Thread for basic questions

[amling]

Does anyone have an example of one vacuum-incompatible velocity dragging another? To rule out trivial examples I would probably demand they not be collinear and that both sides have their own bit of signal distinct from the wave-like signal joining them.

As an example of what I mean, here is a partial for a 2c/7d back for 2-staggered ants:

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 154, rule = B3/S23
30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$
29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo
2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$
30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2b
o$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$
30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$
29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$30b2o$30b2o$29bo2bo$29bo2bo2$28b2o$28b2o$27bo2bo$27bo
2bo2$26b2o$26b2o$25bo2bo$25bo2bo2$24b2o$24b2o$23bo2bo$23bo2bo2$22b2o$
22b2o$21bo2bo$21bo2bo2$20b2o$20b2o$19bo2bo$19bo2bo2$18b2o$18b2o$17bo2b
o$17bo2bo2$16b2o$16b2o$15bo2bo$15bo2bo2$14b2o$14b2o$13bo2bo$13bo2bo2$
12b2o$12b2o$11bo2bo$11bo2bo2$10b2o$10b2o$9bo2bo$9bo2bo2$8b2o$8b2o$7bo
2bo$7bo2bo2$6b2o$6b2o$5b2obo$5bo4bo$4bo3bo2bo$5b2o6b3o$4bo4bo2b3o$3b3o
b2ob2o5bo$3bo3bobo6bo$2b2ob3o7bo$3bob3obob3o2bo2$bobo3b3o2bobo$bo6b2ob
o$o3b2ob2ob2o$b2ob2o5bo$5bo$6bo$7b2o!

If completed (which it's not clear to me is mathematically possible, much less practically possible), it would be c/1 north dragging 2c/7d northwest.

I would also accept examples where the wave joining them is some sort of puffer or spreader, e.g. this (if I put a more interesting 2/c3 front on it and completed the back it in some sense) would be 2c/3 north dragging (2, 1)c/5 NNW:

Code: Select all

x = 52, y = 83, rule = B3/S23
50bo$50b2o$49bo$48b4o$47bo$47b5o$46bo$45b7o$44bo$44b8o$43bo$42b10o$41b
o$41b11o$40bo$39b13o$38bo$38b14o$37bo$36b16o$35bo$35b17o$34bo$33b19o$
32bo$32b20o$31bo$30b22o$29bo$29b23o$28bo$27b25o$26bo$26b26o$25bo$24b
28o$23bo$23b29o$22bo$21b31o$20bo$20b32o$19bo$18b34o$17bo$17b35o$16bo$
15b37o$14bo$14b38o$13bo$12b40o$11bo$11b41o$10bo$9b43o$8bo$8b44o$7bo$6b
46o$5bo$5b47o$4bo$3b49o$2bo5bo$bo2bo6b41o$b2o6b3o$b2o9b40o$b2o9bo$3o7b
o3b38o$o3b4obob2obo$o3bo4bo3b39o$o14bo$obo3bob3ob3o4b33o$bob2o2bo4bobo
3bo$4b3obobob2obo3b33o$6bo4b3o2bob2o$6b2obo3bobo5b31o$8bo2b4o2bo$7b4ob
2o2b2o4b30o$5b6o3b3ob5o$4b2o2bo3bo7bob30o$4b2obo3bo5b2o!

I haven't completed full effort on the search projects that produced these two but I am not particularly optimistic based on how the partials are looking so far.

[confocaloid]

What, what is considered flipping? (Honestly I have no clue on what is considered flipping, up-down or left-right?)

180 degree rotation. You can see examples of "B" vs. "Bx" in the current Patterns/Life/Signal-Circuitry/h-to-h-collection stamp collection.

Based on forum search results, 'flipping' is ill-defined. Depending on the author and the context, it may mean vertical/horizontal mirror reflection, or it may mean diagonal mirror reflection, or it may mean 180-degree rotation.

However, in the context of conduit inputs/outputs, 'flipped' generally means mirror reflection of the active object (as opposed to rotation). So one can say that the output Herschel in conduits like Fx77, Fx119 is flipped relative to the input Herschel, while the output Herschel in conduits like B60 is turned 180 degrees relative to the input Herschel.

[otismo]

@ dvgrn

Great !

Thank You !

Now we need to convert "out of the blue reaction"

to Deliberate Purposeful...

Cheers !

[dvgrn]

However, in the context of conduit inputs/outputs, 'flipped' generally means mirror reflection of the active object (as opposed to rotation). So one can say that the output Herschel in conduits like Fx77, Fx119 is flipped relative to the input Herschel, while the output Herschel in conduits like B60 is turned 180 degrees relative to the input Herschel.

