Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

A forum where anything goes. Introduce yourselves to other members of the forums, discuss how your name evolves when written out in the Game of Life, or just tell us how you found it. This is the forum for "non-academic" content.
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b-engine
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 11th, 2024, 9:56 am

Yoel wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 9:43 am
Quoting the wiki: There is no precise measure of naturalness

I know the term, but I used it confusingly too loosely... sorry.
confocaloid wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 9:53 am
It did appear (mixed with some ash) from an initial soup in C1. (The soups are below, with links in pattern comments.)

[Soups]

Hence it technically counts as "natural in the Catagolue-inspired sense" (i.e., if you define "natural" to be "has a legitimate C1 occurrence on Catagolue").

That being said, I'm not sure whether objects that are very rare in C1 should be considered natural.
For example, if a rare object has appeared only once or twice in b3s23/C1, that basically means it is very unnatural. There are no common easy reactions that allow this object to be formed.
The definition according to Catagolue, as well as my standard definition is
LifeWiki wrote:Less strictly, an object is said to occur naturally if it has been found in the ash of an asymmetric random soup at least once; the object in question may then also be said to be natural, e.g. "a natural Coe ship" (even though it forms rarely, and is not very natural in the above sense).

Objects found in the ash of symmetric random soups are said to occur semi-naturally (or sometimes almost naturally). The dart is an example of a semi-natural pattern, having appeared in soups with bilateral symmetry.
Or else, the very first haul from apgsearch to Catagolue will have the block as well as the other common objects being unnatural. Also we don't have an exact number for how many C1 occurence in order for an object to be natural.
Last edited by b-engine on April 11th, 2024, 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 11th, 2024, 10:01 am

b-engine wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 9:56 am
LifeWiki wrote:[...] a natural object is one that occurs often in the ash of random patterns. There is no precise measure of naturalness, since the most useful definition of "random" in this context is open to debate; nonetheless, objects such as blocks, blinkers, beehives and gliders are very natural and appear in the majority of soups, while objects such as figure eights and queen bee shuttles are less natural, occurring rarely. [...]
--------
b-engine wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 9:56 am
[...]
Or else, the very first haul from apgsearch to Catagolue will have the block as well as the other common objects being unnatural. Also we don't have an exact number for how many C1 occurence in order for an object to be natural.
Which is a Good Thing(TM). The word 'natural' is not really a precise term.

If you want to say specifically 'this object has an occurrence in b3s23/C1', why not say exactly that, without using an ambiguous word?
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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b-engine
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 11th, 2024, 10:09 am

confocaloid wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 10:01 am
If you want to say specifically 'this object has an occurrence in b3s23/C1', why not say exactly that, without using an ambiguous word?
"Occured in b3s23/C1" is my standard definition for natural, unrelated to others' means. And my edit in the previous post is an explanation of this definition.

EDIT: I hate autocorrect changing b3s23 into B3S23.

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confocaloid
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589x589 torus (Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads)

Post by confocaloid » April 13th, 2024, 4:00 am

muzik wrote:
April 6th, 2024, 4:35 pm
Interesting pattern for benchmarking - this takes 1583.7 seconds to detect periodicity and 2308.0 to finish. Do any bounded-grid-specific optimizations exist, or could any be implemented?

