the main pattern collection, right? That doesn't seem like such a good idea. It would be nice to be able to put RLE someplace where LifeViewer can still find it, but it doesn't end up in the main LifeWiki pattern collection. We only have a few non-Life patterns so far, like Bomber, but it seems as if things could get out of control pretty fast if people want to add LifeViewer support for OCA pattern articles.

It seems like some different templates might be needed, to point to the alternate RLE namespace (if that gets created), and to get rid of irrelevant stuff like the links to Catagolue syntheses which won't exist for OCA patterns.

Thoughts on this? Would it be better to skip the templates, and just recommend that OCA patterns should keep their RLEs directly in the articles, as part of embedded LifeViewer text? Then I think the "RLE: here Plaintext: here" template won't work too well, and an alternate embedded-LifeViewer template for OCA patterns might be a good idea. (?) Dvgrn (talk) 16:09, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I think there should be a separate category, say OCARLE: and an option in the template |rle = oca for checking specifically under that header. Either that or one of the three other options:
  • Removing the pattern collection.
  • Creating a new wiki for other cellular automata.
  • Excluding all OCA RLE pages from the collection.
I agree with OCARLE. Ultimium (talk) 03:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Giving a quick search for RLE:bg gives 5 RLE pages as well, all in LeapLife. I think those should be excluded even if the others can't be, especially if I'm going to create more. (and Hunting's too, afaik there's only RLE:Lepa and RLE:Crawfish so that shouldn't be too hard) Bubblegum (talk) 18:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't object to either of these ideas, just want to point out that the latter option actually won't require the creation of a new template - if rle is specified instead of pname, the links won't appear. Ian07 (talk) 21:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I prefer to use a seperate collection instead of the RLE embedded in the page, and a template for OCA patterns, for, um, for no reason. I mean they will be easier to access and manage. Ultimium (talk) 06:11, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
So far, the only good way to add patterns to OCA pages is what Hunting/Ultimium has done, e.g., with User:Ultimium/LeapWiki/Crawfish. But this currently means that the crawfish RLE is going to get added to the omnibus RLE collection downloadable from the main page. There are currently 66 OCA patterns scattered in among the 2300+ Life patterns. Might it be a good idea to split out all OCA patterns and provide a separate downloadable collection?

[[RLE

I'm just mimicking Apple Bottom's Day & Night Wiki. I agree, we should split out all OCA patterns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultimium (talkcontribs)
Also it might be worth adjusting the template used there somehow, to clearly label the crawfish spaceship in the infobox as being in a non-B3/S23 rule. (?) Dvgrn (talk) 13:49, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I like the current idea of adding a new OCA RLE category so they won't get lumped into the B3/S23 stuff. Yes, I think adjusting the infobox template to make it more visible that the pattern is not a CGoL pattern is worth doing. Also, there are some RLEs I'm using in some of my user pages for OCA patterns. They are RLE:Smosmos, RLE:Sakaphipush, RLE:Sakacapush, RLE:Sakaw2, and RLE:Sakasaladc8 if I didn't miss any. Saka (talk) 13:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I've compiled the list of OCA RLE pages here: RLE:Ttetrominotlife, RLE:Pole2rotor, RLE:B36s245replicator, RLE:Pole3rotor, RLE:Pole4rotor, RLE:2x2glider, RLE:Awesoman3000/10p84h2v2, RLE:Lepa (hunting version), RLE:Bglepa (bubblegum version), RLE:Pedestrianlifep106gun, RLE:Mazeperiod2, RLE:Briansbrainp3, RLE:Jellyfish, RLE:Sakaw2 (i was surprised that this works), RLE:Awesoman3000/9p7h2v2, RLE:Replicator (highlife's), RLE:Bgpsgriddleblock, RLE:Tlifegatekid, RLE:2x2linepuffer, RLE:Bgrigel, RLE:2x2stills, RLE:Bgrollor, RLE:Highlifefourboats, RLE:Bomberpredecessor, RLE:Sakasaladc8 (same thing), RLE:Awesoman3000/ant, RLE:Dayandnightbutterfly, RLE:Mazewickstretcher, RLE:Lfodmoon, RLE:2x2period2oscillators, RLE:Awesoman3000/hawk, RLE:Smosmos (saka why these line-break tags with wrong-side slashes), RLE:Gemsc5648, RLE:Dayandnightbug, RLE:Dayandnightfatbug, RLE:Dayandnightsnail, RLE:Replicatorpredecessor (highlife again), RLE:Sakacapush (you know the drill), RLE:Crawfish, RLE:Movepuffer, RLE:Dayandnightflameball, RLE:Drylifeflowergarden, RLE:B36s245spaceships, RLE:Highlifereplicatorxp96, RLE:B36s245-14c300spaceship, RLE:Bgstar, RLE:Sakaphipush (i swear, all of saka's rles do this), RLE:B36s245gun, RLE:Movestilllifes, RLE:Lifehistoryexample (does this count?), RLE:Dayandnightmilkbone, RLE:Dayandnightfireball (please ab get better names), RLE:Jasonsbow, RLE:Dayandnightrocket, RLE:Dayandnightp60fireball (...), RLE:Dayandnightp120fireball (is the fireball like a variable-speed ss or what), RLE:Dayandnighttotempole, RLE:B36s245-28c1200spaceship, RLE:Dayandnightp220fireball (aaa)
I probably missed some so great
Also RLE:1234_synth uses b2s23 instead of b3s23 so that's just lovely Bubblegum (talk) 05:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

