LifeWiki:Tiki bar

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Taka Tiki Break

Welcome, one and all, to the Tiki bar! This page is used to discuss the technical issues, policies, and operations of the LifeWiki. Or just sit down, relax, and enjoy a cocktail.

Click here to start a new Tiki bar discussion.

Welcome to the Tiki bar

Wikipedia has the Village pump, Wiktionary has the Beer parlour, but the LifeWiki's lacked a central page for discussion so far other than User talk:Nathaniel. So I took the liberty to create the Tiki bar to facilitate discussion in a friendly and relaxed atmosphere. Welcome! Apple Bottom (talk) 11:09, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Archived discussions

Note: active discussions are never archived while still active.

Proposal for niemiecsynth infobox parameter

Are there any objections to me adding a parameter to the pattern infobox which would link to a given object in Mark Niemiec's synthesis database. Despite its outdatedness, I've personally still found the database extremely useful due to the number of alternative syntheses it has, and I imagine many other people would as well. This would be far easier than manually uploading synthesis files to the pattern collection.

Note that this is distinct from niemiecid, which does not necessarily determine where a synthesis is found. For example, boat does not actually have a niemiecid as far as I can tell it, and its synthesis file is actually located at 0/5bt.rle. Non-still-life patterns also appear to not have IDs under the #.# system. Ian07 (talk) 03:43, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Linking to Niemiec synthesis database is nice, but not necessarily shown in infobox in my opinion. An alternative method is to use {{LinkNiemiec}} in the External links section. There have been a bunch of pages doing that; previously I edited some for 12-cell still lives (e.g. this one) so that the link goes to the particular synthesis RLE directly instead of the general "The <count> <pop>-bit still lives" panel. I have not done this to other smaller still lives, though. GUYTU6J (talk) 04:24, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Do LCMs need their own pages?

134P39.1: Keep. It's historical, and we don't know of any non-p3/p13 p39s anyway.
22P4.3 on 56P27: Merge to 56P27.
258P3 on Achim's p11: Unsure. I might say it's not needed at all.
44P7 on Beluchenko's p13: Redirect to Beluchenko's p13, mention on both pages.
48P9 on rattlesnake: Redirect to rattlesnake, mention on both pages.
65P48: Keep; this is a rephaser where large oscillator doesn't have its own page.
69P48: Keep for the same reasons as 65P48.
72P68: Merge to honey thieves.
74P85: Merge to honey thieves.
77P77: Redirect to rattlesnake, mention on both pages (rattlesnake and 41P7.2).
87P26: Either keep or merge with 53P13.
90P51: Merge to honey thieves.
Blonker on Rich's p16: Delete (there's already a delete tag).
Boring p24: Keep; it's natural.
Caterer on 28P7.3: Merge to 28P7.3.
Caterer on 42P7.1: Merge to 44P7.2 (42P7.1 is a smaller but lower-clearance variant of 44P7.2).
Caterer on 44P7.2: Redirect to 44P7.2; no need to show.
Caterer on 68P32: Delete, no longer smallest.
Caterer on Beluchenko's p13: Merge to Beluchenko's p13.
Caterer on figure eight: Redirect to figure eight, mention on both pages.
Caterer on Jason's p22: Merge to Jason's p22.
Caterer on Merzenich's p31: Merge to Merzenich's p31.
Caterer on rattlesnake: Merge to rattlesnake.
Figure eight on 22P36: Merge to 22P36.
Figure eight on Beluchenko's p13: Merge to Beluchenko's p13.
Figure eight on centinal: Redirect to centinal; no need to show since it's p200.
Figure eight on Jason's p22: Delete, not the smallest.
Figure eight on pentadecathlon: Keep, natural.
Figure eight on rattlesnake: Merge to rattlesnake.
Fumarole on 34P14 shuttle: Merge to 34P14 shuttle.
Fumarole on Achim's p11: Delete, by far not the smallest.
Fumarole on Beluchenko's p13: Merge to Beluchenko's p13.
Fumarole on p18 bi-block hassler: Merge to p18 bi-block hassler.
Fumarole on Rich's p16: Delete; overtaken by Rob's p16.
Fumarole on Rob's p16: Merge to Rob's p16.
Mold on 34P14 shuttle: Merge to 34P14 shuttle.
Mold on 41P7.2: Merge to 41P7.2.
Mold on fumarole: Merge to fumarole, mention on both pages.
Mold on Jason's p22: Delete, not smallest.
Mold on Jason's p33: Merge to Jason's p33.
Mold on Merzenich's p31: Merge to Merzenich's p31.
Mold on pentadecathlon: Merge to pentadecathlon.
Mold on rattlesnake: Merge to rattlesnake.
P6 thumb on Beluchenko's p13: Merge to Beluchenko's p13.
Pentadecathlon on 37P7.1: Merge to 37P7.1.
Pentadecathlon on 56P27: Merge to 56P27.
Pentadecathlon on snacker: Delete, not smallest.
Pentadecathlon on thumb 1: Merge to thumb 1
Pseudo-barberpole on Jason's p22: Merge to Jason's p22.
Pseudo-barberpole on rattlesnake: Merge to rattlesnake.
Snacker on 38P7.2: Redirect to 38P7.2, mention on both pages.
T-nosed p4 on Merzenich's p31: Delete, not smallest.
Thumb 1 on queen bee shuttle: Merge to thumb 1 (queen bee shuttle has a lot of other uses, and this would add clutter).
Tumbler on Rich's p16: Merge to tumbler; tumbler was chosen over Rich's p16 as people wouldn't expect tumbler to have sparks.
Twin bees shuttle on 22P4.3: Delete. We don't have a page for 22P4.3, and it ties the non-LCM record anyway.
Uninteresting p24: Keep, natural.
Unix on 34P14 shuttle: Merge to 34P14 shuttle.
Unix on 41P7.2: Delete, not smallest.
Unix on Rich's p16: Merge to Rich's p16.