Code: Select all

x = 589, y = 589, rule = B378/S23:T589
130bo176bo26b2o176b2o$128b2o205bo176bo26b2o$128bo26b2o176b2o205bo$156b
o176bo26b2o176b2o$154b2o205bo176bo26b2o$154bo26b2o176b2o205bo$182bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$2b2o176b2o205bo176bo$3bo176bo26b2o176b2o$b2o205bo176b
o26b2o$bo26b2o176b2o205bo$29bo176bo26b2o176b2o$27b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
27bo26b2o176b2o205bo$55bo176bo26b2o176b2o$53b2o205bo176bo26b2o$53bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$81bo176bo26b2o176b2o$79b2o205bo176bo26b2o$79bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$107bo176bo26b2o176b2o$105b2o205bo176bo26b2o$105bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$133bo176bo26b2o176b2o$131b2o205bo176bo26b2o$131bo26b2o176b2o205b
o$159bo176bo26b2o176b2o$157b2o205bo176bo26b2o$157bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
185bo176bo26b2o176b2o$5b2o176b2o205bo176bo$6bo176bo26b2o176b2o$4b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$4bo26b2o176b2o205bo$32bo176bo26b2o176b2o$30b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$30bo26b2o176b2o205bo$58bo176bo26b2o176b2o$56b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$56bo26b2o176b2o205bo$84bo176bo26b2o176b2o$82b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
82bo26b2o176b2o205bo$110bo176bo26b2o176b2o$108b2o205bo176bo26b2o$108bo
26b2o176b2o205bo$136bo176bo26b2o176b2o$134b2o205bo176bo26b2o$134bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$162bo176bo26b2o176b2o$160b2o205bo176bo26b2o$160bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$188bo176bo26b2o176b2o$8b2o176b2o205bo176bo$9bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$7b2o205bo176bo26b2o$7bo26b2o176b2o205bo$35bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
33b2o205bo176bo26b2o$33bo26b2o176b2o205bo$61bo176bo26b2o176b2o$59b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$59bo26b2o176b2o205bo$87bo176bo26b2o176b2o$85b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$85bo26b2o176b2o205bo$113bo176bo26b2o176b2o$111b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$111bo26b2o176b2o205bo$139bo176bo26b2o176b2o$137b2o205bo176bo26b
2o$137bo26b2o176b2o205bo$165bo176bo26b2o176b2o$163b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
163bo26b2o176b2o205bo$191bo176bo26b2o176b2o$11b2o176b2o205bo176bo$12bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$10b2o205bo176bo26b2o$10bo26b2o176b2o205bo$38bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$36b2o205bo176bo26b2o$36bo26b2o176b2o205bo$64bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$62b2o205bo176bo26b2o$62bo26b2o176b2o205bo$90bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
88b2o205bo176bo26b2o$88bo26b2o176b2o205bo$116bo176bo26b2o176b2o$114b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$114bo26b2o176b2o205bo$142bo176bo26b2o176b2o$140b2o205b
o176bo26b2o$140bo26b2o176b2o205bo$168bo176bo26b2o176b2o$166b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$166bo26b2o176b2o205bo$194bo176bo26b2o176b2o$14b2o176b2o205b
o176bo$15bo176bo26b2o176b2o$13b2o205bo176bo26b2o$13bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
41bo176bo26b2o176b2o$39b2o205bo176bo26b2o$39bo26b2o176b2o205bo$67bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$65b2o205bo176bo26b2o$65bo26b2o176b2o205bo$93bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$91b2o205bo176bo26b2o$91bo26b2o176b2o205bo$119bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$117b2o205bo176bo26b2o$117bo26b2o176b2o205bo$145bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$143b2o205bo176bo26b2o$143bo26b2o176b2o205bo$171bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
169b2o205bo176bo26b2o$169bo26b2o176b2o205bo$197bo176bo26b2o176b2o$17b
2o176b2o205bo176bo$18bo176bo26b2o176b2o$16b2o205bo176bo26b2o$16bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$44bo176bo26b2o176b2o$42b2o205bo176bo26b2o$42bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$70bo176bo26b2o176b2o$68b2o205bo176bo26b2o$68bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
96bo176bo26b2o176b2o$94b2o205bo176bo26b2o$94bo26b2o176b2o205bo$122bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$120b2o205bo176bo26b2o$120bo26b2o176b2o205bo$148bo176b
o26b2o176b2o$146b2o205bo176bo26b2o$146bo26b2o176b2o205bo$174bo176bo26b
2o176b2o$172b2o205bo176bo26b2o$172bo26b2o176b2o205bo$200bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$20b2o176b2o205bo176bo$21bo176bo26b2o176b2o$19b2o205bo176bo26b2o
$19bo26b2o176b2o205bo$47bo176bo26b2o176b2o$45b2o205bo176bo26b2o$45bo
26b2o176b2o205bo$73bo176bo26b2o176b2o$71b2o205bo176bo26b2o$71bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$99bo176bo26b2o176b2o$97b2o205bo176bo26b2o$97bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$125bo176bo26b2o176b2o$123b2o205bo176bo26b2o$123bo26b2o176b2o205b
o$151bo176bo26b2o176b2o$149b2o205bo176bo26b2o$149bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
177bo176bo26b2o176b2o$175b2o205bo176bo26b2o$175bo26b2o176b2o205bo$203b
o176bo26b2o176b2o$23b2o176b2o205bo176bo$24bo176bo26b2o176b2o$22b2o205b
o176bo26b2o$22bo26b2o176b2o205bo$50bo176bo26b2o176b2o$48b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$48bo26b2o176b2o205bo$76bo176bo26b2o176b2o$74b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
74bo26b2o176b2o205bo$102bo176bo26b2o176b2o$100b2o205bo176bo26b2o$100bo
26b2o176b2o205bo$128bo176bo26b2o176b2o$126b2o205bo176bo26b2o$126bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$154bo176bo26b2o176b2o$152b2o205bo176bo26b2o$152bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$180bo176bo26b2o176b2o$2o176b2o205bo176bo$bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$o205bo176bo26b2o176bo$26b2o176b2o205bo176bo$27bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
25b2o205bo176bo26b2o$25bo26b2o176b2o205bo$53bo176bo26b2o176b2o$51b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$51bo26b2o176b2o205bo$79bo176bo26b2o176b2o$77b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$77bo26b2o176b2o205bo$105bo176bo26b2o176b2o$103b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$103bo26b2o176b2o205bo$131bo176bo26b2o176b2o$129b2o205bo176bo26b