All totally true. The answer I gave was terribly confusing -- I was trying to say that the "B" in "B170" meant "180-degree rotation", but it ended up sounding like the term "flip" was supposed to mean 180-degree rotation. Sometimes it does mean that, which makes things even more confusing -- but in that context, the "x" is the part of the conduit naming system that means a mirror-image "flip" (compared to the same name without an "x").

squareroot12621's nice diagram was a much better answer than mine. That might be an example of the kind of pattern where "viewer" tags are okay, and even a definite improvement over "code" or "pattern" tags. Or an inline image could work, I suppose, but it might take up more space than a THUMBNAILed viewer:

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
19.D5.D$19.D5.D$19.D5.D3.D.D$19.D5.D4.D$19.3D3.3D.D.D3$19.3D3.3D$20.D
5.D$18.3D5.3D7$2D38.3D$D.D8.D23.D4.D$2D2.D.D2.D.D23.D.D2.3D$D.D2.D3.3D
23.3D2.D$2D2.D.D2.D12.A14.D2.D$22.A.A$22.3A$24.A$4.2D3.D27.D2.3D$4.D.
D2.3D23.3D2.D$4.2D3.D.D23.D.D2.3D.D.D$4.D.D4.D23.D4.D4.D$4.2D34.D3.D.
D6$18.3D5.3D$20.D5.D$19.3D3.3D3$15.2D8.2D$15.D.D7.D.D$15.2D2.D.D3.2D$
15.D.D2.D4.D.D$15.D.D.D.D3.D.D!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 4 HEIGHT 800 ZOOM 16 ]]

[dbell]

The pseudo-random number generators I know of in Life use a loop of cycling objects (e.g. gliders) such that some of the objects in the loop destroy several other objects in the loop, with a gun which replaces the lost objects.

This can produce periods which are like 2^N, where N is the number of cycling objects.

Is this the only way that a pseudo-random number generator can work?

In particular, can a 'waterfall' generator be created where objects are arranged like in a Pascal Triangle, with interactions side-to-side and downwards only, but nothing upwards?

I am guessing that such a thing could produce some nice looking output, but that the period could not be exponential for its size.

For background:

I ask this because for diagonal c/4 technology, creating a loop of gliders is very hard. The uphill climb of a glider depends on a kickback reaction stream, which is limited to only transporting one glider at a time. So the only 'loop' I have built has only one glider in it (and maybe I can get two in the loop). Making the loop larger doesn't seem to help.

Perhaps I could get more gliders in the loop by using multiple kickback streams, and boosting a glider multiple times using successive streams. Then while the first glider is on an upper stream, another glider could be started on a lower stream. Maybe I can have an arbitrary number of upward gliders by having enough kickback streams to run them. But I'm not sure it could work.

BCNU,
-dbell

[dvgrn]

Maybe I can have an arbitrary number of upward gliders by having enough kickback streams to run them. But I'm not sure it could work.

Heh, that sounds just about as workable as having a bunch of c/4 rakes constructing the front end of a 2c/3 wire, and gradually eroding the back end of the wire while sending occasional signals through it.

... Is there a way to show that that definitely can't be made to work?

[Grasshopper8128]

Has anyone built a spaceship that can be adjusted to have any velocity (any speed and slope) below c/2 in the L1 metric?
If yes, where can I see it and read an explanation of its design?
If no, why?

[AlbertArmStain]

Has anyone built a spaceship that can be adjusted to have any velocity (any speed and slope) below c/2 in the L1 metric?
If yes, where can I see it and read an explanation of its design?
If no, why?

We have tried here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5588

But not all speeds can be achieved because of the timing

[Haycat2009]

I am not sure whether this belongs here, but nobody has answered. Can every rule with a 90 degree ref, eater, duplicator and gun with compatible period be proven Turing-complete using something like the 8-bit programmable computer?

[dvgrn]

I am not sure whether this belongs here, but nobody has answered. Can every rule with a 90 degree ref, eater, duplicator and gun with compatible period be proven Turing-complete using something like the 8-bit programmable computer?

Probably. Not quite sure. Is it theoretically possible to have a rule with a 90-degree reflector, a signal splitter, and an eater -- you don't need to mention "gun" because you can build as many of those as you want with the other three -- where it is nonetheless impossible to build a memory cell?

Seems like once you have a memory cell, you're going to be able to build whatever computing circuitry you want.

You can... usually... build a memory cell out of 90-degree reflectors plus a merge circuit -- so maybe "merge circuit" should be the fourth required mechansim in the list in the question, instead of "gun". (?) There might still be some weird rule where signals can't be arranged to suppress each other directly, though, so a merge circuit still doesn't quite guarantee universal computation. Maybe just have the fourth item be "memory cell", then?

[ClippyCosmologist]

I am not sure whether this belongs here, but nobody has answered. Can every rule with a 90 degree ref, eater, duplicator and gun with compatible period be proven Turing-complete using something like the 8-bit programmable computer?

