Construction Challenges and Ideas
- LuveelVoom
- Posts: 463
- Joined: April 27th, 2022, 7:59 pm
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Do you mean a shuttle where the active region is self-constructing?
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My rules: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6843
YBOCAD: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7036
Discord user: LuveelVoom
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
So, a self-constructing pattern similar to an engineered RRO, except that the transformation is a mirror reflection instead of a 90- or 180-degree rotation?
I don't think an example of a "reflectorless mirror-reflecting oscillator" (RMRO?) (EDIT: wait, no, they've been called "reflectorless flipping oscillators" probably more than anything else) has been built yet, but the design would be very similar to existing B3/S23 RROs and/or self-synthesizing spaceships.
If someone wants to build one, I can help.
- CARuler
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: July 30th, 2024, 5:38 pm
- Location: A rule-verse in floor rule-verse of the CGOL skyscraper
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Create a walrus reflector
This can be done using the walrus->Glider
This can be done using the walrus->Glider
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Only if we also had a glider->walrus converter ... which would be straightforward to build, if only we had a glider synthesis recipe for walruses.
Is someone saving up a walrus recipe for April Fools' Day, or something like that?
- CARuler
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: July 30th, 2024, 5:38 pm
- Location: A rule-verse in floor rule-verse of the CGOL skyscraper
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
the converter (W->G) is on the wiki page
Walrus
Walrus
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vist my rules here
also likes weird growth patterns in CA
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
But ... to get a reflector, we need to start with a walrus and end with a walrus, right?
Minor side note: "W" tends to stand for "wing" and not "walrus" in conduit discussions.
This is basically because we don't know how to convert a signal back into a walrus once it turns into a glider (or anything else).
- confocaloid
- Posts: 6697
- Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm
- Location: learn to protect yourself against stray gliders and sparks and self-destruct mechanisms
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
For a spaceship reflector that reflects a walrus, you would need either a direct reflection reaction, or two spaceship converters (a walrus-to-glider and a glider-to-walrus), or maybe some other unlikely pair of converters (from walrus to "something" and from that "something" to walrus) where "something" is a moving object that has no known way of converting to/from the glider.
As a possible first step, I think it would be interesting to see a glider-to-walrus spaceship converter in StateInvestigator (which is no longer CGoL, but it's based on CGoL). If anyone finds a device heavily relying on higher-numbered cellstates that would be interesting, but probably would be hard ot impossible to make it work in plain CGoL. The fewer cells with cellstates other than 0 or 1 and the more parts of reactions "looking like CGoL syntheses", the more likely it would be that it will be possible to make it work in plain CGoL with some efforts.
(IMO, any glider-to-walrus spaceship converter in StateInvestigator would be much more 'interesting', compared to the many examples of easily-constructed oscillators relying on higher-numbered cellstates.)
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
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Unlikely events happen.
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Jormungant
- Posts: 824
- Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
I have this "forcefield" Challenge. If completed, it would be It is a near-miss solution to the problem proposed in 1992 by Allan Wechsler:
15. Does there exist a finite stable pattern which can defend itself
against any single glider?
This pattern, if completed, would need to use stable circuitry acknowledge that the wall was destroyed, and proceed to clean and rebuilt the wall. The idea is to be able to defend from gilders coming from two directions, but a limited range that can be arbitrarily large by design. Of course, there exist already a solution to this, which involves 2 sets of highway robbers arrays placed upstream so all possible gliders are captured in the desired range; however, the size array is much bigger in the direction orthogonal to the captured glider, and that size is linear in the range of captured gliders too. So now, the real challenge is to further constraint the stable circuitry to be bounded within the "shadow" of the wall, aka, the intersection of the glider lanes coming from the 2 direction that needs to be filtered. It probably cannot be fully encapsulated in that area, so a "finite" number of cell should be allowed outside (as in, if the range of glider to capture double, the number of active cells outside the shadow is the same). If one has this working, assembling 4 units that each manages 1 wall from a square, we then get a stable pattern that can defend itself from any glider, except at its corners.
Note that the fuse burn period is 6, so that if the number of 3-mer is odd, the current wall example is guarantied to produce a glider on 1 side exactly, though one could work with 2 boats the same side too (there is another placement for a boat that emits a glider, but it is far messier), just that symmetric solution looks nicer (personal opinion I guess).
15. Does there exist a finite stable pattern which can defend itself
against any single glider?
Code: Select all
x = 429, y = 547, rule = LifeHistory
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159BD$7.158BD$7.157BD$7.156BD$7.155BD$7.154BD$7.153BD$7.152BD$7.151BD
$7.150BD$7.149BD$7.148BD!
Note that the fuse burn period is 6, so that if the number of 3-mer is odd, the current wall example is guarantied to produce a glider on 1 side exactly, though one could work with 2 boats the same side too (there is another placement for a boat that emits a glider, but it is far messier), just that symmetric solution looks nicer (personal opinion I guess).
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Two related ideas:
A construction like a line crosser, but for the coiled snake wick.
