Talk:OTCA (disambiguation)

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Revision as of 08:40, 1 September 2022 by GUYTU6J (talk | contribs)
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What? Is there really someone else referring to Brice Due's unit cell construction as "OTCA" (instead of "OTCA metapixel")? What does "OTCA" expand to, then?

A forums search only finds instances where "OTCA" is referring to a class of cellular automata by its own. GUYTU6J (talk) 13:24, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I see, but for non-metapixel usages like this one, the abbreviation is clearly unrelated to the unit cell construction. GUYTU6J (talk) 13:34, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Again, please elaborate your answer and describe the search results. The explanation so far is not clear and convincing enough. GUYTU6J (talk) 03:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

GUYTU6J, I can certainly see where you're coming from -- nobody would normally refer to the metapixel as "OTCA", even though it can simulate any outer-totalistic cellular automaton... it's always "OTCA metapixel".
On the other hand, somebody who sees "OTCA metapixel" for the first time might think "what's OTCA?" and go look up "OTCA" in the LifeWiki. Or someone looking up OTCA in the LifeWiki might be interested to find out that all OTCAs can be emulated by Brice Due's metapixel.
So I don't see that it's so terribly awful to have a disambiguation page for "OTCA" -- though it certainly does seem to make sense to redirect plain "OTCA" to "OTCA (disambiguation)", if we follow this model. Unless there are lots more people who disagree with me than who agree, of course. I would also be perfectly happy *not* having a disambiguation page for "OTCA". Dvgrn (talk) 18:41, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
The thing is, "OTCA" has one and only meaning of "outer-totalistic cellular automaton", so there is nothing "ambiguous" about it and no "disambiguation" is needed. OTCA should only redirect to outer-totalistic cellular automaton, and that target page could have a paragraph detailing that Brice Due's unit cell is capable of simulating these rules. GUYTU6J (talk) 03:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I disagree. As can be checked by a quick forum search (see above), the abbreviation "OTCA" has at least two associated meanings when used in a forum post, and "OTCA metapixel" is the more common associated meaning. So in my opinion, if OTCA is redirected (to a non-disambiguation page), then it should be redirected to OTCA metapixel - because that's (currently) the more common associated usage, and the wiki should attempt to document existing usage rather than trying to redefine/change it. Having OTCA redirected to "outer-totalistic cellular automaton" would be incorrect. Confocal (talk) 04:18, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
In this "associated meaning" of OTCA metapixel, you cannot dissociate "OTCA" from "metapixel". As for "OTCA" itself, answer yes or no, does it expand to "outer-totalistic cellular automaton"? GUYTU6J (talk) 04:48, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
In the context of discussing wiki pages OTCA/OTCA (disambiguation), the question is not what it expands to, but rather what are its common usages. This abbreviation is commonly used when talking about OTCA metapixel. Your claim that "forums search only finds instances where "OTCA" is referring to a class of cellular automata by its own" is incorrect. Confocal (talk) 04:59, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
No, what OTCA expands to does matter for this issue, and clearly it expands to "outer-totalistic cellular automaton". Yes, "OTCA" is commonly used in conjunction with "metapixel" in reference to Brice Due's unit cell. No, "OTCA" "by its own" does not cover the meaning of "metapixel", hence my last statement. So no, you cannot think that "OTCA" has the meaning of "a unit cell constructed by Brice Due" and redirect "OTCA" to the page detailing the unit cell.
Note that {{disambig}} uses the phrase "refer to" at the time of writing, instead of "is commonly used in these contexts". And by redirecting page titled A to page titled B, we mean "A is an alternative name of B", rather than "A is a related concept commonly used when referring to B". GUYTU6J (talk) 05:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
I think the wiki is written primarily for readers. Readers are trying to understand context. It seems helpful to have a disambiguation page explaining different contexts. On the other hand, it does not seem helpful to insist that the only meaning behind "OTCA" is the one obtained by expanding the abbreviation. As I already said, the question is not what it expands to. Confocal (talk) 06:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
The context can be explained to readers in the page with only correct expansion just as well. On the other hand, it is precisely an unhelpful practice to load new meaning(s) to, and henceforth to create disambiguation for, a word that otherwise is clearly not ambiguous on its own. GUYTU6J (talk) 07:08, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
This is not about expansion. What is helpful and what is not is apparently opinion-based. My preference is to disambiguate earlier - that is, before and instead of deciding for the reader what they are "really" looking for. If you move the disambiguation into a page for one of existing usages, then the disambiguation becomes misplaced. Also, this whole discussion suggests that things are not as clear and unambiguous as one may wish. Confocal (talk) 07:47, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
No, what you are thinking is not to be called a disambiguation. It feels more like a distortion to the following hypothetical sentence on the OTCA page.
OTCA is an acronym for outer-totalistic cellular automaton. The abbreviation is most commonly used in the context of Brice Due's OTCA metapixel, a unit cell constructed in 2006 that is capable of simulating this class of rules.
There is only one meaning and one common derivative application to explain, instead of two different meanings to disambiguate. Can you tell them apart now? GUYTU6J (talk) 08:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Your hypothetical example seems to suggest that OTCA should rather become a short {{Glossary}} page, replacing the current OTCA (disambiguation). Then that hypothetical short glossary page would explain the acronym and link to both existing usages, each of which would live on a separate page (note that either or both of linked pages may or may not be long). There would still be three pages in total, but what is now a disambig would become a glossary page, without changing what it basically does. Would you prefer that to the current state of affairs? Confocal (talk) 08:26, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
To a certain degree, yes, because this does not convey the wrong conclusion that "OTCA means/refers to/is an abbreviation (or acronym) of OTCA metapixel". But then I will instantly propose merging it with outer-totalistic cellular automaton because 1) that is what the acronym expands to intrinsically and 2) I dislike too many short glossary pages floating around. In the end there is no net difference with my original intention. I have also spotted the misleading wording of "both existing usages" in that it misses the point of one being intrinsic and the other being derivative. GUYTU6J (talk) 08:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
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