Do you mean for the purpose of ensuring that it is practical or for the purpose of ensuring that we know which way the object would come in?bubblegum wrote: December 1st, 2020, 8:50 pmI prefer looking for conduits that produce it first, and then building a receiving converter after the first one.
The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Practicality.MathAndCode wrote: December 1st, 2020, 8:56 pmDo you mean for the purpose of ensuring that it is practical or for the purpose of ensuring that we know which way the object would come in?bubblegum wrote: December 1st, 2020, 8:50 pmI prefer looking for conduits that produce it first, and then building a receiving converter after the first one.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Ah; thank you for clarifying.
Of course, it's possible that it's popped up several times, and we just don't know because no one knew to look for it. I've mentioned this before, and I'm considering doing a soup search and tracking which active regions are the most common in order to get around this catch-22.
I am tentatively considering myself back.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
This has been done before.MathAndCode wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 12:50 pmAh; thank you for clarifying.
Of course, it's possible that it's popped up several times, and we just don't know because no one knew to look for it. I've mentioned this before, and I'm considering doing a soup search and tracking which active regions are the most common in order to get around this catch-22.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
This has been done two times.Extrementhusiast wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 12:53 amThis has been done before.MathAndCode wrote: December 2nd, 2020, 12:50 pmAh; thank you for clarifying.
Of course, it's possible that it's popped up several times, and we just don't know because no one knew to look for it. I've mentioned this before, and I'm considering doing a soup search and tracking which active regions are the most common in order to get around this catch-22.
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Thank you for informing me. This certainly is very interesting. For example, the I-sequence is indeed over twice as common as the dove sequence (as well as us having more conduits for making it and more conduits for turning it into something besides a glider), yet the latter but not the former is included in the conduits collection. As another example, contrary to dvgrn's assumptions, block-tie-blinker is fairly common (over one and a half times as common as the dove sequence). I would happily find conduits that accept some of the more active and common active regions that haven't been investigated much yet if someone can tell me which direction they typically come from or give me examples of them being made by conduits.
I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
For this, we need to analyse two things.MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 12:05 pm For example, the I-sequence is indeed over twice as common as the dove sequence (as well as us having more conduits for making it and more conduits for turning it into something besides a glider), yet the latter but not the former is included in the conduits collection.
1) The alternate heptominoes (E,I) never received as much attention as the dove until you came along with your belief that you can come along and overhaul everything we've been doing for the past two decades. (It's actually possible, so go ahead.)
2) The dove spreads out, leaving room for catalysts to modify it easily. The I really hates its blinker and tub and drops them as soon as possible, meaning conduits have to throw it back into its debris.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I am not trying to overhaul the entire catalyst system. For example, I have been using the standard conduit nomenclature, and I demonstrate the connectability of the conduits that I find by connecting them to other conduits that have already been found. I merely think that some active regions have been underinvestigated and do not like Herschel-centrism. Also, part of the reason why I tend to investigate active regions that have not already been extensively investigated is so that the conduits that I find will have an increased chance of being new.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 1:07 pm1) The alternate heptominoes (E,I) never received as much attention as the dove until you came along with your belief that you can come along and overhaul everything we've been doing for the past two decades. (It's actually possible, so go ahead.)
You can say that the dove should be more useful as an active region than the I-sequence, but the fact of the matter is that we know of three stable conduits that make an I-sequence but only one stable conduit that makes a dove sequence, and while we have three stable conduits that accept each, we have two stable conduits that turn an I sequence into something besides a glider and no stable conduits that turn a dove sequence into something besides a glider. It seems that so far, the I sequence has proven more useful conduit-wise than the dove sequence.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 1:07 pm2) The dove spreads out, leaving room for catalysts to modify it easily. The I really hates its blinker and tub and drops them as soon as possible, meaning conduits have to throw it back into its debris.
Edit: I found a reaction that suggests a partial ∏→E.
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
.A$2.2A$.2CD2.2A$.D4.A.A$.3D3.2A13$.D$3D$D.D$2.D!Another edit: While trying to complete the ∏→E, I found something even more interesting.