Probably. Not quite sure. Is it theoretically possible to have a rule with a 90-degree reflector, a signal splitter, and an eater -- you don't need to mention "gun" because you can build as many of those as you want with the other three -- where it is nonetheless impossible to build a memory cell?

Seems like once you have a memory cell, you're going to be able to build whatever computing circuitry you want.

You can... usually... build a memory cell out of 90-degree reflectors plus a merge circuit -- so maybe "merge circuit" should be the fourth required mechansim in the list in the question, instead of "gun". (?) There might still be some weird rule where signals can't be arranged to suppress each other directly, though, so a merge circuit still doesn't quite guarantee universal computation. Maybe just have the fourth item be "memory cell", then?

I believe an (A AND NOT B) gate together with a splitter and eater should be sufficient for turing completeness. Reflectors and guns should be buildable from just splitters and eaters - for the reflector, cap one output of the splitter with an eater, and for the gun, arrange four splitters in a loop and cap the excess barrels with eaters. And it should be possible to build a rule with splitters, eaters, reflectors and guns but no (A AND NOT B) gate by simply making any interaction between two spaceships result in an explosion. But most rules with a splitter and eater should have an (A AND NOT B) gate (if there's any way for one spaceship to cleanly eat or annihilate with another at a different angle, that suffices to build one).

[b-engine]

Is there any way to weld loading dock and xp2_y1giligz4a40v210g8v04a4zy119l91 so that the rotors interact with each other? The resulting oscillator can be trivial, but the rotors must touch each other.
You can also weld the big scrubber with grin reagent (weld loading dock) to make LCM oscillators.

Code: Select all

# I prefer to call the right one big scrubber due to it's resemblance, 
# also I'm interested in this billiard if it can interact with other things through drifter

x = 56, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
36bo11bo$35bobo9bobo$11b2o21bobobo9bo$4b2ob2o2bo7bo14bobobo$5bobobobo
5b3o6b2o4b2o4b2o6b5o$2obobo3bob2o3bo3b2o4bo2bobobobobo7bobo3bo$ob2ob2o
2bo5bob2o3bo5b2obo3bobo4bo2b2o4bo2bo$4bo2bobob2o3bo3b2obo7bo2b2ob2o2b
obobo5bobobo$4bob2obob2o4b2o3bo5b2obobo2bo5bo2bo4b2o2bo$5bo2bo10b3o6b
2obob2obo8bo3bobo$6bo12bo12bo2bo10b5o$3b3o28bo$3bo31b3o10bo$37bo9bobo
$48bo!

[otismo]

This G to MWSS Converter is only 20 cells away from being the "perfect" Edge Shooter - anybody got a fix ?