A construction that when activated, detects if there is a line wick and sends a signal if so.
A construction like a line crosser, but for the coiled snake wick.
A construction that when activated, detects if there is a line wick and sends a signal if so.
Can't trust someone who misspells typset as typeset.
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Oppose KOSA now, save the internet!
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- confocaloid
- Posts: 6697
- Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm
- Location: learn to protect yourself against stray gliders and sparks and self-destruct mechanisms
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Related links:
viewtopic.php?p=179515#p179515 One-sided way to "cut" the coiled snake wick, 6 gliders
viewtopic.php?p=179521#p179521 ..., 5 gliders
As far as I know, "repairing the damage" remains an open problem. I did not seriously attempt any searches for this problem. It may be solvable, there are now software tools/scripts that could help (e.g. LLS and related scripts used in various glider synthesis efforts).
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
This one we've got a start on, anyway. Have a look at the line crosser article. There are a couple of eaters in the pattern that are never used if the line wick is present -- but if it's absent, they suppress a pair of honeyfarm explosions.
One way or another, we could add circuitry to convert one of those pre-honeyfarms into a signal heading back away from the line -- or see the "moderately edgy toad" option from 2018. And we could adjust the testing reaction so that a glider never passes through the gap, if the line is there and the gap gets created:
Code: Select all
x = 144, y = 65, rule = B3/S23
2o78bo$obo78bo$3bo78bo$4bo78bo$5bo78bo$6bo78bo$7bo78bo$8bo78bo$9bo78b
o$10bo78bo$11bo78bo$5bo6bo71bo6bo$6bo6bo71bo6bo$4b3o7bo68b3o7bo$15bo78b
o$12bo3bo74bo3bo$13bo3bo74bo3bo$6bo4b3o4bo66bo4b3o4bo$7b2o10bo66b2o10b
o$6b2o12bo64b2o12bo$21bo78bo$22bo78bo$23bo78bo$24bo78bo$25bo78bo$26bo
78bo$27bo78bo$28bo78bo$29bo78bo$30bo78bo$7b2o22bo54b2o$6bobo16bo6bo52b
obo16bo6bo$6bo19bo6bo51bo19bo6bo$5b2o17b3o7bo49b2o17b3o7bo$35bo78bo$30b
2o4bo72b2o4bo$30bobo4bo71bobo4bo$30bo7bo70bo7bo$39bo78bo$40bo78bo$41b
o78bo$42bo78bo$9b2o32bo44b2o32bo$10b2o32bo44b2o32bo$9bo35bo42bo35bo$46b
o78bo$16b2o29bo47b2o29bo$15bobo30bo45bobo30bo$17bo31bo46bo31bo$45b2o3b
o73b2o3bo$44b2o5bo71b2o5bo$19b2o25bo5bo45b2o25bo5bo$18bobo32bo43bobo32b
o$20bo33bo44bo33bo$31b2o10b2o10bo54b2o10b2o10bo$32bo10bobo10bo54bo10b
obo10bo$29b3o11bo13bo50b3o11bo13bo$29bo28bo49bo28bo$59bo78bo$52b2o6bo
70b2o6bo$51b2o8bo68b2o8bo$53bo8bo69bo8bo$63bo78bo$64bo78bo$63b2o!So we could build a universal-computer-based "line wick finder" that could feel its way through any chosen distance D, one half-diagonal at a time, cut its way through however many line wicks it finds, copy itself to the other side, and repair the wicks behind itself -- as long as it had enough room to work, and didn't encounter line wicks 3hd or 4hd apart.
There's a similar mechanism available for barge wick detection, I believe. Possibly reading through that thread might find some alternate mechanisms that allow closer-packed line wicks -- I wouldn't be surprised if the question came up at some point, but I don't remember the specifics.
- CARuler
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
i've got a challengea: create a spaceship made of copperheads/fireships that slowly destroys and rebuilds itself, making it move at a different speed and/or slope
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- confocaloid
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Such a spaceship likely exists somewhere in the set of all possible finite-population patterns, but also likely any example is going to be insufficiently finite to actually look at it and see how it moves and how parts move.
Find a way to construct a glider by colliding copperheads. Then find an arrangement of 15 gliders that eventually collide to make universal construction machinery that eventually reconstructs nothing but an arrangement of copperheads that eventually collide to recreate the same 15-glider arrangement. Sounds simple enough, isn't it?
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
A metacell that emulates LifeHistory or at least some limited version of it.
Can't trust someone who misspells typset as typeset.
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Contribute to CheckerLife!
Oppose KOSA now, save the internet!
The Sandboxer Sandbox (Discord server)
RIP Unname New Web
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
There actually is one multistate metacell already! See GUYUT6J's "fangtian2" metacell patterns in recent versions of Golly. I don't think those got nearly enough attention in LifeWiki Current News, when they came out.
