Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

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PK22
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » October 24th, 2025, 3:52 am

To fix over-densification, I have created a modification of idgun.py and contrsynth.py, which should accept guns with the same bounding box but lower population.
For idgun.py, I added a new function, get_raw_population, which determines the population of a gun ignoring state-2 cells:

Code: Select all

def clip(pattern, rect):
    return pattern[rect[0]:rect[0]+rect[2], rect[1]:rect[1]+rect[3]]

def is_gun(pattern, true_period):
    """Test if the given pattern is a gun.

    A pattern is a gun only if the pattern and the resulting gliders after `true_period`
    are separately evolvable. This filters out non-guns having heisenburp-like reactions.
    """
    gliders = pattern[true_period] - pattern
    for phase in range(true_period):
        if (pattern[true_period + phase] == pattern[phase] + gliders[phase]
                and (pattern[phase] & gliders[phase]).population == 0):
            continue
        return False
    return True

def get_raw_population(pattern):
    #New function which might help fix the pointless densification.
    #It finds the raw population of a gun without any state-2 LifeHistory cells.
    #In contrsynth.py, this will be called to compare guns with the same bounding box.

    #Remove state-2 cells:
    pattern2 = pattern.replace('B', 'b')

    #Return new population:
    return pattern2.population
    
    
def get_bounding_box_naive(gun, true_period, period, naive_envelope, unclipped_envelope):
    """Get the bounding box with a naive algorithm or throw an error
    if the naive algorithm cannot be applied.

    We iterate the gun, remove the gliders whenever it crosses
    our minimal bounding box, and hope that the resulting phases
    match the actual phases of the gun.
    The phases would not match when there is a heisenburp-like reaction
    at the edge of the envelope.
    """
    envelope = naive_envelope
    gun_phases = [gun[i] for i in range(true_period)]
    output_gliders = gun[true_period] - gun
    to_be_glider = output_gliders[-period] - output_gliders

    for i in range(true_period):
        if (gun - gun_phases[i]).population != 0:
            raise Error("Naive bounding box algorithm failed.")
        # Remove gliders until there isn't or the gun fits inside envelope
        while (gun - envelope).population != 0:
            if (to_be_glider - gun).population != 0:
                envelope = clip(unclipped_envelope, (envelope + gun).getrect())
                break
            gun -= to_be_glider
            to_be_glider = to_be_glider[-period]
        gun = gun[1]
        to_be_glider = to_be_glider[1]
    return envelope.getrect()

def get_bounding_box(gun, true_period, period, envelope_lower_bound):
    """Get the bounding box with a slower but always succeeding algorithm. """
    output_gliders = gun[true_period] - gun
    to_be_glider = output_gliders[-period] - output_gliders
    envelope = gun
    for i in range(true_period):
        # For each phase, delete gliders while the resulting pattern is a gun
        # until the pattern fits in the known lower bound of the bounding box
        # or there isn't a glider to delete.
        while (gun - envelope_lower_bound).population != 0:
            if (to_be_glider - gun).population != 0:
                break
            if not is_gun(gun - to_be_glider, true_period):
                break
            gun -= to_be_glider
            to_be_glider = to_be_glider[-period]
        envelope += gun
        gun = gun[1]
        to_be_glider = to_be_glider[1]
    return envelope.getrect()

def identify_gun(rle, lt4):

    a = lt4.pattern(rle)

    if a.empty():
        return []

    a = a[524288]
    x = lt4.pattern('', 'LifeHistory')
    x += a
    x = x[524288]
    p = x.population

    if (p < 1000000):
        return None

    if (p > 1500000):
        return None

    envelope = x.layers()[1]
    livecells = x[8].layers()[0]
    y = livecells - envelope
    envelope = x[256].layers()[1]

    if (y.population != 5):
        return None

    z = lt4.pattern("", "b3s23")
    z += y

    if (z.apgcode != 'xq4_153'):
        return None

    geater = lt4.pattern("bo$2bo$3o4$5b2o$5bo$6b3o$8bo!", "b3s23")

    eater = z.replace(geater[:3, :3], geater[100], orientations='rotate4reflect', n_phases=2)

    if (eater.population != 7):
        return None

    x += eater

    x = x[128]

    true_period = x.oscar(eventual_oscillator=False, maxexp=20)['period']

    print('True period: %d' % true_period)

    if (true_period > 100000):
        print('Period too large')
        return []

    gun = lt4.pattern("", "b3s23")
    gun += livecells

    if ((gun - gun[true_period]).population > 0):
        return None

    salvo = gun[true_period] - gun

    if salvo.population != 5:
        y = z.destream(salvo)[1:-1]
        y.append(y[-1])
        print(y)

        if (len(set(y)) != 1) or (sum(y) != true_period):
            print('Warning: intermittent glider gun')
            return []

        period = y[-1]
    else:
        period = true_period

    print('Stream period: %d' % period)

    if (period > 10000):
        print('Period too large')
        return []

    w = lt4.pattern("", "LifeHistory")
    w += z[-2097152]
    w = w[4194304]


    band = w.layers()[1]

    pbb = envelope - band
    r1 = z.getrect()
    r2 = z[1024].getrect()

    pbb += pbb(r1[0] - r2[0], r1[1] - r2[1])

    # The bounding box related to `r` is a lower bound but is not exact.
    # It does not take into account the sparks at the output glider lane.
    r = pbb.getrect()
    if (r is None) or (len(r) != 4):
        return None

    envelope_lower_bound = clip(envelope, r)
    r = envelope_lower_bound.getrect()

    # Find and use the phase where the gun is totally inside the
    # lower bound of the bounding box.
    # There is a possibility that this test could fail,
    # but this doesn't seem to occur in practice.
    for _ in range(true_period):
        gun_clipped = gun & envelope_lower_bound
        if is_gun(gun_clipped, true_period):
            gun = gun_clipped
            break
        gun = gun[1]
    else:
        print('Failure 1!')
        return None

    # Performance optimization:
    # we try the naive but fast algorithm first
    # and then try the slow but accurate one
    try:
        bounding_box = get_bounding_box_naive(
                gun,
                true_period,
                period,
                naive_envelope=envelope_lower_bound,
                unclipped_envelope=envelope)
    except:
        bounding_box = get_bounding_box(
                gun,
                true_period,
                period,
                envelope_lower_bound=envelope_lower_bound)
    true_envelope = clip(envelope, bounding_box)

    gun_canonical_phase = gun
    for _ in range(true_period):
        if (gun[1] - true_envelope).population > 0:
            gun_canonical_phase = gun
            break
        gun = gun[1]
    else:
        print('Failure 2!')
        return None

    r = bounding_box
    multiple = true_period
    thing = lt4.pattern("", "LifeHistory")
    thing += gun_canonical_phase
    thing = thing[multiple]
    thing = clip(thing, bounding_box)
    thing = thing(-r[0], -r[1])

    res = '\n\n#CSYNTH gun_%d costs %d cells.\n#C period %d fullperiod %d bbox %d by %d\n' % (period, r[2] * r[3], period, multiple, r[2], r[3])
    print(res)
    res += thing.rle_string()

    to_update = [(('gun_%d' % period), r[2] * r[3], res)]

    if (period == multiple):
        to_update.append((('guntrue_%d' % period), r[2] * r[3], res.replace('gun_', 'guntrue_')))

    return to_update
For contrsynth.py, if a potential new gun and the old gun have equal bounding boxes, the old gun's RLE is downloaded from Catagolue, and then the populations are compared. This does mean slightly more processing, but if that turns out to be a problem, it could be implemented only as a temporary measure to fix the significantly over-dense guns, once staging has been fixed:

Code: Select all

from urllib.request import urlopen, Request
from sys import argv
import os

import idgun


def main():

    filename = os.path.join('shinjuku', 'comp', 'cached_contrib.sjk')

    with open(filename, 'w') as f:
        f.write('# ensure this is empty\n')

    address = argv[2]

    guncosts = []
    for tab in ['gun', 'guntrue']:
        gc = urlopen(address + '/textcensus/b3s23/synthesis-costs/' + tab).read().decode()
        gc = [tuple(s.replace('"', '').split(',')) for s in gc.split('\n') if ',' in s]
        guncosts += gc[1:]
    guncosts = {k : (int(v) % 100000000000000000) for (k, v) in guncosts}

    from shinjuku import lt4
    from shinjuku.search import read_components
    from shinjuku.gliderset import gset
    from shinjuku.transcode import encode_comp, decode_comp, realise_comp
    from shinjuku.checks import rewind_check
    from shinjuku.synthtools import split_mosaic as split_synthesis

    def is_good(synthline):

        out_str = decode_comp(synthline)[2]
        pat = realise_comp(synthline)
        actual_str = pat.oscar(verbose=False, return_apgcode=True).get('apgcode', 'rubbish')
        return (out_str == actual_str)

    knowns = read_components()

    print("%d components known" % len(knowns))

    # Download contrib.sjk:
    dl_address = address + "/textsamples/xs0_contrib/b3s23/synthesis"
    contrib_lines = urlopen(dl_address).read().decode()
    contrib_lines = [s for s in contrib_lines.split('\n') if '>' in s]

    # Download front of RLE queue
    dl_address = address + "/readsynth"
    rle_lines = urlopen(dl_address).read().decode()
    rle_lines = [s for s in rle_lines.split('\n\n') if 'x' in s]

    to_delete = len(rle_lines) - 1

    second_round = os.path.exists('cata.txt')

    if second_round:
        with open('cata.txt') as f:
            coapgcodes = [x.strip() for x in f]
        for x in coapgcodes:
            print('Downloading %s' % x)
            dl_address = address + "/textsamples/" + x + "/b3s23/synthesis"
            rle_lines.append(urlopen(dl_address).read().decode())

    engulfed = set([])

    # Utilise existing synthesis-uploading framework:
    payload = "%s SYNTH b3s23\n" % argv[1]

    # Parse RLEs
    for rle in rle_lines:

        print(rle)

        x = None

        try:
            x = idgun.identify_gun(rle, lt4)
        except (ValueError, KeyError, TypeError):
            print("# Not a gun")

        if x is not None:

            for (gunname, guncost, gunrle) in x:

                if (gunname in guncosts) and (guncosts[gunname] <= guncost):
                    print('New cost %d is no better than existing cost %d' % (guncost, guncosts[gunname]))
                    if guncosts[gunname] == guncost:
                        #(New code)
                        #Ok, the bounding boxes are the same, but we're not done yet.
                        #There exists an issue known as 'pointless over-densification', where some guns have
                        #additional still lifes/oscillators uselessly packed into their bounding box.
                        #Discussion can be found here: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6916
                        #To fix this, the populations need to be compared:
                        newgunpt = lt4.pattern(gunrle)
                        og = urlopen(address + '/textsamples/b3s23/'+gunname+'/synthesis')
                        oldgunpt = lt.pattern(og)
                        newpop = idgun.get_raw_population(newgunpt)
                        oldpop = idgun.get_raw_population(oldgunpt)
                        if newpop < oldpop:
                            print('New population of '+str(newpop)+' exceeds old population of '+str(oldpop))
                            #No need to update guncosts, since guncosts[gunname] has to equal guncost.
                            payload += ('\n' + gunrle + '\n')
                        
                        
                else:
                    guncosts[gunname] = guncost
                    payload += ('\n' + gunrle + '\n')

            # If it's a gun then don't waste time digesting it as though it were a glider synthesis:
            continue

        for radius in [5, 8, 13, 21]:
            print("# Filtering with radius %d" % radius)
            try:
                subpatterns = [c for c in split_synthesis(rle, radius=radius-1, maxtime=1024)]
                for s in subpatterns:

                    w = s.wechsler
                    if (w != '#'):
                        if w in engulfed:
                            continue
                        print("# Engulfing %s" % w)
                        engulfed.add(w)

                    try:
                        dst = s[4096].apgcode
                        if s[4096][-4096] == s:
                            print("# Null component")
                            continue

                        x = s
                        g = gset.extract(x)
                        src = (x - g.s()).apgcode

                        directions = 0

                        for salvo in g.l:
                            if salvo.nonempty():
                                directions += 1
                                if (salvo[4].centre() != salvo.centre()):
                                    print("# contains unstable salvo")
                                    raise ValueError("Invalid synthesis.")

                        if (src == 'xs0_0') and (directions <= 1):
                            print("# Unstable unidirectional salvo")
                        elif src[:2] == 'xg':
                            print('# src is a gun; skipping...')
                        elif dst[:2] == 'xg':
                            print('# dst is a gun; skipping...')
                        else:
                            print("# processing src=%s, dst=%s..." % (src, dst))
                            c = encode_comp(s, remove_spaceships=False)
                            print(c)
                            if rewind_check(*realise_comp(c, separate=True)):
                                contrib_lines.append(c)
                            else:
                                raise ValueError("Not rewindable.")
                            print("#     ...success.")
                    except (ValueError, KeyError, TypeError):
                        print("# Invalid component")
            except (ValueError, KeyError, TypeError):
                print("# Incomprehensible pattern!")

    # Deduplicate against repository:
    contrib_lines = [s for s in set(contrib_lines) if (s not in knowns) and ('ov_' not in s)]
    contrib_lines = [s for s in contrib_lines if is_good(s)]
    contrib_lines.sort()

    print("%d original contributions" % len(contrib_lines))

    # Save to file:
    if '.' in argv[1]:
        with open(argv[1], 'w') as f:
            for l in contrib_lines:
                f.write('%s\n' % l)
        return

    payload += "\n#CSYNTH xs0_contrib costs 0 gliders.\n"
    payload += '\n'.join(contrib_lines)
    payload += '\nThis line contains an exclamation mark!\n'

    req = Request(address + "/commonnames", payload.encode('utf-8'), {"Content-type": "text/plain"})
    f = urlopen(req)

    print(f.read())

    if second_round:
        return

    # Save contrib.sjk into components folder. This means that when we
    # subsequently run diffupdate.py (immediately after this script),
    # the user contributions will be included in Catagolue immediately,
    # instead of waiting until they are incorporated into the Shinjuku
    # repostory.
    with open(filename, 'w') as f:
        f.write('# Start of contrib.sjk\n')
        for x in contrib_lines:
            f.write('%s\n' % x)
        f.write('# End of contrib.sjk\n')

    print("Saved contributions into %s" % filename)

    if (to_delete >= 1):
        print("Deleting %d RLEs...\n" % to_delete)
        payload = "%s DELSYNTH %d\n" % (argv[1], to_delete)
        req = Request(address + "/commonnames", payload.encode('utf-8'), {"Content-type": "text/plain"})
        f = urlopen(req)

    print("The operation completed successfully.")

if __name__ == '__main__':

    main()
User:PK22
Currently taking exams; unlikely to be active until mid June.
17/25 exams completed.

WhiteHawk
Posts: 1198
Joined: July 10th, 2024, 5:34 pm

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » November 12th, 2025, 10:40 pm

New strategy
PK22 wrote:
October 24th, 2025, 3:52 am
dvgrn wrote:
March 28th, 2025, 2:34 pm
Out of curiosity, who would actually be able to update and implement this code in Catagolue?
It also seems like killing two birds with one stone (the bounding box glitch) may also be worthwhile here.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

User avatar
PK22
Posts: 564
Joined: January 25th, 2025, 11:38 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » November 13th, 2025, 3:08 am

WhiteHawk wrote:
November 12th, 2025, 10:40 pm
Out of curiosity, who would actually be able to update and implement this code in Catagolue?
It also seems like killing two birds with one stone (the bounding box glitch) may also be worthwhile here.
It looks like I would need to create a separate fork of Catagolue, then submit a merge request and wait for that to be approved, or something along those lines. I agree that we should try to fix as many issues as possible, so I will also update some slightly outdated information with the same fork (such as making the new GPU symmetries official), as well as maybe fixing/adding some names.

I don’t know how to fix the bounding box glitch/detect glitched guns, but I’ll have some free time at the weekend, so I might be able to find a fix if someone knows what causes the glitch as well as the characteristics of glitched guns. I’m not too familiar with the idgun.py code that actually finds the bounding box, but it’s at least in a programming language I know, so I can probably figure it out.
User:PK22
Currently taking exams; unlikely to be active until mid June.
17/25 exams completed.

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dvgrn
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by dvgrn » November 13th, 2025, 9:09 am

PK22 wrote:
November 13th, 2025, 3:08 am
I don’t know how to fix the bounding box glitch/detect glitched guns, but I’ll have some free time at the weekend, so I might be able to find a fix if someone knows what causes the glitch as well as the characteristics of glitched guns.
Scorbie came up with some good ideas for a patch to the bounding-box glitch, but I'm not clear that they were ever successfully turned into a pull request. Something Unclear Happened, as described higher in this thread. There are some links there to candidate code.