2o$129bo26b2o176b2o205bo$157bo176bo26b2o176b2o$155b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
155bo26b2o176b2o205bo$183bo176bo26b2o176b2o$3b2o176b2o205bo176bo$4bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$2b2o205bo176bo26b2o$2bo26b2o176b2o205bo$30bo176bo26b
2o176b2o$28b2o205bo176bo26b2o$28bo26b2o176b2o205bo$56bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$54b2o205bo176bo26b2o$54bo26b2o176b2o205bo$82bo176bo26b2o176b2o$80b
2o205bo176bo26b2o$80bo26b2o176b2o205bo$108bo176bo26b2o176b2o$106b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$106bo26b2o176b2o205bo$134bo176bo26b2o176b2o$132b2o205b
o176bo26b2o$132bo26b2o176b2o205bo$160bo176bo26b2o176b2o$158b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$158bo26b2o176b2o205bo$186bo176bo26b2o176b2o$6b2o176b2o205bo
176bo$7bo176bo26b2o176b2o$5b2o205bo176bo26b2o$5bo26b2o176b2o205bo$33bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$31b2o205bo176bo26b2o$31bo26b2o176b2o205bo$59bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$57b2o205bo176bo26b2o$57bo26b2o176b2o205bo$85bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$83b2o205bo176bo26b2o$83bo26b2o176b2o205bo$111bo176bo26b2o176b2o
$109b2o205bo176bo26b2o$109bo26b2o176b2o205bo$137bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
135b2o205bo176bo26b2o$135bo26b2o176b2o205bo$163bo176bo26b2o176b2o$161b
2o205bo176bo26b2o$161bo26b2o176b2o205bo$189bo176bo26b2o176b2o$9b2o176b
2o205bo176bo$10bo176bo26b2o176b2o$8b2o205bo176bo26b2o$8bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$36bo176bo26b2o176b2o$34b2o205bo176bo26b2o$34bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
62bo176bo26b2o176b2o$60b2o205bo176bo26b2o$60bo26b2o176b2o205bo$88bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$86b2o205bo176bo26b2o$86bo26b2o176b2o205bo$114bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$112b2o205bo176bo26b2o$112bo26b2o176b2o205bo$140bo176bo26b
2o176b2o$138b2o205bo176bo26b2o$138bo26b2o176b2o205bo$166bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$164b2o205bo176bo26b2o$164bo26b2o176b2o205bo$192bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$12b2o176b2o205bo176bo$13bo176bo26b2o176b2o$11b2o205bo176bo26b2o$11b
o26b2o176b2o205bo$39bo176bo26b2o176b2o$37b2o205bo176bo26b2o$37bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$65bo176bo26b2o176b2o$63b2o205bo176bo26b2o$63bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$91bo176bo26b2o176b2o$89b2o205bo176bo26b2o$89bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
117bo176bo26b2o176b2o$115b2o205bo176bo26b2o$115bo26b2o176b2o205bo$143b
o176bo26b2o176b2o$141b2o205bo176bo26b2o$141bo26b2o176b2o205bo$169bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$167b2o205bo176bo26b2o$167bo26b2o176b2o205bo$195bo176b
o26b2o176b2o$15b2o176b2o205bo176bo$16bo176bo26b2o176b2o$14b2o205bo176b
o26b2o$14bo26b2o176b2o205bo$42bo176bo26b2o176b2o$40b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
40bo26b2o176b2o205bo$68bo176bo26b2o176b2o$66b2o205bo176bo26b2o$66bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$94bo176bo26b2o176b2o$92b2o205bo176bo26b2o$92bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$120bo176bo26b2o176b2o$118b2o205bo176bo26b2o$118bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$146bo176bo26b2o176b2o$144b2o205bo176bo26b2o$144bo26b2o176b2o205b
o$172bo176bo26b2o176b2o$170b2o205bo176bo26b2o$170bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
198bo176bo26b2o176b2o$18b2o176b2o205bo176bo$19bo176bo26b2o176b2o$17b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$17bo26b2o176b2o205bo$45bo176bo26b2o176b2o$43b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$43bo26b2o176b2o205bo$71bo176bo26b2o176b2o$69b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$69bo26b2o176b2o205bo$97bo176bo26b2o176b2o$95b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
95bo26b2o176b2o205bo$123bo176bo26b2o176b2o$121b2o205bo176bo26b2o$121bo
26b2o176b2o205bo$149bo176bo26b2o176b2o$147b2o205bo176bo26b2o$147bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$175bo176bo26b2o176b2o$173b2o205bo176bo26b2o$173bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$201bo176bo26b2o176b2o$21b2o176b2o205bo176bo$22bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$20b2o205bo176bo26b2o$20bo26b2o176b2o205bo$48bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
46b2o205bo176bo26b2o$46bo26b2o176b2o205bo$74bo176bo26b2o176b2o$72b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$72bo26b2o176b2o205bo$100bo176bo26b2o176b2o$98b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$98bo26b2o176b2o205bo$126bo176bo26b2o176b2o$124b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$124bo26b2o176b2o205bo$152bo176bo26b2o176b2o$150b2o205bo176bo26b
2o$150bo26b2o176b2o205bo$178bo176bo26b2o176b2o$176b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
176bo26b2o176b2o205bo$204bo176bo26b2o176b2o$24b2o176b2o205bo176bo$25bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$23b2o205bo176bo26b2o$23bo26b2o176b2o205bo$51bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$49b2o205bo176bo26b2o$49bo26b2o176b2o205bo$77bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$75b2o205bo176bo26b2o$75bo26b2o176b2o205bo$103bo176bo26b2o176b2o
$101b2o205bo176bo26b2o$101bo26b2o176b2o205bo$129bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
127b2o205bo176bo26b2o$127bo26b2o176b2o205bo$155bo176bo26b2o176b2o$153b
2o205bo176bo26b2o$153bo26b2o176b2o205bo$181bo176bo26b2o176b2o$b2o176b
2o205bo176bo$2bo176bo26b2o176b2o$2o205bo176bo26b2o$o26b2o176b2o205bo$
28bo176bo26b2o176b2o$26b2o205bo176bo26b2o$26bo26b2o176b2o205bo$54bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$52b2o205bo176bo26b2o$52bo26b2o176b2o205bo$80bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$78b2o205bo176bo26b2o$78bo26b2o176b2o205bo$106bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$104b2o205bo176bo26b2o$104bo26b2o176b2o205bo$132bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$130b2o205bo176bo26b2o$130bo26b2o176b2o205bo$158bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