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
A$3A$3.A$2.2A6$10.2A$10.2A$5.3C$5.C$5.3C!I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
No, it's because there are more people who care about the I (like 2) than the dove.MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 1:52 pmYou can say that the dove should be more useful as an active region than the I-sequence, but the fact of the matter is that we know of three stable conduits that make an I-sequence but only one stable conduit that makes a dove sequence, and while we have three stable conduits that accept each, we have two stable conduits that turn an I sequence into something besides a glider and no stable conduits that turn a dove sequence into something besides a glider. It seems that so far, the I sequence has proven more useful conduit-wise than the dove sequence.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 1:07 pm2) The dove spreads out, leaving room for catalysts to modify it easily. The I really hates its blinker and tub and drops them as soon as possible, meaning conduits have to throw it back into its debris.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I also investigated the dove for stable conduits that accept it, and I did not find any.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 2:53 pmNo, it's because there are more people who care about the I (like 2) than the dove.
I am tentatively considering myself back.
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wwei23
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 1:52 pm Another edit: While trying to complete the ∏→E, I found something even more interesting.
Code: Select all
x = 23, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
11.A$11.3A$14.A$13.2A6$2A19.2A$A.A18.2A$.2A13.3C$16.C$16.3C!
Does a beehive basically on top of where the dove is supposed to be considered an output?MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 3:18 pm I also investigated the dove for stable conduits that accept it, and I did not find any.
At the same time, I don't remember being able to get anything starting from an I either.
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
That's impressive how you were able to find one object that gets rid of everything else. However, unless you know of a way to regenerate the block, ship, and fishhook quickly enough so that the next ∏ can come with repeat time at most 300, we're going to have to find another way to make this work. Replacing the fishhook or adding another catalyst might be feasible, but I highly doubt that the block can be replaced with a catalyst that can perform both catalyses without getting destroyed, especially a catalyst small enough to allow the ∏ to get where it needs to be, considering that it already looks difficult.wwei23 wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 4:49 pmCode: Select all
x = 23, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory 11.A$11.3A$14.A$13.2A6$2A19.2A$A.A18.2A$.2A13.3C$16.C$16.3C!
Of course, I realized that getting the ∏ in there in the first place would be difficult earlier, but I posted the reaction anyway since we don't have any good ways to make LWSSes for conduits. However, letting the block be transparent, which we now realize is necessary, makes getting the ∏ in much easier. I see three main possibilities: there might be a way to create an active region that edgeshoots a ∏ with trailing junk that settles into a block (or a beehive) in the right place, and I suspect that there's some collection of near-miss conduits that make active objects with a residual object or two behind them, but this particular block and ∏ combination might even be in an E-making conduit; we could try to make the ∏ and the block separately with synchronized signals, although I'm concerned about the crowding if we try that; or we could just use the method that I found to make the ∏ and block in the first place, namely shooting a glider at a ship (or boat). Of course, the fishhook would get in the way of the glider, but I don't think that there's a way to prevent it from getting destroyed even if we manage to insert the ∏ via another mechanism, so we should replace it with a transparent block anyway.
Code: Select all
x = 21, y = 34, rule = DoubleB3S23
6.2C$6.2C$11.C$10.2C$10.C.C$11.C12$2.C$C.C$.2C12$18.2C$18.C.C$19.CB!Edit: Unfortunately, this doesn't work.
Code: Select all
x = 59, y = 104, rule = LifeHistory
16.2E.E$16.E.2E2$17.5E$12.2E2.E4.E$12.E2.E.BEB$13.E.E.2EB$12.2E.E.4BE
$15.E3.BEBE$15.2E2.E2BE$20.2E3B$22.7B$22.9B$22.10B$22.11B$18.14B$18.
14B$17.16B$17.17B$17.11B2E4B$18.10B2E9B$18.24B$18.25B$19.24B$20.24B$
19.26B$20.26B$18.29B$18.2E.21B2E4B$19.E3.18BE2BE3B$16.3E5.9B.8B2E4B$
16.E7.8B3.4B2.6B$26.5B5.4B2.B$26.6B5.4B$26.7B4.4B$27.2B.4B3.5B2.B$25.