There was also some discussion of the code changes that would be needed to prefer lower-population guns over higher-population ones, given the same bounding box area.

WhiteHawk
Posts: 1198
Joined: July 10th, 2024, 5:34 pm

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » November 14th, 2025, 2:57 am

apg wrote:
December 2nd, 2025, 7:41 pm
dvgrn wrote:
November 13th, 2025, 9:09 am
PK22 wrote:
November 13th, 2025, 3:08 am
I don’t know how to fix the bounding box glitch/detect glitched guns, but I’ll have some free time at the weekend, so I might be able to find a fix if someone knows what causes the glitch as well as the characteristics of glitched guns.
Scorbie came up with some good ideas for a patch to the bounding-box glitch, but I'm not clear that they were ever successfully turned into a pull request. Something Unclear Happened, as described higher in this thread. There are some links there to candidate code.

There was also some discussion of the code changes that would be needed to prefer lower-population guns over higher-population ones, given the same bounding box area.
But who is able to go in and implement the code fixes?
Last edited by WhiteHawk on December 2nd, 2025, 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

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dvgrn
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by dvgrn » November 14th, 2025, 9:08 am

WhiteHawk wrote:
November 14th, 2025, 2:57 am
But who is able to go in and implement the code fixes?
Anybody could contribute a pull request to the repo, theoretically (it's not clear what happened with Scorbie's attempt to do that). Then apgoucher will have to review and approve the PR.

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PK22
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Joined: January 25th, 2025, 11:38 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » November 14th, 2025, 1:17 pm

I've submitted two merge requests to Catagolue. The first one implements official support for the new GPU symmetries. The second one adds my changes to idgun.py and contrsynth.py (there was a minor syntax error in the latter, but my merge request features a fixed version). I haven't tested the new version, so in case something goes horribly wrong, I'm going to create a backup of every stored gun and guntrue and upload it here.

EDIT: Here's the aforementioned backup:
gunbackup.7z
(1.35 MiB) Downloaded 81 times
I note that file size is a good way to find over-densified guns - the largest one is guntrue_8423 at 6.92KB, and it hurts to look at:

Code: Select all

#CSYNTH guntrue_8423 costs 15892 cells.
#C period 8423 fullperiod 8423 bbox 137 by 116
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 137, y = 116, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A5.A5.2A13.2A2.A8.A10.2A11.A9.2A15.A7.A.2A7.2A12.2A$.2A4.A2.A3.
3A5.A13.A.4A7.A.A8.A2.A9.A.A7.A.A5.2A7.A.A6.2A2.A7.A11.A2.A$A2.A3.
2A4.A6.A.A4.2A7.A11.A2.A9.2A3.2A4.A.A9.A6.A7.A.A10.2A7.A.2A3.2A4.
2A$.A.A9.2A5.2A5.A6.2A.7A5.2A7.A8.A3.A.A6.A11.A7.A21.A.A3.A$2.A26.
A2.A2.A.A3.B2.A8.2A2.A.A6.A5.A5.3A7.A4.A22.2A12.A$28.2A2.2A2.BA.2A
2.2A9.A3.A8.3A7.A9.A.A4.A2.2A18.A11.2A3.2A$12.2A6.2A6.A7.2AB2AB6.
2A3.A5.3A7.A6.A.A8.A2.A2.2A3.A10.2A3.3A8.2A7.A.A$12.A7.A.A6.A6.5B
8.A3.2A6.A2.2A11.A10.2A7.A4.2A4.A2.A2.A9.A2.A7.2A$9.A3.A9.A6.A6.3B
7.A16.A.A29.A5.A.A4.2A7.2A5.A.A$.A5.3A4.A9.A6.A4.5B6.5A13.A4.2A23.
A8.A12.A.A6.A$A.A3.A8.A7.2A5.2A4.BA4B9.A3.2A3.A9.A8.A3.2A10.2A6.A
14.A$.A.A3.A6.2A13.A4.2BABA3B3.4AB5.2A2.A.A5.2A.A7.A.A.A2.A3.2A12.
2A9.2A6.A7.2A$2.A3.2A10.2A7.3A4.2BABA4B2.A2.AB10.A.A4.A.A9.2A.A2.A
4.A23.A.A4.A.A5.A.A2.2A$18.A.A5.A8.2BA4B4.4B11.A13.2A6.2A4.A3.2A2.
2A16.A.A2.A2.A4.A5.A.A$10.A10.A.A3.A6.15B3.2A12.A9.A11.A4.A3.A2.A
7.2A6.2A3.2A4.A7.A$9.A.A10.2A2.2A5.14B2A.A2.A11.A.A5.3A11.A6.A4.2A
7.A.A16.2A$.2A7.A.A19.11BA3B2A.2A10.A3.A.A4.A13.2A4.2A16.A.A$.A9.
2A18.11BABAB.B13.A.A3.A44.2A$2.A27.4B2.7BAB12.2A3.2A6.2A34.A$A.A
11.2A13.4B5.7B3.A.2A6.A11.A2.2A8.2A20.A.A4.2A7.2A6.2A$2A12.A13.4B
4.9B3.2A.A6.A.A10.2A.A7.A2.A7.A8.2A2.A.A4.A8.A6.A.A.A$9.2A5.A3.2A
5.4B5.2A4.4B8.A4.A.A4.2A15.A.A3.A3.3A6.A4.A4.A8.A10.2A$9.A5.2A2.A
2.A3.4B7.A5.4B6.A.A4.A.A4.A8.A7.A3.A.A5.A7.A7.A.A3.A.A$6.2A.A.3B5.
A.A3.4B5.3A7.4B5.A.A5.A.A3.A.2A4.A.A3.A7.A.A3.2A6.2A8.2A3.2A8.2A$
6.A2.A.2A2B2A3.A3.4B6.A10.4B5.A7.2A4.A.A3.A.A3.A.A7.2A35.A.A3.A$8.
2A.A.2B2AB5.4B19.4B25.A4.A2.A17.A22.A.A5.A.A$11.A.4B5.4B12.2A7.4B
30.2A17.A.A.2A18.2A7.A.A$11.2A.4B3.4B4.2A6.A2.A7.2B2A9.A7.2A14.2A
2.2A10.2A.A.A3.2A16.A5.2A$4.2A8.3BA6B4.A.A6.A2.A8.BABA7.A.A6.A.A.A
3.2A6.A3.A2.A2.2A8.A.A2.A.A.A12.A.A$3.A.A8.2BABA4B4.A.A8.2A6.A3.A
3B6.2A10.2A3.A.A6.A4.2A2.A10.A6.2A3.2A8.A.A$3.A8.B.3BA4B6.A16.A.A
3.4B24.A7.A8.A3.2A16.A.A8.2A4.A$2A.AB.B3.11B25.A.A3.4B23.2A5.2A6.A
.A2.A.A19.A.A10.A.A$.A.A.2AB.12B4.A9.2A5.2A3.A.A3.4B4.2A.2A.A7.A
18.2A3.A22.2A10.2A$.A.A.2A14B4.3A8.A5.A5.A.A3.4B3.A.2A.2A6.A.A5.2A
14.2A10.2A$2A.A2.5B2A8B7.A4.3A3.2A.A7.A4.4B16.A7.A4.2A17.A.A.A17.
2A$A2.4A3BA2BA5B.B2A4.A.A3.A5.A.A8.2A4.4B20.3A5.A2.A15.2A20.2A$.2A
2.BAB.2B2A6B.BA.A4.A.A26.4B19.A9.2A2.2A21.2A4.2A$3.2A6.7B5.A5.A.A
22.A3.4B4.2A19.A6.A4.2A15.A2.A3.A.A$3.A7.2B.4B5.2A5.A.A3.A16.A.A3.
4B3.A2.A16.A.A6.A2.B2AB6.A7.A2.A6.A$5.A9.4B12.A3.A.A5.2A9.A.A3.4B
4.2A4.A3.A3.2A2.A.A3.3A3.3B6.A.A7.2A8.A$4.2A10.4B15.2A6.A.A9.2A4.
4B7.3A2.A.A2.A2.2A.2A2.A6.B.B4.A2.A16.2A5.2A$17.4B24.A4.2A10.4B5.A
5.A.A3.A.A2.B8.5B5.2A24.A$9.2A7.4B6.2A11.4A.2A2.A2.A9.7B.2A5.A.4A
2.AB2A6.6B17.2A9.2A.A$9.A9.4B5.A7.2A3.A2.A.A.A.A.2A10.9B7.A3.A.A.
2A4.8B5.2A10.A.A8.A.A$.2A7.A9.4B5.3A4.A.A4.BABABA.A5.A8.6B8.A2.BA.
A2.13B6.A13.A4.A$.A.A2.A4.A.A.A5.4B6.A5.A.A4.B2ABA.A4.A.A8.5B7.A.
2BA.A5.13B5.A3.2A5.A.2A2.A.A$2.A3.3A3.2A.3A4.4B12.2A5.2B.BA6.A4.2A
2.7B6.2A.2BA5.15B3.2A2.A.A4.A.A4.2A5.2A.A$9.A8.A4.4B17.3B14.A4.6B
10.3B4.15B7.2A4.A2.A11.A.2A$8.2A7.2A5.4B7.2A6.4B15.A3.7B10.2B.B.
17B12.A.A5.2A$25.4B7.A6.B2A3B6.2A4.2A3.6B4.29B6.2A5.A3.A3.A$26.4B
6.A.AB3.B2A3B7.A9.7B2.16B2A13B6.A8.A.A2.A.2A5.A$3.A14.A8.4B6.2AB.
10B5.A.A7.7B2.16B2A14B4.A6.A3.A4.A.A4.A.A$3.3A11.A.A8.4B7.13B5.2A
6.9B.27B3.B2A3.2A4.A.A15.A$6.A4.2A4.A.A4.2A3.4B6.14B12.36B4.A2.A9.
A7.A5.3A$5.2A5.A5.A6.A4.4B5.15B6.B4.20B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A5.3A7.A.A
4.A$11.A12.A6.4B6.8B2.4B4.2AB.19B14.6B7.A5.A9.A2.A$11.2A11.2A6.4B
5.6B5.4B3.2A19B14.9B6.2A15.A.A$18.2A13.4B3.9B4.4B3.B.17B8.2A5.2A4.
4B18.2A3.A6.2A$2.2A13.A.A9.2A3.4B.4B4.2A5.4B5.17B7.A.A5.A5.4B17.A
12.A$.A.A10.A.A8.A3.A.A3.7B5.A3.A3.4B4.17B8.A3.3A7.4B5.A12.A8.A$2.
A3.2A6.2A8.A.A4.A4.5B7.4A4.4B3.15B.B2A10.A10.4B3.A.A6.2A2.2A3.2A3.
2A$5.A.A15.A2.A4.2A3.5B16.4B2.12B4.BA.A14.2A.A3.4B3.A4.2A2.A7.A.A$
5.A4.2A12.2A9.7B4.4A8.15B9.A13.A2.2A4.4B7.A.2A9.A$2A4.A3.A23.4B.4B
3.A2.3A7.15B8.2A3.A4.A3.2A8.4B$A4.2A4.A6.2A13.4B3.4B8.A7.14B12.A.A
2.A.A8.2A3.4B$.A7.A.A6.A.A3.A7.4B5.4B6.A.A7.12B3.2A9.A.A2.A.A7.A.A
3.4B19.2A$2A7.2A8.2A2.A.A5.4B7.4B5.A.AB7.10B3.A2.A9.A4.A9.A.A3.4B
6.2A3.2A5.A.A.A$24.A.A3.4B9.4B5.A3B7.9B4.A2.A4.2A18.A5.4B4.A.A4.A
8.2A$13.2A10.A3.4B11.4B6.4B5.9B5.2A5.A.A12.2A10.4B4.A4.A$12.A.A4.
2A7.4B3.A9.4B5.6B5.6B14.A8.A5.A11.4B7.A10.2A$.A5.A3.A.A5.A7.4B3.A.
A4.A4.4B4.7B.2B2.5B22.A.A3.A13.4B6.2A3.2A3.A2.A$A.A3.A.A3.A8.A4.4B
5.2A3.A.A4.4B2.8B.9B6.2A15.A.A.A8.A6.4B10.A3.A2.A$.A.A3.2A6.A4.2A
3.4B12.A6.24B4.A2.A15.2A.2A6.A.A6.4B10.A3.2A$2.A.A10.3A6.4B21.24B
4.2A8.2A16.A.A.A6.4B8.2A$3.A.A12.A4.4B22.19B2.4B12.A.A16.A2.A.A6.
4B$4.A.A10.2A3.4B8.2A4.2A7.18B4.4B6.A3.A.A8.2A6.2A3.A8.4B10.2A$6.A
10.8B8.A.A3.A2.A6.16B7.4B4.A.A3.A3.2A4.2A2.2A17.4B9.A$6.2A5.2A4.5B
5.2A2.A5.A.A5.2AB.13B9.4B4.A7.A.A8.A.A17.4B10.A$12.A.BAB.5B6.A.A.
2A5.A5.A.AB2.11B11.4B4.3A3.A12.A.A10.2A5.4B5.5A$2A10.A.2AB2.5B6.2A
.A2.A9.A5.10B13.4B5.A2.A14.A6.2A4.A5.4B4.A$A10.2A.B.B3.5B3.3B.B2.
2A4.A3.2A5.2B2A6B8.2A4.4B7.2A5.A.A13.A4.A.AB.7B2.B3A$.A3.2A4.A2.2A
2B2.5B3.4B8.A.A8.3B2A6B8.2A5.4B7.A4.A.2A4.A7.A6.2AB.7B3.2B.A$2A2.A
2.A4.2A2.AB.13B.B5.A2.A5.A3.10B16.4B5.A5.A6.A.A3.A.A9.12B4A$5.2A7.
2ABA13B.B2A5.2A4.3A3.8B.B2A.A13.4B4.2A3.2A7.A.A2.2A10.7B2A3BAB2.2A
$12.2A2.A5BA10B2A10.A5.7B3.B2AB3A12.4B19.A14.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$2.2A7.A
2.A2.4BABA7B.2B12.A4.6B6.B4.A7.A4.4B11.2A5.2A13.10B3.B.A.2A$2.A.A
7.2A3.4BABA7B7.2A5.2A5.6B4.2A.3A8.3A3.4B10.A13.2A5.8B8.A$4.A13.4BA
7B6.A2.A12.5B4.A2.2A13.A3.4B7.A.A3.A9.A.A3.9B7.2A$4.2A14.9B3.2A2.
2A13.8B.A.A15.A.A3.4B6.2A3.A.A2.A.2A3.A3.4B2.3B$17.B.10B.B2.A8.A8.
8BA.A.2A.A12.A5.4B9.A2.A2.2A.A6.4B3.5B10.A$.A6.A7.2A12B3A9.3A6.6B.
2BAB.A.2A4.A.A.2A9.4B8.A.A12.4B7.2A8.3A$.3A3.A.A6.2AB.8B.BA6.2A6.A
4.7B2.2B2.A6.A.2A.A.A9.4B8.A12.4B8.A8.A$4.A3.A.A6.B3.6B4.2A3.A2.A
4.2A4.7B3.B.2A6.A5.A11.4B19.4B10.3A4.A.A$3.2A5.A11.4B6.A4.A.A4.4B.
8B2.A.A2.2A3.2A18.4B10.A6.4B13.A5.A$10.2A11.4B4.A6.A7.11B2.2A2.A2.
A12.2A3.A5.4B7.3A5.4B6.2A$19.2A3.2B2A3.2A12.12B7.2A13.A3.A.A5.4B5.
A7.4B8.A9.2A$18.A2.A3.BABA16.12B12.2A5.2A.A4.A7.4B4.2A5.4B8.A10.A.
A$3.A15.2A5.A3B5.2A8.11B13.A.A.A2.A.A6.3A5.9B4.4B6.A.A14.A$2.A.A
22.4B4.2A7.9B12.2A5.2A13.A6.6B5.4B7.2A16.A$.A.A4.A4.2A13.4B9.2B.
10B11.A17.A10.8B2.4B16.A8.2A$.2A4.A.A3.A.A7.2A4.4B7.16B.B4.BA.A3.
2A6.2A3.A.A7.15B5.2A8.3A5.A$8.A.A3.A.A5.A.A5.4B3.23B2.B2A5.A6.A3.A
.A.A6.14B3.2A2.A3.A3.A7.A.A$9.A.A3.A6.2A7.32B6.A5.A.A4.A2.A6.13B4.
A.2A3.A.A.A.A6.A2.A$10.A.A19.32B5.A.A3.2A6.2A5.2AB.10B13.A3.A8.A.A
2.2A$4.2A5.A13.2A6.31B6.2A17.A.AB3.B2A3B29.A3.A$4.A11.2A3.A4.A7.
30B25.A6.B2A3B5.2A5.2A20.A$6.A9.A3.A.A2.A10.28B24.2A6.4B7.A.A4.A.A
16.3A$2.A2.2A7.A.A2.A.A3.2A10.17B5.B.4B4.2A6.2A18.3B8.A.A4.2A8.A7.
A$.A.A10.2A3.2A16.14B11.4B4.A5.A2.A11.A6.2B.BA6.A13.3A$A.A26.A7.
14B12.4B3.A.2A3.2A3.2A5.3A5.B2ABA.A18.A$.A26.A.A10.3B4.2B14.4B3.A.
A7.A.A4.A7.BABABA.A19.A$13.A.2A3.2A.A5.A.A10.B6.2B5.A8.4B12.A7.A4.
A2.A.A.A.A.2A10.2A3.2A$.A11.2A.A2.A.A.3A4.A.A5.2A8.B2AB3.A.A8.4B4.
A.2A2.2A6.2A4.4A.2A2.A2.A2.2A5.A.A9.2A$A.A3.2A11.A6.A4.A.A3.A2.A8.
2A5.A5.2A3.3BA3.2A.A6.2A.A10.A4.2A4.2A5.2A10.A2.2A$A2.A2.A.A11.A4.
2A5.A.A3.A.A16.3A.A.A4.3BA11.A2.2A8.A.A30.2A.A$.2A4.2A10.2A12.A5.A
19.2A8.3AB10.2A11.2A!
User:PK22
Currently taking exams; unlikely to be active until mid June.
17/25 exams completed.