156b2o205bo176bo26b2o$156bo26b2o176b2o205bo$184bo176bo26b2o176b2o$4b2o
176b2o205bo176bo$5bo176bo26b2o176b2o$3b2o205bo176bo26b2o$3bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$31bo176bo26b2o176b2o$29b2o205bo176bo26b2o$29bo26b2o176b2o205bo
$57bo176bo26b2o176b2o$55b2o205bo176bo26b2o$55bo26b2o176b2o205bo$83bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$81b2o205bo176bo26b2o$81bo26b2o176b2o205bo$109bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$107b2o205bo176bo26b2o$107bo26b2o176b2o205bo$135bo176bo26b
2o176b2o$133b2o205bo176bo26b2o$133bo26b2o176b2o205bo$161bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$159b2o205bo176bo26b2o$159bo26b2o176b2o205bo$187bo176bo26b2o176b
2o$7b2o176b2o205bo176bo$8bo176bo26b2o176b2o$6b2o205bo176bo26b2o$6bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$34bo176bo26b2o176b2o$32b2o205bo176bo26b2o$32bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$60bo176bo26b2o176b2o$58b2o205bo176bo26b2o$58bo26b2o176b2o205bo
$86bo176bo26b2o176b2o$84b2o205bo176bo26b2o$84bo26b2o176b2o205bo$112bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$110b2o205bo176bo26b2o$110bo26b2o176b2o205bo$138bo176b
o26b2o176b2o$136b2o205bo176bo26b2o$136bo26b2o176b2o205bo$164bo176bo26b
2o176b2o$162b2o205bo176bo26b2o$162bo26b2o176b2o205bo$190bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$10b2o176b2o205bo176bo$11bo176bo26b2o176b2o$9b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
9bo26b2o176b2o205bo$37bo176bo26b2o176b2o$35b2o205bo176bo26b2o$35bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$63bo176bo26b2o176b2o$61b2o205bo176bo26b2o$61bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$89bo176bo26b2o176b2o$87b2o205bo176bo26b2o$87bo26b2o176b2o205bo
$115bo176bo26b2o176b2o$113b2o205bo176bo26b2o$113bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
141bo176bo26b2o176b2o$139b2o205bo176bo26b2o$139bo26b2o176b2o205bo$167b
o176bo26b2o176b2o$165b2o205bo176bo26b2o$165bo26b2o176b2o205bo$193bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$13b2o176b2o205bo176bo$14bo176bo26b2o176b2o$12b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$12bo26b2o176b2o205bo$40bo176bo26b2o176b2o$38b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$38bo26b2o176b2o205bo$66bo176bo26b2o176b2o$64b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
64bo26b2o176b2o205bo$92bo176bo26b2o176b2o$90b2o205bo176bo26b2o$90bo26b
2o176b2o205bo$118bo176bo26b2o176b2o$116b2o205bo176bo26b2o$116bo26b2o
176b2o205bo$144bo176bo26b2o176b2o$142b2o205bo176bo26b2o$142bo26b2o176b
2o205bo$170bo176bo26b2o176b2o$168b2o205bo176bo26b2o$168bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$196bo176bo26b2o176b2o$16b2o176b2o205bo176bo$17bo176bo26b2o176b2o
$15b2o205bo176bo26b2o$15bo26b2o176b2o205bo$43bo176bo26b2o176b2o$41b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$41bo26b2o176b2o205bo$69bo176bo26b2o176b2o$67b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$67bo26b2o176b2o205bo$95bo176bo26b2o176b2o$93b2o205bo176bo
26b2o$93bo26b2o176b2o205bo$121bo176bo26b2o176b2o$119b2o205bo176bo26b2o
$119bo26b2o176b2o205bo$147bo176bo26b2o176b2o$145b2o205bo176bo26b2o$
145bo26b2o176b2o205bo$173bo176bo26b2o176b2o$171b2o205bo176bo26b2o$171b
o26b2o176b2o205bo$199bo176bo26b2o176b2o$19b2o176b2o205bo176bo$20bo176b
o26b2o176b2o$18b2o205bo176bo26b2o$18bo26b2o176b2o205bo$46bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$44b2o205bo176bo26b2o$44bo26b2o176b2o205bo$72bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
70b2o205bo176bo26b2o$70bo26b2o176b2o205bo$98bo176bo26b2o176b2o$96b2o
205bo176bo26b2o$96bo26b2o176b2o205bo$124bo176bo26b2o176b2o$122b2o205bo
176bo26b2o$122bo26b2o176b2o205bo$150bo176bo26b2o176b2o$148b2o205bo176b
o26b2o$148bo26b2o176b2o205bo$176bo176bo26b2o176b2o$174b2o205bo176bo26b
2o$174bo26b2o176b2o205bo$202bo176bo26b2o176b2o$22b2o176b2o205bo176bo$
23bo176bo26b2o176b2o$21b2o205bo176bo26b2o$21bo26b2o176b2o205bo$49bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$47b2o205bo176bo26b2o$47bo26b2o176b2o205bo$75bo176bo
26b2o176b2o$73b2o205bo176bo26b2o$73bo26b2o176b2o205bo$101bo176bo26b2o
176b2o$99b2o205bo176bo26b2o$99bo26b2o176b2o205bo$127bo176bo26b2o176b2o
$125b2o205bo176bo26b2o$125bo26b2o176b2o205bo$153bo176bo26b2o176b2o$
151b2o205bo176bo26b2o$151bo26b2o176b2o205bo$179bo176bo26b2o176b2o$o
176b2o205bo176bo26bo$o176bo26b2o176b2o$205bo176bo26b2o176b2o$25b2o176b
2o205bo176bo$26bo176bo26b2o176b2o$24b2o205bo176bo26b2o$24bo26b2o176b2o
205bo$52bo176bo26b2o176b2o$50b2o205bo176bo26b2o$50bo26b2o176b2o205bo$
78bo176bo26b2o176b2o$76b2o205bo176bo26b2o$76bo26b2o176b2o205bo$104bo
176bo26b2o176b2o$102b2o205bo176bo26b2o$102bo26b2o176b2o205bo!
I think you could do something along these lines:
  • Determine that the pattern is equivalent to an agar consisting of copies of b2o$2bo$2o$o! with displacements (dx=26, dy=3), (dx=3, dy=23), represented in a 589-by-589 torus with 589 copies of a single 589-cell region R.
  • Partition the torus into 589 nonoverlapping copies of R (in an arbitrary way).
  • Take one of the resulting 589 copies of R, and extend it by including external cells that are in the neighbourhood of at least one internal cell.
  • Perform all possible identifications between cells with different coordinates that are "actually the same cell visible in different places". (One cell will be internal to R, and all other cells identified with it will be external to R.)
  • Determine the underlying graph (589 nodes in this example), with a directed edge from cell a to cell b iff a is in the neighbourhood of b. (A directed edge from a to b means "the current state of a can affect the next state of b".)
  • Copy the pattern from the region R to the nodes of the graph, and evolve it there. This should be much faster than directly evolving the large pattern on the torus.
  • Any computed data about individual cells (e.g. cell period map) can then be transferred back from the 589-node graph to the 589-by-589 torus.