4B2.4B.6B.B2E$25.2E5.12B2EB$26.E6.9B.3B$23.3E8.8B.2B$23.E10.8B.4B.2E.
E$24.2E8.14BE.2E$25.E9.13B$25.E.EB4.15B$26.2EB.17B$28.20B$28.19B$29.
17B.2B$25.2B.20B2E$24.22B.B2E$23.22B3.B$23.3BC17B$23.3BCBC16B$22.4B3C
17B$9.A12.6BC17B6.2E$9.3A10.25B5.E$12.A9.26B.BE.E$11.2A12.23B.B2E$19.
2B4.26B$27.23B$3.2A20.25B$3.A21.2E.B.18B5.A$2A.A22.E4.17B4.A.A$A2.3A
4.2A11.3E5.16B6.A$.2A3.A3.2A11.E7.17B$3.4A23.20B7.2D$3.A15.2A9.21B6.
2D$4.3A12.A.A6.2EB.20BD$7.A13.A5.E.EB3.18BDBD$2.5A14.2A4.E5.19B3DB$2.
A23.2E4.22BD$4.A28.20B$3.2A27.16B$32.15B$33.12B$34.7B.3B$34.6B$32.2EB
.3B$31.E.EB3.2B$31.E5.B2EB$30.2E6.2E2$36.4A$35.A3.A$35.2A7$25.2A$24.A
.A5.2A$24.A7.2A$23.2A2$37.A$33.2A.A.A$32.A.A.A.A$29.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$29.
4A.2A2.A2.A$33.A4.2A$31.A.A$31.2A!I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Here's some proof-of-concept work:MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 3:18 pmI also investigated the dove for stable conduits that accept it, and I did not find any.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 2:53 pmNo, it's because there are more people who care about the I (like 2) than the dove.
Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo18b2o$bo2bo17b2o$2b3o10$12b2o$12bobo$14bo$14b2o2$2o$2o!
(This looks more promising than that pi-to-LWSS though.)
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I have also found many promising interactions with the I sequence that have not yielded actual conduits. I get your point, and if more dove conduits are been found in the future, this will change, but right now, doves are not very useful to conduits. They do show promise, but they are currently not useful in conduit making.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 8:52 pmHere's some proof-of-concept work:We want something other than dove-to-inaccessible-B-plus-lots-of-junk, though.Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 20, rule = B3/S23 b2o$o2bo18b2o$bo2bo17b2o$2b3o10$12b2o$12bobo$14bo$14b2o2$2o$2o!
(This looks more promising than that pi-to-LWSS though.)
By the way, blonk-tie seems promising. So far today, I have tried one catalyst placement, and I got a clean ∏.
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$5b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo3$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
MathAndCode wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 9:58 pmI have also found many promising interactions with the I sequence that have not yielded actual conduits. I get your point, and if more dove conduits are been found in the future, this will change, but right now, doves are not very useful to conduits. They do show promise, but they are currently not useful in conduit making.bubblegum wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 8:52 pmHere's some proof-of-concept work:We want something other than dove-to-inaccessible-B-plus-lots-of-junk, though.Code: Select all
x = 24, y = 20, rule = B3/S23 b2o$o2bo18b2o$bo2bo17b2o$2b3o10$12b2o$12bobo$14bo$14b2o2$2o$2o!
(This looks more promising than that pi-to-LWSS though.)
By the way, blonk-tie seems promising. So far today, I have tried one catalyst placement, and I got a clean ∏.Also, it produces a B without any catalysts, so maybe that could be made into a B-producing or H-producing conduit.Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 11, rule = B3/S23 5b2o$5b2o$7bo$7bo$7bo3$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$12bo$12bo$12bo$10b2o$2o8b2o$o2bob2o$2b2ob2o2$2b2ob2o$
bobobo$obo4bo$2o4b2o!