Code: Select all

x = 223, y = 228, rule = B3/S23
35b2o$35bobo5b2o$37bo4bobo$33b4ob2o2bo8b2ob2o$33bo2bobobob2o8bobo$36bo
bobobo4b2obo5bob2o$37b2obobo3bobob2o3b2obobo9bo$41bo3bo6bobo6bo8b3o$
45b7o3b7o11bo$27b2o43b2o11b2o$28bo7b2o9b3o7b3o25b2o30bo$28bobo5b2o8bo
2bo3bo3bo2bo54bo3bo$29b2o15b2o4bobo4b2o59bo86b2o$52bobo60bo4bo83b3ob2o
$53bo62b5o83b5o$205b3o11b2o$219bobo$98b2o121bo$60b2o36bo122b2o$39b2o
19b2o34bobo22bo$39bo3bo52b2o5b2o14b5o$40b4o8b2o50bo13bo5bo$52bobo49bob
o12b3o2bo$42b2o10b2o13bo3b2o30b2o15bob2o$42bobo7bobo13bobo3bo44b4o2bo$
14bo29bo7b2o4b2o7bobo3bo40b2o3bo3b2o$12b3o29b3o11bobo6bo4bo12b2o27b2o
4b3o$11bo30b2o3bo12bo5b2o5b3o9bo36bo$11b2o28bo2b2o2bo11b2o13bo10b3o33b
ob2o$41b2obobobo6b2o31bo32b2ob2o$8b2o34bob2o7bo$8bobo33bobo9b3o$9b2o
32b2obobo9bo54b2o$25b2o20b2o19b2o43bo$11bo13bo15bo26bobo43b3o$10bobo
10bobo15b3o26bo4b2o39bo$5bobo2bob2o9b2o19bo21b4ob2o2bo2bo7b2o$5bobo3bo
bo29b2o21bo2bobobobob2o8bo$8bo3b2o38b2o15bobobobo9bo$6bobo3b2o37bobo
16b2obobo9b5o14b2o$6b4o42bo21bo15bo13bo$2b2o5bob2o74b3o12bobo$bobo56b
2o24bo15b2o$bo38b2o19bo7b2o15b4o$2o10b3o25b2o19bobo5b2o13b2o3bo3b2o$
11bo2b2o46b2o19bo2b3o4b2o$11b2o70b2obo$86bo14b2o$86b2o13bobo$9b2o3b2o
85bo$10bo3bo6b2o3bo$7b3o5b3o3bo3bobo66b2o$7bo9bo4bo3bobo43b2o21bo$23bo
4bo43bo19b3o$20b3o5b2o43b3o16bo$20bo33b2o19bo$53bo2bo$53bobo$54bo$50b
2o$51bo$48b3o14b2o60b2o$48bo16bobo59bo$67bo61bo$58b3o6b2o40b2o14b5o$
58bo2bo45bo2bo13bo$57bo3bo32bobo10b2obobo12b3o$57b3o2bo32b2o12bob2o15b
o$45b2o11b4o33bo13bo15b4o$46bo2b2o56b3o10b2o3bo3b2o$46bobobo13b2o40bo
13b2o4b3o2bo$47bo7bobo6bobo39b2o20bob2o$55b2o9bo61bo$49bo6bo9b2o59b2o$
48bobo$49bo$46b3o70b2o$46bo72bo$96b2o22b3o$95bobo5b2o17bo$95bo7b2o$94b
2o$45bo8b2o9b2o$45b3o6b2o5b2o2bobo40bo$48bo12bobobo2bo35b2obobo$41b2o
4b2o14bobob2o34bobobobo$42bo19b2obo34bo2bobobobob2o$42bobo20bob2o31b4o
b2o2bo2bo$43b2o20bobo2bo33bo4b2o$60b2o4bo2b2o31bobo$46b2o11bo2bo39b2o$
45bo2bo11b2o4bo2b2o$46bobo16bobo2bo$47bo17bob2o$62b2obo$40b2o21bobob2o
$40bo2bob2o14bobobo2bo$41b3obobo13b2o2bobo$45bobo17b2o$41b5ob3o$41bo4b
o3bo$44bobo2b2o$44b2o11$73bo$72b2o$72bobo22$83bo$81b3o38b2o$65bo14bo
41bo$65b3o12b2o38bobo$68bo47b2o2b2o$67b2o17bo29b2o$85bobo4b2o$92bobo$
68b2o17bo6bo$68b2o17bo3bob2o$83bo3bo2b2o$87bo3b2o$83bo3b2o$84b2obo$86b
o2$84b2o36b2o$84bo19b2o16bobo$86bo16bobo18bo$66b2o17b2o16bo20b2o$66b2o
13b2o19b2o4b2o$81bo24bo2bo$82b3o21b2o$84bo30b2o$115b2o$48b2o$47bo2bo$
47bobo2bo27bo$48bo4bo25b2o$53bo$49b3o25b3o2bo$63bobo13bobobo41b2o$38b
2o24b2o14bo2bo41bo$39bo24b2o15b2o40bobo$39bobo6bo74b2o$40b2o5b3o$46bo
3bo68b2o$45b2o2b2o69b2o$46b2o71bo$47b2o24b2o$48b2o23bo$50bo9b2o12b3o$
49b2o9b2o14bo32b2o$109b2o3$51b2o$51b2o32bo14b2o9b2o$85b3o12b2o9bo$88bo
23b2o$87b2o24b2o$42bo71b2o$40b2o69b2o2b2o$41b2o68bo3bo$112b3o5b2o$37b
2o74bo6bobo$36bobo40b2o15b2o24bo$36bo41bo2bo14b2o24b2o$35b2o41bobobo
13bobo$79bo2b3o25b3o$108bo$81b2o25bo4bo$81bo27bo2bobo$111bo2bo$112b2o$
45b2o$45b2o30bo$54b2o21b3o$52bo2bo24bo$52b2o4b2o19b2o13b2o$36b2o20bo
16b2o17b2o$37bo18bobo16bo$37bobo16b2o19bo$38b2o36b2o2$75bo$74bob2o$73b
2o3bo$69b2o3bo$70b2o2bo3bo$67b2obo3bo17b2o$67bo6bo17b2o$67bobo$68b2o4b
obo$44b2o29bo17b2o$40b2o2b2o47bo$39bobo38b2o12b3o$39bo23b2o16bo14bo$
38b2o23bo14b3o$64b3o11bo$66bo!

Thank You !

[Haycat2009]

Why are oscillators with extremely high voltality rarer than others of similar size and period?

[Sokwe]

Does anyone have an example of one vacuum-incompatible velocity dragging another?