Code: Select all

#C Seven copies of a single 589-cell region are highlighted
#C [[ VIEWONLY ]]
x = 90, y = 82, rule = B378/S23Super
.2A$2.A$2A$A25.L2A20L$26.2LA20L$26.2A21L$26.A25LJ2A20J$26.26L2JA20J$
26.26L2A21J$26.26LA25J.2A$26.26L26J2.A$26.26L26J2A$26.26L26JA$26.26L
26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$26.
26L26J$26.26L26J$26.26L26J$3.B2A20B26L26J$3.2BA20B26L26J$3.2A21B26L
26J$3.A25BH2A20H26J$3.26B2HA20H26J$3.26B2A21H26J$3.26BA25HB2A20B$3.
26B26H2BA20B$3.26B26H2A21B$3.26B26HA25B.2A$3.26B26H26B2.A$3.26B26H26B
2A$3.26B26H26BA$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B
26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$3.26B26H26B$6.
J2A20J26H26B$6.2JA20J26H26B$6.2A21J26H26B$6.A25JL2A20L26B$6.26J2LA20L
26B$6.26J2A21L26B$6.26JA25L.2A$6.26J26L2.A$6.26J26L2A$6.26J26LA26.2A$
6.26J26L28.A$6.26J26L26.2A$6.26J26L26.A$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.
26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$6.26J26L$10.2A20.
26L$11.A20.26L$9.2A21.26L$9.A26.2A$37.A$35.2A$35.A26.2A$63.A$61.2A$
61.A26.2A$89.A$87.2A$87.A!
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am

Is it natural if there is a 16x16 C1 soup for it that has not appeared yet? (2-engine cordership) What about larger C1 soups?
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 14th, 2024, 2:02 am

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am
Is it natural if there is a 16x16 C1 soup for it that has not appeared yet? (2-engine cordership) What about larger C1 soups?
In my defination an object is natural if it appears from an asymmetric (synonym of C1) soup, no matter how big is it. That's why I call those patterns found by hand "natural".
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 14th, 2024, 3:55 am

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am
Is it natural if there is a 16x16 C1 soup for it that has not appeared yet?
If some 16x16 pattern never appeared legitimately randomly generated in a soup search, then that 16x16 pattern is not a soup.
Regardless of symmetry, that 16x16 pattern is not "C1", until and unless it shows when apgsearching in the C1 census.
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am
(2-engine cordership)
Objects in the final census of that 16x16 pattern are not "natural" in Catagolue sense (Natural#Catagolue), unless they have legitimate occurrences from actual soups in the C1 census.

The 2-engine Cordership is not "natural" in Catagolue sense, because it never appeared in b3s23/C1.

The 2-engine Cordership is also not natural in any other interesting sense, because it is already obvious that it will appear extremely rarely from random soups / from random collisions.
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am
What about larger C1 soups?
Larger C1 soups cannot exist by definition.
b-engine wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 2:02 am
In my defination an object is natural if it appears from an asymmetric (synonym of C1) soup, no matter how big is it.
Asymmetric is not a synonym of C1. C1 means "16x16 pseudorandom pattern generated by apgsearch".
If apgsearch accidentally happened to generate a C1 soup that has some kind of symmetry (e.g. a rotationally symmetric 16x16 soup), then it is still C1.
Conversely, larger or smaller asymmetric soups are not C1.