"Non-Lifelike" CAs -- cleanup suggested

This post by BokaBB got me looking at the rule pages that have been collected in the OCA namespace. Category:Life-like cellular automata includes several isotropic non-totalistic rules (OCA:GlideLife, OCA:Goat Flock, OCA:Just Friends, OCA:Salad, OCA:Snowflakes, OCA:Tlife, and OCA:Wlife, so far, and I might have missed something.) There seems to be standard wording in all of these saying " {Rule R} is a non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton". But this just plain isn't right: a non-totalistic CA can't be Life-like.

The standard wording links to Non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton, which shouldn't really exist because technically there is no such thing. I guess the right name for that article should probably be just Non-totalistic cellular automaton, and "Life-like" should also be removed from Isotropic non-totalistic Life-like cellular automaton and Non-isotropic_Life-like_cellular_automaton (both the titles and the article text).

Does anyone have any objection if I do a bunch of editing to fix this, before the problem gets any worse? Or does someone really want to LifeWiki-officially redefine what "Life-like" means? The current definition is so widely accepted that it's even on Wikipedia: "Life-like" implies an outer-totalistic rule, so it's much more limited than the space of isotropic non-totalistic rules.

I'd like to add a couple of new LifeWiki categories (or have someone competent do it for me): one for "Other Cellular Automata" in general (Life-like and isotropic NT rules), and one for isotropic NT rules specifically. At the moment it seems kind of hard to find a category page for all OCA: namespace articles -- you can't just search for "OCA" or "OCA:" (right?)

If we want to be really brave, we could make the isotropic NT category something like "Iso-NT". If that caught on -- big "if" -- then there would finally be a short standard way to say "isotropic non-totalistic". Maybe someday people could just say "isont" or "anisont" and expect to be understood. ("Aniso-NT" would be the equivalent category for "anisotropic non-totalistic", but there doesn't seem to be any point in creating that category since nobody's come up with a rule worth naming in that rulespace yet.)

... If anyone does have an objection, please suggest something we could do instead! Dvgrn (talk) 16:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

This is probably a bit late, but I think those bunch of edits are a good idea (Which it appears you have not done yet). And yes, I do agree with defining "Life-like" as strictly for Outer-totalistic rules. Nope, you can't just search "OCA" or "OCA:", so yeah, it's currently impossible to find a category with all the OCA rules and nothing more: The "Life-like_cellular_automata" category doesn't include LTL and multistate rules, while the "Cellular_automata" category also lists a bunch of non-rule pages such as the general articles for rulespaces and the lists of rules investigated on Catagolue (which, aren't they obsolete?).
Back on the definition of "Life-like", the inclusion of IsNT (Isotropic Non Totalistic) rules in the category of Life-like CA on the wiki will probably make new CA-Enthusiasts think that they are included in Life-like CA, which might have an effect on the forum.
Also, over on the Discord the standard way to write "Isotropic Non-Totalistic" quicker seems to be "INT", and Heavpoot suggested (somewhat jokingly?) "AINT" for "AnIsotropic Non-Totalistic" (Perhaps "AiNT" is better), or we could just refer to them as "MAP Rules", although yeah, that isn't very good, as MAP includes Isotropic and totalistic rules as well. Saka (talk) 14:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Not only Discord uses this name - "INT" is also well known on the forums. Ultimium (talk) 22:00, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Expanding Covered OCA Rules