I am not aware of any such patterns. I doubt they've been searched for much if at all, and I can't think of any easy way to construct an examples hand, other than those that you showed. It seems like you would have to take some arbitrary low-period wicks and waves and find connecting components between them. Useful waves could be the following from jslife which you may have already considered:

Code: Select all

x = 149, y = 68, rule = B3/S23
13$17bobo16bo68b3o$17b2o13bo2bo14b2o19b2o32bo$5bo12bo13bobo15b2o19b2o
15bobobo12bo$17bo15bo15bo2bo17bo2bo$5bo11bobo29bo2bo17bo2bo18bo11b3o
36bo$18bo14b2o69bo38b3o$5bo11bo14bobo14b2o18b2o17bobobo11bo36bo$17bo
13b2o16b2o18b2o70b3o$5bo11b2o29bo2bo16bo2bo16bo14b3o33bo$17b2o29bo2bo
16bo2bo31bo35b3o$5bo10b2o14bobo53bobobo10bo33bo$16bo14bobo14b2o17b2o
68b3o$32bo15b2o17b2o33b3o30bo$16bobo13b2o13bo2bo15bo2bo32bo32b3o$16b2o
14b2o13bo2bo15bo2bo32bo30bo$17bo12b2obo99b3o$16bo13b3o14b2o16b2o34b3o
27bo$16bobo28b2o16b2o34bo29b3o$17bo28bo2bo14bo2bo33bo27bo$16bo14b2o13b
o2bo14bo2bo61b3o$16bo13bobo67b3o24bo$16b2o12bo15b2o15b2o35bo26b3o$16b
2o12bo15b2o15b2o35bo24bo$15b2o16bo11bo2bo13bo2bo59b3o$15bo13bo2bo12bo
2bo13bo2bo33b3o21bo$29bobo67bo23b3o$15bobo12bo14b2o14b2o36bo21bo$15b2o
28b2o14b2o58b3o$16bo13b2o12bo2bo12bo2bo34b3o18bo$15bo13bobo12bo2bo12bo
2bo34bo20b3o$15bobo10b2o68bo18bo$16bo27b2o13b2o56b3o$15bo28b2o13b2o36b
3o15bo$15bo13bobo11bo2bo11bo2bo35bo17b3o$15b2o11bobo12bo2bo11bo2bo35bo
15bo$15b2o12bo83b3o$14b2o13b2o12b2o12b2o37b3o$14bo14b2o12b2o12b2o37bo$
27b2obo11bo2bo10bo2bo36bo$14bobo10b3o12bo2bo10bo2bo$14b2o79b3o$15bo26b
2o11b2o38bo$14bo13b2o12b2o11b2o38bo$14bobo10bobo11bo2bo9bo2bo$15bo11bo
13bo2bo9bo2bo$14bo12bo$14bo15bo$14b2o10bo2bo$14b2o10bobo$13b2o12bo$13b
o!

Such a wave could potentially connect to various p1 or p2 wicks which could be considered to "travel" much like the ants wick.

[dvgrn]

This G to MWSS Converter is only 20 cells away from being the "perfect" Edge Shooter - anybody got a fix ?

I'm getting 19 cells when I try to measure the distance that the MWSS output lane would have to move upward, to clear the top edge of the pattern. Is that what the "20 cells away" refers to?

There are certainly lots of known ways to make a fully edge-shooting X-to-MWSS converter.

This gun by chris_c seems to have somewhat better clearance, 14 if I'm measuring right.

There's an old standard 4-glider recipe, similar to the one in nokangaroo's p46 LWSS gun but not quite the same, that can make either an LWSS or an MWSS on the very edge. Just build a blinker from one side, then follow it with the two ignition gliders as shown in Pre-pre-block, and you'll get an edge-shooting MWSS.

Somewhere out there is a converter I put together that does this, using the standard ship that a Herschel produces as the target object, making a maximally edgy MWSS if I remember right. The circuitry would be highly archaic by now though. EDIT: Yup, that was the "three-digit post" -- definitely ancient.

Would just have to make a modern three-synchronized-signal version of that with the top H-to-2G, bottom H-to-G, and central Herschel, and optionally advance the glider from the bottom H-to-G by one tick to get an MWSS instead of an LWSS. Or has someone done that already, and I missed documenting it in Stable signal converters?

[confocaloid]

I don't seem to be able to determine the origin of the name "inverted frutterfly". Where it came from?
I checked the Catagolue object page, Niemiec's lifesrch, and forum search.

[Haycat2009]

What is the difference between a wire and a reburnable fuse? They seem to be synonyms.

[confocaloid]

When we speak of Period-28 glider gun, do we refer to p7 or p4 form?

A period-28 glider gun is any glider gun that emits a period-28 glider stream.

If you instead want to refer to a specific pattern, then you have to be more specific. (i.e. "the first known true period 28 glider gun", "the smallest (by the area of the bounding box) known true period 28 glider gun", "the smallest (by population) known pseudo period 28 glider gun", and so on. Or simply post the specific pattern, or link to a specific pattern.)

What is the difference between a wire and a reburnable fuse? They seem to be synonyms.

