Thread for basic questions

[dvgrn]

No, it still doesn't explain what the . in ./zfind is

A period in that context just means "look in the current directory". Two periods would mean "look in the next directory above the current directory". (Unfortunately, three periods do not mean "look in the next directory above that"... that would make too much sense.)

This is one of many command-line conventions not specific to zfind -- just something to get used to, as part of learning how to do command-line operations in general.

[azulavoir]

No, it still doesn't explain what the . in ./zfind is

For additional information, consult:
https://superuser.com/questions/37449/w ... -directory

[amling]

For which oscillator periods do we actually know the smallest oscillator by population? E.g. caterer page says "is the smallest period 3 oscillator [in terms of population]", but is that smallest known period 3 oscillator or somehow actually proven smallest period 3 oscillator? Mold page similarly does not include "known" but above that pseudo-barberpole, unix, and burloaferimeter all say "known".

I was considering trying to do some flavor of LLSSS min pop searches for these things but it's going to be an even bigger performance mess than it is for spaceships and so I wanted to know what my targets would even be.

[Sokwe]

For which oscillator periods do we actually know the smallest oscillator by population?

All of the results I know about were compiled from various sources by Mark Niemiec here with at least these two corrections:

• I don't think all 10-bit patterns have been tested as claimed in the table (it's difficult because there are so many ways for R-pentominoes to interact from a distance via their output gliders). I believe all objects up to 9 bits were enumerated by Nick Gotts in the work detailed here. Edit (Feb 3, 2025): except 9-bit objects whose period is a factor of 12. Of those, p1, p2, p3, and p4 objects have been enumerated beyond 9 bits, but 9-bit p6 and p12 objects have not been enumerated.
• The page erroneously claims there are three 25-cell period-3 ships when there are actually only two.

[hotcrystal0]

New conjecture:
There exists only one unique rumbling river rotator and excluding longer wicks which it can be derived from it.

How are rumbling rivers defined again?

Edit: nevermind, I misread it as “rotor”

[TYCF]

What would this type of pattern be called?

...

Code: Select all

x = 117, y = 111, rule = B3/S23:T117,112
117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o
2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$75o2b40o$74b2o$74o3b
40o$69bo2bo$68o3bo7b38o$38bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$36o32bo
3b5o2b38o$36bo39b2o$36o33bo3b4o2b38o$70bo3bo$36o35bo7b38o$36bo$36o43b
38o2$36o43b38o$36bo$36o43b38o2$36o43b38o$36bo$36o43b38o2$36o20bobo18b
40o$36bo19bobob2o2b2obobo$36o25b2o3bo2bobobob42o$38bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2b
obob2o2b2obo5bo$57obo10bobo5b40o$70bo2bo$59o3b2o3b3obobob42o$59b2o3b2o
$60o2b3o2b50o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$
117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o2$117o!

...

[HerscheltheHerschel]

Is there any dependent conduit which uses the Fx158 Herschel predecessor?

[dvgrn]

Is there any dependent conduit which uses the Fx158 Herschel predecessor?

Not that I can remember, and I think I would remember.

The Fx158 Herschel predecessor is a really unusual predecessor, and the output isn't particularly accessible due to the big sparky mess on one side of the output:

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 48, rule = LifeHistory
6.5D9.D3.5D2.3D$6.D12.2D3.D5.D3.D$6.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D3.D$6.3D4.D.D4.D
4.3D3.3D$6.D7.D5.D7.D.D3.D$6.D6.D.D4.D3.D3.D.D3.D$6.D5.D3.D2.3D3.3D3.
3D9$19.2A$19.2A12.A$31.3A$19.4A7.A$16.A.A4.A6.2A$14.3A.2A2.2A$13.A4.B
8.2A$10.A2.4AB2AB5.ABA$10.3A3.A.2AB.2B.3BA$13.A4.10B$12.2AB4.9B2.A3.
2A$12.5B.10B2ABA5BA$14.14B2ABA6BA$12.17BA9BA$12.20B4ABABA$11.21BAB3AB
A$11.27B$12.21B2A2B.D$11.20B2.3A3D$9.20B4.3AD.D$7.19B10.D$7.19B$6.10B
.9B$7.9B2.7B$6.10B3.5B$5.10B5.4B$4.4B10.4B.B2A$4.3B11.2A3.BA.A$2.4B
13.A6.A$2.2A12.3A7.2A$3.A12.A$3A$A!
#C [[ HEIGHT 600 ZOOM 12 THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 3 ]]

That said, it's always possible that something like a CatForce run would turn up a dependent conduit specific to Fx158. It wouldn't be too useful, though, since it would need a whole Fx158 in front of it every time it was used.