HotdogPi (talk) 14:15, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Well the first entry on this list certainly didn't age perfectly.
I agree with most of these proposals, although I'd prefer it if the cases marked for deletion were instead made into redirects to the current smallest, with their existence as the smallest at one point in time given a passing mention. - AwesoMan3000 (talk) 14:10, 19 January 2022 (UTC)


I also agree with most of these proposals, but there are a few I would do differently:
258P3 on Achim's p11: Keep or merge to Achim's p11; it's historical.
134P39.1: Merge to cheater 2.
72P68: Merge to cheater 2.
74P85: Merge to cheater 2.
90P51: Merge to cheater 2.
87P26: Move 53P13 to 50P13 and merge with 50P13.
Caterer on 42P7.1: Delete; no longer the smallest.
Caterer on 44P7.2: Delete; not the smallest.
Pentadecathlon on thumb 1: Move thumb 1 to p9 thumb and merge to p9 thumb
Thumb 1 on queen bee shuttle: Move thumb 1 to p9 thumb and merge to p9 thumb
Twin bees shuttle on 22P4.3: Already redirected to a smaller LCM p92.
~Sokwe 22:00, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

OCA RLE

Two hours ago our site admin User:Nathaniel added a collection of other cellular automata patterns to the main page under the name of oca.zip, and I noticed something that is worth discussing.

Firstly, click on "Expand" to the right to view the list of the filenames (currently there are 75). 

1308p7.rle
2c5ladders.rle
2x210cellstilllifes.rle
2x22cellstilllifes.rle
2x23cellstilllifes.rle
2x24cellstilllifes.rle
2x25cellstilllifes.rle
2x26cellstilllifes.rle
2x27cellstilllifes.rle
2x28cellstilllifes.rle
2x29cellstilllifes.rle
2x2blockoscillators.rle
2x2glider.rle
2x2linepuffer.rle
2x2oscillators.rle
2x2period2oscillators.rle
2x2stills.rle
4c13ladders.rle
4c9ladders.rle
b3578s238replicator.rle
bomberpredecessor.rle
briansbrainp3.rle
c3ladder.rle
c3ladders.rle
candlefrobraitself.rle
croaker.rle
dayandnightfireball.rle
flutter.rle
griddle.rle
highlife10cellstilllifes.rle
highlife11cellstilllifes.rle
highlife12cellstilllifes.rle
highlife13cellstilllifes.rle
highlife4cellstilllifes.rle
highlife5cellstilllifes.rle
highlife6cellstilllifes.rle
highlife7cellstilllifes.rle
highlife8cellstilllifes.rle
highlife9cellstilllifes.rle
highlifereplicatorxp96.rle
honeyfarmgenerator.rle
jasonsbow.rle
jellyfish.rle
lifehistoryexample.rle
lifewithoutdeathquadraticgrowth.rle
longlivedsparks.rle
maze2cellstilllifes.rle
maze3cellstilllifes.rle
maze4cellstilllifes.rle
maze5cellstilllifes.rle
maze6cellstilllifes.rle
maze7cellstilllifes.rle
maze8cellstilllifes.rle
maze9cellstilllifes.rle
mazeperiod2.rle
mazestilllifes.rle
mazewickstretcher.rle
moon.rle
movepuffer.rle
movestilllifes.rle
nontnosedp15.rle
nontnosedp8.rle
pedestrianlifeobliquespaceship.rle
pedestrianlifep106gun.rle
pedestrianlife_obliquespaceship.rle
pedestrianlife_p106gun.rle
pole2rotor.rle
pole3rotor.rle
pole4rotor.rle
replicator.rle
replicatorpredecessor.rle
semitnosedp16.rle
semitnosedp8.rle
ttetrominotlife.rle
uniquefatherproblemsolved.rle