- CARuler
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Have you had a look at the "c/10 constructions" thread? we don't need to collide copperheadsconfocaloid wrote: ↑March 27th, 2025, 4:39 am
Find a way to construct a glider by colliding copperheads. Then find an arrangement of 15 gliders that eventually collide to make universal construction machinery that eventually reconstructs nothing but an arrangement of copperheads that eventually collide to recreate the same 15-glider arrangement. Sounds simple enough, isn't it?
likes interesting rules
vist my rules here
also likes weird growth patterns in CA
hyperbolic CA!!!
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vist my rules here
also likes weird growth patterns in CA
hyperbolic CA!!!
ADHD user
mostly inactive
Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
You'd need to collide copperheads to reduce the problem to the existing case that we know how to solve (via RCT).
Luckily we have this thread, so we already know how to construct a glider using a collision between just two copperheads.
- CARuler
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Just add Herschelsdvgrn wrote: ↑March 27th, 2025, 9:59 amYou'd need to collide copperheads to reduce the problem to the existing case that we know how to solve (via RCT).
Luckily we have this thread, so we already know how to construct a glider using a collision between just two copperheads.
Last edited by CARuler on March 27th, 2025, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
likes interesting rules
vist my rules here
also likes weird growth patterns in CA
hyperbolic CA!!!
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vist my rules here
also likes weird growth patterns in CA
hyperbolic CA!!!
ADHD user
mostly inactive
- LuveelVoom
- Posts: 463
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
OCA primer (WIP): User:LuveelVoom/A_Primer_On_OCA
My rules: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6843
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My rules: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6843
YBOCAD: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7036
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- confocaloid
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
I'd venture a guess that it was meant to be "Herschels" but something went wrong. However, that doesn't explain much (why/how would one add Herschels and how that would help? Missing details, there may be some ways to do without making gliders by colliding copperheads, but that remains to be explained).
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
- yyh_baboon
- Posts: 377
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23
3o8b2o$obo8bo$obo!Do anyone have a P38 edge block factory?
Currently hand-searching spaceships.
Have a look at my spaceship hub viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7084 if you’re interested ÔvÔ
Currently hand-searching spaceships.
Have a look at my spaceship hub viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7084 if you’re interested ÔvÔ
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-cnqy4ej7c/S2-ci3-ak4ceinrz5acek6c
3o$o2bo$ob2o!
- b-engine
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Not when you cannot get the pi back in the exact position or just a single glider.yyh_baboon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2025, 3:13 amIn this reaction if the pre-block is an integral, an integral and 3 blinkers would appear with dx=dy=11. Can this be made into a spaceship?Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23 3o8b2o$obo8bo$obo!
EDIT: unless you could clear the ashes:
Code: Select all
x = 39, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
23b3o8b2o$23bobo8bobo$23bobo10bo$36bobo$3o8b2o24b2o$obo8bobo$obo10bo$
13bobo$14b2o!
Try INT Minesweeper
- yyh_baboon
- Posts: 377
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23
3o8b2o$obo8bobo$obo9bo!Do anyone have a P38 edge block factory?
Currently hand-searching spaceships.
Have a look at my spaceship hub viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7084 if you’re interested ÔvÔ
Currently hand-searching spaceships.
Have a look at my spaceship hub viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7084 if you’re interested ÔvÔ
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-cnqy4ej7c/S2-ci3-ak4ceinrz5acek6c
3o$o2bo$ob2o!
- confocaloid
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
One plausible way to "use" these reactions would be to move into Other Cellular Automata, in the event that someone discovers a way to tweak the rules in such a way that the integral-moving / boat-moving reaction is preserved "essentially unchanged" but then the pi-heptomino reappears by itself in the correct location, which would result in an "alien" puffer or an "alien" spaceship moving diagonally at 11c/p (for some period p).
It is plausible that there is some two-state isotropic CA implementable in Golly through a weighted neighbourhood where the above happens, but it might be a challenge to find an actual example.
It is plausible that there is some two-state isotropic CA implementable in Golly through a weighted neighbourhood where the above happens, but it might be a challenge to find an actual example.
yyh_baboon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2025, 3:13 amIn this reaction if the pre-block is an integral, an integral and 3 blinkers would appear with dx=dy=11. Can this be made into a spaceship?Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23 3o8b2o$obo8bo$obo!
yyh_baboon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2025, 8:07 amA boat can also be used in the reaction and would also appear with dx=dy=11,along with 2 blinkers and 1 glider. Maybe this will be better?Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23 3o8b2o$obo8bobo$obo9bo!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.
- b-engine
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Re: Construction Challenges and Ideas
I could get rid of the center trash, but I couldn't find a way to remove blinkers from the sides:yyh_baboon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2025, 8:07 amA boat can also be used in the reaction and would also appear with dx=dy=11,along with 2 blinkers and 1 glider. Maybe this will be better?Code: Select all
x=0, y=0, rule=B3/S23 3o8b2o$obo8bobo$obo9bo!
Code: Select all
x = 42, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
3o8b2o15b3o8b2o$obo8bobo14bobo8bobo$obo9bo15bobo9bo!
Try INT Minesweeper