WhiteHawk
Posts: 1198
Joined: July 10th, 2024, 5:34 pm

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » November 15th, 2025, 10:26 pm

ElijahKen wrote:
November 15th, 2025, 8:10 pm
Once Catagolue starts accepting population reductions and we start posting them in this thread, I think it might be a good idea to place them all in one code block (per post) for neatness.
Might it be a better idea to have a separate thread concerning potential population reductions to guns to avoid excessive cluttering in the Executions thread? (They could go here too, but that may clutter this thread)

EDIT: Just some examples of the many reductions that could be made (RED = Almost always suboptimal, YELLOW = contextually suboptiomal, WHITE = optimal population, suboptimal form, GREEN = optimal form)

31.4 in the snark/CP semi-snark

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 37, rule = LifeHistory
3D3.D2.D13.3D5.D$3.D2.D2.D16.D3.2D$3.D2.D2.D16.D4.D$3D3.4D13.3D5.D$3.
D5.D16.D4.D$3.D5.D16.D4.D$3D6.D13.3D4.3D5$43.D$43.D6.2D$2E3.2E18.2A16.
D7.D$2E2.E.3E16.A.A15.D5.D.D.2D10.2D$4.E4.E17.A4.2A9.D5.2D2.D10.D.D$4E
.2E2.E13.4A.2A2.A2.A7.D9.D4.2D4.D$E2.E.E.E.2E12.A2.A.A.A.A.2A7.D5.4D.
2D2.D2.D.2D$3.E.E.E.E16.A.A.A.A10.D5.D2.D.D.D.D.2D.D$4.2E.E.E17.2A.A.
A10.D8.D.D.D.D4.D$8.E22.A11.D9.2D.D.D4.2D$43.D13.D$43.D$43.D$43.D$43.
D6.2A$25.2C16.D7.A$25.C.C5.2C8.D5.A.A.2A10.2A$27.C4.C.C8.D5.2A2.A5.2A
3.A.A$23.4C.2C2.C10.D9.A4.A.A3.A$23.C2.C.C.C.2C9.D5.4A.2A2.A4.2A$26.C
.C.C.C10.D5.A2.A.A.A.2A$27.2C.C.C10.D8.A.A.A.A$31.C11.D9.2A.A.A$43.D13.
A$43.D$43.D!
Chucklebaits

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
.3D4.3D10.3D4.3D$D3.D2.D3.D8.D3.D2.D3.D$3.D3.D3.D11.D3.D3.D$2.D5.4D10.
D5.3D$.D9.D9.D5.D3.D$D6.D3.D8.D6.D3.D$5D3.3D9.5D3.3D3$21.2D$21.2D$3.D
.2D20.2D$.3D.D.D.2D.D8.4D2.D.D$D4.D.D.D.2D7.D4.D.D.D$D.D.D.D.D11.D.D.
D.D.D$.2D.D.D14.2D.D.D$5.D.D17.D.D$6.D19.D5$.3D3.5D9.3D4.3D$D3.D2.D12.
D3.D2.D3.D$3.D3.D15.D7.D$2.D5.3D11.D5.3D$.D9.D9.D9.D$D6.D3.D8.D6.D3.D
$5D3.3D9.5D3.3D4$24.A$3.2E3.E14.A.A$.3E.E.E.E11.3A.A$E4.E.E.E10.A4.A.
2A$E.E.E.E.E11.A.A.A.A.A$.2E.E.E14.2A.A.A$5.E.E17.A.A$6.E19.A!
Two-eater weld used in the stable/odd-period x7 multiplier

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
6.2E14.2C$6.E15.C$2.2E3.3E8.2C3.3C$2.E.E5.E7.C.C4.C$E.E.6E6.C.C.5C$2E
14.2C$6.2E14.C$6.2E13.C.C$22.C!
Drifty Eater 3

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
.3D5.D8.3D4.3D7.3D4.3D$D3.D3.2D7.D3.D2.D3.D5.D3.D2.D3.D$4.D2.D.D11.D2.
D3.D8.D3.D3.D$.3D5.D8.3D3.D.D.D7.D5.4D$4.D4.D11.D2.D3.D6.D9.D$D3.D4.D
7.D3.D2.D3.D5.D6.D3.D$.3D3.5D6.3D4.3D6.5D3.3D4$3.D$2.D.D.2D15.2E11.2A
$.D2.D.D.D9.2E2.E.E11.A.A2.2A$D3.D3.D9.E3.E4.E10.A3.A$.3D.3D11.3E.5E6.
4A.3A$3.D.D15.E.E10.A2.A.A$3.D.D.3D11.E.E.3E9.A.A.3A$4.2D.D2.D11.2E.E
2.E9.2A.A2.A$9.2D16.2E14.2A!
Eater welded to snake bridge eater

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 8, rule = LifeHistory
7.2D15.2A$D.2D2.D.D10.2A2.A.A$2D.D2.D13.A2.A$3.D.2D13.A.2A$2D.D13.2A.
A$D.D.2D.D9.A.A.2A.A$2.D.D.2D11.A.A.2A$2.2D15.2A!
Beehive with tail

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
13.2D$3.E8.D2.D$2.E.E8.3D8.2A$2.E.E20.A$.2E.2E9.3D7.A.2A$E2.E2.E8.D2.
D7.A2.A$2E2.2E10.2D9.2A!
Standard Syringe catalyst

Code: Select all

x = 102, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
26.2E3.E24.2E3.E$26.E3.E.E23.E3.E.E20.2C3.C$27.E3.E.E23.E3.E.E19.C3.C
.C$28.E3.E.E.2E20.E3.E.E.2E16.C3.C.C$20.2F4.E.4E2.E.2E12.2D4.E.4E2.E.
2E17.C3.C.C.2C$20.F5.2E3.E.E16.D5.2E3.E.E19.C.4C2.C.2C$21.3F5.E.E.2E.
2E13.3D5.E.E.2E.2E14.C.C3.C.C10.D$23.F2.3E.E3.E.E16.D2.3E.E3.E.E15.C2.
C4.2C.2C5.2D$26.E2.E4.E.E19.E2.E4.E.E16.2C3.C2.C.C2.C2.3D$27.2E6.E21.
2E6.E16.6B2C5B2CB4D$82.19D3$2.2D3.D18.2D3.D$2.D3.D.D17.D2A.D.A23.2A3.
A21.2D3.D$3.D3.D.D17.A3.A.A22.A3.A.A20.D2A.D.A$4.D3.D.D.2D14.A3.A.A.2A
19.A3.A.A20.A3.A.A$2.D.4D2.D.2D6.2F7.A4.A.2A20.A3.A.A.2A17.A3.A.A.2A$
.D.D3.D.D10.F6.A.5A9.D6.2D4.A.4A2.A.2A18.A4.A.2A$.D2.D2.D.2D.2D7.3F2.
A.A4.A.2A.A.2A2D6.D4.A.A3.A.A10.F9.A.5A9.D$2D3.D.D2.D.D2.D7.F3.A2.2A.
A2.A.2A.A2D7.3D.A.A2.A2.2A.2A5.2F8.A.A4.A.2A.A.2A2D$4.2D.2D5.2D9.D2.2A
.A.2A5.4D9.D2.A3.2A2.A.A5.3F9.A2.2A.A2.A.2A.A2D$25.12D2.4D7.14BABAB3.
4F7.D2.2A.A.2A5.4D$50.15BA2B2.4F8.12D2.4D!
P5 bumpers (same goes for p5 gallus for the top left and 2 right sparkers)

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
32D$D30.D$D30.D$D30.D31.E$D8.2E16.E3.D8.E20.3E$D7.E2.E13.3E3.D7.E.E18.
E$D2.E2.E2.E.E12.E6.D8.E19.2E$D2.5E.E.2E11.2E5.D9.2E.E4.E$D8.2E3.E16.
D11.E.E2.E.E5.E$D4.3E2.2E8.E10.D9.2E3.E.E2.E3.E.E$D3.E.E2.E.E3.E3.E.E
9.D11.E.2E.E5.E2.E$D3.E.2E2.2E6.E2.E9.D11.E.E.E2.E4.2E$D4.E3.2E3.E4.2E
10.D9.E.E.E.2E$D5.2E.E.2E18.D9.2E.E.E$D6.E.E.E19.D12.E.E$D5.E2.E.E11.
3D.D3.D12.2E11.3D.3D$D5.2E2.E12.D3.D3.D25.D5.D$D22.3D.D3.D25.3D.3D$D22.
D.D.D3.D27.D.D$D22.3D.D3.D25.3D.3D$D30.D$32D5$48.2A13.A$27.E19.A.A11.
3A$25.3E13.2A3.A13.A$10.2E12.E16.A.A.A.2A11.2A$8.3E.E11.2E17.A.A.A2.A
$7.E4.E30.A.2A.A7.A$8.3E.2E6.E20.2A3.A.A2.A3.A.A$10.2E3.E3.E.E21.A.A2.
A.A3.A2.A$12.E5.E2.E19.2A.A4.A5.2A$12.E6.2E19.A$9.3E3.E23.A.A$7.2E.E.
2E26.A$6.E3.E.E$5.E2.E.E.E$5.3E3.E12.3D.3D26.3D.D$8.3E13.D3.D28.D3.D$
7.E16.3D.3D26.3D.D$7.2E17.D.D.D28.D.D$24.3D.3D26.3D.D!
Lastly, p3 eaters

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
3.3D3.4D12.3D3.4D11.3D3.D2.D3.F6.3D3.3D$6.D5.D15.D2.D17.D2.D2.D3.F9.D
5.D$6.D5.D15.D2.D17.D2.D2.D3.F9.D5.D$3.3D5.D13.3D3.3D12.3D3.4D3.F6.3D
3.3D$6.D4.D16.D5.D14.D5.D3.F9.D5.D$6.D3.D17.D5.D14.D5.D3.F9.D5.D$3.3D
4.D14.3D3.3D12.3D6.D3.F6.3D3.3D$59.F$59.F$59.F$4.D54.F$4.D2.E5.2E9.2E
.2E5.2E9.D.2E5.2E3.F4.D.2C5.2C9.4F2.4F$3.2E.E.E.EBEB.E9.E.E.E.E.E2.E8.
D.E.E.EBEB.E2.F4.D.C.C.CBCB.C11.F2.F2.F$3.2E.E.EBE2B.2E8.ED.E.E.E3.2E
8.D3.EBE2B.2E2.F4.D3.CBC2B.2C11.F2.F2.F$4.D.E.E2.B11.E.2E2.E15.D3.E2.
B6.F4.D3.C2.B12.4F2.4F$.6E.4E12.ED2.2E.E.E11.D4.3E6.F4.D4.3C15.F5.F$E
2.BD2.E.2B3.2F9.D4.E.E3.F8.D3.3B3.2F2.F4.D6.B3.F11.F5.F$2E2.D3E5.F11.
D2.E6.F9.D2.2E4.F4.F4.D2.4C4.F8.4F2.3F$4.DEB5.F10.F.D.B6.F10.D2.2B3.F
5.F4.D.C2.2B4.F$9D3F4D7.DF4D2E2DF3D7.2E2DE3DF4D2.F4.DCDC3DC3DF$4F4.F16.
F3.E3.F10.EDEBEB2.F6.F4.DC.C2.C.C2.F$4.4F17.F3.E3.F11.E3.E2.F6.F4.D.C
3.C.C2.F$25.F3.E3.F11.D3E3.F6.F4.D6.C3.F$44.EDE4.F7.F$44.2E13.F$59.F$
59.F$2.4F2.4F12.F3.F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F$5.F2.F2.F12.F3.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F24.
4F2.F3.F$5.F2.F2.F12.F3.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F4.D2.2A5.2A11.F2.F3.F$2.4F2.
4F12.5F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F4.D.A2.A.ABAB.A10.F2.F3.F$5.F5.F16.F2.F16.F2.F2.
F4.F4.D.2A.ABA2B.2A7.4F2.5F$5.F5.F16.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F4.D2.A.A2.B14.F
6.F$2.4F2.3F17.F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F4.D.BA.4A14.F6.F$59.F4.D3AB.2B3.2F7.4F
6.F$59.F4.DB2AB5.F$59.F3.BDA.A5.F$59.F2.3ADA3D4F3D$59.F3.BDB3.F!
Last edited by WhiteHawk on February 16th, 2026, 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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PK22
Posts: 564
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » January 28th, 2026, 2:13 pm

My merge request fixing overdensification has been implemented! Unfortunately, there was a problem with the URL used to request old guns, so the update process is currently broken.

I've submitted a merge request to fix this issue, but once it's implemented, overdensification should be mostly solved.

It's probably a good idea for someone to compile known population reductions into one place so that submission is easier once lower-population guns are finally accepted, though full decontamination of the overdensification might take a while.
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17/25 exams completed.

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » January 28th, 2026, 4:14 pm

PK22 wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 2:13 pm
My merge request fixing overdensification has been implemented! Unfortunately, there was a problem with the URL used to request old guns, so the update process is currently broken.

I've submitted a merge request to fix this issue, but once it's implemented, overdensification should be mostly solved.

It's probably a good idea for someone to compile known population reductions into one place so that submission is easier once lower-population guns are finally accepted, though full decontamination of the overdensification might take a while.
And just to be clear, this allows for population reductions to be admitted as long as the bounding box is the same or lower than before, correct?
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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PK22
Posts: 564
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » January 28th, 2026, 4:30 pm

WhiteHawk wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:14 pm
And just to be clear, this allows for population reductions to be admitted as long as the bounding box is the same or lower than before, correct?
Correct. The way it works is, if the bounding boxes are the same, it compares the populations of the new and old guns (only including state-1 LifeHistory cells), and if the new gun has a lower population, it will replace the old one. And if the bounding box is smaller, it will replace the old gun anyway, just like before.
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Currently taking exams; unlikely to be active until mid June.
17/25 exams completed.

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » January 28th, 2026, 4:36 pm

PK22 wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:30 pm
WhiteHawk wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:14 pm
And just to be clear, this allows for population reductions to be admitted as long as the bounding box is the same or lower than before, correct?
Correct. The way it works is, if the bounding boxes are the same, it compares the populations of the new and old guns (only including state-1 LifeHistory cells), and if the new gun has a lower population, it will replace the old one. And if the bounding box is smaller, it will replace the old gun anyway, just like before.
Great! Will there still need to be a future merge for guns which have incorrect bounding boxes anyway?
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » January 28th, 2026, 4:52 pm

WhiteHawk wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:36 pm
Great! Will there still need to be a future merge for guns which have incorrect bounding boxes anyway?
At some point, yes, but I don't know of any methods to determine if the bbox has been incorrectly calculated. However, once such a method is implemented, it has to be applied to all new guns, rather than just ones where the new bbox matches the old one, so it will add to processing time.

Ideally, it should be implemented after the collection has been purged of over-densification, since that's going to require the processing of hundreds of faulty guns.
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17/25 exams completed.