Wires are stateless. A wire must reappear in the exact same location after the pulse passes along the wire. A consequence is that arbitrarily-timed pulses can be sent along a wire (as long as they are not too close to each other), without bothering to keep track of the current phase/location of the wire (because it always remains the same).

A reburnable fuse does not have to reappear in the exact same location or with the same phase, when it burns. It can reappear shifted in space and/or in time.

[rattlesnake]

What is the smallest negative spaceship in zebra stripes agar that travels against the grain at 2c/3?
I think I remember seeing an asymmetrical one that is quite small.

[confocaloid]

What is the smallest negative spaceship in zebra stripes agar that travels against the grain at 2c/3?
I think I remember seeing an asymmetrical one that is quite small.

As an upper bound, here are bubbles from jslife-20121230:

Code: Select all

#CHartmut Holzwart, Apr '06.
x = 160, y = 105, rule = B3/S23
3bobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo
bbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo
bbobbobbobbobbobbo$b158o$o158bo$b158o$$b158o$o158bo$b158o$$b158o$o158b
o$b158o$$b158o$o158bo$b158o$$b158o$o158bo$b158o$$b158o$o158bo$b158o$$b
158o$o158bo$b158o$$b158o$o158bo$b101obb3obb7obb3obb16o4b16o$$b99o4bobo
4b3o4bobo4b13o6b15o$o99bo9bo3bo9bo13bo4bo15bo$b79obb19o9b5o9b15o4b16o$
15boo3boo79bo7bo5bo7bo13b8o$b12o5bo5b23obb3obb24o6b19o5b9o5b13o4bobbo
4b12o$o12bo4bo4bo54bo4bo18bo5bo7bo5bo12bo3bobbo3bo12bo$b12o11b21o4bobo
4b23o4b17obbo5bobb3obbo5bobb10o12b12o$14bo7bo22bo9bo44bobob3obobo3bobo
b3obobo11bo8bo$b6o4b4o7b4o4b16o9b21o3b4o3b15obobobobob5obobobobob13o8b
14o$o14bo5bo24bo7bo25boo22bobo11bobo16bo6bo14bo$b5o6b5o3b5o6b17o5b22o
12b15obbobobb7obbobobb16o4b16o$6bo4bo4bo3bo4bo4bo16bo5bo21bo10bo16boob
oo9booboo$b7obbobbobob3obobobbobb16obbo5bobb21o8b15o11b3o11b11o3b4o3b
13o$o8bo4bobo3bobo4bo17bobob3obobo21bo6bo15bobbooboobbo3bobbooboobbo
15boo17bo$b9o3bo3b3o3bo3b13obb4obobobobob4obb17o6b17o23b11o12b12o$13b
oo3bo3boo21bobobobobobo16boo4bo4bo4boo11bo8booboo8bo11bo10bo$b13o9b15o
6booboboboboboo6b7o6b4obb4o6b11o19b15o8b14o$o14b7o16bo8bobobobo8bo7bo
3boo3bobbo3boo3bo11bo6booboo6bo15bo6bo14bo$b38o8bobobobo8b8o9bobbo9b
12o5boo3boo5b17o6b15o$39bo6bobbobobbo6bo9bo5bo6bo5bo13bo3bobbobobbo3bo
17bo4bo$b13o9b18o6bobobobo6b12o6bo4bo6b16obbobbobobbobb18o3boo3b14o$o
40bo7bobo7bo12bo4boobooboo4bo16bobobbobobbobo21boo17bo$b11o13b17o5bobo
bobo5b15o4bo4bo4b17oboboo5boobob15o12b12o$12bobbobbobbobbo17bo5booboo
5bo15boo4boo4boo18boboo5boobo16bo10bo$b11obb3obob3obb19o3bobobobo3b13o
bb3obobbobbobbob3obb12obbobboo3boobbobb15o10b13o$o15bobobo25booboboboo
22b3obb3o19boboo3bobo3boobo15bo8bo13bo$b11obboo5boobb16o3boobobobobob
oo3b8o6b3obo4bob3o6b11o7bo7b18o6b15o$12boobbo3bobboo24bobo16bo4bo14bo
4bo9b19o16bo4bo$b10o4b7o4b14o4bo4bobo4bo4b8o8bo6bo8b8o23b15o4b16o$o39b
o4bobbooboobbo4bo8bo3boobbobboobbobboo3bo8bo4boobb5obboo4bo13b8o14bo$b
9o7b3o7b15o3bo3bobo3bo3b12o5boboobboobo5b10o4bo13bo4b11o4bobbo4b12o$
10bo6b3o6bo15bo5booboo5bo12bobboboo6boobobbo11bo9bo9bo12bo3bobbo3bo$b
11o13b19o13b15o3boo8boo3b13o8bobo8b13o12b12o$o11bo3b5o3bo19bo3bo3bo3bo
16bo14bo14bo6booboo6bo14bo8bo13bo$b13obbobobobb22ob3o3b3ob23o4b22o5bo
3bo5b17o8b14o$14bo3bo3bo22bo9bo23b4o22bo3bobobobo3bo17bo6bo$b13ob7ob
22ob9ob24obb24o13b20o4b16o$o105bo5bo5bo40bo$b107o3b3o3b19o3b4o3b13o$
108bobb3obbo23boo$b109o5b20o12b12o$o134bo10bo12bo$b109o5b22o8b14o$110b
obobo22bo6bo$b109o5b23o6b15o$o111bo19boo4bo4bo4boo9bo$b129o6b4obb4o6b
7o$130bo3boo3bobbo3boo3bo$b129o9bobbo9b7o$o21boo3boo7boo93bo5bo6bo5bo
8bo$b19o5bo5b3o6b10obb80o6bo4bo6b9o$7boo6boo3bo4bo4bo3boo3bo92bo4boob
ooboo4bo$b4o6boo6bo11bo12b4o6bobb5obb6obb5obb55o4bo4bo4b11o$o4bo4bobb
oo3bobbo7bo9boo7bo5bo46boo31boo4boo4boo11bo$b4o14b3o7b4o12bobboo3bo5bo
6boo6bo6bobb15o6b7obb16obb3obobbobbobbob3obb7o$6bo5bo4boo3bo5bo4bo5boo
4bo3bo3boo3bobo4bobbo4bobo5bo17bo4bo32b3obb3o$b6o9booboobo4b7ob3obo7bo
booboo3booboobboobboobbooboo3bo3bo4b6obboo6boobbo6b12o6b3obo4bob3o6b5o
$o6bo6boo6boobbo7booboboo5boo3bo8bo3boobboo3bobbo3booboo14boobbo5bo5bo
12bo4bo14bo4bo5bo$b8o5boobbo4bobbobb5o7boo4bobb9o5boobboo5b3oboobboo9b
4obb3o4bo7b14o8bo6bo8b6o$9bo3bobbobobbo10boobobobboboob3o11bo3bobobbob
o3bo3bo4bobbob3o5bobobobo5bo5bo14bo3boobbobboobbobboo3bo$b10obb3obboo
bboobobobo4boobobobboboobb11oboboboobboobobob9obobb3o5boobbobb3ob3o3b
18o5boboobboobo5b8o$o10bo10boobobbobobo4bobbobo4bo13bo10bo18bo3bo8bobo
4boo18bobboboo6boobobbo8bo$b10ob9oboobboobob11ob49obb10ob6ob20o3boo8b
oo3b9o$30bo62bo39bo14bo$b92ob45o4b16o$o138b4o16bo$b139obb17o$$b158o$o
158bo$b158o$3bobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo
bbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo
bbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo!