Note that apgsearching official symmetries 8x32, 4x64, 2x128 will also generate soups that are almost always asymmetric.
b-engine wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 2:02 am
That's why I call those patterns found by hand "natural".
Objects with predecessors found by a SAT solver such as Logic Life Search are not natural in Catagolue sense, unless they have occurrences in the C1 census of their rule.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 14th, 2024, 5:24 am

confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 3:55 am
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 1:52 am
What about larger C1 soups?
Larger C1 soups cannot exist by definition.
What about 32x32 and beyond?
confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 3:55 am
If apgsearch accidentally happened to generate a C1 soup that has some kind of symmetry (e.g. a rotationally symmetric 16x16 soup), then it is still C1.
Nope. C1 is asymmetrical and by defination has to be.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 14th, 2024, 6:00 am

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 5:24 am
What about 32x32 and beyond?
All C1 soups are 16x16.
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 5:24 am
confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 3:55 am
If apgsearch accidentally happened to generate a C1 soup that has some kind of symmetry (e.g. a rotationally symmetric 16x16 soup), then it is still C1.
Nope. C1 is asymmetrical and by defination has to be.
If apgsearch generates a string whose 256-bit hash value just so happens to result in a symmetric 16x16 pattern, that 16x16 pattern will still be a C1 soup, by definition. Whether or not the pattern is symmetric doesn't matter.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 14th, 2024, 6:11 pm

tommyaweosme wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 5:07 pm
blinker fuse (makes pulsar at end) watch what happens when two of them go into eachother
Sorry, but that blinker fuse is well known as house fuse. The end product when 2 fuses collides is called dead spark coil.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm

confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 6:00 am
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 5:24 am
What about 32x32 and beyond?
All C1 soups are 16x16.
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 5:24 am
confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 3:55 am
If apgsearch accidentally happened to generate a C1 soup that has some kind of symmetry (e.g. a rotationally symmetric 16x16 soup), then it is still C1.
Nope. C1 is asymmetrical and by defination has to be.
If apgsearch generates a string whose 256-bit hash value just so happens to result in a symmetric 16x16 pattern, that 16x16 pattern will still be a C1 soup, by definition. Whether or not the pattern is symmetric doesn't matter.
It does. C1 can also refer to the lack of symmetry of patterns as well as soup. For example, eater 1 has C1 symmetry. Using the definition of “asymmetrical patterns”, such symmetrical soup generated by chance does not count.

For context, let’s pretend that this is the year 2081. 2 septillion supposedly-asymmetrical soup have been searched and there is one C2_2 soup. That soup evolves into a Goban. Is the Goban natural in that case?

By the “asymmetrical patterns” defination, C1 patterns, including soup can be any size.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 15th, 2024, 4:44 am

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm
It does. C1 can also refer to the lack of symmetry of patterns as well as soup. For example, eater 1 has C1 symmetry. Using the definition of “asymmetrical patterns”, such symmetrical soup generated by chance does not count.
I'm not sure if I like that reinterpretation of "C1". If you want to say "eater 1 is asymmetric", why not say that directly and explicitly, instead of going into the trouble of reusing what was supposed to refer to a Catagolue census?

Either way, when you're talking about Catagolue soups, "C1 soup" means a 16x16 soup that has legitimately appeared in the C1 census of a relevant cellular automaton. Likewise for the other official censuses -- C2_1, C2_2, ..., D8_4, 8x32, 4x64, 2x128, 1x256.
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm
For context, let’s pretend that this is the year 2081. 2 septillion supposedly-asymmetrical soup have been searched and there is one C2_2 soup. That soup evolves into a Goban. Is the Goban natural in that case?
No. Neither in Catagolue sense (because there would be no C1 occurrences).
Nor in any other useful sense (because in that case, it would be absolutely totally blatantly obvious that Goban isn't natural).
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm
By the “asymmetrical patterns” defination, C1 patterns, including soup can be any size.
"C1" originated as the identifier of a Catagolue census (as in "b36s23/C1"). It refers to official Catagolue censuses that collect 16x16 soups generated by an algorithm that does not require resulting soups to be symmetric in any way (but still allows accidentally-symmetric soups).
Note there are other official Catagolue censuses that collect not-necessarily-symmetric soups: 8x32, 4x64, 2x128.

If you really want to reinterpret "C1" to use it with any other non-Catagolue-related meaning, then that's your choice and you should be prepared to solve resulting problems (with ambiguous communication) on your own.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 15th, 2024, 10:04 am

confocaloid wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 4:44 am
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm
For context, let’s pretend that this is the year 2081. 2 septillion supposedly-asymmetrical soup have been searched and there is one C2_2 soup. That soup evolves into a Goban. Is the Goban natural in that case?
No. Neither in Catagolue sense (because there would be no C1 occurrences).
Nor in any other useful sense (because in that case, it would be absolutely totally blatantly obvious that Goban isn't natural).
Think future. If Goban appeared in a supposedly C1 soup that turned out to have C2_2 symmetry by luck in the future, what would it's naturality be?
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 15th, 2024, 10:25 am

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 10:04 am
confocaloid wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 4:44 am
Haycat2009 wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 7:52 pm
For context, let’s pretend that this is the year 2081. 2 septillion supposedly-asymmetrical soup have been searched and there is one C2_2 soup. That soup evolves into a Goban. Is the Goban natural in that case?
No. Neither in Catagolue sense (because there would be no C1 occurrences).
Nor in any other useful sense (because in that case, it would be absolutely totally blatantly obvious that Goban isn't natural).
Think future. If Goban appeared in a supposedly C1 soup that turned out to have C2_2 symmetry by luck in the future, what would it's naturality be?
That's not what you wrote previously.