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » February 1st, 2026, 4:39 pm

PK22 wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 2:13 pm
My merge request fixing overdensification has been implemented! Unfortunately, there was a problem with the URL used to request old guns, so the update process is currently broken.

I've submitted a merge request to fix this issue, but once it's implemented, overdensification should be mostly solved.

It's probably a good idea for someone to compile known population reductions into one place so that submission is easier once lower-population guns are finally accepted, though full decontamination of the overdensification might take a while.
The submission issue is fixed!
PK22 wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:52 pm
WhiteHawk wrote:
January 28th, 2026, 4:36 pm
Great! Will there still need to be a future merge for guns which have incorrect bounding boxes anyway?
At some point, yes, but I don't know of any methods to determine if the bbox has been incorrectly calculated. However, once such a method is implemented, it has to be applied to all new guns, rather than just ones where the new bbox matches the old one, so it will add to processing time.

Ideally, it should be implemented after the collection has been purged of over-densification, since that's going to require the processing of hundreds of faulty guns.
Would the approach to have both the BB of the current submission and new submission be (re)assesed for each gun when comparing entries work?
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by PK22 » February 1st, 2026, 4:48 pm

WhiteHawk wrote:
February 1st, 2026, 4:39 pm
Would the approach to have both the BB of the current submission and new submission be (re)assesed for each gun when comparing entries work?
Could do, but since no new guns with faulty bounding boxes can be submitted, it might be easier to have a temporary patch that only checks it for the confirmed faulty guns, then remove that once they're fixed to save resources. Again, the issue is performing a download for every new submitted gun, rather than just the ones where the new bbox = old bbox.
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » February 1st, 2026, 5:05 pm

PK22 wrote:
February 1st, 2026, 4:48 pm
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 1st, 2026, 4:39 pm
Would the approach to have both the BB of the current submission and new submission be (re)assesed for each gun when comparing entries work?
Could do, but since no new guns with faulty bounding boxes can be submitted, it might be easier to have a temporary patch that only checks it for the confirmed faulty guns, then remove that once they're fixed to save resources. Again, the issue is performing a download for every new submitted gun, rather than just the ones where the new bbox = old bbox.
True. I do think that a temporary patch might be better for data purposes. Likewise it might be important to temporary disable gun submissions until it's over as well.

EDIT: Is something stuck currently. Guns I updated last night haven't been updated.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

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WhiteHawk
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » February 16th, 2026, 5:16 pm

WhiteHawk wrote:
November 15th, 2025, 10:26 pm
ElijahKen wrote:
November 15th, 2025, 8:10 pm
Once Catagolue starts accepting population reductions and we start posting them in this thread, I think it might be a good idea to place them all in one code block (per post) for neatness.
Might it be a better idea to have a separate thread concerning potential population reductions to guns to avoid excessive cluttering in the Executions thread? (They could go here too, but that may clutter this thread)

EDIT: Just some examples of the many reductions that could be made (RED = Almost always suboptimal, YELLOW = contextually suboptiomal, WHITE = optimal population, suboptimal form, GREEN = optimal form)

31.4 in the snark/CP semi-snark

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 37, rule = LifeHistory
3D3.D2.D13.3D5.D$3.D2.D2.D16.D3.2D$3.D2.D2.D16.D4.D$3D3.4D13.3D5.D$3.
D5.D16.D4.D$3.D5.D16.D4.D$3D6.D13.3D4.3D5$43.D$43.D6.2D$2E3.2E18.2A16.
D7.D$2E2.E.3E16.A.A15.D5.D.D.2D10.2D$4.E4.E17.A4.2A9.D5.2D2.D10.D.D$4E
.2E2.E13.4A.2A2.A2.A7.D9.D4.2D4.D$E2.E.E.E.2E12.A2.A.A.A.A.2A7.D5.4D.
2D2.D2.D.2D$3.E.E.E.E16.A.A.A.A10.D5.D2.D.D.D.D.2D.D$4.2E.E.E17.2A.A.
A10.D8.D.D.D.D4.D$8.E22.A11.D9.2D.D.D4.2D$43.D13.D$43.D$43.D$43.D$43.
D6.2A$25.2C16.D7.A$25.C.C5.2C8.D5.A.A.2A10.2A$27.C4.C.C8.D5.2A2.A5.2A
3.A.A$23.4C.2C2.C10.D9.A4.A.A3.A$23.C2.C.C.C.2C9.D5.4A.2A2.A4.2A$26.C
.C.C.C10.D5.A2.A.A.A.2A$27.2C.C.C10.D8.A.A.A.A$31.C11.D9.2A.A.A$43.D13.
A$43.D$43.D!
Chucklebaits

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
.3D4.3D10.3D4.3D$D3.D2.D3.D8.D3.D2.D3.D$3.D3.D3.D11.D3.D3.D$2.D5.4D10.
D5.3D$.D9.D9.D5.D3.D$D6.D3.D8.D6.D3.D$5D3.3D9.5D3.3D3$21.2D$21.2D$3.D
.2D20.2D$.3D.D.D.2D.D8.4D2.D.D$D4.D.D.D.2D7.D4.D.D.D$D.D.D.D.D11.D.D.
D.D.D$.2D.D.D14.2D.D.D$5.D.D17.D.D$6.D19.D5$.3D3.5D9.3D4.3D$D3.D2.D12.
D3.D2.D3.D$3.D3.D15.D7.D$2.D5.3D11.D5.3D$.D9.D9.D9.D$D6.D3.D8.D6.D3.D
$5D3.3D9.5D3.3D4$24.A$3.2E3.E14.A.A$.3E.E.E.E11.3A.A$E4.E.E.E10.A4.A.
2A$E.E.E.E.E11.A.A.A.A.A$.2E.E.E14.2A.A.A$5.E.E17.A.A$6.E19.A!
Two-eater weld used in the stable/odd-period x7 multiplier

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
6.2E14.2C$6.E15.C$2.2E3.3E8.2C3.3C$2.E.E5.E7.C.C4.C$E.E.6E6.C.C.5C$2E
14.2C$6.2E14.C$6.2E13.C.C$22.C!
Drifty Eater 3

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
.3D5.D8.3D4.3D7.3D4.3D$D3.D3.2D7.D3.D2.D3.D5.D3.D2.D3.D$4.D2.D.D11.D2.
D3.D8.D3.D3.D$.3D5.D8.3D3.D.D.D7.D5.4D$4.D4.D11.D2.D3.D6.D9.D$D3.D4.D
7.D3.D2.D3.D5.D6.D3.D$.3D3.5D6.3D4.3D6.5D3.3D4$3.D$2.D.D.2D15.2E11.2A
$.D2.D.D.D9.2E2.E.E11.A.A2.2A$D3.D3.D9.E3.E4.E10.A3.A$.3D.3D11.3E.5E6.
4A.3A$3.D.D15.E.E10.A2.A.A$3.D.D.3D11.E.E.3E9.A.A.3A$4.2D.D2.D11.2E.E
2.E9.2A.A2.A$9.2D16.2E14.2A!
Eater welded to snake bridge eater

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 8, rule = LifeHistory
7.2D15.2A$D.2D2.D.D10.2A2.A.A$2D.D2.D13.A2.A$3.D.2D13.A.2A$2D.D13.2A.
A$D.D.2D.D9.A.A.2A.A$2.D.D.2D11.A.A.2A$2.2D15.2A!
Beehive with tail

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
13.2D$3.E8.D2.D$2.E.E8.3D8.2A$2.E.E20.A$.2E.2E9.3D7.A.2A$E2.E2.E8.D2.
D7.A2.A$2E2.2E10.2D9.2A!
Standard Syringe catalyst P5 bumpers (same goes for p5 gallus for the top left and 2 right sparkers)

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
32D$D30.D$D30.D$D30.D31.E$D8.2E16.E3.D8.E20.3E$D7.E2.E13.3E3.D7.E.E18.
E$D2.E2.E2.E.E12.E6.D8.E19.2E$D2.5E.E.2E11.2E5.D9.2E.E4.E$D8.2E3.E16.
D11.E.E2.E.E5.E$D4.3E2.2E8.E10.D9.2E3.E.E2.E3.E.E$D3.E.E2.E.E3.E3.E.E
9.D11.E.2E.E5.E2.E$D3.E.2E2.2E6.E2.E9.D11.E.E.E2.E4.2E$D4.E3.2E3.E4.2E
10.D9.E.E.E.2E$D5.2E.E.2E18.D9.2E.E.E$D6.E.E.E19.D12.E.E$D5.E2.E.E11.
3D.D3.D12.2E11.3D.3D$D5.2E2.E12.D3.D3.D25.D5.D$D22.3D.D3.D25.3D.3D$D22.
D.D.D3.D27.D.D$D22.3D.D3.D25.3D.3D$D30.D$32D5$48.2A13.A$27.E19.A.A11.
3A$25.3E13.2A3.A13.A$10.2E12.E16.A.A.A.2A11.2A$8.3E.E11.2E17.A.A.A2.A
$7.E4.E30.A.2A.A7.A$8.3E.2E6.E20.2A3.A.A2.A3.A.A$10.2E3.E3.E.E21.A.A2.
A.A3.A2.A$12.E5.E2.E19.2A.A4.A5.2A$12.E6.2E19.A$9.3E3.E23.A.A$7.2E.E.
2E26.A$6.E3.E.E$5.E2.E.E.E$5.3E3.E12.3D.3D26.3D.D$8.3E13.D3.D28.D3.D$
7.E16.3D.3D26.3D.D$7.2E17.D.D.D28.D.D$24.3D.3D26.3D.D!
Lastly, p3 eaters

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
3.3D3.4D12.3D3.4D11.3D3.D2.D3.F6.3D3.3D$6.D5.D15.D2.D17.D2.D2.D3.F9.D
5.D$6.D5.D15.D2.D17.D2.D2.D3.F9.D5.D$3.3D5.D13.3D3.3D12.3D3.4D3.F6.3D
3.3D$6.D4.D16.D5.D14.D5.D3.F9.D5.D$6.D3.D17.D5.D14.D5.D3.F9.D5.D$3.3D
4.D14.3D3.3D12.3D6.D3.F6.3D3.3D$59.F$59.F$59.F$4.D54.F$4.D2.E5.2E9.2E
.2E5.2E9.D.2E5.2E3.F4.D.2C5.2C9.4F2.4F$3.2E.E.E.EBEB.E9.E.E.E.E.E2.E8.
D.E.E.EBEB.E2.F4.D.C.C.CBCB.C11.F2.F2.F$3.2E.E.EBE2B.2E8.ED.E.E.E3.2E
8.D3.EBE2B.2E2.F4.D3.CBC2B.2C11.F2.F2.F$4.D.E.E2.B11.E.2E2.E15.D3.E2.
B6.F4.D3.C2.B12.4F2.4F$.6E.4E12.ED2.2E.E.E11.D4.3E6.F4.D4.3C15.F5.F$E
2.BD2.E.2B3.2F9.D4.E.E3.F8.D3.3B3.2F2.F4.D6.B3.F11.F5.F$2E2.D3E5.F11.
D2.E6.F9.D2.2E4.F4.F4.D2.4C4.F8.4F2.3F$4.DEB5.F10.F.D.B6.F10.D2.2B3.F
5.F4.D.C2.2B4.F$9D3F4D7.DF4D2E2DF3D7.2E2DE3DF4D2.F4.DCDC3DC3DF$4F4.F16.
F3.E3.F10.EDEBEB2.F6.F4.DC.C2.C.C2.F$4.4F17.F3.E3.F11.E3.E2.F6.F4.D.C
3.C.C2.F$25.F3.E3.F11.D3E3.F6.F4.D6.C3.F$44.EDE4.F7.F$44.2E13.F$59.F$
59.F$2.4F2.4F12.F3.F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F$5.F2.F2.F12.F3.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F24.
4F2.F3.F$5.F2.F2.F12.F3.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F4.D2.2A5.2A11.F2.F3.F$2.4F2.
4F12.5F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F4.D.A2.A.ABAB.A10.F2.F3.F$5.F5.F16.F2.F16.F2.F2.
F4.F4.D.2A.ABA2B.2A7.4F2.5F$5.F5.F16.F2.F16.F2.F2.F4.F4.D2.A.A2.B14.F
6.F$2.4F2.3F17.F2.F13.4F2.4F4.F4.D.BA.4A14.F6.F$59.F4.D3AB.2B3.2F7.4F
6.F$59.F4.DB2AB5.F$59.F3.BDA.A5.F$59.F2.3ADA3D4F3D$59.F3.BDB3.F!
PK22 wrote:
February 16th, 2026, 5:02 pm
(Moving discussion here)
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 16th, 2026, 4:50 pm
It missed a couple chucklebaits which are reacting at gen 0.

Unrelated, but could lifelib be run to reduce gun populations in Catagolue?
Probably. If you provide me with a list of catalysts that can usually/sometimes be reduced, I can write a script that attempts to replace them using lifelib (ideally trying at five random points in the gun's evolution to account for reacting catalysts), and then automatically submits reduced guns to Catagolue. It should also attempt to remove components automatically to purge the last overdensified guns. I'll make a start on the latter function now.
(Moving discussion again)

One step ahead of you! Remember to orient guns so their gliders travel southeast

Oh, a few more for good measure (mostly syringe related)

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
24.4D2.5D2.D2.D3.4D2.3D4.3D$24.D2.D4.D4.D2.D3.D5.D2.D2.D$24.D2.D4.D4.
4D3.D5.D2.D3.2D$24.D2.D4.D4.D2.D3.4D2.3D6.D$24.D2.D4.D4.D2.D3.D5.D2.D
5.D$24.4D4.D4.D2.D3.4D2.D2.D2.3D3$24.4D3.2D3.D2.D$24.D5.D2.D2.D2.D$24.
4D2.D2.D2.D2.D$24.D5.4D2.D2.D$24.D5.D2.D2.D2.D$24.D5.D2.D2.D2.3D2$32.
D$32.D$32.D$30.D.D.D$31.3D$20.3D9.D17.4D2.4D2.5D2.D2.D3.D3.2D3.D$20.D
.D27.D2.D2.D2.D4.D4.D2.2D.2D2.D2.D2.D$20.3D27.D2.D2.D2.D4.D4.D2.D.D.D
2.D2.D2.D$20.D5.2E3.E18.D2.D2.4D4.D4.D2.D.D.D2.4D2.D$20.D5.E3.E.E17.D
2.D2.D7.D4.D2.D3.D2.D2.D2.D$27.E3.E.E16.4D2.D7.D4.D2.D3.D2.D2.D2.3D$28.
E3.E.E.2E$20.2F4.E.4E2.E.2E$20.F.A3.2E3.E.E10.F6.D8.D$21.3F5.E.E.2E.2E
5.2F5.D9.D$22.AF2.3E.E3.E.E5.3F4.D10.D$26.E2.E4.E.E4.4F3.D11.D$27.2E6.
E4.4FD2.D9.D2.D2.D$44.D.D11.D.D.D$44.2D13.3D$45.5D$2.2D3.D18.2D3.D$2.
D3.D.D17.D2A.D.A23.2A3.A$3.D3.D.D17.A3.A.A22.A3.A.A$4.D3.D.D.2D14.A3.
A.A.2A19.A3.A.A$2.D.4D2.D.2D6.2F7.A4.A.2A20.A3.A.A.2A$.D.D3.D.D10.F.A
4.A.5A9.D6.2D4.A.4A2.A.2A$.D2.D2.D.2D.2D7.3F2.A.A4.A.2A.A.2A2D6.D.A2.
A.A3.A.A10.F$2D3.D.D2.D.D2.D6.AF3.A2.2A.A2.A.2A.A2D7.3D.A.A2.A2.2A.2A
5.2F$4.2D.2D5.2D9.D2.2A.A.2A5.4D8.AD2.A3.2A2.A.A5.3F$25.12D2.4D7.14BA
BAB3.4F$11.D38.15BA2B2.4F$10.3D$9.D.D.D6.D30.2D$11.D9.D28.D2.D$11.D10.
D2.D24.D2.D$11.D11.D.D24.4D$24.2D.2C3.C17.D2.D$22.4D.C3.C.C16.D2.D$13.
D2.D2.2A7.C3.C.C$13.2D.D.A2.A7.C3.C.C.2C$13.D.2D.A2.A5.C.4C2.C.2C$13.
D2.D.A2.A4.C.C3.C.C10.D$13.D2.D2.2A5.C2.C4.2C.2C5.2D$27.2C3.C2.C.C2.C
2.3D$26.6B2C5B2CB4D$26.19D!