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MathAndCode
- Posts: 5259
- Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Active regions, especially those that already have known catalysts accepting them, are typically more useful than stationary objects, especially stationary objects that are not edgeshoot.Hunting wrote: December 3rd, 2020, 10:18 pmCode: Select all
x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23 2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$12bo$12bo$12bo$10b2o$2o8b2o$o2bob2o$2b2ob2o2$2b2ob2o$ bobobo$obo4bo$2o4b2o!
Also, here are two Bs that I was unable to extract from the dove.
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
10.2A$9.A2.A$10.A2.A11.2A$11.3A11.2A6$2D.D$.3D$2.D19$17.2D.D$18.3D$19.D!Edit: I have seen several close calls with my work on the LWSS-making conduit. Here is the latest.
Code: Select all
x = 74, y = 84, rule = LifeHistory
12.A$11.A.A$12.2A11$24.B$17.A5.3D$16.A.A4.BDB$17.A4.3D2B$22.5B$21.6B$
21.6B$22.5B$22.6B$21.6B$21.7B$22.6B$22.6B$4.A17.2B2AB$3.A.A15.3B2A2B$
3.A.A15.7B$.3A.2A15.5B$A4.B6.3B6.B.4B10.2A$.3AB2A4.4B5.6B10.A.A$3.A.
2A2.19B8.A$5.3B.19B6.3A$7.23B2.BAB2.2A$6.25B.B4A2.A$6.23B2D2B.B2.A.A$
6.22B2D3B2AB2A.2A$7.22BD2B.AB5.A$8.B2.20B3.2A.2A$11.19B5.A.A$11.8B3.
6B7.A.A$11.16B9.A32.2A$11.14B44.A$11.12B48.A$11.12B28.2A14.5A$12.2B.
4B3DB29.A13.A$16.4BD2B29.A.A12.3A$16.2B3D2B30.2A15.A$17.6B44.4A$17.7B
38.2A3.A3.2A$19.B.4B37.2A4.3A2.A$22.4B44.A.2A$23.3B44.A$24.2B2A41.2A$
25.BA.A$28.A9.A$28.3A5.3A22.2A$31.A3.A25.A$30.2A3.2A25.3A$64.A2$43.C$
43.3C$18.2A23.C.C$18.2A25.C2$9.2A.A7.D$9.A.2A6.3D$18.2D.D4$15.2A$14.A
.A$14.A$13.2A26.2A$41.A$35.2A.A3.3A$35.2A.4A2.A$41.A$35.2A.3A$34.A2.
2A$34.2A!I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Just three small interrelated historical context for the Herschel-centric theme (Sorry for being offtopic, just this post)
I don't mind you disagree with minor facts BTW (feel free to correct me), I'm just suggesting the big picture.
1. People have been looking through Herschels since a long time ago.
The first "conduit"s was B/R/H based. The field of "Stable signal circuitry" was probably made because of the H conduits and the first signal reflector(1996, I think). For quite a long time "Stable signal circuitry" just meant "Herschel circuitry" because these were the only ways to make reasonable-sized stable circuits.
'
By the way, This was where I used to hang out before finding the ConwayLife Forum :)
On the "Selected Topics" you can see some fun articles in the past era of Life.
2. It was supported by a circuit assembling program called Hersrch. (Used for making guns in the pre-Syringe era)
Actually I'd rather say the elementary conduits aren't supported enough, I guess. I think there is a chance for shrinking some of the guns with an automated run by an automated tool, but nobody has done that feat yet. (And I guess I have some responsibility over that too)
3. Herschel is easily found in random ash, which led people to explore things. (Which I guess led to 1 and 2 and so on.)
Yes I think there are selection bias, yes, I feel this looks like QWERTY, yes, this seems like a positive feedback loop, but that was how it went I guess, and it worked well enough for a gazillion of circuitry you see now.
(And 4. dvgrn maintains the conduit collections, but that's (hopefully) ongoing history, so I'll make that as a separate point.)
