Thread for basic questions

[GUYTU6J]

I realized something... many newcomers (mistakenly) think that the LifeWiki contains all known information about CGoL, even things like random still lives, P2s, medium-lived methuselahs etc.
Why is this the case?

I suppose the outdated phrasing on LifeWiki:About is to be blamed, because the page was created before early 2009 and the most recent edit was just a typo fix without updates regarding current status of LifeWiki's functions.

[confocaloid]

LifeWiki might be simply more visible than other places where one could get knowledge. You cannot become familiar with all sources at once.
I think LifeWiki still misses many notable topics.

[Haycat2009]

I realized something... many newcomers (mistakenly) think that the LifeWiki contains all known information about CGoL, even things like random still lives, P2s, medium-lived methuselahs etc.
Why is this the case?

This is because users are usually told to "check the Lifewiki" if what they found is new, so they assume it contains everything and that if it is not there, it does not exist. I made the same mistake too with a p86 strictly volatile MWSS gun.

[Haycat2009]

How can eater bridge eater be used as a grin reagent?

[dvgrn]

How can eater bridge eater be used as a grin reagent?

Like this:

Code: Select all

x = 53, y = 52, rule = LifeHistory
17.2A$18.A$17.A$11.2A4.2A$12.A2.2A3.A$12.A.A2.4A$13.A.A.A$15.2A2.2A$
14.A5.A28.2A$15.5A23.2A5.A$43.A.A.3A$15.2A.4A23.A.A$15.2A.A2.A23.2A2$
14.C29.C$15.C29.C$15.C29.C$14.C29.C3$18.2A$19.A$18.A$12.2A4.2A$13.A2.
2A3.A$13.A.A2.4A$14.A.A.A$16.2A2.2A$15.A5.A27.2A$11.2A3.5A22.2A5.A$4.
2A.2A2.A25.2D4.A.A.3A$5.A.A.A.A4.2A.4A14.D.D5.A.A$2A.A.A3.A.2A3.2A.A
2.A5.A10.D5.2A$A.2A.2A2.A.A14.3A10.2D$4.A2.A.A3.A.C9.A15.D2.C5.2A$4.A
.2A.A.A4.C5.2A2.A12.3D3.C5.A$5.A2.A3.A3.C2.2A3.2A.A10.D6.C2.3A$6.A8.C
3.2A.A4.A10.2D4.C3.A$3.3A16.5A.2A.A17.2A$3.A5.A2.A.A4.2A.A.A.A.A.2A
11.2D5.A$9.5A.A4.A.A.A.A15.D.D5.A.A$20.A2.2A.2A12.3D.D.D4.2A$11.4A.A
2.2A18.D5.2D$10.A5.A22.2D$10.2A2.2A$13.A.A.A$10.4A2.A.A$10.A3.2A2.A$
12.2A4.2A$13.A$12.A$12.2A!

If the eater bridge eater catalysis recovered as slowly as the grin reagent does, so that the key second cell in the domino pair on the catalyst's surface didn't reappear until later than 6 ticks, then that p12 rotor would work with four eater bridge eaters.

[mniemiec]

I realized something... many newcomers (mistakenly) think that the LifeWiki contains all known information about CGoL, even things like random still lives, P2s, medium-lived methuselahs etc.
Why is this the case?

One thing that is fairly common among wikis in general is that they don't include all knowledge about a subject (as that is rarely practical), but only what is **notable**. If it's not in the wiki, it either means that it is unknown (unlikely), or is known but not worthy of mention (much more likely, especially in the case of simple discoveries, e.g. P2s, small patterns).

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

I realized something... many newcomers (mistakenly) think that the LifeWiki contains all known information about CGoL, even things like random still lives, P2s, medium-lived methuselahs etc.
Why is this the case?

One thing that is fairly common among wikis in general is that they don't include all knowledge about a subject (as that is rarely practical), but only what is **notable**. If it's not in the wiki, it either means that it is unknown (unlikely), or is known but not worthy of mention (much more likely, especially in the case of simple discoveries, e.g. P2s, small patterns).

Ah! It's because of the difference in notability criteria between newcomers and the LifeWiki...