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
13.2C$13.C4.D$15.C3D$14.2C$15.2D$2A$.A$.A.2A$2.A2.A$3.2A$18.2A$18.2A4$
27.A3.2A$26.A.A3.A$25.A.A3.A$21.2A.A.A3.A$21.2A.A2.4A.A$25.A.A3.A.A$21.
2A.2A2.A2.A.A$22.A.A2.2A3.A$10.2A10.A.A$10.2A11.A!

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
11.2E2.2C$11.E.E2.ED$13.EC.D$13.E2D2.D$15.C3D$14.CE$15.2D$2A$.A$.A.2A
$2.A2.A$3.2A$18.2A$18.2A4$27.A3.2A$26.A.A3.A$25.A.A3.A$21.2A.A.A3.A$21.
2A.A2.4A.A$25.A.A3.A.A$21.2A.2A2.A2.A.A$22.A.A2.2A3.A$10.2A10.A.A$10.
2A11.A!
EDIT: More

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
15.A$13.3A$12.A$4.DA6.2A$4.A.A$5.A2$10.2A$10.2A5.2A$17.2A3$2A$2A2$15.
2A$15.A.A$17.A$17.2A!

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
D6.2A$D5.A.A$D5.A7.2A$D6.4A3.A$D4.A.A3.A4.A$D3.A.A3.2A3.2A$DC2.A6.2A.
A2.2A$CDE.A7.A.A2.A$DE2.A12.2A.2A$D.D.A.2A3.2A.A2.A$3D2.A2.A.A.A.A2.2A
$D2.A.A2.2A.A3.2A$D2.2A6.A.2A2.4A$D10.2A.A2.A2.A!

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
7D2A3D2A6D$7DA.ADA.A6D$9.A.A$4.2A2.A2.2A$3.A.A2.A.2A$2.A2.A.2A$3.3A3.
A$6.5A$5.A2.A2.A$5.2A$9.2A3$9.2A$2A6.A2.A6.2A$.A7.2A7.A$.A.A12.A.A$2.
2A12.2A!
WhiteHawk wrote:
January 18th, 2026, 4:25 pm
EDIT: Here is a comparison of the two most optimal p3 domino sparkers for the x5 (some instances)/x6 multiplier. Left is 59 cells and has better clearance, right is 58 cells

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
23.A4.A$2.2E3.E2.E11.A.A2.A.A$2.E2.6E11.A.4A.A$3.2E6.2E8.2A6.2A$3E2.E
.2E.E2.E6.A2.A.2A.A2.A$E2.2E2.2E2.2E.E4.A.2A2.2A2.2A.A$.E.E2.4E2.E.E4.
A.A2.4A2.A.A$2E.3E4.3E.2E2.2A.3A4.3A.2A$.E.E8.E.E4.A.A8.A.A$.E.E3.2E3.
E.E4.A.A3.2A3.A.A$2.E10.E6.A10.A!
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

Sokwe
Moderator
Posts: 3368
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by Sokwe » February 18th, 2026, 8:30 am

WhiteHawk wrote:
February 16th, 2026, 5:16 pm
Just some examples of the many reductions that could be made
PK22 wrote:
February 16th, 2026, 5:02 pm
If you provide me with a list of catalysts that can usually/sometimes be reduced, I can write a script that attempts to replace them using lifelib
For the stator parts of the gun, I think it makes more sense to run a stator optimizer script. Jeremy Dover wrote a Python script using the ortools package for this purpose, although the model was inefficient, so it took too long and used too much memory for high-period guns. I made a fork of the project (which I discuss a little more here) that simplifies the model, but breaks many of the features. However, it should fairly quickly minimize the stator of guns in the collection up to period 1000 (higher periods will probably still take too long). When run with only the input gun and the period it will minimize the stator while keeping the pattern within the original bounding box.

After cloning the repository (and installing the ortools Python package if you don't have it), here's how to use it to "efficiently" reduce a gun from the gun collection (if the period is less that ~50 just skip steps 2 and 3):
  1. Copy the gun (in LifeHistory) and paste it into Golly
  2. Select the whole pattern (ctrl+A) and run it until the glider fully leaves the initial bounding box (24 generations to deal with edge cases in the guns that still suffer from the bounding box glitch).
  3. Use shift+delete to remove the cells outside of the initial bounding box.
  4. Save the file in RLE format to the CGOL-Stator-Reducer folder
  5. Run stator_reducer.py with just the name of the RLE file and the period. None of the other options should be used (including --gun, as it's broken).
The reason for running the pattern for 24 generations and deleting the glider and history cells outside of the initial bounding box is because this causes the pre-solver pattern evolution and analysis to run much faster. The pattern evolution code is inefficient and spends a lot of time expanding the bounding box as the first output gilder moves outward and subsequently analyzing all of the empty cells in the expanded bounding box. This should be rewritten as well (or rather, probably the whole program should be redone from scratch with the original as a guide), but I don't intend to do this.

As an example, I tried the above process with the current (over-densified) guntrue_660. Here is the input pattern after applying step 3:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
2A.2A.A4.2A10.A7.2A7.A3.2A$2A.A.4A.A.A9.A.A2.2A.A.A5.3A3.2A$9.2A5.2A
4.A.A2.2A.A6.A$7.A4.A2.A.3A3.A6.ABA4.2A5.2A$.A4.A.8A4.A6.2A4BAB.3B4.A
.A$A.A3.A9.3A.A6.A.BAB.4B6.2A$.A2.2A.8A2B2A.ABA5.B9A$5.A.A2.B2.A.B2.B
A2.BA5.6B3A$3.A2B.AB.A2BA2B2.2B2A2B7.2B3.B$2.B2AB2A2.A2BA4B.2BA3B4.3B
8.A.A$3.BA.AB4.A2.B2A2B2A4B.4B9.2A.A$14.BA.B4A8B2A11.A$15.2A.A2.A2B.
2B2AB2AB5.5A.2A$.A14.A.A.2A3.4BAB2A4.BA3.A.A$A.A13.A.A.A5.8B3.B3A2B.A
$.A3.A5.B2A3.A2.A6.8B3.3AB2.2A$4.A.A4.3AB3.2A5.10B3.BAB.2A$.A3.A4.A.
2AB9.10BA3B2.2A.A$A.A6.A.A.2B8.A9BABA2B3.A.A.A$.A7.A2.A2.2B5.BABA7BAB
AB4.A2.2A$10.2A3.3B3.2B2A2.7BAB4.2A$4.2A9.3B.5B5.6B$3.A.A8.9B4.5B12.B
$3.A8.B.8B5.2A7.B6.3A$2A.AB.B3.11B7.A6.3A6.B$.A.A.2AB.12B4.3A8.B4.B$.
A.A.2A14B4.A14.3A$2A.A2.5B2A8B12.2B6.B$A2.4A3BA2BA5B.B2A8.6B7.B$.2A2.
BAB.2B2A6B.BA.A5.10B4.3A$3.2A6.7B5.A3.A2B2A4B2A2BA3.B$3.A7.2B.4B5.2A.
A3B3A2B3A3BA$.2A2.A.A7.4B8.A2B2A4B2A2BA$A2.3A.3A6.4B9.10B$.2A3.A3.A6.
4B10.6B5.A$2.A2.A2.A2.A.2A3.4B11.2B6.BAB$A4.A.2A.2A.A5.4B7.A2B2.2BA4.
A$6A.A2.A2.A2.A3.4B4.BABA4BABAB$7.A2.A2.A.A.A3.5B.B3A6B3AB$2A2.A.A4.
2A2.A.A4.7BABA4BABAB4.2A$2A2.2A9.2A6.6B.AB4.BA6.2A!
I then ran

Code: Select all

python3 stator_reducer.py guntrue_660.rle 660
which gave the following pattern after about 14 seconds:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 41, rule = B3/S23
31b2o7bo5b$27b2obobo5b3o5b$16b2o9b2obo6bo8b$7bobo2bo2bob3o10bobo4b2o
7b$6bob2o2b4o4bo6b2o4bo12b$6bo9b3obo6bo2bo15b$4b2ob8o2b2obobo6b9o8b$
5bobo5bo5bo3bo11b3o8b$3bo3bo2bo2bo6b2o24b$3b2ob2o2bo2bo7bo18bobo3b$4b
obo5bo3b2o2b2o18b2obo2b$15bo2b4o8b2o11bo2b$15b2obo2bo5b2ob2o6b5ob2o$
16bobob2o7bob2o5bo3bobob$16bobobo17b3o3bob$12b2o3bo2bo17b3o3b2o$11b3o
4b2o19bo2b2o2b$10bob2o20bo5b2obo2b$9bobo11bo9bobo5bobobo$9bo2bo10bobo
7bobo5bo2b2o$10b2o11b2o9bo5b2o4b$4b2o40b$3bobo40b$3bo23b2o14b3o$2obo
24bo6b3o8b$bobob2o18b3o18b$bobob2o18bo14b3o3b$2obo7b2o33b$o2b4o3bo2bo
7b2o23b$b2o3bo4b2o8bobo19b3o$3b2o18bo3bo2b2o4b2o2bo5b$3bo19b2obo3b3o
2b3o3bo4b$5bo21bo2b2o4b2o2bo5b$4b2o40b$42bo3b$42bo3b$30bo6bo4bo3b$29b
obo4bobo7b$28b3o6b3o6b$29bobo4bobo7b$30bo6bo8b!
Since it's a stator reducer, it obviously couldn't remove the unnecessary blinkers, so those would need to be removed by some other method. The optimizer also doesn't care about consistent use of equivalently-sized stator variants for patterns, so if someone cares about that sort of thing, they will need to run some post-processing to replace catalyst variants with a preferred standard form.

Obviously, the above steps can be automated to run through all of the guns up to period 1000, if someone has a mind to do that.

As a further test, I ran it on some difficult cases, which took the following times to complete: guntrue_991 was already optimal, but gun_31 and guntrue_4337 were slightly reduced, with guntrue_4337 actually having a smaller bounding box, although this is only due to the lucky accident that the minimal stator population results in a smaller bounding box, and not some feature of the program.

gun_31:

Code: Select all

x = 147, y = 99, rule = B3/S23
55b2o$55bobo56b2o$57bo4b2o50bobo$53b4ob2o2bo2bo50bo4b2o$53bo2bobobobob
2o46b4ob2o2bo2bo$56bobobobo49bo2bobobobob2o$57b2obobo52bobobobo$61bo
54b2obobo16bo$120bo16bobo$47b2o$48bo7b2o10bo37b2o29bo2bo$48bobo5b2o10b
3o36bo7b2o21bobobob2o$49b2o20bo35bobo5b2o11bo10bo3b2obo$70bobo35b2o18b
3o10bo4bo$70bobo58bo10b4o$71bo58bobo11bo$130bobo8bo2bo$131bo10b3o$68bo
75b2o$59b2o5bobo76bo$59bo7b2o17b2o30b2o24bobo$60b3o23b2o30bo25b2o$62bo
56b3o$34b2o71b3o11bo7bobo$34bo2bo9bo61bo20b2o$35b5o6b2o6b2o10b2o40bo
21bo$40bo4bo2bo5bo10bobo$37b3o5bo6bobo10bo60b2o$36bo6b2o2b2o3b2o10b2o
59bobo$36b4o2bo4b2o25bo50bo$34b2o3bob3o2bobo23b2ob2o7b2o38b2o7b2o$33bo
2b3o3bo4b2o32b2o2bo3b2o42b2o10b2o$33b2obo6b2o3bo22bobo7b2obo4b2o55bo$
36bo8bo2b3o20bo3bo8bobo54b2obo$36b2o7bobobo21b2o2bo5b2obob5o14b2o34b2o
b2o$46b3o23b3o5bo2bobo5bo13bo$39bobo3b3o25bo5bobobobo2b3o12bobo35b2ob
2o$31b2o5bob2o2b2o15bo16bobobo2bobo15b2o27bob2o4bo2b2o$31bobo4bo6bo15b
3o15bo2bobo2b4o40b5o3bobo4bo$33bo2b2ob6o19bo17bobobo3bo3b2o35b4o3bobob
2ob2o$32b2obobobo2bo20b2o16b2o2bob3o4b2o25b2o16bo2bo$33bobobobo38bobo
2bobobo34bo9b3o7bo$33bobob2o39b2o2bobo2bo34bobo7b3o6b2obo$34bo48bo3b2o
34b2o8bo4bobo2bobo$138b2o2bo2bo$47b2o36bo19b2o36b2o$37b3o7bo35b3o9b2o
7b2o$36bo3bo4bobo34bo13bo9bo$35bo5bo3b2o18b3o14b2o9b3o$34bo3bo3bo10bo
11bo27bo$34bo2bobo2bo10b3o10bo$34bo3bo3bo13bo$35bo5bo13bo$40bo14b2o26b
o$35bo3bo13b2o2bo23bobo$35bo16bo2b3o24b2o40b2o$36bo16bo23bo46b2o14b2o$
33b3o18b4o6b2o3b2o5bobo61bo$9bo23bo22bo7b2o3b2o6bo63b3o$9b3o46bo84bo$
12bo44b2o$11b2o3$3b2o120bo2bo$3bo119b4o9b2o$2obo9b3o66bo46bo6bo$o2b3o
7b3o64b3o40b2o2b2o5bobo$b2o3bo5bo3bo62bo54b2o$3b4o6b2obo40b2o20b2o46b
2o$3bo9b3o3b2o35b2o19b3o48b2o$4b3o12bobo36bo17bobo10b2o33bo2b2o9bo$7bo
13bo54bo2bo9bobo2b2o41bobo$2b5o14b2o16bo37b2o7bo4bo3bo41bobo$2bo36b3o
36b2o6b5ob3o41b2ob2o$4bo37bo30bo4b2o10bobo$3b2o24bo11b2o30bo3bo8b3obob
o12bo30b2ob2o$27b3o15bo8b2o17bobo3bo5bo2bob2o14b2o28b2obo2bo$26bo21bo
28bobo5b2o18b2o28b2o4b2o$26b2o20b3obob2o78b2o7b2o$11b2o31bo3b5ob2o19bo
3bo43b2o9b2o7bo$12bo32bo4b2o4bo19bo2bo42bobo16bobo$12bob2o37bobo21bo
44bo18b2o$13bo2bo33b2obo25bob2o38b2o$15bo35b3o29bo30bo$15bobo5b2o27bo
30bo23b2o3bobo$17bo2b6o40b2o13b3o18b2o3bo5b2o$17bobo2bo44bo34bobo3b3o$
19bo2bo2b2obo35b3o33bobob4o2bo$19b2o2b2o4bo9bo24bo35b2o5bo$6b3obo8b3ob
2o3bo9bo3b2o62bo$9bobo12bob2o9bo5bo39b2o21b2o22b2o$10b2o24bob2o2bo12b
2o27bo44b3obo$9b3o9bo2bo7b2obobo3bo13bobo23b3o44bo4bo$11bob4o4b3o8b2ob
o2b4obo13bo23bo45b2o$11bobo6b3o13bobo3bobo12b2o58b2o9b3o5b2o$10b2obobo
3b2o11b2ob2o4bo2bo71bobo10b2o5bobo$10bo2bobobo2bo9bo2bobo2bo3b2o72bo
21bo$11b2o5b2o10b2o5b2o76b2o21b2o!
guntrue_4337:

Code: Select all

x = 136, y = 133, rule = B3/S23
136b$136b$82b2obo50b$82bob4o48b$88bo47b$83b2o2bobo46b$83bo3b2o47b$84b
o51b$81b3o52b$81bo54b$62b2o5b2o65b$62bobo4b2o65b$63b2o71b$59b2o75b$
58bobo75b$58bo77b$57b2o77b$85b2o49b$84bo2bo48b$84bo2bo48b$63bo21b2o
12b2obo33b$60bobobo34b2ob3o31b$60b2obo41bo30b$22b2o11bo27bobo2bo30b2o
b3o31b$22b2o10bobo26bob4o31bobo33b$34bobo2b2o3bo19bo29b2o4bo35b$33b2o
b2o2bo2bobo20bo26bo2bo2b2o35b$37bobo3bobo19b2o26bobo4bob2o32b$33b2obo
2b4obo49bo5bob2o32b$33b2obobo3bo54b2obo35b$37bobo3bo15b2o36bo2bo35b$
38bobo3bo14bo34bo4bo36b$39bo3b2o12bobo34b5o37b$53b2o2b2o77b$53b2o41bo
39b$95bobo38b$30b2o8b2o2bobo49bo39b$30b2o10b2o2bo31b2o56b$15b2o22bo2b
2o2bo31b2o56b$14bo2bo21bobo2b2o90b$13bob2o119b$13bo65b2o55b$12b2o64bo
2bo54b$78bobo55b$26b2o48bobobobo53b$27bo47bobobobobo52b$26bo14b2o33bo
2bo2bo53b$26b2o12bobo34b2ob2o54b$b2o37bo37bobo55b$bo2bo34b2o37bobo55b
$2b5o14b2o56bo56b$7bo13bo24b2o88b$4b3o12bobo23bobo88b$3bo15b2o24bo90b
$3b4o35b2obo7b2o81b$b2o3bo3b2o25b2o3bobo8b2o81b$o2b3o4b2o16bo3b2o3bo
2bobo93b$2obo22b3o2bo2bo4b2ob2o92b$3bo21bo5bobo3bobo86bo9b$3b2o20b2o
5bob4o2bob2o80b3o9b$34bo3bobob2o79bo12b$33bo3bobo83b2o11b$11b2o19bo3b
obo97b$12bo19b2o3bo98b$9b3o119b2o3b$9bo122bo3b$132bob2o$45b2o77b2o4b
3o2bo$45b2o77b2o3bo3b2ob$60b2o67b4o3b$59bo2bo52b2o15bo3b$60b2obo50bob
o12b3o4b$13b2o48bo50bo13bo7b$13b2o48b2o48b2o14b5o2b$131bo2bob$49b2o
82b2ob$49bo86b$50bo85b$49b2o85b$136b$136b$136b$136b$136b$136b$136b$
136b$116b2o18b$117bo18b$116bo5b2o12b$116b2o5bo12b$123bob2o9b$116b2o2b
2obo2bo9b$116b2o3bob2o11b$121bo14b$120b2o14b$115bo20b$114bobo9b2o8b$
115bo11bo8b$127bob2o5b$119b2o4b3o2bo5b$119b2o3bo3b2o6b$124b4o8b$110b
2o15bo8b$109bobo12b3o9b$109bo13bo12b$108b2o14b5o7b$75bo50bo2bo6b$75b
3o50b2o6b$78bo57b$77b2o21bo35b$100b3o33b$103bo32b$102b2o32b$136b$136b
$109bo26b$87b2o19bobo25b$80b2o5bobo19bo3b2ob2o18b$80b2o7bo23b2obo2bo
16b$89b2o27b2o16b$105b2o29b$76bo28b2o4bo2bo21b$75bobob2o30b4o21b$75bo
bobobo35bo18b$74b2obobobo2bo16bo11b5o18b$75bo2b2ob4o15bobob2o7bo22b$
73bobo4bo19bobobobo8bo20b$73b2o5bobo16b2obobobo2bo4b2o20b$81b2o17bo2b
2ob4o26b$98bobo4bo30b$98b2o5bobo28b$106b2o28b!
-Matthias Merzenich

WhiteHawk
Posts: 1198
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » February 18th, 2026, 11:21 am

Sokwe wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 8:30 am

As an example, I tried the above process with the current (over-densified) guntrue_660. Here is the input pattern after applying step 3: I then ran

Code: Select all

python3 stator_reducer.py guntrue_660.rle 660
which gave the following pattern after about 14 seconds:
Note again that the bounding box for guntrue_660 is broken, so any update won't be submitted regardless

EDIT: gun_31 is also has a miscalculated BB. This is therefore a minimum population variant

Code: Select all

x = 147, y = 100, rule = B3/S23
55b2o$55bobo56b2o$57bo4b2o50bobo$53b4ob2o2bo2bo50bo4b2o$53bo2bobobobo
b2o46b4ob2o2bo2bo$56bobobobo49bo2bobobobob2o$57b2obobo52bobobobo$61bo
54b2obobo$120bo16b3o$47b2o89b2o$48bo7b2o10bo37b2o30b2obo$48bobo5b2o10b
3o36bo7b2o21bo5b2o$49b2o20bo35bobo5b2o11bo10bo2b3obo$70bobo35b2o18b3o
9bo5bo$70bobo58bo10b4o$71bo58bobo8b2o$130bobo8b2o$113b2o16bo11b3o$114b
2o$59b2o52bo32bo$50b3o6bo26b2o30b2o24bobo$52bo7b3o23b2o30bo25b2o$51bo
10bo56b3o$34b2o85bo11b3o$34bo2bo34bobo58b3o$35b5o14b2o10b2o5b2o57bo3b
o$40bo13bo10bobo5bo49b2obo5b2ob2o$37b3o12bobo10bo57bob2o$36bo15b2o10b
2o7b2o$36b4o33b2o69b2o$34b2o3bo3b2o39b2o58bo$33bo2b3o4b2o36b2o2bo3b2o
54bo$33b2obo44b2obo4b2o53b2o$36bo47bobo54b2o$36b2o43b2obob5o14b2o34b2o
b2o$80bo2bobo5bo13bo38bo$39bobo37bobobobo2b3o12bobo35b2o3bo$38bob2o2b
2o15bo10bo5bobobo2bobo15b2o35bo2b4o$32b2o4bo6bo15b3o7b3o5bo2bobo2b4o48b
obobo$30bo2bo2b2ob6o19bo9bo7bobobo3bo3b2o3b2o39bo2bob2o$30b2obobobobo
2bo20b2o6b2ob2o5b2o2bob3o4b2o3bobo19b2o8bo11bobo$33bobobobo30b2ob2o3b
obo2bobobo11bo22bo8bo10b2o2bo$33bobob2o21b2o8b2ob2o3b2o2bobo2bo34bobo
7bo6bobo2bobo$34bo24b2o10bo2bo8bo3b2o34b2o5b2o7b2o2bobo$61bo10b3o53b4o
12bo$47b2o23b2o11bo41bo2bo$38b2o7bo35b3o9b2o30bo2bo$38b2o5bobo34bo13b
o31b3o$45b2o35b2o9b3o$53bo39bo$53b3o$56bo$30bo24bo$28b2o25b2o$29b2o22b
2o2bo$35b2o15bo2b3o66b2o$36bo16bo23bo46b2o14b2o$33b3o18b4o6b2o3b2o5bo
bo61bo$9bo23bo22bo7b2o3b2o6bo63b3o$9b3o46bo28bobo53bo$12bo44b2o29b2o$
11b2o75bo$123bo$51b2o69b2o$3b2o46bobo68bobo$3bo47bo84b2o$2obo78bo53bo
$o2b3o4b2o68b3o51bobo$b2o3bo3b2o67bo54b2o$3b4o72b2o50bo$3bo15b2o110b2o
$4b3o12bobo67b2o41bo5bo$7bo13bo67bobo2b2o41bobo$2b5o14b2o16bo46bo4bo3b
o32bobo6bobo$2bo13bo22b3o14bo29b5ob3o34b2o5b2ob3o$4bo12bo7b2o15bo13bo
2b2o29bobo36bo12bo$3b2o10b3o7bo15b2o12bo5bo24b3obobo43b2ob3o$26bo29bo
bo2b2o22bo2bob2o35bo8b2obo$25b2o29bo3b2o23b2o40b2ob2o$58b3o67b3o12b2o
$11b2o110b2o4bo13bo$12bo109bobo16bobo$12bob2o96bo9bo18b2o$13bo2bo73b2o
18bobo8b2o$14b2o73b2ob2o17b2o$30bo48b2o8b2ob2o13b2o$29b3o34b2o11b2o10b
3o8b2o3bo$28bobo36bo34bobo3b3o$25b2o25b3o9b3o33bobob4o2bo$27bo24b3o9b
o35b2o5bo$38bo3b2o8bo53bo11bobo$37bobo3bo39b2o21b2o11b2o11bo$36bobo3b
o12b2o27bo34bo11bobo$32b2obobo3bo13bobo23b3o47bobo$32b2obo2b4obo13bo23b
o50bo$36bobo3bobo12b2o58b2o17b2o$32b2ob2o2bo2bobo71bobo17bobo$33bobo2b
2o3bo72bo10bo10bo$21b2o10bobo79b2o11bo9b2o$21b2o11bo91b3o!
Sokwe wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 8:30 am
As a further test, I ran it on some difficult cases, which took the following times to complete:
It's pretty customary to use the following version of the Snark in most gun designs it seems (same population as the other one, though), so using it will probably be IMO a more consistent choice

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2bobo$4bo4b2o$4ob2o2bo2bo$o2bobobobob2o$3bobobobo$4b2obobo$8bo!
Same with this high-clearance syringe catalyst variant

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
9bo3b2o$8bobo3bo$4b2obobo3bo$4b2obo4bo$8b5obo$2obob2obo4bobo$ob2obo2b
ob2o2bo$7b2obob2o!
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

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Posts: 3368
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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by Sokwe » February 20th, 2026, 7:39 am

Sokwe wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 8:30 am
Jeremy Dover wrote a Python script using the ortools package for [stator reduction]... I made a fork of the project that simplifies the model
I've written a new OR-Tools-based stator optimizer which is quite a bit faster at analyzing the pattern and setting up the search. It currently lacks any useful features, but it can now minimize the guns from catagolue without needing to remove the initial glider. Just save the LifeHistory pattern from Catagolue to the same folder as the script (e.g., as guntrue_660.rle) and run with

Code: Select all

./stator_optimizer.py guntrue_660.rle 660
Where the 660 at the end is the period of the gun. It will either output a gun with a smaller stator (in the same bounding box), or it will tell you that the stator is already optimal (for that bounding box).

I tried it on what seemed likely to be the worst-case scenario in the Catagolue collection, guntrue_9281, and it finished with the following time:

Setup time: 25s
Solver real (wall-clock) time: 2m 55s
Solver CPU time: 10m 2s
Total real time: 3m 20s

It found a slightly smaller weld between a syringe catalyst and an eater:

Code: Select all

x = 145, y = 123, rule = B3/S23
79b2o$79bobo$81bo4b2o$77b4ob2o2bo2bo$77bo2bobobobob2o$80bobobobo$81b2o
bobo$85bo2$71b2o$72bo7b2o28bo$72bobo5b2o27bobo$73b2o34bobo$108b2ob3o$
96b2o11bo4bo$96b2o10bo2b3o$22b2o11bo61bo5b3o2bo2bo$22b2o10bobo66bobo$
34bobo2b2o3bo52b3o2bo$33b2ob2o2bo2bobo37b2o10b5o3bobo$37bobo3bobo37bo
12bob2o3b2o$33b2obo2b4obo39b3o9bo2bo$33b2obobo3bo43bo15b3o$37bobo3bo
15b2o29bo5b3o2bo3bo5b2o$38bobo3bo14bo30bo10bo3bo5b2o$39bo3b2o12bobo41b
o2bo$53b2o2b2o43bo$53b2o46bobo$33b2o50b2o$32b2ob2o47bobo7bo$33bo2bo41b
2o4bo4bo4bobo12b2o$15b2o16bo2bo41b2o3b2o4bo2bo3bo12b2o$14bo2bo16b2o53b
o5bo$13bob2o73bo3bo10bo$13bo65b2o10b3o9b2o$12b2o64bo2bo$78bobo19b2o$
26b2o48bobobobo17b2o$27bo47bobobobobo$25bo15b2o33bo2bo2bo$3b2o20b2o13b
obo34b2ob2o$4bo35bo37bobo$2bo36b2o37bobo$2b5o14b2o56bo$7bo13bo24b2o$4b
3o12bobo23bobo$3bo15b2o24bo$3b4o35b2obo7b2o$b2o3bo3b2o25b2o2bo2bo8b2o$
o2b3o4b2o16bo3b2o3bo2bobo$2obo22b3o2bo2bo4b2ob2o$3bo21bo5bobo3bobo$3b
2o20b2o5bob4o2bob2o$34bo3bobob2o$33bo3bobo$11b2o19bo3bobo$12bo19b2o3bo
$9b3o$9bo119b2o$130bo$45b2o81bo5b2o$45b2o81b2o5bo$60b2o73bob2o$59bo2bo
65b2o2b2obo2bo$60b2obo64b2o3bob2o$13b2o48bo69bo$13b2o48b2o67b2o$127bo
11b2o$32b2o15b2o75bobo10bobo$32b2o15bo56bo20bo13bo$51bo52b3o34bob2o$
50b2o51bo34b2obobo$103b2o33b2obobo$132b2o7bob2o$122b2o7bo2bo3b4o2bo$
111b2o8bobo8b2o4bo3b2o$112bo8bo18b2o$112bob2o4b2o19bo$104b2o4b3o2bo23b
o$104b2o3bo3b2o24b2o$109b4o$95b2o15bo$94bobo12b3o$94bo13bo$93b2o14b5o$
100bo12bo$98b2o11bo$99b2o10b2o11$95bo$74bo20b3o$74b3o21bo$77bo19b2o$
76b2o6$107b2o$86b2o10bo8bobo$79b2o5bobo8bobo9bo$79b2o7bo8bobo9b2o$88b
2o8bo2$75bo$74bobob2o$74bobobobo16b2ob2o$71b2obobobobo2bo9b2o3bob2o2b
2o$71bo2bo2b2ob4o9bo2bobo6bo$73b2o4bo15b2ob7o$63bo15bobo15bo$64bo15b2o
15bob4o$62b3o33b2o2bo!
Sokwe wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 8:30 am
I ran it on some difficult cases, which took the following times to complete:
I ran these again for comparison with the previous version. Here are the total wall-clock times:
  • gun_31: 2m 23s
  • guntrue_991: 32s
  • guntrue_4337: 3m 20s (same as guntrue_9281)
If someone wants to, I'm sure they could easily adapt the code to run through all of the current guns up to period 1000 in Catagolue. I don't intend to do this myself. As before, the optimizer doesn't care about using consistent versions of catalysts, so if we care about that, these optimized guns would need some sort of post-processing to ensure the preferred catalyst variants are used.
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 11:21 am
It's pretty customary to use the following version of the Snark in most gun designs it seems (same population as the other one, though), so using it will probably be IMO a more consistent choice

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2bobo$4bo4b2o$4ob2o2bo2bo$o2bobobobob2o$3bobobobo$4b2obobo$8bo!
Is there any reason for this? That's the original variant, and I think the one that's easiest to synthesize, but aesthetically I prefer the other one. What criteria, if any, should be used to pick the "standard" catalysts. I'm willing to just let whoever wants to put in the work to minimize everything choose what they want to use.
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 11:21 am
Note again that the bounding box for guntrue_660 is broken
I'm well aware. I was the one who submitted the (correct) p660 gun, but someone took advantage of the bounding box glitch to overdensify it, which I thought wasn't very classy.
Sokwe wrote:
December 1st, 2024, 7:32 pm
p660 (the tub is there on purpose; don't delete it):
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » February 20th, 2026, 11:30 am

Sokwe wrote:
February 20th, 2026, 7:39 am
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 18th, 2026, 11:21 am
It's pretty customary to use the following version of the Snark in most gun designs it seems (same population as the other one, though), so using it will probably be IMO a more consistent choice
Is there any reason for this? That's the original variant, and I think the one that's easiest to synthesize, but aesthetically I prefer the other one. What criteria, if any, should be used to pick the "standard" catalysts. I'm willing to just let whoever wants to put in the work to minimize everything choose what they want to use.
It's mostly a tradition reason I say that this variant should be used, which means that it is involved in most guns already.

Maybe randomizing which variant is used would be a better idea and show that they're interchangeable in terms of minipop?
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by Sokwe » February 21st, 2026, 1:59 am

Sokwe wrote:
February 20th, 2026, 7:39 am
I've written a new OR-Tools-based stator optimizer which is quite a bit faster at analyzing the pattern and setting up the search....

If someone wants to, I'm sure they could easily adapt the code to run through all of the current guns up to period 1000 in Catagolue.
I fixed a bug that would cause misalignment of the search box if there were rotor cells that went beyond the stator bounding box at the top or left of the pattern. If anyone has already started this project, they should update to the latest version.

Edit (Feb. 24, 2026): I noticed that a recent shinjuki job added a lot of gun improvements. Has somebody finally run an automated reduction on the whole gun collection? If so, I'm curious to know what method they used.
-Matthias Merzenich

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Joined: July 10th, 2024, 5:34 pm

Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » April 27th, 2026, 10:36 pm

Sokwe wrote:
February 21st, 2026, 1:59 am
Sokwe wrote:
February 20th, 2026, 7:39 am
I've written a new OR-Tools-based stator optimizer which is quite a bit faster at analyzing the pattern and setting up the search....

If someone wants to, I'm sure they could easily adapt the code to run through all of the current guns up to period 1000 in Catagolue.
I fixed a bug that would cause misalignment of the search box if there were rotor cells that went beyond the stator bounding box at the top or left of the pattern. If anyone has already started this project, they should update to the latest version.