Does anyone think that having articles for rules beyond Life-Like and Isotropic Non-totalistic should be on here, like Wireworld or Langton's Ant? These would still go under the OCA namespace, obviously. If anyone has any thoughts on this, that would be great. AforAmpere (talk) 5:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, articles for any reasonably well-known rule would be very welcome in the OCA namespace. Wireworld and Langton's Ant definitely count as good examples.
A big reason for inventing the OCA namespace was to provide a place for this kind of information, without accidentally cluttering up the "Life" part of the LifeWiki. Dvgrn (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I would like to contribute to these pages. Ultimium (talk) 02:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Mmm, a similar discussion took place three years ago, see LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2017#Lists_of_rules. Speaking of articles for other cellular automata, how about those red links in the list of Generations rules? There are a variety of rules, and therefore it will be a huge amount of work if we want to write a page for each. Or should we consider their historical/current significance first? Need Generations experts here. (I dislike red links...Wait, I shouldn't show personal feelings here.) GUYTU6J (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Personal feelings? Nah, that's just on the actual article pages. I really like red links, because they encourage other people to do documentation work... It would make sense to me to add a page for each of the major Generations rules in the old MCell 4.20 collection, just for starters. There's usually some descriptive text that could be lifted out of Mirek's representative {RULENAME}.mcl file, as a starting point.
The named Generations rules in the MCell pattern collection are Banners, Bombers, Brain 6, Brian's Brain, Burst, BurstII, Caterpillars, Chenille, Ebb&Flow, Ebb&FlowII, Faders, Fireworks, Frogs, Glisserati, Nova, Rake, SediMental, Snake, Spirals, StarWars, Sticks, Swirl, Transers, TransersII, Wanderers, and Worms. There's also an "Other Rules" folder, but it has just a couple of patterns in it -- one in the Star Wars family, and an unnamed explosive one (345/24/25) with a side-effect production of some Rule-90-ish behavior. Dvgrn (talk) 15:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Right, I've made attempts to write for Star Wars. It still needs some content about various constructions before releasing to the OCA namespace, but I lack time now. (EDIT: I've released it on June 22, further compositions welcome!) GUYTU6J (talk) 03:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

By the way, putting a somewhat off-topic request here: can we integrate a LifeViewer equipped with command RANDOMIZE in Template:Rule? The command is for generating a random 64×64 soup upon launching the viewer (or refreshing the page):

x = 0, y = 0, rule = B3/S23 ! #C [[ THUMBSIZE 2 THEME 6 GRID GRIDMAJOR 0 SUPPRESS THUMBLAUNCH ]] #C [[ RANDOMIZE THUMBLAUNCH OFF THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 2 ]]
An example soup in rule B3/S23 (click above to open LifeViewer)

It works well with 2-state rules. For rules with more states, like Generations, more commands is needed to specify which state to use. GUYTU6J (talk) 06:05, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Criteria for notable INT rules

The discussion at LifeWiki:Tiki bar/Archive/2019#Non-notable isotropic rules inspired me to move OCA:Wlife to User:Evin/Wlife. Previously the reason for proposed deletion was "non-notable rule; forum thread only has 9 posts in total". Sounds reasonable, right?

But then here come the questions. Can we develop some universal criteria for a section in LifeWiki:Notability about an INT rule? Which rule warrants an article on OCA namespace, and which rule is at most qualified for a User subpage? Rules differ greatly in behaviour and potential for interesting technology, but still I think "Well-explored syntheses", "Turing-complete", "Orthogonoid/Demonoid engineered explicitly", or something along these lines, may suffice for the judgement.