[MEisSCAMMER]

Perhaps we could tell newcomers (in a conspicuous position on the main page) that it's possible to find out whether or not a pattern is known by pasting the pattern into the object identifier in Catagolue and seeing whether any sample soups are listed?

[hotdogPi]

Perhaps we could tell newcomers (in a conspicuous position on the main page) that it's possible to find out whether or not a pattern is known by pasting the pattern into the object identifier in Catagolue and seeing whether any sample soups are listed?

Newcomers don't know what RLE is. They just screenshot from the playgameoflife webpage.

[MEisSCAMMER]

Perhaps we could tell newcomers (in a conspicuous position on the main page) that it's possible to find out whether or not a pattern is known by pasting the pattern into the object identifier in Catagolue and seeing whether any sample soups are listed?

Newcomers don't know what RLE is. They just screenshot from the playgameoflife webpage.

I've... never heard of that website. I've always used LifeViewer, which uses RLEs on the clipboard. I was thinking on that rationale.

[GUYTU6J]

Perhaps we could tell newcomers (in a conspicuous position on the main page) that it's possible to find out whether or not a pattern is known by pasting the pattern into the object identifier in Catagolue and seeing whether any sample soups are listed?

Newcomers don't know what RLE is. They just screenshot from the playgameoflife webpage.

I've... never heard of that website. I've always used LifeViewer, which uses RLEs on the clipboard. I was thinking on that rationale.

There has been some time when the website is on the top of Google search results. Now that we have an awesome main page with higher quality, it may be beneficial to consider a "rank booster" of some sorts.

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

The Odd traffic stop page does not mention that the odd traffic stop can also function as a regular traffic stop:

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
4b2o25b2o$5bo26bo$5bobo24bobo$6b2o11bo13b2o$10b3o5bo18b3o6bo$18bo26bo$
3b2o3bo5bo3b2o10b2o3bo5bo3bo$3bo4bo5bo15bo4bo5bo3b2o$2obo4bo5bo12b2obo
4bo5bo$o2b3o21bo2b3o$b2o3bo21b2o3bo$3b4o23b4o$3bo9b2o15bo9b2o$bobob2o
6bo14bobob2o6bo$b2o2bo8b3o11b2o2bo8b3o$5bobo8bo15bobo8bo$6b2o25b2o!
#C Note: the bottom eater 1 is one cell lower than in the infobox form

Also, the Quetzal page states that standard Herschel conduits do not permit guns with period lower than 62, but this has since been reduced to 58 with the discovery of HRx65R. Does that need a mention on the wiki article?

[qqd]

What, exactly, does 'self-forcing' mean in a self-forcing patch mean that is often used to prove something is synthesizable? And why is it helpful in the proof?

[dvgrn]

What, exactly, does 'self-forcing' mean in a self-forcing patch mean that is often used to prove something is synthesizable? And why is it helpful in the proof?

Choose a group of ON and OFF cells that is present in the Life universe at time T=1. Their presence at T=1 implies that the universe was in some state at T=0 that produced those ON and OFF cells at T=1.

If you can prove that the only possible state of that group of cells at T=0 was the same exact state that you see them in at T=1 -- no matter what the states of other cells not in that group might be ... then that group of cells is "self-forcing".

A still life containing a self-forcing patch of cells is provably unsynthesizable, for fairly obvious reasons: you can't start with empty space and build such a still life, because that key group of ON and OFF cells must always be present in every possible predecessor of the pattern.

Things get a little trickier because the discovery path usually starts with finding a self-forcing agar -- a pattern that is self-forcing if you repeat copies of it forever in all directions -- and then figuring out how to put copies of the repeating unit next to each other in a way that creates a finite self-forcing patch.

[TYCF]

Does this rule simulate Wolfram's Rule 22 ?

Code: Select all

x = 5000, y = 1, rule = B3-k/S23-kr
5000o!

[wirehead]

Does this rule simulate Wolfram's Rule 22 ?

Code: Select all

x = 5000, y = 1, rule = B3-k/S23-kr
5000o!

Yes

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = W22
o!

[dvgrn]

Does this rule simulate Wolfram's Rule 22 ?