edit: here is a smaller asymmetric bubble (from the forum thread Agar crawlers)

Sorry for necroposting, but
I found this asymmetric 2c/3o against the grain bubble with LLS and I think this is the right place to post it (The recent threads discuss lightspeed signals)

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 29, rule = B3/S23:T30,30
30o2$30o2$30o2$30o2$20o2b8o$21b2o$17o4bo2b6o$16b2obo2b2o$16o4b2o2b6o$
14bo3bo2b3o$12ob2o3b3o3b6o$11bo11bo$11obobo2bobo4b6o$9bo9b3o$9o5b2obo
2b10o$8bo5bob2o2bo$8o6b2o6b8o$16bo4bo$10o2b4o6b8o$18b2o$30o2$30o2$30o!

Also, LLS very quickly reported in preprocessing that there are no c/2o against the grain bubbles (Has it been proven impossible?), I checked until 30x30. DETAIL: It's only for p2 c/2, it did not do the same when I increased period to 4...

It's amazing how small this is compared to the symmetric versions upthread. This was one of those times when imposing symmetry on a search was a mistake!

[dvgrn]

What is the difference between a wire and a reburnable fuse? They seem to be synonyms.

They're not quite synonyms, though they're definitely on a continuum. "Wire" pretty universally refers to a connected clump of cells, with some unit of repetition. Things that have been called "reburnable fuses" are pretty much always disconnected repeating constellations of small common ash objects.

It's not that you _couldn't_ call a 2c/3 wire a "reburnable fuse", or call a 31c/240 reburnable-fuse block trail a "wire" -- it's just that you _wouldn't_, because "wire" describes 2c/3 wires better, and "reburnable fuse" describes 31c/240 block trails better.

[confocaloid]

The main distinction is not connectedness/density. What makes the difference is lack of displacement or change of phase.

As an example, the reaction below is a reburnable fuse. But it is not a wire, because the beehives are displaced after every pulse.