Then, the issues.

Finally, the former suggestion of creating an independent OCARLE namespace looks reasonable to me. Would this be implemented?

(Meanwhile, happy Pi day!) -GUYTU6J (talk) 03:54, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have fixed the script so that patterns with "rule = Life" and "rule = LifeHistory" are now placed in all.zip instead of oca.zip. The script runs on the server once every 24 hours, so these changes will take up to a day to appear. Nathaniel (talk) 12:32, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Good, how about the remaining questions? For consistency, I went ahead and fixed the nonstandard "rule = Life" in the RLE above as well as in RLE:46p4h1v0 synth, both of which were produced by User:Dvgrn. Related to the second issue, RLE:Quetzal54 appears to be generated by User:Book's personal website and the link is broken; can you rewrite the comment so as to match LifeWiki standards? -GUYTU6J (talk) 12:56, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Redirects from misspelling

I fail to see why redirects from misspellings are prohibited. Atavoidirc (talk) 21:40, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

  • I think there are too many possible ways to misspell something (just multiply the number of letters in the title by (number of letters in the alphabet - 1) and on top of that add misspellings that add/remove/exchange letters), so that it becomes unreasonable to make redirects for them. For another example, should jrake be redirected to rake, or to krake (note that letters j and k are adjacent on a common keyboard layout), or maybe to a disambiguation page created specifically for the purpose of distinguishing possible misspellings? Some redirects for really common misspellings may be acceptable - but I think it is necessary to show explicitly that these misspellings are indeed common, and there are few such cases.
In any case, I do not think it is helpful to quickly make dozens of redirects for misspellings - it clutters the logs of recent changes for editors, and it does not seem a noticeable improvement for readers. Confocal (talk) 07:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
(Added later) Although the following does not necessarily imply anything specific (I think the wiki should not promote an incorrect spelling, even if it becomes common), here are results of a quick forum search: "candelfobra" - 0 matches, "candlefobra" - 0 matches, "candelfrobra" - 16 matches, "candlefrobra" - 36 matches. Confocal (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Personally i think redirects from misspellings that are not just typos (e.g. Candelfobra) should be allowed. I've made this specific misspelling several times before, so i know at least one person who would benefit from it. Atavoidirc (talk) 11:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
My vote would definitely be to not add misspelling-redirects, and to remove any that have been added. We've already got lots of spelling and punctuation variants showing up in the All Pages lists, and those lists will get extremely cluttered if we also add every possible misspelling of every article name -- or even every reasonable misspelling.
Of course there's a checkbox to hide redirects, but the problem I see is that current policy is fairly consistent about having redirects be valid variant spellings -- terms that people have actually used or might actually use.
So if we add things like "Suprise", we're kind of implying that "suprise" is a valid name that someone has used for something. People might click on it thinking, "what's that, a pun on 'sup' so it's some kind of eater?" and then mysteriously find no explanation of why "suprise" is listed. I'd much rather avoid that unlikely potential confusion, than avoid the unlikely potential confusion that someone can't find the Surprise article because they typed "suprise".
In other words, given that the lexicon of Life terms includes all kinds of things like "Catagolue" that look like misspellings but are actually completely purposeful and have meaning... there's useful information in the current collection of redirects, and it's not an improvement to add a random scattering of misspellings that are really just misspellings. People can perfectly well figure out how to spell "surprise" right, in the incredibly rare cases when they accidentally mistype it and don't get a LifeWiki article match. Dvgrn (talk) 14:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Category:Polyominos

I propose that recently created Category:Polyominos should be renamed to Category:Polyominoes, to follow S. W. Golomb. See also polyomino. The actual renaming will involve editing every page in the category - otherwise I probably would just do it myself. Confocal (talk) 07:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

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