By the way, I think the Herschel-centralism (and the conduits in general) is fading at this point with the advent of the Syringe and the Snark.
If you find a G->I->2G or G->E->2G then I'm pretty sure people would race to find I and E conduits without any encouragement from anyone.
People aren't biased because of other reasons, they're just using the best tool for the job for what it is now.
(My guess is that the conduits are going to be used more sparingly if there pops out a more compact and fast G-to-2G)
I don't mind you disagree with minor facts BTW (feel free to correct me), I'm just suggesting the big picture.
1. People have been looking through Herschels since a long time ago.
The first "conduit"s was B/R/H based. The field of "Stable signal circuitry" was probably made because of the H conduits and the first signal reflector(1996, I think). For quite a long time "Stable signal circuitry" just meant "Herschel circuitry" because these were the only ways to make reasonable-sized stable circuits.
'
By the way, This was where I used to hang out before finding the ConwayLife Forum :)
On the "Selected Topics" you can see some fun articles in the past era of Life.
2. It was supported by a circuit assembling program called Hersrch. (Used for making guns in the pre-Syringe era)
Actually I'd rather say the elementary conduits aren't supported enough, I guess. I think there is a chance for shrinking some of the guns with an automated run by an automated tool, but nobody has done that feat yet. (And I guess I have some responsibility over that too)
3. Herschel is easily found in random ash, which led people to explore things. (Which I guess led to 1 and 2 and so on.)
Yes I think there are selection bias, yes, I feel this looks like QWERTY, yes, this seems like a positive feedback loop, but that was how it went I guess, and it worked well enough for a gazillion of circuitry you see now.
(And 4. dvgrn maintains the conduit collections, but that's (hopefully) ongoing history, so I'll make that as a separate point.)
By the way, I think the Herschel-centralism (and the conduits in general) is fading at this point with the advent of the Syringe and the Snark.
If you find a G->I->2G or G->E->2G then I'm pretty sure people would race to find I and E conduits without any encouragement from anyone.
People aren't biased because of other reasons, they're just using the best tool for the job for what it is now.
(My guess is that the conduits are going to be used more sparingly if there pops out a more compact and fast G-to-2G)
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Missing the +1 button and the heart button from lichess. But really, didn't syringe encourage Herschel-centralism?
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
Yes, because it allowed glider-to-Herschels easily (the missing core part of Herschel-centrism), and no, because it solidified the single glider as a viable signal medium with its own interconversions.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
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- Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I don't have a problem with the fact that people were looking for Herschel conduits. I have used Herschel conduits myself, e.g. here. My problem is when users practice Herschel-centrism to the detriment of non-Herschel conduits, including chaining them into composite Herschel conduits and refusing to acknowledge elementary conduits until they have been chained as such.Scorbie wrote: December 4th, 2020, 1:44 am1. People have been looking through Herschels since a long time ago.
The first "conduit"s was B/R/H based. The field of "Stable signal circuitry" was probably made because of the H conduits and the first signal reflector(1996, I think). For quite a long time "Stable signal circuitry" just meant "Herschel circuitry" because these were the only ways to make reasonable-sized stable circuits.
Yes, Herschel conduits are useful for making guns, but other conduits can be used as well. As you mentioned, it's possible that running a similar search program will result in more efficient solutions at some periods.Scorbie wrote: December 4th, 2020, 1:44 am2. It was supported by a circuit assembling program called Hersrch. (Used for making guns in the pre-Syringe era)
Actually I'd rather say the elementary conduits aren't supported enough, I guess. I think there is a chance for shrinking some of the guns with an automated run by an automated tool, but nobody has done that feat yet. (And I guess I have some responsibility over that too)
The Herschel sequence does not occur very often besides being spawned by a B-sequence, which in turn comes from an R-sequence more often than it doesn't, but there aren't nearly as many R→R conduits as H→H conduits. Also, the ∏-sequence is about as common as the R-sequence, but again, there aren't nearly ∏→∏ conduits as H→H conduits.Scorbie wrote: December 4th, 2020, 1:44 am3. Herschel is easily found in random ash, which led people to explore things. (Which I guess led to 1 and 2 and so on.)