[confocaloid]

Is there any dependent conduit which uses the Fx158 Herschel predecessor?

There might be (but I don't remember any example) a Herschel-to-glider converter that can be appended and does not release the first natural glider of the input.

If you're willing to accept eaters as conduits, then placing a single block to eat the Herschel still works, and the FNG is not created:

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
9bo4b2o$8bobo2bobo7b2o$7bo2b4o9bo$7bobo4bo6bobo$5b3ob2o2b2o6b2o$4bo$bo
2b4ob2o$b3o3bob2o$4bo$3b2o7$29bo$27b3o3b2o$27bo5b2o$27bo$o$obo$3o$2bo
2$15b2o$9b2o4bobo$10bo6bo$7b3o7b2o$7bo!

[HerscheltheHerschel]

Is there a B-heptomino eater that doesn't destroy an eater 2 with it's spark?
I'm working on a Herschel conduit and I need the bottom B-heptomino to be deleted:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 38, rule = LifeSuper
25.2E$25.2E8.A$34.A.A$16.2A.A7.D6.A.A$16.A.2A6.3D4.2A.3A$25.2D.D10.A$
33.2A.3A$33.2A.A$14.2A$6.A7.2A$6.3A$9.A31.2A$8.2A31.A$39.A.A$2A37.2A$
.A$.A.A32.2A$2.2A31.A2.A$25.3D8.2A$27.D$25.3D8.2A$35.A2.A$36.2A2$2.A
36.2A$2.A.A34.A.A$2.3A36.A$4.A36.2A2$14.2A$14.2A2.2A$18.A.A12.2A.A$
20.A12.2A.3A$20.2A3.2D.D10.A$26.3D4.2A.3A$27.D6.A.A$34.A.A$35.A!

[hotdogPi]

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
35bo$34bobo$16b2obo14bobo$16bob2o13b2ob3o$39bo$33b2ob3o$33b2obo$14b2o$
6bo7b2o$6b3o$9bo31b2o$8b2o31bo$39bobo$2o37b2o$bo$bobo32b2o$2b2o31bo2bo
$36b2o2$36b2o$35bo2bo$36b2o2$2bo36b2o$2bobo34bobo$2b3o36bo$4bo36b2o2$
14b2o$14b2o2b2o$18bobo12b2obo$20bo12b2ob3o$20b2o17bo$33b2ob3o$27b2o5bo
bo$27b2o5bobo$35bo!

except it still leaves two blocks that aren't cleaned up even after your request...

[confocaloid]

Is there a B-heptomino eater that doesn't destroy an eater 2 with it's spark?
I'm working on a Herschel conduit and I need the bottom B-heptomino to be deleted:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 38, rule = LifeSuper
25.2E$25.2E8.A$34.A.A$16.2A.A7.D6.A.A$16.A.2A6.3D4.2A.3A$25.2D.D10.A$
33.2A.3A$33.2A.A$14.2A$6.A7.2A$6.3A$9.A31.2A$8.2A31.A$39.A.A$2A37.2A$
.A$.A.A32.2A$2.2A31.A2.A$25.3D8.2A$27.D$25.3D8.2A$35.A2.A$36.2A2$2.A
36.2A$2.A.A34.A.A$2.3A36.A$4.A36.2A2$14.2A$14.2A2.2A$18.A.A12.2A.A$
20.A12.2A.3A$20.2A3.2D.D10.A$26.3D4.2A.3A$27.D6.A.A$34.A.A$35.A!

These posts may be relevant:

Is there anything that can be done about the pair of blocks? Each side of the reaction allows for a pi-to-B, so if one of the sides be coaxed into eliminating those blocks, it'd be a pi-to-B. And it does connect to conduit 1.

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 56, rule = LifeHistory
10.3D$11.D$9.3D16$9.2E$9.2E8.A$18.A.A$3.A7.D6.A.A$.3A6.3D4.2A.3A$A8.
2DBDB4.B4.A$2A6.6B3.2AB3A$9.6B2.2A.A$8.11B$8.9B$9.9B$10.8B7.2A$8.11B
6.A$8.11B3.BA.A$7.10B3.3B2A$6.2D9B.6B$6.2D12B2AB$7.12BA2BA$9.3C8B2A$
10.BC7B$9.3C8B2A$7.12BA2BA$6.2D12B2AB$6.2D9B.6B$7.10B3.3B2A$8.11B3.BA
.A$8.11B6.A$10.8B7.2A$9.9B$8.9B$8.11B$9.6B2.2A.A$8.6B3.2AB3A$9.2DBDB
4.B4.A$10.3D4.2A.3A$11.D6.A.A$18.A.A$19.A!