Related, should we encourage users to write about their custom INT rule in their User subpage first, and move it to the official OCA namespace after reaching a consensus that it is well-developed and notable enough according to some guideline? GUYTU6J (talk) 02:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that a rule has to be Turing-complete and have a Orthogonoid/demonoid to be interesting / to warrant their own wiki page, but that's just my opinion. Making a universal definition for interesting INT rules will be hard, as is making a strict definition of interesting anything. But if we do make one, maybe we could judge the rule by it's activity as well? Number of active explorers, number of (useful / constructive) posts in the rule's thread (that are related to the rule, not off-topic chatting), that kind of stuff. One problem I can see with that approach, however, is that some genuinely interesting rules do get unnoticed, but maybe that's outside the scope of this... discussion?
On the last part, yeah, I think that's a good idea. Related to that, is the wiki O.K.a.y. with a bunch of pages under the userspace? We already have a good amount, and if we encourage that we'll have some more. Also, maybe encourage users to write a page under their username if they think their rule is interesting enough (Maybe that will slightly decrease the number of user subpages?).
I don't think we should have strict guidelines but rather a board / panel of people that will decide if a rule warrants a wiki page.
EDIT: I forgot, I do think that the current Wlife page is a bit too empty to be in the official™ OCA namespace. Saka (talk) 04:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Well, the activity of a rule is indeed another possible consideration, though more subjective. Besides quantity, explorers and posts are also of different quality, which is more related to the rule's known interestingness. Also time is an important factor here, as understandings usually cumulate over time. (Of course, given infinite time and adequate utilities, genuinely interesting rules are bound to be realized and explored in-depth, eventually warranting an OCA article.)
Pages under User namespace are not offical, they cannot be found in the simple search on the main page unless you add "User:". They record semi-interesting stuff with potential to be officially notable. For notable rules this can be a primary filter. But wait, what if someone wants to contribute to a rule under someone else's user space?
If the secondary filter for notable rules were to be a group of people, there could sometimes be conflicts of intererst and other complex issues. GUYTU6J (talk) 07:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for non-constructive comments, but well-developed syntheses seems like a personal bias rather than an actual factor of rules' interestingness. Others seems good enough to me. Ultimium (talk) 11:01, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

2-state rule cleanup

Yet another discussion on the non-Life part of the wiki... I noticed that User:Ian07 deleted a few pages (Tq6, Movingstrings and Lotsofdots) under Rule namespace on Feb 15 due to "2-state rule, no ruletable needed".

At the time of writing there are 73 pages with 2-state range-1 rules on a 2-dimensional square grid. Since they can all be described with MAP strings, I suggest discarding these pages like the previous examples. We need to do the following:

  1. Look into the rule tables and figure out their MAP strings,
  2. Submit the rule names as aliases of the MAP strings, or edit the (if) very few instances mentioning the manes names on the forums.