I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I agree that the second is a (albeit unsolvable due to practicality reasons) problem, but the first sounds like you're just prejudiced against Herschels because they're the standard.MathAndCode wrote: December 4th, 2020, 2:38 pm I don't have a problem with the fact that people were looking for Herschel conduits. I have used Herschel conduits myself, e.g. here. My problem is when users practice Herschel-centrism to the detriment of non-Herschel conduits, including chaining them into composite Herschel conduits and refusing to acknowledge elementary conduits until they have been chained as such.
Yes, but we need to know what reactions are useful, and Herschels have shown themselves reliably usable (just look at a handful of the variable guns).MathAndCode wrote: December 4th, 2020, 2:38 pm Yes, Herschel conduits are useful for making guns, but other conduits can be used as well. As you mentioned, it's possible that running a similar search program will result in more efficient solutions at some periods.
The Herschel instead of B tradition came from that one annoying block that has to be removed; a good way to remove it is (often the only sensible one that fits) Conduit 1 but that creates a Herschel <s>which is unacceptable</s>. The R of course also drops a bit of annoying debris which can be removed easily but that's an R->B. (The only R->R I can remember translates it backwards.) The pi (the symbol you're using by the way is the continued product symbol which is not only distinct from any of the actual pi symbols Π,π,ϖ, but is pi in the way that C is Γ, i.e. it's not pi) has an unhelpful reaction envelope which either forces the pi's catalysts to be very far out or squishes them into a space you can barely fit a pi into.MathAndCode wrote: December 4th, 2020, 2:38 pm The Herschel sequence does not occur very often besides being spawned by a B-sequence, which in turn comes from an R-sequence more often than it doesn't, but there aren't nearly as many R→R conduits as H→H conduits. Also, the ∏-sequence is about as common as the R-sequence, but again, there aren't nearly ∏→∏ conduits as H→H conduits.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
There's one major, characteristic trait of Herschels that has allowed Herschel-centrism, which I don't think has been mentioned yet: they move. They do it in a convenient way, too. A Herschel that comes out of a conduit will transports its 'explosion' in a distinct path and direction, and this path vacates the place where it first appeared, without flailing about in such a way that it is nigh-guaranteed to knock over catalysts from the conduit it came from. (Looking at you, century and Pi, but I'm also giving hard side-eye at R.) That is why Herschels are so great. For any new conduit, if the input is an H, it is almost guaranteed to be able to connect to something as long as you don't put a catalyst directly behind the Herschel. If its output in a Herschel, it has probably (but not always) formed by launching itself 20 cells away from an active region via B-heptomino. It has also probably formed in a way such that it's pointing away from your new conduit, rather than an R or C, which like to do the opposite of that.
This is part of the motivation behind the (unnecessary) packaging of elementary conduits into Herschel conduits. Once you prove that you can get back to a Herschel, you're home free to connect that to whatever you want.
The "no connections" graveyard is built on centuries, Pi heptominos, B heptminos, and Rs. It is not built on Herschels. The only signals that do better in this respect are gliders.
This is part of the motivation behind the (unnecessary) packaging of elementary conduits into Herschel conduits. Once you prove that you can get back to a Herschel, you're home free to connect that to whatever you want.
The "no connections" graveyard is built on centuries, Pi heptominos, B heptminos, and Rs. It is not built on Herschels. The only signals that do better in this respect are gliders.
Tanner Jacobi
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.
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MathAndCode
- Posts: 5259
- Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I just used Herschel conduits again. (They are composite conduits, but they were from the original universal list of Herschel conduits.)bubblegum wrote: December 4th, 2020, 3:08 pmI agree that the second is a (albeit unsolvable due to practicality reasons) problem, but the first sounds like you're just prejudiced against Herschels because they're the standard.