This is perfect for a Hf factory though, you don’t even need to get rid of those blocks:

Code: Select all

 x = 52, y = 56, rule = LifeHistory
35.3D$36.D$34.3D16$34.2E$34.2E8.A$43.A.A$25.2A.A7.D6.A.A$25.A.2A6.3D4.
2A.3A$34.2DBDB4.B4.A$33.6B3.2AB3A$4.A29.6B2.2A.A$4.3A26.11B$7.A25.9B$
6.2A26.9B$35.8B7.2A$33.11B6.A$2A31.11B3.BA.A$.A6.3C21.10B3.3B2A$.A.A5.
C21.2E9B.6B$2.2A3.3C21.2E12B2AB$32.12BA2BA$16.2D16.11B2A$15.D2.D16.9B
$16.2D16.11B2A$32.12BA2BA$31.2E12B2AB$31.2E9B.6B$32.10B3.3B2A$33.11B3.
BA.A$33.11B6.A$35.8B7.2A$34.9B$33.9B$33.11B$34.6B2.2A.A$33.6B3.2AB3A$
34.2DBDB4.B4.A$35.3D4.2A.3A$36.D6.A.A$43.A.A$44.A!

The most obvious way to get rid of the beehive while still having good clearance would be to use a Fx119 following the BFx59H and a snark.

The most obvious way to get rid of the beehive while still having good clearance would be to use a Fx119 following the BFx59H and a snark.

Proof of concept H/G factory

Code: Select all

x = 173, y = 87, rule = B3/S23
35b2o$35bobo$37bo4b2o$33b4ob2o2bo2bo$33bo2bobobobob2o$36bobobobo$37b2o
bobo$41bo88b2o$111b2obob2o12b2o$27b2o81bo2b2obo2bob2obo$28bo7b2o71bobo
4bob2obob2o$28bobo5b2o72bob5o$29b2o64bo9bo6bo4bob2o$95b3o5b3o5bo3bobob
2o$83b2o13bo3bo7bo3bobo$83bo13b2o3b2o6b2o3bo$61bo22bo$61b3o19b2o$64bo$
39b2o22b2o$39bo15b2o65b2o$40b3o13bo24b3o38b2o$42bo13bobo22bo2bo52b2o$
57b2o18bo6b2o50bo2bo$76b3o2bob2o52b2obo$75b2ob3o2b2o55bo$76bob5o57b2o$
77b5o43b2o$78b3o45bo$123b3o$111b2o10bo$91bo6b2o11bobo$89b3o6b2o13bo$
88bo24b2o15bo$88b2o40b3o$53bo27bo51bo$42bo10b3o23b3o50bobo$40b3o13bo
21bo54bo$39bo15b2o21b2o$39b2o84b2o17b3o$100b2o24bo7b2o8bo$51b2o29b2o
17bo13b2o6b3o8b2o9bo16b2o$51bo31bo17bobo11b2o6bo38b2o$52bo29bo19b2o$
51b2o29b2o3$63b2o5b2o$63b2o5b2o$44bo45bo42b2o$34b3o7bo3bobo33bobo3bo7b
3o32b2o$32b2ob4o10bo35bo10b4ob2o$32bo2b2o11bo37bo11b2o2bo$32b3o65b3o$
37bobo11b2o29b2o11bobo2$130b2o37b2o$130bo20b2o16bobo$52bob2o23b2obo28b
2o3b2o13bo20bo18bo$50b3ob2o23b2ob3o27bo3bo13b2o17b3o13b2o4b2o$49bo15bo
3bo15bo23b3o5b3o29bo15bo$50b3ob2o8bobobobo8b2ob3o24bo9bo46b3o$52bobo9b
obobobo9bobo85bo$52bobo10bo3bo10bobo$53bo7b2o9b2o7bo$22b2o38bo9bo$22b
2o3b2o30b3o11b3o$27b2o30bo15bo2$bo$obo25b2o$obo19b2o4bo$bo20b2o5b3o$
31bo11$58bo$59bo5b2ob2o$57b3o5b2ob2o!
#C [[ MAXGRIDSIZE 9 THEME LifeHistory ]]

[HerscheltheHerschel]

How do I apgluxe a rule which isn't B3S23 and a symmetry which isn't C1?

[confocaloid]

How do I apgluxe a rule which isn't B3S23 and a symmetry which isn't C1?

https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera
Tutorials/Contributing_to_Catagolue#Soup-searching_using_apgluxe_5.x

You can also pass rulestring and symmetry options; if these do not match those currently compiled into the current executable, the recompilation script will be invoked automatically.