You wrote:
>> 2 septillion supposedly-asymmetrical soup have been searched and there is one C2_2 soup. That soup evolves into a Goban. Is the Goban natural in that case?

That means two things. First, 2 septillion soups were submitted to Catagolue census b3s23/C1 (and possibly to censuses 8x32, 4x64, 2x128 as well; it's unclear whether or not those are counted). Second, there's one soup with an occurrence of Goban in the Catagolue census b3s23/C2_2. Since nothing is said about whether or not there are C1 soups for Goban in 2081, I take it there are none. That means Goban is still not "natural" (in Catagolue sense) even in 2081. Which is why I replied
>> No. Neither in Catagolue sense (because there would be no C1 occurrences).
>> Nor in any other useful sense (because in that case, it would be absolutely totally blatantly obvious that Goban isn't natural).

Then you wrote
>> If Goban appeared in a supposedly C1 soup that turned out to have C2_2 symmetry by luck in the future, what would it's naturality be?

That's an entirely different situation (albeit somewhat awkwardly expressed).
At some point in the future, Goban is supposed to have an occurrence in a C1 soup (i.e. in the b3s23/C1 Catagolue census). I take it that's a legitimate occurrence, and not a "fake" obtained by inverting the underlying hash function (which might be broken by 2081).

If there's a legitimate C1 occurrence of Goban, then Goban is "natural" (in Catagolue sense). Otherwise, it isn't.
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by d/dx » April 15th, 2024, 12:30 pm

I present to you: the World's probably not First Extensible Methuselah!!!
It works by having a p690 gun create a crystal, which grows into the gun and explodes. This one stabilizes at T=53383. You can extend it by moving away the pentadecathlons.

Code: Select all

x = 253, y = 237, rule = B3/S23
21$40bo$40b3o$43bo$42b2o6$42b2o3b2o$42b2o3b2o2$44b3o$44b3o$45bo$52b2o
12b4o5b6o$52b2o12bob2o7b4o$66bo7bob2o$42bo24b2o5b2o$41bobo$29b2o10b2ob
o22b2o5b2o$29b2o10b2ob2o20bo7bob2o$41b2obo21bob2o7b4o$41bobo22b4o5b6o$
42bo9$68bo$68b3o$71bo$70b2o144$212bo2bob2obo2bo$211b2o2bo4bo2b2o$212bo
2bob2obo2bo7$207bo$206b3o$205b5o7$205b5o$206b3o$207bo!
friendship ended with lo*****le, now WIREWORLD and JVN29 are my friends

i don't use discord

cgol 2 when?

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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 16th, 2024, 3:05 am

Give that everything in minecraft is made out of blocks, is minecraft blockic?
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by H. H. P. M. P. Cole » April 16th, 2024, 8:48 pm

Will we ever run out of INT rules?

There are 2^102 INT rules. Not counting those which have B0, B1c, B1e, or B2a, there are 2^98 of them. Using the constraints in LaundryPizza's post here, 3/4 of non-relativistic rules can expand their bounding box (has B2c, B3i, or both), and another 3/4 still can expand their bounding diamond (has B2e, B3a, or both), and 1/4096 of these rules do not have spaceships as all patterns cannot shrink (giving a total of 4095/4096 rules where some patterns can shrink their bounding dimensions). Hence there are a total of about 3/4*3/4*4095/4096*2^98 = 178219844327588632935184465920 theoretically-spaceship-supporting rules. This is, of course, a very simplistic estimate, and there are far more parameters to consider, but this is only a small thought experiment, so let us assume that 1/16 of these rules = 11138740270474289558449029120, or approximately 1.11e28 rules are interesting.

There are about 180000 posts on the forums, and at the time of writing the forums has existed for 5567 days. This gives a total of about 32-and-a-third posts a day.

This gives a total of 344497121767246068818011210 (rounded-up) days for the forums to have one post each about an 'interesting' INT rule, and 1722485608836230344090056050 days to have 5 posts about each 'interesting' INT rule, or about 340 trillion Universe lifetimes. This is not counting - well, practically, everything else.

So, the short answer is no, we will never run out of INT rules. For the time being. Unless a sentient supercomputer posts 10 quintillion posts a day, five posts each on a different INT rule each time.

===============================================================================================

This is a prediction page by me: https://conwaylife.com/wiki/User:H._H._ ... yLife_2050

Edit it if you want to!
Harfordson Parker-Cole

Factorio

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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 17th, 2024, 5:08 am

What rules cannot recede other than the obvious?
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 20th, 2024, 6:34 am

Is it just me, or rakes like this feel like devices magically shooting gliders from nowhere?