Does anyone want to help? GUYTU6J (talk) 15:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Here are a couple of initial contributions:
1) For a few of these rules, the thing that makes them rule-table-worthy might be not the rule but the associated icons. HexLife and Pentagonhood are examples, I think.
2) I think that the "figure out the MAP strings" part can be done fairly simply with a version of this MAPper Lua script, by installing each rule in Golly, running the script, and copying out the reported MAP string.
Thanks for working on this! Rule namespace maintenance is a big job for one person, but hopefully many hands can help lighten the work. Dvgrn (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Once the aliases are submitted LifeViewer will prefer them to any Rule namespace definition. Regarding Icons: at some stage I'll add support for Icons but it won't be any time soon. For Hex neighbourhood rules there is a MAP format that supports these and will cause LifeViewer to use hexagonal cell display. There's also a VN MAP format but visually it uses square cells like Moore. Help->Info->Pattern will let you know whether LifeViewer is using a Rule namespace definition (there will be a Type of @TABLE or @TREE if so). Chris Rowett (talk) 03:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Good. Besides a spelling fix, I have a few minor questions:
Is there a page which lists those aliases, so that one can search (with Ctrl+F) through/copy them?
The rule tables were added to LifeWiki in an "auto-import project". Where can I see the details of the project? Can it be modified so that 2-state rules are not collected?
Do we need to archive the references on the rule pages? GUYTU6J (talk) 06:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
You can see the list of aliases in LifeViewer with Help->Aliases. While the Help is displayed pressing Ctrl-C copies the topic to the clipboard.
For the auto-import project Dvgrn wrote the script to scan the forums and find the rules. I then used the output from this to create the required rule definitions (adding @TREE sections where missing) which he then uploaded to the Rule namespace. Built-in rules (like B3/S23 etc) and existing LifeViewer aliases were filtered out. Chris Rowett (talk) 09:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Re: auto-import scripts --
That project was a one-time effort, and nobody is currently planning on ever running those scripts again. They were a combination of one-off Python scraper scripts and some Selenium automation trickery. From now on, as new rules get created, there will be a strong incentive for anyone posting new-rule patterns to the forums, to just throw a copy immediately into the Rule namespace, so that LifeViewer can display those patterns. So -- at least according to my theory -- there's no need to run any further automated surveys to try to pick up new rules posted on the forums. We'd get a lot of duplication and possible conflict headaches, for no obvious benefit.
A survey that could be done is to run back through old posts and look for old-style rule tables. There are a few of those that were missed because they don't have the @TABLE keyword at the top of the code block. But I think most of the commonly used rules have long since been converted to @TABLE format, so this would just pick up a few out-of-fashion rules from the early 2010s.
The auto-import script that _is_ run semi-regularly, every month or two, is the one that takes new embedded and infobox patterns from the RLE namespace and turns them into commented patterns added to the all.zip LifeWiki pattern collection. Dvgrn (talk) 15:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Alright, I'm done. Here's the list of aliases I created:
  • Bigship - B2ei3eiqry4ny5ajkr/S23ajkr4jnry5inq
  • WolfVN-W50_B14_S34V - B2an3cjr4acij5nqy6ak/S2cn3cqy4cny5e
  • B2ex3-lS23 - B2en3-a/S23
  • randomnn - MAPA1Az8wMAqgAAUADAAAAAAAAAgMAAAIAAgICAwAAAgAAAAAAAiACqAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAIgAgACAgIAAAACAAA
  • water - MAPABAbrwAA//8AQltdAAD+/8Aa/f8AAP//YgD//wAA//8AAP//QAD//wBA//8AAP/fAgD3+wKA//8AIPZ/AAD//w
  • B45_S034_N21 - B2ei3-ce4cny/S02-cn3cinqy4c
  • HexLife (Saka) - B3o/S234-o6
  • rules6 - MAPAgl/+0Ug/fVAIv/9AADdPwDi9/uAQft5qIDtlQgA/b8gAP//AAD//wAQv/8AAP7+AhD/+gAA/f8EAv//AID//w
  • x-rule - MAPBSB64CCTqARFBImEADAGBSCTgICTSIAAADCFCSTAAAANAMEUBCKEBchCE00YAE3IACSFACCIQQDIIF4UIIAGSA
  • pentagonhood - MAPEWYRZmaIZogRZhFmZohmiGaIZoiIAIgAZohmiIgAiAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB
  • B578_S4567_N31 - B3-ce4aikqtwz5e/S2-cn3-ce4cny5e
Notes:
  • B45_S034_N21 was anisotropic as a .rule file, but intended to be isotropic.
  • The original name of HexLife (Saka) was just HexLife.
  • B578_S4567_N31 simply did not work as intended. The inferred rule preserves everything described except the r-pentomino, which should just be an error in the original. I don't know.
I'd say HexLife (Saka) and pentagonhood should stay where they are due to their @ICONS sections and everything else could be cleaned up.
Also hey, did you know you can customise your signature? bubblegum-talk|contribs 00:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Topics article suggestion

Some thread-digging found a post listing the topics in Game of Life. Anyone putting it on the LifeWiki? I have little time on this. GUYTU6J (talk) 06:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