Code: Select all

$ ./apgluxe -k my_payosha256_key --rule b38s23 --symmetry C1

[HerscheltheHerschel]

How do I apgluxe a rule which isn't B3S23 and a symmetry which isn't C1?

https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera
Tutorials/Contributing_to_Catagolue#Soup-searching_using_apgluxe_5.x

You can also pass rulestring and symmetry options; if these do not match those currently compiled into the current executable, the recompilation script will be invoked automatically.

Code: Select all

$ ./apgluxe -k my_payosha256_key --rule b38s23 --symmetry C1

How do I apgluxe Factorio? What rulestring should I use?

[confocaloid]

How do I apgluxe Factorio? What rulestring should I use?

Likely a separate rule file viewtopic.php?p=168690#p168690

[HerscheltheHerschel]

How do I apgluxe Factorio? What rulestring should I use?

Likely a separate rule file viewtopic.php?p=168690#p168690

I tried B35/S23 as a test. It didn't work:

"apgluxe v5.41-ll2.5.7: Rule b3s23 does not match desired rule b35s23."

[confocaloid]

Try this

Code: Select all

./recompile.sh --rule b35s23 --symmetry D2_x
./apgluxe

[HerscheltheHerschel]

Try this

Code: Select all

./recompile.sh --rule b35s23 --symmetry D2_x
./apgluxe

I use Windows.

[confocaloid]

Read through Tutorials/Contributing_to_Catagolue#Soup-searching_using_apgluxe_5.x and https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera and see if it makes sense. Unfortunately I cannot help much with details, as none of my devices run Windows.

Try this

Code: Select all

./recompile.sh --rule b35s23 --symmetry D2_x
./apgluxe

I use Windows.

[azulavoir]

I use Windows.

That doesn't change anything. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install

[HerscheltheHerschel]

How do I do component-mining without the still life I'm trying to component-mine being absolutely destroyed?
In this case, I'm trying to component-mine Cthulhu.

[dvgrn]

How do I do component-mining without the still life I'm trying to component-mine being absolutely destroyed?
In this case, I'm trying to component-mine Cthulhu.

That might not be a basic question -- or at least, not a question with a basic answer -- but definitely it's an interesting question!

It's also a little bit vague: Cthulhu is a still life, and components are reactions that turn one thing into another. In Cthulhu itself there aren't any reactions that could be mined.

So I'm thinking you mean either "try to mine reactions found [somewhere] that turn other things into Cthulhu", or possibly "try to mine reactions found [somewhere] that turn Cthulhu into something else". The first option is easier -- you can go and look on Catagolue for soups that created Cthulhu, and see if there's anything out there that's interestingly different from the known component, which is

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
13bo$11b2o$6bobo3b2o4b2o$7b2o8bo2bo$7bo10b2o2$bo16b2o$2bo10b2o2bo2bo$
3o9bobo3b2o$12b2o$18b2o$4b3o10bo2bo$6bo11b2o$5bo!

Unfortunately there's still only one soup recorded on Catagolue for Cthulhu, which amounts to

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
17b2o$16bo2bo$3o14b2o2$6bo10b2o$6bo3b3o3bo2bo$6bo10b2o2$17b2o$16bo2bo$
17b2o$4b3o$5bo$5b3o!

-- but that's already been reduced to the glider-synthesis form above. So that's pretty much a dead end for the moment.

The second option is more complicated. As far as I can think right now, it probably requires running a lot of search code, and probably writing some scripts of your own -- a customized version of spark_search, for example. I'm thinking you probably don't need me to go on for lots of paragraphs about that option, but let me know if you're interested.

[HerscheltheHerschel]

That might not be a basic question -- or at least, not a question with a basic answer -- but definitely it's an interesting question!

Which still life is the most friendly for component-mining beginners? (I typically place random soups near a random still life to do component-mining)

[dvgrn]

Which still life is the most friendly for component-mining beginners? (I typically place random soups near a random still life to do component-mining)

Please be more careful about not quoting the entire long post you're answering. I've edited the one above. If you don't want to edit a post down to the part you're responding to, please consider simply hitting "Reply" instead of quoting. Moderators keep getting post reports about this. It will save us quite a bit of time if you can use these forums more according to the rules -- see rule 3d and rule 4.

If you're placing random soups one at a time, by hand, there really isn't a "most friendly" still life. The more complex a still life is, in general, the more likely it is that you'll never see anything but complete destruction -- if you run things one at a time. Components would be more likely to be interesting if you _could_ find them, maybe, but you could conceivably use all of the hours in your entire lifetime before you manually find the first new component that successfully modifies Cthulhu. Somebody running a search script will very likely find all the new stuff before you can get to it.

To do that kind of component mining you're going to have to learn how to run -- and preferably modify -- various kinds of search scripts.