Code: Select all
x = 72, y = 92, rule = LifeHistory
2A$A.A$.2A12$6.A5.3D$5.A.A5.D$6.A4.3D16$11.2A$11.2A2$2.2A.A7.D$2.A.2A
6.3D$11.2D.D2$22.2A$22.A$20.A.A$20.2A3$6.2A$5.A.A$5.A$4.2A3$67.2A$67.
A$69.A$18.3D28.2A14.5A$9.2A8.D30.A13.A$10.A6.3D30.A.A12.3A$7.3A41.2A
15.A$7.A57.4A$60.2A3.A3.2A$60.2A4.3A2.A$68.A.2A$25.2A41.A$25.A.A39.2A
$27.A9.A$27.3A5.3A$30.A3.A24.2A$29.2A3.2A23.A$60.3A$62.A$42.C$42.3C$
17.2A23.C.C$17.2A25.C2$8.2A.A7.D$8.A.2A6.3D$17.2D.D4$14.2A$13.A.A$13.
A$12.2A26.2A$40.A$34.2A.A3.3A$34.2A.4A2.A$40.A$34.2A.3A$33.A2.2A$33.2A!I am tentatively considering myself back.
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
That sacrificial ship is painful.MathAndCode wrote: December 4th, 2020, 3:20 pm I just used Herschel conduits again. (They are composite conduits, but they were from the original universal list of Herschel conduits.)Code: Select all
x = 72, y = 92, rule = LifeHistory 2A$A.A$.2A12$6.A5.3D$5.A.A5.D$6.A4.3D16$11.2A$11.2A2$2.2A.A7.D$2.A.2A 6.3D$11.2D.D2$22.2A$22.A$20.A.A$20.2A3$6.2A$5.A.A$5.A$4.2A3$67.2A$67. A$69.A$18.3D28.2A14.5A$9.2A8.D30.A13.A$10.A6.3D30.A.A12.3A$7.3A41.2A 15.A$7.A57.4A$60.2A3.A3.2A$60.2A4.3A2.A$68.A.2A$25.2A41.A$25.A.A39.2A $27.A9.A$27.3A5.3A$30.A3.A24.2A$29.2A3.2A23.A$60.3A$62.A$42.C$42.3C$ 17.2A23.C.C$17.2A25.C2$8.2A.A7.D$8.A.2A6.3D$17.2D.D4$14.2A$13.A.A$13. A$12.2A26.2A$40.A$34.2A.A3.3A$34.2A.4A2.A$40.A$34.2A.3A$33.A2.2A$33.2A!
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
anythingsonata wrote:July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pmconwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
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MathAndCode
- Posts: 5259
- Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits
I'm hoping to figure out a way to restore it (or a boat in the same position), but I choose to focus synchronizing the glider and the block first.
Edit: I managed to get rid of the junk except for a beehive near the ship's original position.
Code: Select all
x = 72, y = 112, rule = LifeHistory
13.2A5.2A$13.2A5.2A17$26.2A$26.2A$2A$A.A$.2A12$6.A5.3D$5.A.A5.D$6.A4.
3D16$11.2A$11.2A2$2.2A.A7.D$2.A.2A6.3D$11.2D.D2$22.2A$22.A$20.A.A$20.
2A3$6.2A$5.A.A$5.A$4.2A3$67.2A$67.A$69.A$18.3D28.2A14.5A$9.2A8.D30.A13.
A$10.A6.3D30.A.A12.3A$7.3A41.2A15.A$7.A57.4A$60.2A3.A3.2A$60.2A4.3A2.
A$68.A.2A$25.2A41.A$25.A.A39.2A$27.A9.A$27.3A5.3A$30.A3.A24.2A$29.2A3.
2A23.A$60.3A$62.A$42.C$42.3C$17.2A23.C.C$17.2A25.C2$8.2A.A7.D$8.A.2A6.
3D$17.2D.D4$14.2A$13.A.A$13.A$12.2A26.2A$40.A$34.2A.A3.3A$34.2A.4A2.A
$40.A$34.2A.3A$33.A2.2A$33.2A!
Last edited by MathAndCode on December 5th, 2020, 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am tentatively considering myself back.