Code: Select all

x = 5000, y = 1, rule = B3-k/S23-kr
5000o!

Yes

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = W22
o!

Sort of, anyway. It produces the usual kind of Sierpinski-triangle pattern, but doesn't make anywhere near exactly the same pattern of ON and OFF cells. The lowest levels of the triangles are made out of blinkers and traffic lights, and they're not always identical to each other, so you'd have to do a bit of work to "decode" one of these patterns into a standard Wolfram Rule 22 pattern.

And all bets are off in this particular pattern if you go past T=2500, of course.

Now, even plain B3/S23 makes something suspiciously Sierpinski-triangle-ish under similar circumstances. The "decoding" would have to be a bit more complicated, though.

Code: Select all

x = 5000, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
5000o!

[TYCF]

Thank you!

Is this called a long test tube baby?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3b2o4b2o$2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b4o2b4o$obo2bo2bo2bobo$2o4b2o4b2o!

Or is this a long test tube baby?

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2$5b2o4b2o$4bo2bo2bobo$4b4o2bo$2bobo2bo2bo$2b2o4b2o!

[hotdogPi]

While a "long test tube baby" doesn't actually exist, I would rather use it for this.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
b2o4b2o$bobo2bobo$3b4o$3bo2bo$2obo2bob2o$2obo2bob2o$4b2o!

[dvgrn]

Is this called a long test tube baby?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3b2o4b2o$2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b4o2b4o$obo2bo2bo2bobo$2o4b2o4b2o!

Nah, that's more "wide" than "long", I'd say.

The first step in looking for names these days is generally pasting the RLE into the Object page in Catagolue. All it says in this case is "xp2_31egge55egge13", though -- leaving the important philosophical question unanswered, of whether this thing is "two welded test tube babies" ... or possibly "three welded test tube babies", since this p2 is probably "two welded test tube babies" -- maybe with some kind of adjective thrown in there about the orientations being diametrically opposite.

[TYCF]

Is this called a long test tube baby?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3b2o4b2o$2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b4o2b4o$obo2bo2bo2bobo$2o4b2o4b2o!

Nah, that's more "wide" than "long", I'd say.

The first step in looking for names these days is generally pasting the RLE into the Object page in Catagolue. All it says in this case is "xp2_31egge55egge13", though -- leaving the important philosophical question unanswered, of whether this thing is "two welded test tube babies" ... or possibly "three welded test tube babies", since this p2 is probably "two welded test tube babies" -- maybe with some kind of adjective thrown in there about the orientations being diametrically opposite.

Maybe "Asymmetric wide test tube baby" or "Asymmetric two welded test tube babies".

[wirehead]

Sort of, anyway. It produces the usual kind of Sierpinski-triangle pattern, but doesn't make anywhere near exactly the same pattern of ON and OFF cells. The lowest levels of the triangles are made out of blinkers and traffic lights, and they're not always identical to each other, so you'd have to do a bit of work to "decode" one of these patterns into a standard Wolfram Rule 22 pattern.

What I meant was that the cells in the middle follow W22, but horizontally. It would continue infinitely if there was an infinite line of them. I ignored the blinker junk on the ends.

Code: Select all

x = 100, y = 1, rule=B3-k/S23-kr:T100,0
100o!

[Haycat2009]

Just curious... What is the smallest thing that can count the number of gliders in a signal? The gliders in the signal will be in a constant period and it should emit its output as a glider, with the position of the glider depending on the number of gliders counted. Also, it only has to be able to count from 1-9. Thanks in advance.

[TYCF]

Is there a way to create a link to show a part of text in the wiki?

[dvgrn]

Is there a way to create a link to show a part of text in the wiki?

Can you give specifics, like "I want to see such-and-such text, and I want clicking on that text to link to such-and-such URL"?

The two relevant pieces of syntax are probably

[[Name of LifeWiki article|text to display]] for internal links to other LifeWiki articles -- notice there's a pipe character needed here, because LifeWiki articles can themselves include spaces, so that can't be used as the delimiter; and

and

[URL text to display] for external links -- here the URL isn't supposed to have spaces in it, so the first space serves as the delimiter between URL and link text.