It would be really interesting to try to come up with a list of all of the esoteric sub-fields of Conway's Life that have been studied over the last five decades, including whatever links and references are available for each topic. OCA topics should have their own list, no doubt, for stuff like record-breaking RROs, Spaceships Made of Spaceships, the 5S project, micro-Orthogonoids, etc., etc.
Let's see, here's one more list for Conway's Life to be integrated. Also two more lists of topics have now been cleaned up a bit and dropped in User:Dvgrn/Life_Topics. Dvgrn (talk) 20:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
That's a wonderful toplevel design! Actually the list in my quote was adapted from that in yours. By"LLLS" in volume VII it means LSSS, right? Also, where would Project von Neumann and existing tutorials on LifeWiki go in this scheme? GUYTU6J (talk) 03:44, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Ha, yes, LLLS is a typo, now fixed. Project von Neumann hasn't progressed far enough yet to deserve a place on the list, probably. Maybe give it a few more years. I at least won't be spending time on it until the Life textbook is all wrapped up and out the door.
Good suggestion on the tutorials. I've gone through the outline and added a few items, and added links to tutorials when they're available. Will try to go back and annotate everything else that's mentioned in the outline, a volume at a time... might take a while.

Except for "Volume 1", which will actually become a generally-available PDF sometime in 2021, I suppose the outline is kind of heavy on specific patterns and light on general theory. Maybe the "list of topics" should really be an article, separate from my "outline of explanations of large constructions" (which probably doesn't rate an article). As I add more "volumes", I guess some of the later ones get more into covering higher-level topics, but it's probably a confusing way to organize things for a general audience. Dvgrn (talk) 12:40, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Embedded-viewer variant collections

I just tried some experiments with using embedded viewers floating to left, right and center, in the Fx77 article.

It looks like it's always going to be a little tricky to get this kind of viewer stamp collection to flow correctly on the page, cooperating with the infobox -- at least, unless someone can put together some very very clever templates. It seems to be far beyond my web layout skills.

I found that the old trick of adding

<div style="clear:both;"> ... </div>

almost worked well for flow control -- for example, to force the centered Fx77+R64 to drop below the two Hersrch Fx77 variants, Fx77S and Fx77SW. This looks okay on a small laptop screen, but produces ridiculous amounts of whitespace on a larger monitor, so I removed it. The clear:both trick is particularly unwieldy when a pattern has a very lengthy infobox, because all the following text drops below the entire infobox -- not just below the most recent embedded viewers.

Also, it seems as if I often get stuck having just one left-aligned, one right-aligned, and one center-aligned embedded-viewer thumbnail. I'm thinking that there are a number of medium-sized stamp collections that it would be good to get into LifeWiki articles, e.g., maybe representatives of the sixteen classes of glider timing adjustment circuits. I've never gotten a midsized collection like that to look any good on multiple monitors, but maybe if they all just float left with THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 3 in LifeViewer, that will be about the best we can do?

I did find that captions could be improved by centering with

<div style="text-align:center;">first-line caption<br /><br />extended-caption<br /><br /></div>

Does that look tolerable to everyone else? Unless this is added, EmbedViewers with position=center will have centered caption text, but position=left and position=right EmbedViewer captions will both have left-justified text, which doesn't look so good. The automatically-added last two lines still end up left-justified in those two cases, unfortunately; I didn't attempt to fix that for the Fx77 article.

In general, if anyone has better suggestions for dealing with page flow issues like these, please let me know! Dvgrn (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Link to Discord server on navbar?

So today ApChrKey joined and said something about how the invite link was really hard to find. It is on links but at the very bottom. (I don't know how that affects it but whatever) Macbi suggested that we could put it up top on the navbar or whatever it's called. Given that we already have a way to cite it I don't see why we can't have a direct way to access it. Bubblegum (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Time to delete Template:LinkWeisstein?

At this point, I think it's unlikely that the site is going to be updated so that this template can be re-enabled. As it stands, all this template does is produce an ugly piece of whitespace in articles such as toad. Any objections to deleting it? (note that I can semi-automatically remove all the occurrences beforehand with AutoWikiBrowser) Ian07 (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Excessive barberpole articles

In light of the recent merging of Template:Vessel articles, we should probably consider merging some of the larger barberpoles as well, as most people seem to agree that going up to quindecapole is pretty excessive. However, this raises the question of what the new cutoff point should be. I'd say we should keep at least everything up to heptapole, since all of those have shown up naturally. Note that although duodecapole does not have any sample soups in any symmetry, tredecapole does, making that the largest semi-natural barberpole. Ian07 (talk) 14:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)