Edit (Feb. 24, 2026): I noticed that a recent shinjuki job added a lot of gun improvements. Has somebody finally run an automated reduction on the whole gun collection? If so, I'm curious to know what method they used.
I don't know, but there are still a lot of guns that are overdensified (including some of those below).
WhiteHawk wrote:
March 19th, 2025, 1:14 pm
WhiteHawk wrote:
March 11th, 2025, 10:58 am
confocaloid wrote:
March 4th, 2025, 3:30 pm


Historical note so that future readers will be able to know what people in 2025 were talking about: here are the six mentioned glider guns as they currently appear on Catagolue. Looks like an exercise in pointless densification:
Someone did the same thing with guntrue_9760, a gun I revealed yesterday.

EDIT: Same with Guntrue_285
Found more today with guntrue_3457, guntrue_3449, guntrue_3433, guntrue_3271, guntrue_3607, guntrue_3719, guntrue_3943, guntrue_3947, guntrue_4111, guntrue_4951, guntrue_3391, guntrue_3343, guntrue_3511, guntrue_3623, guntrue_3847, guntrue_4127, guntrue_3407, guntrue_3463, guntrue_3631, guntrue_3911, guntrue_3967, guntrue_4079, guntrue_3359, guntrue_3527, guntrue_3583, guntrue_3863, guntrue_3919, guntrue_3319, guntrue_3767, guntrue_3823, guntrue_4271, guntrue_4327.

I got this list by checking all the primes mentioned in the three most recent posts on the "Small Four-Digit Prime Period Guns" thread.
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by WhiteHawk » June 2nd, 2026, 3:15 pm

Uploaded a bunch of new fixes to some of the increasingly few overdensified Bounding Boxes. Is there a way to check which glider gun periods still need fixes?
Currently working to improve Life's guns and work on updating SKOPs and Isotropic rules most similar to B3/S23 to Life standards. Will get software to begin searches eventually.

Pseudastur albicollis

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Re: Issues concerning gun & guntrue submissions on Catagolue - solution discussion thread

Post by dvgrn » Yesterday, 7:24 am

EDIT: See also the next post on the next page.
WhiteHawk wrote:
June 2nd, 2026, 3:15 pm
Uploaded a bunch of new fixes to some of the increasingly few overdensified Bounding Boxes. Is there a way to check which glider gun periods still need fixes?
I had Copilot write a bounding-box density surveyor -- currently it's set up to scan just the "guntrue" guns, but a quick search-and-replace would make it work for the regular "gun" collection instead.

Code: Select all

# gun-density-calculator.py
#
# Downloads current guntrue entries from Catagolue and calculates pattern bounding box densities

import golly as g

import csv
import re
import requests
from io import StringIO

CENSUS_URL = "https://catagolue.hatsya.com/textcensus/b3s23/synthesis-costs/guntrue"
OBJECT_URL = "https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/{}/b3s23"
OUTPUT_PATH = "C:/REPLACE/WITH/YOUR/PATH/gun_densities.csv"

# Regexes for parsing
RE_BBOX = re.compile(r"bbox\s+(\d+)\s+by\s+(\d+)")
RE_POP = re.compile(r"([0-9]+)A")  # count literal A's in RLE lines

def fetch_text_census():
    r = requests.get(CENSUS_URL, timeout=20)
    r.raise_for_status()
    return list(csv.DictReader(StringIO(r.text)))

def fetch_rle(apgcode):
    url = OBJECT_URL.format(apgcode)
    r = requests.get(url, timeout=20)
    r.raise_for_status()
    text = r.text

    # Extract the LifeHistory RLE block
    # It is inside <code id="code2"> ... </code>
    m = re.search(r'<code id="code2">(.*?)</code>', text, re.S)
    if not m:
        return None
    return m.group(1)

def parse_bbox(rle_block):
    """Extract bounding box from the #C period line."""
    for line in rle_block.splitlines():
        if "bbox" in line:
            m = RE_BBOX.search(line)
            if m:
                return int(m.group(1)), int(m.group(2))
    return None, None

def count_population(rle_block):
    """Count state-1 cells (A) in the RLE."""
    pop = 0
    for line in rle_block.splitlines():
        if line.startswith("#") or line.startswith("x ="):
            continue
        # Count occurrences of A, including run-length encoded forms
        # e.g. "12A" ? 12
        parts = re.findall(r"(\d*)A", line)
        for p in parts:
            pop += int(p) if p else 1
    return pop

census = fetch_text_census()
results = []

count = len(census)
for row in census:
    count  -= 1
    apgcode = row["apgcode"]
    g.show(f"{count}: Processing {apgcode}...")


    rle = fetch_rle(apgcode)
    if not rle:
        g.note(f"  No RLE found for {apgcode}")
        continue

    bbox_x, bbox_y = parse_bbox(rle)
    if not bbox_x or not bbox_y:
        g.note(f"  No bbox found for {apgcode}")
        continue

    pop = count_population(rle)
    density = pop / (bbox_x * bbox_y)

    results.append({
        "apgcode": apgcode,
        "bbox_x": bbox_x,
        "bbox_y": bbox_y,
        "population": pop,
        "density": density
    })

# Sort by density descending
results.sort(key=lambda r: r["density"], reverse=True)

# Write CSV
with open(OUTPUT_PATH, "w", newline="") as f:
    writer = csv.DictWriter(
        f,
        fieldnames=["apgcode", "bbox_x", "bbox_y", "population", "density"]
    )
    writer.writeheader()
    writer.writerows(results)

g.show("Done. Results written to gun_densities.csv")
It seemed to work very nicely once I installed the requests library with "pip install requests", and turned it into a Golly Python script (just because I always do that, and because maybe Version 2 of the script could do a bunch more processing on each gun pattern, to look for isolated islands that are completely unconnected to the output glider stream, instead of relying on a rough density measure).

It takes about fifteen minutes to complete the survey -- pulls quite a lot of data from Catagolue, so maybe don't run it too often. Here is the sorted output:

Code: Select all

apgcode,bbox_x,bbox_y,population,density
guntrue_18,68,50,854,0.2511764705882353
guntrue_35,61,40,574,0.23524590163934425
guntrue_20,44,27,271,0.2281144781144781
guntrue_100,39,32,273,0.21875
guntrue_114,47,44,444,0.21470019342359767
guntrue_228,47,44,442,0.2137330754352031
guntrue_200,39,33,271,0.21056721056721056
guntrue_60,23,25,120,0.20869565217391303
guntrue_81,68,46,646,0.20652173913043478
guntrue_171,47,44,420,0.20309477756286268
guntrue_27,48,33,317,0.20012626262626262
guntrue_300,40,34,269,0.19779411764705881
guntrue_28,31,23,140,0.19635343618513323
guntrue_40,27,19,99,0.19298245614035087
guntrue_770,70,44,587,0.19058441558441558
guntrue_600,40,40,296,0.185
guntrue_24,20,20,74,0.185
guntrue_56,31,29,166,0.1846496106785317
guntrue_25,22,22,88,0.18181818181818182
guntrue_54,37,17,113,0.17965023847376788
guntrue_14,72,60,776,0.17962962962962964
guntrue_400,46,39,322,0.1794871794871795
guntrue_1368,59,47,495,0.17850703209520374
guntrue_36,31,32,177,0.17842741935483872
guntrue_55,29,31,160,0.17797552836484984
guntrue_110,41,29,208,0.17493692178301093
guntrue_456,50,47,410,0.17446808510638298
guntrue_342,59,47,480,0.1730977280923188
guntrue_684,59,47,479,0.17273710782545978
guntrue_120,23,32,126,0.17119565217391305
guntrue_52,33,26,146,0.17016317016317017
guntrue_1000,52,39,345,0.17011834319526628
guntrue_513,59,47,470,0.1694915254237288
guntrue_500,52,39,343,0.16913214990138067
guntrue_57,47,40,316,0.16808510638297872
guntrue_900,52,39,338,0.16666666666666666
guntrue_50,36,22,132,0.16666666666666666
guntrue_30,36,9,54,0.16666666666666666
guntrue_1800,55,39,354,0.16503496503496504
guntrue_70,24,30,118,0.1638888888888889
guntrue_360,40,23,150,0.16304347826086957
guntrue_2280,63,47,480,0.16210739614994935
guntrue_1200,48,41,318,0.16158536585365854
guntrue_275,51,43,352,0.16051071591427268
guntrue_15,32,31,159,0.16028225806451613
guntrue_912,61,47,458,0.15974886641088246
guntrue_243,68,65,705,0.1595022624434389
guntrue_1728,56,37,330,0.15926640926640925
guntrue_182,44,42,294,0.1590909090909091
guntrue_63,34,30,161,0.15784313725490196
guntrue_68,39,33,203,0.15773115773115773
guntrue_1140,63,47,464,0.15670381627828436
guntrue_432,48,33,248,0.15656565656565657
guntrue_2736,68,48,511,0.1565563725490196
guntrue_216,33,37,191,0.15642915642915642
guntrue_2000,67,42,440,0.15636105188343993
guntrue_112,35,35,189,0.15428571428571428
guntrue_972,53,40,326,0.15377358490566037
guntrue_162,35,40,214,0.15285714285714286
guntrue_440,36,40,220,0.1527777777777778
guntrue_1026,63,47,452,0.15265113137453562
guntrue_4000,67,44,449,0.1523066485753053
guntrue_616,80,32,389,0.151953125
guntrue_250,54,41,336,0.15176151761517614
guntrue_1250,55,63,522,0.15064935064935064
guntrue_1944,57,40,342,0.15
guntrue_140,43,30,193,0.1496124031007752
guntrue_224,46,35,240,0.14906832298136646
guntrue_324,50,34,253,0.14882352941176472
guntrue_160,49,25,182,0.14857142857142858
guntrue_5000,59,52,455,0.1483050847457627
guntrue_16,36,24,128,0.14814814814814814
guntrue_3200,44,64,417,0.14808238636363635
guntrue_2400,53,47,368,0.14773183460457648
guntrue_21,36,27,143,0.147119341563786
guntrue_364,45,42,278,0.14708994708994708
guntrue_8000,64,52,488,0.1466346153846154
guntrue_750,51,43,321,0.146374829001368
guntrue_729,79,67,769,0.14528622709238617
guntrue_350,52,42,317,0.14514652014652016
guntrue_550,57,43,355,0.1448388412892697
guntrue_6400,46,66,437,0.14393939393939395
guntrue_165,46,29,192,0.14392803598200898
guntrue_48,31,16,71,0.1431451612903226
guntrue_2311,128,107,1959,0.14303446261682243
guntrue_7883,124,104,1844,0.14299007444168735
guntrue_2912,57,45,366,0.14269005847953217
guntrue_6561,88,68,853,0.14254679144385027
guntrue_234,56,34,271,0.14233193277310924
guntrue_3389,130,111,2053,0.14227304227304227
guntrue_3301,127,108,1950,0.14216972878390202
guntrue_8011,126,105,1878,0.1419501133786848
guntrue_2399,131,110,2043,0.1417765440666204
guntrue_108,37,33,173,0.1416871416871417
guntrue_2351,129,108,1973,0.14161642262417456
guntrue_2187,88,68,846,0.1413770053475936
guntrue_117,42,29,172,0.1412151067323481
guntrue_2203,124,104,1821,0.14120657568238212
guntrue_6079,126,105,1866,0.14104308390022677
guntrue_4133,123,107,1855,0.14094673657016943
guntrue_6779,135,114,2168,0.14087069525666016
guntrue_4139,123,104,1802,0.1408692933083177
guntrue_308,73,43,442,0.14080917489646383
guntrue_80,35,26,128,0.14065934065934066
guntrue_624,50,33,232,0.1406060606060606
guntrue_5839,126,108,1909,0.1402851263962375
guntrue_220,36,40,202,0.14027777777777778
guntrue_2239,125,104,1823,0.14023076923076924
guntrue_4259,126,107,1889,0.14011274291648124
guntrue_2957,120,107,1797,0.1399532710280374
guntrue_3253,125,106,1854,0.13992452830188679
guntrue_2243,125,104,1819,0.13992307692307693
guntrue_5939,130,112,2037,0.13990384615384616
guntrue_3373,128,109,1951,0.13983658256880735
guntrue_2339,129,108,1948,0.13982199253517083
guntrue_5323,123,112,1925,0.13973577235772358
guntrue_5807,122,104,1772,0.1396595208070618
guntrue_5923,128,110,1965,0.1395596590909091
guntrue_3209,125,106,1849,0.13954716981132076
guntrue_6343,129,108,1944,0.13953488372093023
guntrue_2267,126,105,1846,0.13953136810279668
guntrue_3433,133,114,2115,0.13949347051840127
guntrue_5743,124,107,1849,0.13935785348206212
guntrue_2287,127,106,1876,0.13935522210667062
guntrue_6763,133,112,2075,0.13929914070891514
guntrue_4243,130,111,2010,0.1392931392931393
guntrue_798,55,47,360,0.13926499032882012
guntrue_5791,130,113,2045,0.13921034717494896
guntrue_7691,128,110,1960,0.13920454545454544
guntrue_3449,131,112,2040,0.1390403489640131
guntrue_6247,127,106,1871,0.13898380626949933
guntrue_3547,115,107,1710,0.1389678992279561
guntrue_3733,117,105,1706,0.13886853886853887
guntrue_5927,127,108,1904,0.1388159813356664
guntrue_4099,124,106,1824,0.13877054169202677
guntrue_2111,119,102,1684,0.13873784808040862
guntrue_2969,119,106,1750,0.13873473917869034
guntrue_7643,122,104,1760,0.13871374527112232
guntrue_9120,71,51,502,0.13863573598453466
guntrue_825,51,45,318,0.13856209150326798
guntrue_6143,121,114,1911,0.13853849499782514
guntrue_4027,121,104,1741,0.1383502860775588
guntrue_1500,55,43,327,0.13826638477801267
guntrue_4723,124,116,1988,0.1382091212458287
guntrue_154,69,56,534,0.13819875776397517
guntrue_3001,119,105,1726,0.13813525410164065
guntrue_660,42,40,232,0.1380952380952381
guntrue_5783,129,112,1995,0.1380813953488372
guntrue_3779,120,108,1788,0.13796296296296295
guntrue_240,38,29,152,0.13793103448275862
guntrue_7351,129,115,2046,0.1379170879676441
guntrue_4019,126,110,1910,0.1378066378066378
guntrue_3257,127,108,1890,0.1377952755905512
guntrue_4219,127,108,1890,0.1377952755905512
guntrue_5479,121,107,1784,0.13779253881208
guntrue_3181,124,105,1794,0.13778801843317973
guntrue_455,61,43,361,0.1376286694624476
guntrue_2500,60,51,421,0.13758169934640524
guntrue_2837,117,107,1722,0.13755092259765156
guntrue_2347,130,109,1949,0.13754410726887792
guntrue_3539,114,106,1661,0.13745448526977821
guntrue_5119,116,106,1690,0.1374430709173715
guntrue_3739,121,110,1828,0.13734034560480843
guntrue_7591,131,115,2069,0.13733820112844342
guntrue_832,53,36,262,0.13731656184486374
guntrue_2423,132,111,2011,0.13725088725088724
guntrue_2621,110,105,1585,0.13722943722943723
guntrue_864,50,43,295,0.1372093023255814
guntrue_2179,123,104,1755,0.13719512195121952
guntrue_2861,116,105,1670,0.13711001642036125
guntrue_6571,114,105,1641,0.13709273182957393
guntrue_3931,121,106,1758,0.13706533603617652
guntrue_5419,125,113,1936,0.13706194690265486
guntrue_150,40,27,148,0.13703703703703704
guntrue_3229,126,107,1847,0.13699747811897345
guntrue_3169,124,106,1800,0.13694461351186854
guntrue_2777,115,107,1685,0.13693620479479887
guntrue_2251,126,105,1811,0.13688586545729403
guntrue_2447,133,112,2039,0.13688238453276047
guntrue_3061,121,105,1739,0.13687524596615505
guntrue_4051,124,107,1816,0.13687066626469702
guntrue_1650,57,45,351,0.1368421052631579
guntrue_4261,125,107,1829,0.13674766355140186
guntrue_2371,131,110,1970,0.13671061762664816
guntrue_2909,118,106,1709,0.1366325551646946
guntrue_2953,121,109,1802,0.13662900902267042
guntrue_4637,131,106,1896,0.13654040040328388
guntrue_1456,45,57,350,0.1364522417153996
guntrue_2087,118,102,1642,0.13642406114988367
guntrue_2789,115,106,1663,0.13642329778506973
guntrue_2063,117,102,1627,0.13633316574493046
guntrue_3089,122,106,1763,0.13632848747293536
guntrue_6691,115,105,1646,0.13631469979296065
guntrue_2207,123,102,1710,0.13629842180774748
guntrue_378,49,37,247,0.13623827909542197
guntrue_2729,113,106,1631,0.13616630489230255
guntrue_3121,122,105,1743,0.1360655737704918
guntrue_2131,121,104,1712,0.13604577240940877
guntrue_5107,116,107,1688,0.13599742184982275
guntrue_2857,117,107,1702,0.13595335090662194
guntrue_2730,72,42,411,0.1359126984126984
guntrue_6703,118,109,1748,0.13590421396361374
guntrue_104,41,21,117,0.13588850174216027
guntrue_3217,126,107,1831,0.13581071057706573
guntrue_4502,124,105,1768,0.1357910906298003
guntrue_1410,60,41,334,0.13577235772357724
guntrue_3137,124,107,1800,0.13566475731082303
guntrue_4951,115,107,1669,0.1356359203575782
guntrue_5591,125,110,1864,0.13556363636363636
guntrue_3049,121,106,1738,0.13550600343053174
guntrue_4349,126,110,1878,0.1354978354978355
guntrue_3643,115,105,1636,0.13548654244306418
guntrue_4157,123,110,1833,0.13547671840354766
guntrue_2753,116,109,1712,0.1354001898133502
guntrue_5827,126,109,1859,0.13535750691713994
guntrue_6451,113,105,1605,0.13527180783817952
guntrue_5903,124,105,1761,0.13525345622119817
guntrue_4943,114,106,1634,0.13522012578616352
guntrue_2083,119,104,1672,0.13510019392372333
guntrue_123,52,51,358,0.13499245852187028
guntrue_7411,121,105,1715,0.1349862258953168
guntrue_310,51,43,296,0.1349749202006384
guntrue_552,46,24,149,0.13496376811594202
guntrue_3499,115,108,1675,0.13486312399355876
guntrue_2039,116,102,1595,0.13480392156862744
guntrue_2657,112,107,1614,0.13467957276368492
guntrue_3024,51,38,261,0.1346749226006192
guntrue_4093,122,110,1807,0.13464977645305515
guntrue_2693,111,104,1554,0.1346153846153846
guntrue_6624,52,34,238,0.1346153846153846
guntrue_6823,119,109,1744,0.13445378151260504
guntrue_2593,110,102,1508,0.13440285204991087
guntrue_4373,127,105,1792,0.13438320209973753
guntrue_5471,120,106,1709,0.1343553459119497
guntrue_5099,115,106,1637,0.1342904019688269
guntrue_3221,125,106,1779,0.13426415094339622
guntrue_2099,119,103,1644,0.13412743738272007
guntrue_3907,124,110,1829,0.1340909090909091
guntrue_3659,117,107,1678,0.13403626487738637
guntrue_648,43,46,265,0.1339737108190091
guntrue_5207,117,106,1661,0.13393001128850185
guntrue_1290,60,40,321,0.13375
guntrue_6679,115,106,1630,0.13371616078753076
guntrue_5179,115,105,1614,0.1336645962732919
guntrue_4357,126,111,1868,0.13356213356213356
guntrue_2833,118,109,1716,0.1334162649665682
guntrue_910,61,44,358,0.13338301043219075
guntrue_2713,115,109,1671,0.13330674112485041
guntrue_4253,125,106,1766,0.13328301886792454
guntrue_6765,59,51,401,0.13326686606846128
guntrue_4021,121,109,1757,0.13321707483508985
guntrue_3877,119,107,1695,0.13311866802795885
guntrue_2741,113,105,1579,0.1330804888327012
guntrue_3109,123,106,1735,0.13307255714066574
guntrue_1050,53,43,303,0.13295304958315052
guntrue_2617,111,107,1579,0.13294603014229184
guntrue_91,44,33,193,0.13292011019283748
guntrue_4397,127,108,1823,0.13291046952464275
guntrue_4013,121,108,1736,0.13284358738904192
guntrue_3797,118,105,1644,0.13268765133171914
guntrue_2689,112,106,1574,0.13258086253369272
guntrue_2749,114,106,1601,0.13248924197285666
guntrue_728,48,45,286,0.13240740740740742
guntrue_1845,56,51,378,0.1323529411764706
guntrue_196,76,35,352,0.13233082706766916
guntrue_5227,121,111,1775,0.1321569503387685
guntrue_136,40,35,185,0.13214285714285715
guntrue_3821,118,108,1684,0.13214061519146264
guntrue_2609,110,106,1540,0.1320754716981132
guntrue_75,26,33,113,0.1317016317016317
guntrue_2250,51,60,403,0.13169934640522876
guntrue_3989,121,105,1672,0.1316017316017316
guntrue_486,51,38,255,0.13157894736842105
guntrue_7776,51,58,389,0.1315077755240027
guntrue_5443,118,105,1626,0.13123486682808716
guntrue_390,41,40,215,0.13109756097560976
guntrue_1100,52,46,313,0.13085284280936454
guntrue_280,44,32,184,0.13068181818181818
guntrue_3691,115,104,1562,0.1306020066889632
guntrue_468,58,35,265,0.13054187192118227
guntrue_156,48,34,213,0.13051470588235295
guntrue_2897,118,107,1646,0.1303659116109615
guntrue_1596,71,54,498,0.1298904538341158
guntrue_92,45,25,146,0.12977777777777777
guntrue_3943,120,101,1571,0.12962046204620462
guntrue_4080,50,48,311,0.12958333333333333
guntrue_5231,120,109,1694,0.12951070336391438
guntrue_4111,123,101,1608,0.12943733397730017
guntrue_273,70,33,299,0.12943722943722943
guntrue_480,38,35,172,0.1293233082706767
guntrue_304,54,49,342,0.1292517006802721
guntrue_615,53,51,349,0.12911579726230116
guntrue_4007,122,102,1599,0.1284956605593057
guntrue_4231,126,103,1667,0.1284481430112498
guntrue_1320,42,44,237,0.12824675324675325
guntrue_5580,59,46,348,0.12822402358142962
guntrue_585,57,50,365,0.1280701754385965
guntrue_546,47,54,324,0.1276595744680851
guntrue_86,49,32,200,0.12755102040816327
guntrue_1872,50,47,299,0.12723404255319148
guntrue_1080,45,40,229,0.1272222222222222
guntrue_320,34,40,173,0.12720588235294117
guntrue_288,50,28,178,0.12714285714285714
guntrue_265,54,52,357,0.12713675213675213
guntrue_1992,56,42,299,0.12712585034013604
guntrue_3271,108,101,1386,0.12706270627062707
guntrue_1197,71,54,486,0.1267605633802817
guntrue_1150,60,57,433,0.12660818713450292
guntrue_295,63,39,311,0.12657712657712658
guntrue_42,32,23,93,0.12635869565217392
guntrue_450,51,32,206,0.12622549019607843
guntrue_448,52,41,269,0.12617260787992496
guntrue_608,49,55,340,0.1261595547309833
guntrue_3727,117,102,1503,0.12594268476621417
guntrue_4127,124,102,1592,0.12586970271979758
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guntrue_2094,127,54,281,0.04097404491105278
guntrue_4523,117,111,532,0.040964040964040965
guntrue_5399,121,108,535,0.04093970003060912
guntrue_806,76,72,224,0.04093567251461988
guntrue_9151,132,117,632,0.04092204092204092
guntrue_8627,120,122,599,0.04091530054644809
guntrue_7127,123,111,557,0.04079689445543104
guntrue_8969,130,133,705,0.04077501445922498
guntrue_9041,130,133,705,0.04077501445922498
guntrue_7211,124,110,556,0.040762463343108506
guntrue_5387,121,109,537,0.040715747971794676
guntrue_1098,65,67,177,0.04064293915040184
guntrue_5113,131,105,559,0.04063976735732461
guntrue_5209,131,105,559,0.04063976735732461
guntrue_4733,132,110,590,0.040633608815427
guntrue_5987,126,107,546,0.040498442367601244
guntrue_7247,124,111,557,0.040467887242080794
guntrue_7282,96,86,334,0.04045542635658915
guntrue_7331,125,110,556,0.04043636363636364
guntrue_8147,129,108,563,0.040410565604364054
guntrue_8527,132,118,629,0.04038263995891114
guntrue_5689,139,116,651,0.04037459687422476
guntrue_946,85,65,223,0.040361990950226245
guntrue_5857,142,119,682,0.04035980589418866
guntrue_1244,91,67,246,0.040347711989503036
guntrue_1699,119,90,432,0.040336134453781515
guntrue_8839,133,112,600,0.040279269602577876
guntrue_5737,139,117,655,0.04027547193014819
guntrue_7753,130,102,534,0.040271493212669686
guntrue_9137,133,130,695,0.04019664545980335
guntrue_294,58,52,121,0.04011936339522546
guntrue_7451,126,110,556,0.04011544011544012
guntrue_7487,126,111,561,0.04011154011154011
guntrue_5407,122,109,533,0.040081215220333886
guntrue_1226,72,96,277,0.04007523148148148
guntrue_9049,131,134,703,0.0400478523413467
guntrue_5801,141,118,666,0.04002884962134872
guntrue_3613,129,101,521,0.03998771970220278
guntrue_5849,141,119,670,0.03993086596340664
guntrue_7219,125,111,554,0.03992792792792793
guntrue_9011,123,122,599,0.03991736638677862
guntrue_8699,121,123,593,0.03984411744943896
guntrue_8303,131,110,574,0.039833448993754336
guntrue_4283,129,110,565,0.03981677237491191
guntrue_4049,127,124,627,0.039814579629159255
guntrue_5281,134,108,576,0.03980099502487562
guntrue_1753,106,89,375,0.039749841000636
guntrue_8831,132,111,582,0.039721539721539724
guntrue_8929,141,119,666,0.03969247273377436
guntrue_3541,128,100,508,0.0396875
guntrue_822,77,73,223,0.039672656111012276
guntrue_7841,131,103,535,0.039650188986882086
guntrue_4057,127,125,629,0.03962204724409449
guntrue_7681,131,103,533,0.03950196398132365
guntrue_8263,131,110,569,0.03948646773074254
guntrue_7919,130,111,569,0.03943173943173943
guntrue_7937,133,105,550,0.039384174722520586
guntrue_1721,114,93,417,0.03933220147142049
guntrue_9241,135,130,690,0.039316239316239315
guntrue_8423,132,111,576,0.03931203931203931
guntrue_5441,136,110,588,0.0393048128342246
guntrue_7459,127,111,554,0.03929914166134638
guntrue_962,86,66,223,0.039288231148696263
guntrue_6427,131,110,566,0.03927827897293546
guntrue_1434,83,71,231,0.03919904972000679
guntrue_8951,133,112,583,0.03913802363050484
guntrue_8039,131,111,569,0.03913073378722234
guntrue_5393,136,110,585,0.03910427807486631
guntrue_6359,131,110,562,0.03900069396252602
guntrue_1981,108,90,379,0.038991769547325104
guntrue_3457,132,109,561,0.0389908256880734
guntrue_3581,129,101,508,0.03898994550617853
guntrue_6222,85,67,222,0.038981562774363474
guntrue_283,77,71,213,0.03896103896103896
guntrue_8623,134,113,588,0.03883238673887201
guntrue_8171,132,111,567,0.0386977886977887
guntrue_7699,129,111,554,0.038689852643341016
guntrue_526,71,71,195,0.03868280103154136
guntrue_838,78,74,223,0.038634788634788635
guntrue_5087,129,119,593,0.03862940525047228
guntrue_6011,129,110,548,0.03861874559548978
guntrue_1477,103,82,326,0.03859815297182098
guntrue_8753,139,117,627,0.03855377236672201
guntrue_9203,135,114,593,0.03853151397011046
guntrue_3853,135,107,556,0.038490827275874
guntrue_566,77,71,210,0.03841229193341869
guntrue_4547,120,114,525,0.03837719298245614
guntrue_956,77,75,221,0.03826839826839827
guntrue_1493,104,82,326,0.03822701688555347
guntrue_1292,74,87,246,0.03821062441752097
guntrue_2104,71,87,236,0.038206248988181965
guntrue_8167,133,112,569,0.038198174006444686
guntrue_7541,143,112,611,0.03814935064935065
guntrue_3313,130,111,550,0.038115038115038115
guntrue_8377,138,110,576,0.037944664031620556
guntrue_4073,128,124,602,0.037928427419354836
guntrue_9091,124,124,583,0.037916233090530695
guntrue_4153,130,128,630,0.03786057692307692
guntrue_8017,133,105,528,0.03780880773361976
guntrue_8179,133,112,563,0.0377953813104189
guntrue_1769,117,96,424,0.03774928774928775
guntrue_8863,136,115,590,0.037723785166240406
guntrue_5449,137,111,573,0.03768001578220556
guntrue_1066,77,81,235,0.03767837101170435
guntrue_8209,137,109,562,0.03763476863322842
guntrue_8369,137,109,562,0.03763476863322842
guntrue_4201,132,128,630,0.037286931818181816
guntrue_2503,136,115,583,0.03727621483375959
guntrue_8287,134,113,564,0.0372473913617752
guntrue_1993,127,96,454,0.03723753280839895
guntrue_9199,136,115,582,0.03721227621483376
guntrue_4129,130,125,604,0.03716923076923077
guntrue_7603,131,114,555,0.03716351948573724
guntrue_1541,107,82,326,0.037155231365397764
guntrue_9227,126,125,585,0.037142857142857144
guntrue_8297,138,110,563,0.03708827404479578
guntrue_2699,124,136,624,0.03700189753320683
guntrue_5527,127,113,531,0.0370009058602188
guntrue_7723,132,114,554,0.03681552365762892
guntrue_4217,132,130,629,0.03665501165501166
guntrue_9281,145,123,650,0.03644519203812728
guntrue_3701,132,104,500,0.036421911421911424
guntrue_1801,119,98,424,0.0363574001028983
guntrue_4177,131,128,605,0.03608062977099236
guntrue_318,61,55,121,0.036065573770491806
guntrue_988,79,77,217,0.03567318757192175
guntrue_4297,135,131,630,0.035623409669211195
guntrue_5657,139,113,557,0.035461895969949704
guntrue_1132,75,91,242,0.03545787545787546
guntrue_1052,71,87,218,0.03529221304840537
guntrue_2161,129,82,372,0.03516732841747022
guntrue_4337,136,131,623,0.03496856757970364
guntrue_4241,133,130,604,0.034933487565066514
guntrue_8647,137,116,555,0.03492323181474956
guntrue_1589,110,85,326,0.03486631016042781
guntrue_1961,130,91,412,0.03482671174978867
guntrue_2012,118,83,341,0.03481723504186236
guntrue_4273,134,131,611,0.03480688162242224
guntrue_1004,80,78,217,0.03477564102564103
guntrue_1871,118,86,352,0.034686637761135196
guntrue_2071,108,96,358,0.03452932098765432
guntrue_4289,135,130,604,0.034415954415954415
guntrue_2008,80,85,234,0.03441176470588235
guntrue_2209,132,82,372,0.03436807095343681
guntrue_8641,141,113,541,0.03395468524446118
guntrue_5051,123,126,519,0.03348819202477739
guntrue_1621,112,87,326,0.03345648604269294
guntrue_2053,137,99,453,0.0333996903339969
guntrue_1637,113,88,326,0.03278358809332261
guntrue_8737,143,115,535,0.03253268470659775
guntrue_8087,127,122,502,0.03239963856976894
guntrue_2273,136,86,372,0.03180574555403557
guntrue_9257,148,120,557,0.03136261261261261
guntrue_9161,146,118,540,0.03134432319479916
guntrue_7446,94,76,222,0.031075027995520716
guntrue_9001,146,118,533,0.030938007894125843
guntrue_5244,77,64,151,0.030641233766233768
guntrue_2417,145,95,372,0.027005444646098005
guntrue_2438,113,113,295,0.023102827159526978
guntrue_3634,114,108,264,0.021442495126705652
This may not look very useful right off, because the top densities are all small-bounding-box guns with big spacedusty custom oscillators filling up a lot of the space.

However, I was able to pick out 3301 and and 8011 from the list as suspiciously high density, and indeed they were both over-densified. I think maybe if we just filter this list to remove all the small bounding boxes, the remaining ugly trash-littered guns will end up at the top.

-------------------------

Have I mentioned that large language models have recently gotten spookily competent at writing Conway's Life utility scripts? They still hallucinate wildly if you ask direct questions about patterns, or ask them to generate RLE directly to answer questions.

But they know how to write Golly Python and Golly Lua scripts, with just the occasional small hiccup about things like how to call g.store() -- they used it the way that it probably _should_ work (direct conversion of a selection to an RLE string) but it doesn't actually work that way.

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