Now, in this case, a pair of pulse reactions that are mirror images of each other displaces the beehives in just one direction. And the overall effect of five such pairs of pulses is "no change to the infinite wick". Therefore this particular reburnable fuse can still be made into a wire, using five pairs of pulses to carry one signal.
(The signal can be encoded/decoded in the exact timing of one of these 10 pulses, or in the tuple of exact timings of all 10 pulses, or simply in the distinction between sending 10 pulses at time T versus not sending anything at time T, or in some other way.)

However, other reburnable fuses (in particular oblique fuses) will not generally lead to wires, because there will be no way to restore the wick to the original location and phase, no matter what sequence of pulses is sent along.

Code: Select all

x = 162, y = 8, rule = B3/S23:T162,40
107b3o$99bo6b5o$43bo6b3o7b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b6o4b2obo2bo$o3b
2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b6o4b6o5b2o2bo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bob
o6bo2b2o2bob2o4b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3bo$bobo2bobo2bobo2b
obo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo6bo2b2o2bob2o4b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b6o4b
6o5b2o2bo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo2bobo$o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b
2o3b2o3b2o3b6o4b2obo2bo43bo6b3o7b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3bo
$43bo6b5o$51b3o!

[dvgrn]

The main distinction is not connectedness/density. What makes the difference is lack of displacement or change of phase.

True, a reburnable fuse that gets displaced isn't necessarily a wire (until enough signals are sent along it to restore it).

The connectedness (or at least proximity) still seems relevant, though. Send 31 Herschel pairs through an infinite pair of block trails and you'll get the blocks back in the same locations -- but I've never heard anyone try to call those block trails a "wire". They're just way too sparse. "Wire" isn't exactly wrong, but "reburnable fuse" will convey a more accurate mental picture of what the block trails look like.

Conversely, the beehive chain in a telegraph is a single quasi-still-life object -- not strongly connected, but not well-separated either, and so people do routinely call it "beehive wire".

(Hmm, something must have changed in that article -- "beehive wire" now redirects to an irrelevant place... Yup, it made sense in 2018 when orthogonal telegraph "lightspeed wire" was mentioned, but now that redirect has become very mysterious. Probably need to add a sentence back in there mentioning beehive wire and pointing to telegraph.)

As usual, there are some interesting edge cases. For example, imagine a self-constructing spaceship where two Gemini-like halves traveled diagonally like a Demonoid, passed MWSS construction recipes back and forth between each other like an Orthogonoid, but there was also a beehive-wire connection where just one signal was passed from one half to the other in every cycle. The minor attrition at the ends would get rebuilt as needed, since the whole structure at each end would have to be destroyed and rebuilt anyway to manage a (1,1) offset with every cycle.

That would be a minor test for the current "wire" definition. The wire would be moving, never returning to its original location, and yet in another sense a signal would be traveling along it and making "no permanent change to the pattern".

[confocaloid]

The main distinction is not connectedness/density. What makes the difference is lack of displacement or change of phase.

True, a reburnable fuse that gets displaced isn't necessarily a wire (until enough signals are sent along it to restore it).

I would not want to describe pulses as "signals", though. This is incorrect (the beehives are not restored to the original location after a single pulse), and leads to confusion between two different ideas (reburnable fuses vs. wires).
To be able to send just one signal along the beehive chain in a telegraph, one needs to send 10 pulses.

Again, for some other reburnable fuses, it will be impossible to send any signal at all, even though it will be possible to send pulses (each of which will displace the fuse). Such fuses are not wires.

As usual, there are some interesting edge cases. For example, imagine a self-constructing spaceship where two Gemini-like halves traveled diagonally like a Demonoid, passed MWSS construction recipes back and forth between each other like an Orthogonoid, but there was also a beehive-wire connection where just one signal was passed from one half to the other in every cycle. The minor attrition at the ends would get rebuilt as needed, since the whole structure at each end would have to be destroyed and rebuilt anyway to manage a (1,1) offset with every cycle.

That would be a minor test for the current "wire" definition. The wire would be moving, never returning to its original location, and yet in another sense a signal would be traveling along it and making "no permanent change to the pattern".

I think there is no actual wire, in the scenario you described. There would be only a reburnable fuse, that always gets displaced by one cell diagonally, after every pulse.

A different scenario would be, if the beehive chain was the only thing that connects the two halves together. Otherwise, each of two halves would be a giant contraption. The beehive chain would then be used as an actual (although temporary) wire. Every transmitted signal would be carried by a group of 10 consecutive pulses. Some information would be sent from one half to another half via this temporary wire. The beehive chain would stay in place during that stage.
At some point later, when all communication is already done, the beehive chain would be moved to a new location (which would be accomplished by sending a single additional pulse). At the same time, both contraptions at the ends would be moved in the same direction.

In this case, the wires would always be temporary (the beehive chain is used only finitely many times as a wire, before it is permanently moved away from its old location).