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 29, rule = B34nt/S23-a4t5i
29bo$24bob5o$22b3obo3b2o$26bobobo$27b3o$14bo12bo$12bobo$13b2o4$24bo$24b
3o$23bobobo$19b3obo3b2o$21bob5o$26bo10$bo$2bo$3o!
b-engine wrote:
April 19th, 2024, 6:31 am
[...]
Rake:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 15, rule = B34nt/S23-a4t5i
4b2o$3bo2bo$4b3o10$b3o$o2bo$b2o!
[...]

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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 21st, 2024, 9:24 am

lemon41625 wrote:
April 21st, 2024, 9:14 am
The rule has photons of many periods, with periods 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 33, 40 and 88 known.

Code: Select all

x = 429, y = 109, rule = R2,C2,S6-9,14-20,B7-8,15-24
Bugs
Terminology fix: The term "photon" in an range-n LtL rule specifically refers to n*c spaceships. LtL spaceships travelling at c are generally refered to c ships.
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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 22nd, 2024, 3:28 pm

rabbit wrote:
April 18th, 2024, 9:47 pm
Forum post signatures containing images loaded from external sites frequently cause significant slowdown for readers.

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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by rabbit » April 24th, 2024, 10:47 am

confocaloid wrote:
April 22nd, 2024, 3:28 pm
rabbit wrote:
April 18th, 2024, 9:47 pm
Forum post signatures containing images loaded from external sites frequently cause significant slowdown for readers.
It is supposed to be an emoji. It does not appear to load as an image on my PC where I do most of my Life stuff, but does on my laptop (different OS). I'm not sure why that is.
U+1F407

iddi01
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by iddi01 » April 25th, 2024, 8:14 am

confocaloid wrote:
April 24th, 2024, 10:05 pm
(b) It refers to a specific person, which would be already enough to reject it.

I'm going to report this discussion as offtopic
Since it's probably on-topic in this thread, let's continue this discussion here.

(b) Then how do you explain JvN29, Nobili32, Hutton32, Codd, Devore, Fredkin, Morley, Eppstein, Holstein, and Banks-x?
Wiki: User:iddi01

I'm making a poll. please contribute.

First gun i constructed:

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x = 69, y = 69, rule = B3-n/S1e2-a3-e4e
2$32b3o$32bobo$32bobo$32b3o27$63b4o$b4o58bo2bo$bo2bo23bo4b2o28b4o$b4o
21bobo$28bo21$35bo$34b3o6$33b3o$33bobo$33bobo$33b3o!

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by confocaloid » April 25th, 2024, 10:39 am

iddi01 wrote:
April 25th, 2024, 8:14 am
confocaloid wrote:
April 24th, 2024, 10:05 pm
(b) It refers to a specific person, which would be already enough to reject it.

I'm going to report this discussion as offtopic
Since it's probably on-topic in this thread, let's continue this discussion here.

(b) Then how do you explain JvN29, Nobili32, Hutton32, Codd, Devore, Fredkin, Morley, Eppstein, Holstein, and Banks-x?
The first question is, where these aliases come from? Who picked these specific character sequences as aliases for CA rulesets?

Several of them read directly as names of people, and could be expected to be redirects to wiki entries about those people -- not rulenames.

In particular, see the history regarding the current alias for B35/S236. That alias definitely fails to be a good name for the ruleset. B35/S236 was originally explored by two people, not just one.
The Catagolue/LifeViewer alias was coined by someone here on these forums -- it was not chosen by the people who did the early investigation.
* https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?diff ... did=136245
* viewtopic.php?p=173182#p173182
* viewtopic.php?p=173478#p173478

Singling out a specific person would be enough to reject a name.
A possible exception is when the actual discoverer chooses (or codiscoverers agree on) a name, and that name is not generally ridiculuos/inappropriate in some obvious way.
Another possible exception is when the alias is already extremely widely used for many years, and nobody of the actual discoverers objected to it.

In addition, for Life-like cellular automata, the rulestring is short enough to be used instead of the name, and clear and unambiguous enough to serve as a better way of referring to a specific ruleset, compared to any possible coined alias. "B38/S23" is clearer than "Pedestrian Life", and it is a better way to refer to the ruleset, even though nobody (to my knowledge) objected to this particular alias, and even though it doesn't single out any specific person.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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b-engine
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Re: Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

Post by b-engine » April 26th, 2024, 2:19 am

AsgharH247 wrote:
April 25th, 2024, 6:33 pm
I discovered a p24 c/2 puffer-rake in B3/S234i:

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x = 9, y = 10, rule = B3/S234i
2bo3bo$b3ob3o$bobobobo5$bo5bo$obo3bobo$b2o3b2o!
The R-pentomino is a very dirty oblique puffer in B3/S234y:

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S234y
2o$b2o$bo!
A p9 oscillator in B3/S234w:

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x = 5, y = 5, rule = B3/S234w
2bo$bobo$o3bo$bobo$2bo!
Welcome to forums!
It's needed, and generally preferred by most forum users to use pattern tags rather the LV (LifeViewer) tags, as viewers can take up a lot of space. You can click the pattern button when posting to summon a pattern tag.

Sadly, the 3 patterns you posted and quoted (by hitting the " button) by me are known. Try https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object to identify objects.

(I think I need to create "Thread for your unsure OCA discoveries)
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